Classical Learning Resource Center (CLRC) - Comp & Lit Classes Question

[bibsandmegs]

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with any of these classes?  Specifically, how does your DC handle the two hour class period?  That really seems like a long time to me.  We've been using Potter's School for English, and even that hour and a half was a stretch for my kids.

 

I really like the sounds of the class and the literature they read, but it's pricey and long.

 

Thank you so much for your feedback!!  I really appreciate it!!

[GeorgiaH]

My son took the Intro to Literature and Composition (or was it Intro to Composition and Literature?) about one year ago. We thought the two hours was too long for him. At that time the first hour was spent discussing the chapters of the books that had been the required reading for the week. He enjoyed this hour. The second hour dealt with sections of Strunk and White, a literary term, and the composition assignment with instructions. The second hour dragged on and on. It seemed like the material could have been discussed in 10-15 minutes, at most. 

 

The literature selections were excellent. I wish there had been an option to take just the first hour at a reduced price since we also felt the class was pricey and long. We did not sign up for the second semester. 

 

 

[madteaparty]

My son is in Great Books I, and will be in GB II next fall. (for a semester but only because we travel the second semester)--So I am not sure you are asking about these classes, but here goes my view anyway ;)

Of all the ways to characterize this class, "pricey" would not be the term. The amount of work on behalf of the teacher, and the amazing amount of feedbck given is astonishing, and I frankly feel we are commiting highway robbery and the class ismispriced somehow. For my son's last essay (on what constitutes "proof" in Herodotus) the teacher provided a specific outline. Then, she re-wrote my son's specific paper with redline comments (insert supporting quote here, you need conclusion there, etc etc). I don't know of any other online class that provides that level of detailed feedback.

The reading is massive, and the class is intense, but we love it. The lectures are long,this is true,and he is fairly wiped when he comes out, but there's always some interesting tidbit that he comes to me with after the class.

 

Edited because I seem to have a non-functioning spacebar that makes me sound drunk.

Edited February 24, 2017 by madteaparty

[historymatters]

Edited because I seem to have a non-functioning spacebar that makes me sound drunk.

Well, that fits with your username: madteaparty! 😉 What are you puttin' in that tea? 😃

[Roadrunner]

They give a five minute break. My DS doesn't seem to have an issue with length and absolutely adores the class (Intro to Lit) and he is younger than intended age, so it's not his maturity. We feel it's worth every penny and plan on continuing next year. The detailed feedback on essays is invaluable to us. I am also glad they are covering literary devices since I have neither expertise not desire to do it myself.

[SunshineMom]

My dd has taken several CLRC literature and composition classes.  Yes, the two hour classes can drag on a bit however the class discussions and instruction are worth it.  The book selections have been challenging and engaging.  I would recommend the literature and composition classes to strong readers.  The classes generally read selected books within two to three weeks.  In addition to the readings, students write summaries for each chapter along with completing weekly steps towards additional essays.  My dd has been independently taking these courses, I can't keep up with all her reading assignments.  

[bibsandmegs]

They give a five minute break. My DS doesn't seem to have an issue with length and absolutely adores the class (Intro to Lit) and he is younger than intended age, so it's not his maturity. We feel it's worth every penny and plan on continuing next year. The detailed feedback on essays is invaluable to us. I am also glad they are covering literary devices since I have neither expertise not desire to do it myself.

Thank you for your feedback. May I ask how old your DC was when they took this class? I only ask because mine will be 12 so it would be a good gauge for me. Also, do you feel like your DC's writing improved through the class? Finally, is there an emphasis on writing or literature or is it fairly even?

 

Thank you again!

[bibsandmegs]

Thank you everyone for the detailed information! This is really helpful!

[SunshineMom]

My dd was in 6th grade when she took Introduction to Literature and Composition.

 

[Roadrunner]

Thank you for your feedback. May I ask how old your DC was when they took this class? I only ask because mine will be 12 so it would be a good gauge for me. Also, do you feel like your DC's writing improved through the class? Finally, is there an emphasis on writing or literature or is it fairly even?

 

Thank you again!

