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DS having problems with dictation - what do I do?


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DS1, who is 8.5 is not doing well with dictation.  We are on wk 7 of WWE3, we have gone through WW1 and he did great.  In WWE2, he started OK, but by the end he was hating dictation and not doing well. 

 

He paraphrases the words and gets the gist of the sentences, but I have to repeat it many many times which to me, completely defeats the purpose of dictation.

 

I think dictation is important, so I don't want to stop doing it.  But I am not seeing any improvement.

 

Thoughts?

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Take a break. Do something else for 6 months or so. Having him hate it sort of defeats the purpose too... And he's on the young side for WWE 3. Many do it a year behind.

 

By the way, you repeating it many times is quite expected, I don't see how that defeats the purpose.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

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DS1, who is 8.5 is not doing well with dictation.  We are on wk 7 of WWE3, we have gone through WW1 and he did great.  In WWE2, he started OK, but by the end he was hating dictation and not doing well. 

 

He paraphrases the words and gets the gist of the sentences, but I have to repeat it many many times which to me, completely defeats the purpose of dictation.

 

I think dictation is important, so I don't want to stop doing it.  But I am not seeing any improvement.

 

Thoughts?

 

The dictation sentences in WWE3 are really, really hard. We took a break and only did the dictation sentences in All About Spelling (which are much shorter and easier) this year. We still get the practice of dictation, but with a lot less frustration. I hope to return to WWE4 for fifth grade. I hope that by continuing dictation through AAS and by continuing other memory work, plus a little extra maturity, it will come easier in fifth. I think most children need extra repetitions: I want my kid to visualize the sentence in their heads and know how to write it down with good mechanics. If that takes additional repetitions, I don't think there's any harm in that, as long as they wait to write the sentences until they can repeat the whole thing back correctly. 

 

Have you watched SWB's "Dictation with Dan" videos on Youtube? I found it really encouraging. 

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We are only on AAS2 - and those sentences are only a few words, so he definitely does well with those.

 

I thought you only repeat it 2-4 times, otherwise you just basically say it a few words at a time.

 

I thought WWE3 is for 3rd grade and he is in 3rd grade.......after reading this board I sometimes think I am pushing him too hard :(

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No worries.  Sounds like you are working hard to provide a quality education for your child.  Hang in there.

 

Dictation is a skill that develops over time but also a child needs to be developmentally ready.   Also, some kids have lower processing speed or lower working memory, which can cause it to take longer for this skill to develop to the point that they can handle longer, harder passages.

 

Maybe take a break, as others have said, and work on copy work for a while.  Pick it up again in 6 months, starting slowly, with shorter passages, and see how he does.  He may be having trouble picturing the words and holding them in his mind long enough to write them down.  As long as he doesn't have severe working memory/processing issues this is just something that he may need more time to develop.  

 

Also, I wanted to mention that just because something says it is for "3rd grade" or is "expected" for "3rd grade" really doesn't mean much of anything.  Different materials have different scopes and sequences for what is a particular grade/age level expectation.  They are a guideline, not set in stone.  What matters is when the child is ready.  We aren't machines.  We all develop at different rates.  That is the beauty of homeschooling and one of the flaws in public school (and FWIW my mom is a public school teacher and I was raised in public school and have nothing inherently against ps overall).  In homeschooling you can go at the speed/developmental readiness of your child.  In ps the teachers have to just keep moving forward even if the material isn't age appropriate or some of the students aren't ready.  A lot of kids get left behind or think they are terrible at something when actually they might be quite good at it if they were just allowed to go at their particular developmental pace.

 

Good luck and best wishes.

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I don't really mind taking a break from dictation, but at the same time - do I really want to send the message that if he doesn't like something - we just won't do it?

