Forgetting math on the SAT?

[Garga]

My student took Algebra I in 8th grade, is taking Geometry in 9th grade, and will take Algebra II in 10th grade.  After that, he'll move on to other maths (but honestly, I don't even clearly understand what comes next.  I topped out at Alg II in school, and I'm outsourcing high school math for my students.  I think pre-calculus is next?)

 

The PSAT is in 11th grade and the SAT is in 12th grade, which tests up through Algebra II.  Is that correct?  The SAT tops out with Alg II?

 

If that's true, then by the time my son takes the PSAT, he won't have used Algebra in a year.  And by the time he takes the SAT, it'll have been two years.  

 

 

How does everyone handle that?  Hope their student remembers?  Give them a grueling crash course just before the test (which my student would hate and buck against)?  What am I missing?  I can't be the only person with this problem, so there has to be an answer that doesn't involve re-learning algebra a month before the test.  Does pre-calc have a lot of Algebra in it so the knowledge isn't lost?  I honestly don't even know what calculus is.  (Outsourcing!)

 

Edited February 19, 2017 by Garga_

[wapiti]

Disclaimer: while I have two kids in algebra 2, my 10th grader hasn't done SAT prep yet (this summer!) so we have no BTDT experience.

 

Here are couple of thoughts:  first, I would think he'd be using algebra during both geometry and algebra 2.  Second, I would suggest doing actual SAT prep, which would hopefully refresh his memory on any more basic algebra and prealgebra topics.  In other words, I don't think this is a problem at all.

 

An older thread:  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/601965-how-to-keep-from-forgetting-math-for-the-psatsat/

[Lilaclady]

I don't think your student will necessarily forget but you may want to incorporate test taking into his schedule. I have heard of parents that assign 15mins of test taking each day so the student is working on it consistently but it is not a big chunk of time. Mine does some review but not much

[Arcadia]

I made my oldest take the first practice test from Collegeboard since he finished precalculus before taking the SAT. He did decently enough that he didn't do any other test prep.

 

Practice tests link

https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/sat/practice/full-length-practice-tests

 

This link compares the difference in the math section between PSAT and SAT https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/about/alignment/math/psat-nmsqt-sat

[EndOfOrdinary]

Khan Academy now has SAT test prep as well. It is directly from a partnership with the College Board, so it is targeted practice.

[Guest]

Mine did some practice tests and that was enough to refresh and get the score he wqnted.

[daijobu]

If he's taking precalc, I doubt all his algebra knowledge will disappear.  Math builds on prior knowledge, so he'll continue to use and practice his math, especially algebra.  You can always do a quick prep with some books before the exam.

[StephanieZ]

My kids have always been way ahead of the typical math sequence. It's not a problem for the SAT/PSAT. So long as you have them put in 5-20 hours in the months leading up to the exam to review using a practice/prep book and/or Kahn Academy, they'll be golden. 

 

ALL upper math relies heavily on basic algebra, and so any kid whose still doing some serious math are constantly using the most basic algebra skills (and also getting practice in chemistry, physics, etc.), so they can easily do targeted practice to review and very quickly remember any minor topics that have slipped their mind in the intervening years, and be ready to score very well on the actual exams quite easily.

 

Specifically, despite having done their algebra and geometry mostly in middle school and being into Calculus by junior year, my older two are both National Merit Scholars, having scored in the top 1% of the nation on SAT/PSAT/etc, and each of them was especially strong in math on those exams. DS17 got a 780/800 on his last math SAT in December, having missed a total of 2-3 questions on the math part of the exam. . . And, really, they did very little targeted prep for their exams and could have easily done much more if needed . . . Probably 10 hours or so each for the PSAT and maybe 5 more hours for their SATs, if I'm generous in my estimation. If they'd had significant trouble with recall/etc, then they might have had to put in more time. 

 

So, I guess my point is, don't sweat it. AND, just be sure they start a bit of targeted prep 3 months or so before the important exams, so if their first practice tests show need for more time, they have plenty of time to do it. For both my kids, their first attempts at PSAT/SAT practice tests would show sorry math scores -- well, sorry for them, so maybe mid 600s, or 80% or so. Within 4-6 hours of review/practice tests, they'd be in the 95%+ and with a few more hours, they'd be reliably scoring in 99%, with near perfect math scores.

[regentrude]

I see no danger of a student forgetting algebra 1 if it has been mastered and understood.

Not only will the student use algebra 1 concepts all the time in algebra 2 and pre-calculus, but also in high school level chemistry and physics courses.