He was 11 and turned 12 half way. He is a natural writer and has no problem with creative assignments, but the essays are tougher. The first one isn't since it's about Narnia, but Chosen is a great book and requires a different level of thinking. He also chose a difficult topic, which made the process harder. The third issay is a comparative one, and I am guessing it will be equally difficult. I think the question to ask is she mature enough for the reading selection. If you think your child is ready for reading, the writing will not be as big of an issue, since they take their time on sssy assignments.

I think DS learned how to write essays in this class. He is also taking WWS2 with WTMA and learns a ton in that class as well, but Assignments are very different.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Roadrunner

[SunshineMom]

My dd also learned to write an essay in the introduction class.  I don't know that she is a natural writer however she did do well in the class.  The book selections along with the discussions are what my dd most enjoys from CLRC.  The workload ramps up more in the high school classes.

[poetic license]

Do the Literature classes (or the Elem. Language arts) from CLRC teach from a Christian POV or are they acceptable for other faiths/secular homeschoolers? I'm thinking about putting my daughter in the Elementary LA class.

[Roadrunner]

Do the Literature classes (or the Elem. Language arts) from CLRC teach from a Christian POV or are they acceptable for other faiths/secular homeschoolers? I'm thinking about putting my daughter in the Elementary LA class.

I can't comment on Elementary series specifically, but in our experience the classes are secular. Children taking classes come predominantly from Christian families, so they often will bring that in their own writing and discussion. The teaching isn't religious though.

[madteaparty]

Do the Literature classes (or the Elem. Language arts) from CLRC teach from a Christian POV or are they acceptable for other faiths/secular homeschoolers? I'm thinking about putting my daughter in the Elementary LA class.

The Great Books I class is secular and taught that way. But every last student in my DS group seems to be...evangelical. This is a distinct bummer for us, because projecting a rather ardent, teen, Christian world view on the ancients makes for some bizarre results. This is more of a discussion issue than the way class is taught issue.

[tdemauro]

The Great Books I class is secular and taught that way. But every last student in my DS group seems to be...evangelical. This is a distinct bummer for us, because projecting a rather ardent, teen, Christian world view on the ancients makes for some bizarre results. This is more of a discussion issue than the way class is taught issue.

 

My 15yo ds is in this class and has stated what you posted regarding the class discussions.  We are Armenian Apostolic, very close to Catholicism, and we reside in a true blue New England state.  My son often describes the discussions as interesting but sometimes warped.... 

 

He has expressed that he often feels like an outsider in the class, especially his views on our new president in contrast to the rest of the class.  He has assured me that the teacher does not project or discuss her political or religious beliefs onto the class.  She does allow the students to express their world views with the class during the weekly discussions.

[madteaparty]

My 15yo ds is in this class and has stated what you posted regarding the class discussions. We are Armenian Apostolic, very close to Catholicism, and we reside in a true blue New England state. My son often describes the discussions as interesting but sometimes warped....

 

He has expressed that he often feels like an outsider in the class, especially his views on our new president in contrast to the rest of the class. He has assured me that the teacher does not project or discuss her political or religious beliefs onto the class. She does allow the students to express their world views with the class during the weekly discussions.

Well well, he must know who my son is...I thought my DS was alone; I think there's two of them. I'm on vacation without him, and DS texted to describe a bit of what he perceived as a gang-up last class. The side effect of all this is that it is making DS even more anti-organized religion than he already is...

[poetic license]

Well well, he must know who my son is...I thought my DS was alone; I think there's two of them. I'm on vacation without him, and DS texted to describe a bit of what he perceived as a gang-up last class. The side effect of all this is that it is making DS even more anti-organized religion than he already is...

 

Yikes. This is all good to know. I'm hoping this won't be an issue for the younger set. 

 

Do the kids talk via chat box or through a mic? 

[madteaparty]

Yikes. This is all good to know. I'm hoping this won't be an issue for the younger set.

 

Do the kids talk via chat box or through a mic?

Frankly I don't see how it can be an issue for the younger kids.ds needs to learn dissent and to stand up for what he sets on paper, so I think it's overall a good exercise for him. He just feels like a minority, which he is. It's good practice, for a homeschooled kid.