I think you are maybe missing the point of many of the posts here.  It isn't that you are telling him "Hey, lets quit for a while 'cause you hate dictation."  From what you posted it sounds to many of us as if he is not ready for that level of dictation.  It is a very hard level.  The grade level listed for that material is irrelevant.  Sometimes kids are not developmentally ready for this level of dictation.  They need more time to mature.  It sounds like he has reached a level he simply is not developmentally ready for yet.  You would be saying "Hey, this isn't working well right now.  I think maybe we should try something else for a bit and we can resume this later on."

 

There is value in recognizing when it is time to set something aside for a bit, just like there is value in recognizing when it is time to just suck it up and push through.  In this case it very much sounds to many of us as if this is the time to set it aside or seriously back down to an easier level of diction for a bit while his brain matures.

 

And FWIW, frequently when a child is really HATING something they have a valid reason for doing so.  They aren't ready.  And if they aren't ready, why push it?  What is the value in making them hate something even more, struggle with something even more, and possibly lose the benefit of what that something was supposed to provide when just waiting a bit, maybe coming at it from a different perspective for a time, might reap far more rewards in the long run?

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I think you are maybe missing the point of many of the posts here.  It isn't that you are telling him "Hey, lets quit for a while 'cause you hate dictation."  From what you posted it sounds to many of us as if he is not ready for that level of dictation.  It is a very hard level.  The grade level listed for that material is irrelevant.  Sometimes kids are not developmentally ready for this level of dictation.  They need more time to mature.  It sounds like he has reached a level he simply is not developmentally ready for yet.  You would be saying "Hey, this isn't working well right now.  I think maybe we should try something else for a bit and we can resume this later on."

 

There is value in recognizing when it is time to set something aside for a bit, just like there is value in recognizing when it is time to just suck it up and push through.  In this case it very much sounds to many of us as if this is the time to set it aside or seriously back down to an easier level of diction for a bit while his brain matures.

 

And FWIW, frequently when a child is really HATING something they have a valid reason for doing so.  They aren't ready.  And if they aren't ready, why push it?  What is the value in making them hate something even more, struggle with something even more, and possibly lose the benefit of what that something was supposed to provide when just waiting a bit, maybe coming at it from a different perspective for a time, might reap far more rewards in the long run?

 

No, I am not missing the point, but I was concern that he would just think we are not doing it bc he didn't like it.  Your wording actually helps a lot, I will be trying that come Monday.  Thank you

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No, I am not missing the point, but I was concern that he would just think we are not doing it bc he didn't like it.  Your wording actually helps a lot, I will be trying that come Monday.  Thank you

Good luck.  I hope the conversation goes well.  I know it can be very hard to navigate these waters.   :grouphug:

 

Best wishes

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Well if you pause your written dictation and make it very apparent that you're substituting written working memory work (which is what dictation is) for OTHER forms of working memory work, it's no biggee. Either way, he's working. 

 

And yes, that's what I would do. The POINT is to get his working memory to increase so he has the ability to hold his thoughts, motor plan, maybe speak, and get it all out. It requires tons of working memory, which is why he's maxing out. So play Ticket to Ride every day for a month, tell him it will help his writing, and then see where you're at.

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My 8 year oId son was having the same issue, so I wouId let him copy the sentence one day and then the next day do the same sentence as a dictation, without looking.  After a few weeks he didn't need to do it in two steps like that, though I still have to repeat the sentences more than just three times.

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Two other options- go back to book 2 and have him go through those again, or pull out some short passages from the books he enjoys reading. Just till he gets the hang of it. Sometimes writing dictation from a favorite book is more enjoyable for them. This worked at our house. Some of mine loved dictation, and others really struggled with it. You didn't say where he was in spelling abilities- he may not be quite ready for the 3rd level if his spelling skills are not at the same level. Just my 2 cents. Hope you find something that will work.

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My 8 year oId son was having the same issue, so I wouId let him copy the sentence one day and then the next day do the same sentence as a dictation, without looking. After a few weeks he didn't need to do it in two steps like that, though I still have to repeat the sentences more than just three times.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Make it copywork first.
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