Donna Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Regentrude mentioned in the early college thread..."Socially: does she get along better with kids slightly older than her, or with adults? For my DD, the age difference to the regular college students was wonderful; she always related better to significantly older kids and found two very close friends who were college seniors when she was 14. For her, socially this was needed; being with other teens would not have been a good fit." I sometimes worry about dd because she tends to relate better to significantly older people. From where I sit, she is at a very tricky age. With her music, she is around adults much more than other teens either performing or jamming for hours in pubs or at camps/festivals. She is completely happy and an equal musically. She has a confident, mature personality so people tend to guess she is a few years older than she is, but after the music when the others are drinking or hanging out and I refuse to leave dd out by herself, the age difference is there. It's not that she wants me to leave her alone or wishes I wouldn't keep such a close eye on her. She often tells me she is happy I am there for her. So, right now, she seems fine but she has quite a few years left until she is an adult herself and I worry that it might bother her someday. I was wondering how others navigate this "tricky" age with a mature, accelerated teen who prefers the company of adults...but isn't yet an adult? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) We did not really find this to be a problem. When DD was 14/15, her best friends were in their 20s. They just fit very well together. We had a few funny situations where age was an issue. She tutored engineering physics at the university when she was only 15, and occasionally she was asked out by a student unaware of her age; the guys backed off immediately when they found out. When she was 14 and they had to do group projects in class, the other students felt more comfortable asking her to meet in the library or coffee shop instead in somebody's dorm room. But aside from that, her age was never an issue. Also, now that she is at "real" college and is only a year younger than her class mates, she has found good friends, because her school attracts a lot of people like her. ETA: There was only one time I ever didn't allow her to do something. That was going to a football game in the city, 100 miles away, with a friend from the barn who was in her 20s and who was going with some other friends. DD was 14, I believe, did not know the other guys, and would not have had any way to get away/home in case they got separated or plans changed. So, this we did not allow. Other than that, we treated her according to her maturity, not her chronological age. Edited February 23, 2017 by regentrude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 That's a concern at the herp conferences, too. DD went to the socials for the first time this last conference, and they basically are a roomful of grad students and professionals drinking and talking about herpetology, ecology, and (this year) politics. She enjoyed it-and at 12, looks young enough that no one offered her a beer, but I can see a future where it won't be so obvious that she's young-and at least at this one, no one was carding anyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 That's a concern at the herp conferences, too. DD went to the socials for the first time this last conference, and they basically are a roomful of grad students and professionals drinking and talking about herpetology, ecology, and (this year) politics. She enjoyed it-and at 12, looks young enough that no one offered her a beer, but I can see a future where it won't be so obvious that she's young-and at least at this one, no one was carding anyone. Then she just needs to learn to say "thanks, but I'm only 14" (or whatever her age is). The environment you describe does not seem to be the kind of situation where somebody would push an underage girl to drink. A herp conference is not a frat party. So, I would not be concerned about this at all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) With the gigs..at that age I would pull ds out after an hour of socializing, as I could see a few wanted to let loose. both of my sons' colleges have a reminder in harrassment training that there are students enrolled who are too young to consent to sex,and an explanation of what the adults responsibility is. At mixed age social functions,everyone is expected to be legal, and no one is singled out for age...there may a gentle reminder that the bar is open for those of legal age, but its no different than at home other than ds hasn't encountered anyone drunk. Some will be designated drivers, some can't drink for health or religious reasons, but no one is pressuring anyone. Edited February 23, 2017 by Heigh Ho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriM Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I was wondering how others navigate this "tricky" age with a mature, accelerated teen who prefers the company of adults...but isn't yet an adult? DS#1 has always interacted very well with adults and is also very mature. I think it has made our mother-son relationship a peaceful, enjoyable, and hopefully, healthy one. He doesn't feel the need to prove himself, to escape the "parents", or to fight the