Chat box. Teacher controls mic.

Edited March 10, 2017 by madteaparty

[The Governess]

My son is in Great Books I, and will be in GB II next fall. (for a semester but only because we travel the second semester)--So I am not sure you are asking about these classes, but here goes my view anyway ;)

Of all the ways to characterize this class, "pricey" would not be the term. The amount of work on behalf of the teacher, and the amazing amount of feedbck given is astonishing, and I frankly feel we are commiting highway robbery and the class ismispriced somehow. For my son's last essay (on what constitutes "proof" in Herodotus) the teacher provided a specific outline. Then, she re-wrote my son's specific paper with redline comments (insert supporting quote here, you need conclusion there, etc etc). I don't know of any other online class that provides that level of detailed feedback.

The reading is massive, and the class is intense, but we love it. The lectures are long,this is true,and he is fairly wiped when he comes out, but there's always some interesting tidbit that he comes to me with after the class.

 

Edited because I seem to have a non-functioning spacebar that makes me sound drunk.

 

I know this is an old thread, but I'm looking into GB I for dd next year for 9th.  What would you say the workload is each week?  Did you count this class as both a literature and history credit or just literature? 

 

[madteaparty]

I know this is an old thread, but I'm looking into GB I for dd next year for 9th. What would you say the workload is each week? Did you count this class as both a literature and history credit or just literature?

 

Work load in terms of reading was massive. It was more than my DS’s college class. I think one can tell just looking at the book list.

This was taken in middle school for us so I didn’t “count†it for anything, but for gb1 you’d be justified to count for both, probably.

Edited January 21, 2018 by madteaparty

[The Governess]

.

Edited January 21, 2018 by lovelearnandlive

[The Governess]

Work load in terms of reading was massive. It was more than my DS’s college class. I think one can tell just looking at the book list.

This was taken in middle school for us so I didn’t “count†it for anything, but for gb1 you’d be justified to count for both, probably.

Thank you for the quick reply! It's so hard to choose. Dd took CLRC's intro to lit and comp classes a year ago and I thought it was very well done, so I'm hoping this one will work out. We have a long commune for dance so that would be a good time for her to read. It's just hard to know how much is too much.

[Roadrunner]

Thank you for the quick reply! It's so hard to choose. Dd took CLRC's intro to lit and comp classes a year ago and I thought it was very well done, so I'm hoping this one will work out. We have a long commune for dance so that would be a good time for her to read. It's just hard to know how much is too much.

I see you went with Blue Tent this year. How would you compare them to CLRC Lit?

[The Governess]

I see you went with Blue Tent this year. How would you compare them to CLRC Lit?

They are both good! The writing assignments have been a little different with Blue Tent. They have written a comparison paper and a cause and effect paper but they both required the use of outside sources rather than just the assigned novel (or in the case of one the novel wasn't mentioned at all, but her paper was on a historical event that took place in the novel). They use a similar clear writing process. She is getting good feedback on her essays. I have been more hands-off with her this year since this is really her second year taking a lit and comp course.

 

She likes that Blue Tent has a discussion board and she likes that there are small assignments for grammar and vocabulary mixed in. She also likes that she has the opportunity to revise some assignments for a higher grade.

 

Overall, I would say that in terms of instruction and content they are both very good, but CLRC's assignments/setup seem more "classical" (chapter summaries, applied grammar exercises, etc.) than Blue Tent (vocab cards, grammar workbook, etc.).

[fourisenough]

I know this is an old thread, but I'm looking into GB I for dd next year for 9th. What would you say the workload is each week? Did you count this class as both a literature and history credit or just literature?

 

I have very detailed answers to your questions based on my email exchange with the teacher on Friday. I’m traveling tonight (and exhausted!) but will follow up while at my computer tomorrow morning.

[fourisenough]

I know this is an old thread, but I'm looking into GB I for dd next year for 9th.  What would you say the workload is each week?  Did you count this class as both a literature and history credit or just literature? 

 

 I had an exchange with the GB 1 teacher last week and in response to my questions, this is what she replied. If you want the attachments she provided, PM me your email address and I'll forward them along. Hope this helps.