2-3 weeks of some targeted preparation with a designated test prep book should entirely suffice.

Edited February 20, 2017 by regentrude

[katilac]

Agreed, a bit of test prep and he will be fine. 

 

You might also consider taking the SAT in 11th-grade. PSAT is in October, so he can take it in spring and not be tested out. That gives hime the chance to take it a second time in fall of junior year as needed, or in early summer (we do ACT, so I'm not sure of SAT dates). 

 

My oldest dd was done with ACT in April of junior year, and it was quite fabulous to cross that off of the list. It was also good to have official scores for various honors colleges and programs, and to be able to have all the scholarship info submitted early. And fall of senior year was crazy for her, she met with so many people and had so much paperwork to do.

 

I'm hoping really hard youngest is also done in April or June of junior year!

[8Arrows4theLord]

Is your son currently in 9th grade doing Geometry? Is that correct? If it is, and he will do Alg. 2 in 10th grade- you could start Saxon Advanced Mathematics using Art Reed's CD's that summer after Alg. 2. That would give him extra review of Alg. and Geometry. He should do very well on the PSAT's. The Adv. math will cover Trig./ Pre- Calc. skills during his 11th gr. year, then continue into 12th with the Calc. book.

Or just use Khan Academy over the summer to keep his Alg. skills sharp till the test in October. Then continue with your favorite math choice. Either way he should be fine for both tests. :001_smile:

[Tiramisu]

I will say some kids absolutely do forget. That's why I learned my lesson to either use a program the incorporates plentiful review or add in a daily review book. That's not for the SAT but something I've done since the elementary grades, because it's necessary for them.

 

I just had a kid do the PSAT this year after being in a brick and mortar school where math wasn't reviewed often, and I had failed to keep it up at home even though I knew from first grade this kid needs regular math review. She scored over two hundred points lower in math despite equally high grades in English and math classes.

 

As soon as I saw the split on the PSAT results, she started Khan and got in a few weeks worth of practice, about fifteen to twenty minutes most days, and her math score really jumped on the SAT. She'll continue to work on it until she tests again, using Khan and a special workbook. Practice tests would be worthless for her. She needs targeted work to refresh particular things she hasn't seen for awhile, if she has ever seen them at all.

 

I think you really have to know your kid. I really don't know why things don't get into long-term memory with this otherwise bright girl.

 

I think a practice test might be a good way to start to figure out what kind of practice is necessary. You'll be able to tell if a practice test is enough or if more thorough review is required.

 

For my next kids, I think I'd like to continue basic algebra review through geometry and even algebra 2 and precalc. Some kids really won't need this but others will.

[EKS]

I would be more worried about forgetting geometry than forgetting algebra.  A kid who is in precalculus is doing algebra (and trig) and will have been doing algebra all year the previous year in Algebra II.  You still do all of the things that are learned in Algebra I in subsequent years--it's just that other stuff is added on to them.  

 

That said, there is barely any geometry on the new SAT/PSAT.  So that's less of a worry that it would have been before.

[regentrude]

For my next kids, I think I'd like to continue basic algebra review through geometry and even algebra 2 and precalc. 

 

But aren't they using algebra all the time in their algebra 2 and precalc problems? They have to use algebra 1 tools daily in these courses.

Plus, they should be using algebra in chemistry and physics as well.

 

If you have a light geo program, there may not be a lot of algebra - but a  strong geometry program would have linear equations, systems of linear equations, and quadratics applied to geometry problems.

Edited March 1, 2017 by regentrude

[Tiramisu]

But aren't they using algebra all the time in their algebra 2 and precalc problems? They have to use algebra 1 tools daily in these courses.

Plus, they should be using algebra in chemistry and physics as well.

 

If you have a light geo program, there may not be a lot of algebra - but a strong geometry program would have linear equations, systems of linear equations, and quadratics applied to geometry problems.

This is what I thought, too, and I really don't understand why dd didn't do better after having finished algebra 2 just the year before, even with her weaknesses. (But this is a kid who would forget math facts over a weekend until the end of fourth grade.)

 

I think it might come down to being a problem of not having sufficient practical application in math classes and having various concepts presented in an isolated way without connections being made.

 

As far as science goes, she had an exceptional chemistry teacher but she's been saying all year that she really feels like she's not seeing how all the different things they are studying in physics fit together, despite getting As. This is not a kid who can naturall integrate and apply math very well without having it made explicit. I don't think it's just her problem in physics because last year the physics students got together and hired a tutor as a group because everyone was struggling.