authority. He's easy and enjoyable to bring places as he's comfortably conversational with our adult friends. I think it's wonderful. Now that he's also found his own tribe of kids his age, his life is a happy one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriM Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 That's a concern at the herp conferences, too. DD went to the socials for the first time this last conference, and they basically are a roomful of grad students and professionals drinking and talking about herpetology, ecology, and (this year) politics. She enjoyed it-and at 12, looks young enough that no one offered her a beer, but I can see a future where it won't be so obvious that she's young-and at least at this one, no one was carding anyone. When I was doing DE as a kid, my friends were in the 21-25 range. I never went to bars with them, but I did go to a number of parties where everyone was drinking. I was happy to be the "designated driver", and my friends were happy not to have me drink--I don't think anyone wanted to get in trouble for that especially as I lived across town and had to drive home. It was a good balance for me. It was actually easier for me at that age and with that crowd than it was later as a college student where people found it awkward that I didn't drink, and I'd get questioned about it. I guess the question is whether your daughter even wants to drink a beer. If she doesn't, I doubt anyone will mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 DS#1 has always interacted very well with adults and is also very mature. I think it has made our mother-son relationship a peaceful, enjoyable, and hopefully, healthy one. He doesn't feel the need to prove himself, to escape the "parents", or to fight the authority. He's easy and enjoyable to bring places as he's comfortably conversational with our adult friends. I think it's wonderful. Now that he's also found his own tribe of kids his age, his life is a happy one. I agree with you that having a mature, confident teen does make for a wonderful mother-child relationship. Dd is very easy to parent and has a very strong idea of who she is, what she wants to do, and what is important in her life. Because of her lifestyle, we are never at a loss for good fodder for conversations on many tough/adult topics. The folk music world is a bit different than early college (maybe somewhat like early college with lots of musician frat parties?) and over the years I have seen parents take a variety of approaches when bringing up young people in this world everything from staying close by like I do to letting young teen run without any adult supervision. At events like the conference we attended last weekend or camps where people are out playing tunes together until the wee hours of the morning, dd is right there with them because she knows the "best music happens after midnight." I sit a little ways off and listen, talk to other listeners, or read a book. I don't worry about dd making good choices but some places are more open as far as who is able to come and go so I like to err on the safe side and make sure I am there to walk her back to her dorm/room. Dd doesn't seem to feel a need for a tribe her own age and maybe that is where I worry...maybe she doesn't know what she is missing? When they find their "tribe" does it matter who that tribe is as long as your teen is happy? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Dd doesn't seem to feel a need for a tribe her own age and maybe that is where I worry...maybe she doesn't know what she is missing? When they find their "tribe" does it matter who that tribe is as long as your teen is happy? No. there is no reason the tribe needs to be of the same age. And it could still happen later, when gaps in maturity have closed a bit, or when she happens to encounter same age peers that share her interest. Look around your adult friends. How many of them are within 1-2 years of your own age? While i do have some friends from school/college who are close to my own age, I have also made friends who are 10+ years younger or older. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriM Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Dd doesn't seem to feel a need for a tribe her own age and maybe that is where I worry...maybe she doesn't know what she is missing? When they find their "tribe" does it matter who that tribe is as long as your teen is happy? Hmmm. I'm going to think out loud here: * She's happy, so don't worry. * Not knowing what she's missing doesn't mean she's missing something. * Her tribe is *hers*. Yours is *yours*. As long as she's got one that's hers without her being there by virtue of you being there, she can be happy. I hope that makes sense--my son likes hanging out with adults, but his adult friends are his parents and their friends. So he can't go hang out or play games with these adults without us being there. So he's was capable of being social with us, but it wasn't *his* tribe. Now that he's at a nerdy board gamer school, he's found a nerdy board gaming tribe of his own. So that's great. And your daughter has found a tribe of her own (you're there because she's there, not the other way around). So it's great for her. So I wouldn't worry about the tribe thing........I'd worry about the dating thing..... Because if this is her tribe, when it comes time to date, she may end up dating a guy who