 

The workload can be daunting at first, as students get used to reading Homer's verse, but as they begin to achieve success with the study questions, and enjoy the discussions, it becomes easier and, ultimately, rewarding for those who really embrace the challenge. 

 

I've attached my syllabus for this year so you can get an idea of the reading load. I usually suggest students spend an hour a day (5 days a week) on the reading and study questions, and then perhaps an hour (total) composing the weekly Summa (a concise, ~300 word reflective essay on an idea or event in the text.-- sample attached). There are several longer essays throughout the year, and on the weeks they are due, no Summa is assigned. I provide feedback and expect students to revise their writing based on the feedback and comments. Then, of course, there are the two hours of live class each week.

 

I tell home schooling parents who have the flexibility with requirements that this course can easily be counted for two, or even three different credits -- literature, history/social studies, and composition.  That way, you save the burden of scheduling an extra writing course or history course. I'll attach a sample of the course description suitable for a transcript so you can see how that works.

 

The class is absolutely secular-friendly, but I do allow students to write their summae from a religious perspective, as we tend to be talking about big ideas dealing with ethical decisions, human nature, the purpose of life, etc., and religion can provide helpful context and comparisons. It makes for great discussions, and I am used to moderating Socratic discussions from years and years at WRA and other schools!

[The Governess]

Thanks so much for this info! I am in contact with CLCR now so no need for the attachments, but thanks so much for sharing. It looks like the workload might be doable for us if it is counting for both history and literature and I don't need to add an outside writing class.

[madteaparty]

Thanks so much for this info! I am in contact with CLCR now so no need for the attachments, but thanks so much for sharing. It looks like the workload might be doable for us if it is counting for both history and literature and I don't need to add an outside writing class.

The writing instruction/feedback given by Ms. Turscak is excellent in our experience. I personally would not add writing on top.

[fourisenough]

The writing instruction/feedback given by Ms. Turscak is excellent in our experience. I personally would not add writing on top.

What age/level of Writing was your student when GB1 became her/his primary writing instruction/practice? I ask because it’s so hard to know if my student is “there†yet. She will be turning 14 in October, has/will have completed WWS 1 & 2 via WTMA and Cindy Lange’s Intro class (intended for 8-9th graders). She writes very well at the sentence level, but without a lot of coaching, her writing is still disorganized. She’s not banging out well-argued essays in under an hour, in other words. However, she’s a very bright, diligent student who will surely be ready for a rigorous class like this eventually. It’s just hard to know if we’re to the point of being able to shift our focus from “learning to write†to “writingâ€. Does that make sense? Sort of reminds me of the early elementary shift from “learning to read†to “reading to learnâ€.

[madteaparty]

What age/level of Writing was your student when GB1 became her/his primary writing instruction/practice? I ask because it’s so hard to know if my student is “there†yet. She will be turning 14 in October, has/will have completed WWS 1 & 2 via WTMA and Cindy Lange’s Intro class (intended for 8-9th graders). She writes very well at the sentence level, but without a lot of coaching, her writing is still disorganized. She’s not banging out well-argued essays in under an hour, in other words. However, she’s a very bright, diligent student who will surely be ready for a rigorous class like this eventually. It’s just hard to know if we’re to the point of being able to shift our focus from “learning to write†to “writingâ€. Does that make sense? Sort of reminds me of the early elementary shift from “learning to read†to “reading to learnâ€.

Hi, he was 12. The writing exercises are  (I am told, I don't have the verbiage for these things) the progymnasmata exercises, and she provides a ton of support (for example, she will provide a full essay in the style/type of exercise they are undertaking). Then she provides extensive in-text comments, which, of all the damned writing classes in the world, are the most helpful (include X quote from text fro support, here, you need to say this or that there), etc etc. 

 

No one is banging well-argued essays in under an hour ;)

 

ETA that my own child's writing instruction has been haphazard at best. Don't do what I do. The Bravewriter class which was supposed to be advanced essay writing just was not.  I was just commenting to this class, which has been the most helpful to date, and which is the closest to my natural way of teaching writing short of sitting side by side and walking through the process together. 

