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WISC - IV score discrepancies question


suenos
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So this group seems to have a lot of knowledge and experience with this.  Can y'all help me understand what DS' score differences on the subtests might mean?  How would you adapt your learning activities/expectations and/or help strengthen weaknesses?  TIA for any insights or suggestions! 

 

DS is 9 now, had neuropsych eval at age 8 (a little over a year ago). He is diagnosed with ADHD, SPD and LD in reading (dyslexic). One of my main uncertainties is he did the tests at his most dysfunctional in terms of behavior and attention/focus.  I could overhear the testing and they had a hard time keeping him on task at all - though they seemed to know what they were doing.  

 

So here's the WISC - IV scores:

 

FS IQ                           89 (average) 

Verbal comp              108  (70th percentile - average) 

Perceptual reasoning  84  (14th percentile - low average)

Working memory         94  (34th percentile - average)

Processing speed        75  (5th percentile, moderately impaired)

 

They also ran a memory/learning test - CMS - Children's Memory Scale (heard of this one?  I hadn't...)

 

The big story on that one was huge dichotomies:  good overall memory and learning scores...but Superior (95 - 99th percentile) for verbal and auditory memory (immediate and delayed recall/learning curve). While Visual memory was moderately impaired (1 - 5th percentile).  Only visual tasks he did well on were faces/family activities visual scenes - when he was average 50 - 75th percentile, depending on task. 

 

They ran the Executive Function tests - Delis-Kaplan EF System - too.  But I can make sense of those!  They were no surprise.  Low on attention/switching/inhibitory control, etc. Decent on reasoning/verbal "cognitive fluency".  

 

DS has pretty big fine motor deficits - coming along, but very delayed - might have played a role in the timed tests.  But who knows? 

 

Recently we have found a medication that has been a total game changer for DS - previous rounds of ADHD meds were disastrous and unhelpful (stim and non-stim).  But he has been on Straterra for the past 3 months and the difference is amazing - his mood is so improved (no more crying over everything; way less irritable), anxiety and frustration are way down. He's gone from multiple meltdowns daily over everything frustrating (he's a perfectionist...) to....none.  It's not doing much about hyperactivity - but that's always been the least of DS' problems.   

 

This is radically changing what we are able to do in terms of homeschooling. Prior to now we did not do a lot of formal instruction/table work.  I'm fine with that.  Writing/reading practices involved tears, screaming, running and hiding and DS hitting himself over the smallest error/difficulty. It just wasn't possible to make much progress.  But now DS wants to practice handwriting and reading and is staying calm throughout and giving it his best effort. Also, and I hope this doesn't sound weird - but he wants to learn everything now. He's always enjoyed our read alouds about history and science and literature. But now I am having trouble keeping up with him - he wants to read about everything (me read to him - his reading is at about a 2nd grade level), he watches and wants to talk about science videos (everything - space, electricity, fossil fuels, genetics/gene editing, hx of human evolution, etc.). Government/political news stuff.  History. And he wants depth.  I've gotten some things that he thinks are insulting his intelligence - he wants to know and understand more!  I'm beginning to think that his deficits are masking real strengths...and I'm trying to come to terms with how to better help him with both ends of the spectrum.

 

 So that's why the return to those scores and thinking this all through...

 

Sorry for the book length post!  I try to edit/delete! 

 

 

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I think a big question is if his processing speed is higher while he takes Strattera.

 

That is possible and it would make a HUGE difference to improve from 5th percentile.

 

My older son had some OT scores go from below 10th percentile to..... one went into the 50th percentile range, several went into the high teens and low 20s.

 

And with this his improvement in daily life was HUGE.

 

So that is my thought :)

 

(For a while I felt disappointment that some scores only went up to high teens and low 20s..... but really this represented things being so much easier for him, so much less frustrating.... it was very worth it even if I had thought everything could get to 50th percentile.).