is significantly older than her...... And if she's not 18 yet (or even if she is), that will probably give you pause....or maybe a heart attack :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 And your daughter has found a tribe of her own (you're there because she's there, not the other way around). So it's great for her. So I wouldn't worry about the tribe thing........I'd worry about the dating thing..... Because if this is her tribe, when it comes time to date, she may end up dating a guy who is significantly older than her...... And if she's not 18 yet (or even if she is), that will probably give you pause....or maybe a heart attack :) As to the first part...I guess you are right. She is with her tribe and socializing in ways that make her happy and I am just around because she can't get there without me. (I do tend to observe from further and further away as she gets older.) As to the second...aaaah! I hadn't even considered the dating aspect, yet! Don't think I am ready to go there. She definitely has had her first "crush" and he is quite a bit older than her... I think she is more "in love" with his musical abilities than the rest of him...but dating...ugh!! Give me a few more years, please!! I have always said it will take a special guy to catch her heart. She's been around men in pubs since she was 5 years old. She knows all their tricks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriM Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 As to the second...aaaah! I hadn't even considered the dating aspect, yet! Don't think I am ready to go there. She definitely has had her first "crush" and he is quite a bit older than her... I think she is more "in love" with his musical abilities than the rest of him...but dating...ugh!! Give me a few more years, please!! Sorry.... Just speaking from experience..... :) Perhaps this answers part of your question, though--should you be an active presence? I think yes. Because the more you know the guys she might be interested in dating, the more you can help her make good choices. I think having crushes on older people is not unusual (I had a crush on a teacher once. I'm sure it happens a lot....), but in reality, when she's ready to date, there will be some guys who are older, available, and interested, and you will need to help her really think through the differences in ages and life-experiences and what that means for a relationship. It'll be easier for you all around, if you know her tribe well rather than if you stay back and are just an observer. How to balance that may be tricky, but yeah, I think you should try..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I do not understand why her tribe has to be her age. It doesn't sound like she would have much of anything in common with girls her age. Ds is 12 and hangs out happily with kids 16. Before, he hung out at the coffee shop where I worked and initally found like minded people between the ages of 23-27. These were the first people he felt he could really talk to and openly just be himself. Now that he has found super nerdy, super geeky 16 year olds they have taken over. If you blinked the group into a library, would that make you more comfortable? If it would, then you might want to examine what exactly the issue is. My first thought is that you were worried about sexual assaults, but that does not seem to be it if dating was off your radar. She is young enough now to openly look under age, but as long as she completely declares her age, I do not think many males are going to date her. Statutory rape is a MAJOR offense. You have 4 years until it is over. Any male who really wants to date her as a person would understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Dating (or, more accurately, having a crush take advantage of her) is one of my major fears. Exacerbated by sitting at the CC campus for a few hours a week. Because, honestly, it's normal to be interested during adolescence. Our local homeschool community has a real shortage of males over about the age of 10. It's far more likely she will find someone that is interesting to her on the college campus-but it is dangerous on both sides to even consider a dating relationship when one is a minor and the other isn't. I also had a horrifically bad relationship (abusive in many ways) at 18 with a 24 yr old-and a big part was that I was more attracted to older, more mature seeming men in many ways than to teens. All that led to making some poor choices when I passed that magical "legal" line. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriM Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) I also had a horrifically bad relationship (abusive in many ways) at 18 with a 24 yr old-and a big part was that I was more attracted to older, more mature seeming men in many ways than to teens. All that led to making some poor choices when I passed that magical "legal" line. :( I'm sorry..... I agree it's a minefield. I dated a 23 year old when I was 17 (a senior in high school doing DE). He was respectful and very careful, so things turned out ok, but it didn't have to. I also had a 35 year old who had been married and divorced 4 times and had a daughter one year younger than me seriously trying to date me. He'd talked about the fact that we could go to Las Vegas and get married when I turned 16. (I was at a university, not a CC, so average age might be higher than