We are with Lange now and that seems to be going well also. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by madteaparty

[fourisenough]

Hi, he was 12. The writing exercises are (I am told, I don't have the verbiage for these things) the progymnasmata exercises, and she provides a ton of support (for example, she will provide a full essay in the style/type of exercise they are undertaking). Then she provides extensive in-text comments, which, of all the damned writing classes in the world, are the most helpful (include X quote from text fro support, here, you need to say this or that there), etc etc.

 

No one is banging well-argued essays in under an hour ;)

 

ETA that my own child's writing instruction has been haphazard at best. Don't do what I do. The Bravewriter class which was supposed to be advanced essay writing just was not. I was just commenting to this class, which has been the most helpful to date, and which is the closest to my natural way of teaching writing short of sitting side by side and walking through the process together.

We are with Lange now and that seems to be going well also.

Oh, good. Would you say the teacher’s estimate of about an hour per day for reading and about an hour to write the weekly summa was accurate for your son? Obviously kids read/write at different rates, but just generally speaking... Also, have you continued with GB? If not, do you care to share your reasoning? Feel free to PM.

[madteaparty]

Oh, good. Would you say the teacher’s estimate of about an hour per day for reading and about an hour to write the weekly summa was accurate for your son? Obviously kids read/write at different rates, but just generally speaking... Also, have you continued with GB? If not, do you care to share your reasoning? Feel free to PM.

I don’t know how to answer the reading thing. She’s probably correct in terms of net time. But,we are slow and not exceedingly smart, and the antiquity reading doesn’t exactly flow. We cannot, to this day, sit and read the Iliad or Thycidides or Plutarch for 1 hour straight. Maybe 20 min at a time? He was also probably too young for the class (my homeschooling philosophy can be best defined as aspirational ;)) so we utilized an audiobook along wit reading the book where available. The readings of course got easier (we loved Medea, and Plato, for example). The writing/summas were not the time consuming issue. The study questions help guide the reading (and frankly with the historians, are probably a guide for skimming but I didn’t realize this at the time).

We did not continue GB because 1. the particular class population for my kid’s class was insanely religious. That teen Christian fanaticism applied to the ancients (a not-uncommon answer to the plagues of Athens,DS reports, is that the Athenians should have prayed more (to...Jesus?). Anyway it was affecting DS negatively in that he felt put on the spot to defend his particular world view. (Never by the teacher, fwiw). And this was election time,to boot 😳. I’ve since learned at least one other kid felt similar to mine. 2. DS got the opportunity to take an English class at our local university and really wanted to do that instead, the workload wouldn’t have permitted both.

That said, I really want to do GB IV this fall. Though Dostoevski’s Grand Inquisitor with that crowd would be...interesting. I need to see what DS decides re his college classes (he will have two for sure).

Edited January 29, 2018 by madteaparty

[fourisenough]

I don’t know how to answer the reading thing. She’s probably correct in terms of net time. But,we are slow and not exceedingly smart, and the antiquity reading doesn’t exactly flow. We cannot, to this day, sit and read the Iliad or Thycidides or Plutarch for 1 hour straight. Maybe 20 min at a time? He was also probably too young for the class (my homeschooling philosophy can be best defined as aspirational ;)) so we utilized an audiobook along wit reading the book where available. The readings of course got easier (we loved Medea, and Plato, for example). The writing/summas were not the time consuming issue. The study questions help guide the reading (and frankly with the historians, are probably a guide for skimming but I didn’t realize this at the time).

We did not continue GB because 1. the particular class population for my kid’s class was insanely religious. That teen Christian fanaticism applied to the ancients (a not-uncommon answer to the plagues of Athens,DS reports, is that the Athenians should have prayed more (to...Jesus?). Anyway it was affecting DS negatively in that he felt put on the spot to defend his particular world view. (Never by the teacher, fwiw). And this was election time,to boot 😳. I’ve since learned at least one other kid felt similar to mine. 2. DS got the opportunity to take an English class at our local university and really wanted to do that instead, the workload wouldn’t have permitted both.

That said, I really want to do GB IV this fall. Though Dostoevski’s Grand Inquisitor with that crowd would be...interesting. I need to see what DS decides re his college classes (he will have two for sure).

We just need to send a good contingent of secular kids their way to impact the collective student "voice" in the classes!

[crazyforlatin]

That said, I really want to do GB IV this fall. Though Dostoevski’s Grand Inquisitor with that crowd would be...interesting. I need to see what DS decides re his college classes (he will have two for sure).

Did the teacher mention whether it would be ok to skip around the GBs. Just wondering if it's mandatory for us to begin with GB 1. That's what it appears in the main description, but hoping that there is some flexibility.

[madteaparty]

Did the teacher mention whether it would be ok to skip around the GBs. Just wondering if it's mandatory for us to begin with GB 1. That's what it appears in the main description, but hoping that there is some flexibility.

I haven’t brought it up with her; I’ve sort of assumed we can in fact skip around (as I recall someone joined mid year too?) because we wouldn’t do the GBIII no matter what. As it is, I don’t want to bother the teacher with questions that may end up being moot because I need to see the fall class schedule at two different colleges, and then see where we are.

Edited that while I think you can take the class if you want, it may not be offered because she needs a group of kids to move through the sequence ready to take the class. So GB III wasn’t offered this last year and I’m told GB IV won’t be offered this one (but will be the following year).

Edited January 30, 2018 by madteaparty

[eternalsummer]

Well, madteaparty, you're talking me into GB1 for DD12 (almost 13) next year.  

[GeorgiaH]

I was concerned about the overly religious tone of the students' conversations in GB1 that have been expressed in this forum. I contacted the instructor, Dr. Turscak, previously about the course content, then emailed her specifically about this issue. She approved my copying her response here:

 

I make every effort to ensure that all religious (and not religious) views are treated with respect in my Great Books classes.  No one religion is treated as the only possible or correct interpretation of any topic that arises from the literature that we study. Students are not permitted to insist that their classmates think as they do.  I did have a situation last year where some students began trying to influence the beliefs of one another. I intervened and did not allow this to continue, and the issue was resolved.  Since then, I have worked to be more proactive on this issue.  I remind the students that this literature has been appreciated for millennia — by Pre-Christians, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, and others of all religious stripes — and that this class is a place to wrestle with deep ideas in the context of your own convictions but is not a place to try to make everyone else believe what you do.

 

I constantly ask my students to wrestle with the fundamental ideas that are raised in the literature we read - honor, nobility, death, family loyalty, integrity .... As we do so, I cannot forbid the students who hold religious convictions from all comments on those convictions when they reflect on the texts, just as I would never forbid a student who is an atheist from commenting on his/her belief during class.  Although many of our students are Christians, I have had Hindus, atheists, and those of other religious convictions in the class.  I insist that students make all of their comments in an atmosphere of openness and respect for those of differing beliefs but I can’t ask them to compartmentalize their religious convictions (or lack of religious conviction) so that they completely separate those beliefs from our discussions.  I have taught for over 20 years of my career in independent private schools, with students from all over the world, and they have always appreciated my classes for the freedom and openness I try to cultivate in the Socratic discussions.

 

I have been very impressed with Dr. Turscak and the information she provided about the class and this issue. I was all set to register my son for this class, but he has requested to go to public school next year... :crying: I am very sad about this, and that he won't have the opportunity to take GB1 next year...

 

I hope this helps those of you who are interested in CLRC'S GB1.

[shburks]

This is great discussion. Thank you so much! I have a 13-year old looking at Great Books I for this fall. I'm concerned it might be too heavy, so perhaps I should wait until the following year especially since we already have a history plan for next year, too. Perhaps I'll take a better look at the Intro to Lit and Comp though.

[crazyforlatin]

This is great discussion. Thank you so much! I have a 13-year old looking at Great Books I for this fall. I'm concerned it might be too heavy, so perhaps I should wait until the following year especially since we already have a history plan for next year, too. Perhaps I'll take a better look at the Intro to Lit and Comp though.

Given our workload next year for 8th grade, rather than GB1 we're highly likely going to enroll in Brit Lit which will assign 3 essays and summaries every other week. I haven't enrolled yet because part of me still wants GB1 but it'll depend on whether or not we continue with Greek.