at a CC--I first met him taking summer classes at the university when I was 14 or 15.) As a parent, I'm really shocked, that my mom wasn't totally freaking out when I finally got around to discussing it with her. I do remember her saying "What's wrong with him that he's been married and divorced four times?" Good question. And that he had a daughter almost my age and wanted to date..... Nice guy--respectfully took no as a no--but horrible judgement. I did have a not-so-healthy relationship with a 21 year old at the end of my senior year (when I was 18). I think maintaining a good parent-child relationship is essential in these situations. My mom was very authoritarian, so I was not very open with her about what went on because I didn't want her to tell me I couldn't hang out with these people. I think, though, that some of it was that i didn't find my own home to be a comfortable place to be and hanging out with these older people was enjoyable. "Looking for love in all the wrong places...." is about right, but there could've been a better balance if I had a better relationship with my parents. It's my hope to build that relationship with my own kids so that the lines of communication and trust are always open. I know at some point, you have to trust them to make good choices, but I'd rather that they asked for advice on those choices than quietly navigated them on their own :( Edited February 24, 2017 by tiuzzol2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted February 25, 2017 Author Share Posted February 25, 2017 If you blinked the group into a library, would that make you more comfortable? If it would, then you might want to examine what exactly the issue is. My first thought is that you were worried about sexual assaults, but that does not seem to be it if dating was off your radar. She is young enough now to openly look under age, but as long as she completely declares her age, I do not think many males are going to date her. Statutory rape is a MAJOR offense. You have 4 years until it is over. Any male who really wants to date her as a person would understand that. You're right, she doesn't have much in common with most girls her age. We've found a few girls her age with similar interests but unfortunately they live way too far to visit more than once a year so their friendships are more virtual than anything. When everything is about playing music or hanging out during the day/early evening at gigs, festivals, camps, whatever...I am not uncomfortable at all. We know a lot of people at these events (many are like family to us and have watched dd grow up) and I know people look out for her. I do worry a bit late at night when drinking is going on so those we know might not be in a frame of mind to be alert to what is going on with dd (it isn't their place, it's mine). Someone slipping something into her drink and/or sexual assault risk does worry me, not so much with the people she is friends with because most of them we have known for years but with anyone else (strangers) who might be hanging around because everything is open at camp or festivals. She is not interested in dating at the moment and has already experienced young men 4-5 years older asking her to date. People do tend to think she is older than she is and are sometimes shocked when she tells them her age. She simply tells them she's too young. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriM Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 You have valid concerns, Donna. I think it's ok to want to be there to keep an eye out. I think it's just figuring out how to keep the balance so that it's not hovering, but just a watchful eye. I think you can do it. If a stranger doesn't know that you're the mom, but you're still close enough to keep that eye out, I think you've got the balance you're looking for. Hopefully she understands that you're just there to make sure nothing goes wrong, but you want to support her in being able to relax and enjoy that social time. Frankly, this would be a great policy for sorority sisters too--one person can relax and enjoy the party, the other stays sober and keeps an eye out for the first. A lot of really nasty crap would be prevented that way. You don't just need a designated driver nowadays, but a designated watchful eye for the whole party..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriM Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) BTW: I think one thing that my mom did that was not helpful was her negativity about men. The "men just want sex" thing really rubbed me the wrong way. Clearly many of my friends were not that way, so I overall dismissed a lot of her concerns. It took that 23 year old I was dating to take it a little more seriously when he said to me "Don't ever date my best friend ____--he's only out to bed women." I figured when a guy says that about his best friend, you have to take it seriously. But I think you can always put a good spin on it with "You know, I don't expect trouble, but I'm there in case it happens." Which is different from "I'm there to keep you out of trouble." I'm sure if she's been hanging out in bars long enough, she knows, so if you work with what she knows and believes, it shouldn't have to be an issue that you're there. Edited February 25, 2017 by tiuzzol2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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