 

But anyway my thought is just to wonder if the low score might be higher on Straterra, that is all I have got ;)

Edited by Lecka
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My thoughts are that scores are a snapshot of that day. If he was unfocused then he may not have performed his best. One thing I would maybe get looked into is one of those COVD eye exams if possible. It seems that could be causing some of what you saw in the scores. I do think fine motor delays can ask really effect scores for some of the tasks. I am glad you found something that was a game changer for the emotional and mood issues.

Edited by MistyMountain
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I would get his eyes eval'd by a COVD doc based on those visual perception scores, but I would want an OT/PT to check for retained reflexes as well, given the issues with fine motor, etc. So you would do the OT and reflex work, then go back and re-eval the eyes, see where they're at and decide if therapy is needed.

 

You've got a spread like NVLD, yes? That's great that the meds are working. Yes, absolutely he has some strengths!! It's exciting that he's made enough progress that you can start to see them! It sounds like his learner side is getting unleashed, and he finds the work and interaction inspiring enough that he's wanting more. It sounds like you're doing a good job!

 

What are you wanting here? Did they test language? If he's having any issues with comprehension or language, you could check that. It sounds like you're doing a good job chaining his interests, getting them broad, and finding ways he enjoys intersecting with material. Keep doing it!

 

For instance, my ds is like that, and I've been eyeing some news magazines for him. It would be a little way to sneak in reading, up the caliber of content, scratch his itch for novelty and depth, and maybe chain to things he didn't realize he would find interesting.

 

If you're not doing social skill at home, I would probably at that.

 

His improved behavior is giving you wiggle room to add more good things in. Go farther out of the box. Stretch yourself by asking what you would do if he DIDN'T have disabilities? What would he have access to if he could read at the level that interests him? What barriers do you need to break down to give him access? 

Edited by OhElizabeth
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Thanks for your responses!   

 

I do think that DS' attention/mood issues probably really impacted his testing results. It might be worth re-testing in a year or so to see....if I thought more info would help guide us. But I also think the differences between different subtests are 'real', too. They line up a lot with what I see in everyday life and when we're working on things together.  I'm not concerned that my kiddo have a higher IQ or not - just looking to see how to best help him, especially given his challenges with attention/focus and reading/writing. 

 

I do have questions though - Lecka - what does the processing speed issue mean for your son?  If you don't mind sharing...I'm not sure I really understand it. I see it in my DS - he does mental math, and does well...but it's one step at a time, slowly and it's a struggle to remember the steps he's taken already, especially now that he's doing multi-digit or multi-step problems, all in his head. But I always put it down to his attention/focus/concentration problems.  

 

The COVD exam has been on my list for a long time.  I do think it's time to check it out.  

 

Thanks OhE for the encouragement.  We have struck out twice with OT's.  Just not helpful, even hurtful.  On the priority list it's always been on the back burner. If other things keep getting better, it might be time to try again...but I'm down to one outfit, not covered by insurance...and they have a 3 month waiting list generally....but I would be interested in learning stuff myself and working with DS at home - we have done a lot of good things for DS when it comes to sensory issues...I don't know anything about these "retained reflexes" - only heard of them.  And I have to admit that what I have heard makes me feel a bit skeptical...(so does the COVD/VT stuff sometimes...)...my "woo-woo" / "hooey" antennae start tweaking.  So not to shut down the suggestion - rather I'd be interested to hear more and plan to start Googling. 

 

Funny you mentioned the news idea OhE - DH has been reading the paper to DS the last few weeks and talking about it.  We've also been listening to the news in the car and discussing it, too.  He loves it.  Springboarding it to reading might be challenging - but worth a shot. 

 

I also really appreciate the questions - they're the important ones, now I think.  I've been fairly happy with what we've been doing in terms of 'school' up to now, but it's time to stretch and add and your question about what we would do and how we could get closer to it are thought provoking and helpful! 

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I am sorry because I was not clear.

 

I have read things where for some kids they do have measurable increases of processing speed when they take ADHD medication.

 

And then I have read some where the test score doesn't change but in real life there is improvement with how quickly they can do things.

 

So I saw the processing speed so low and have an impression you have had improvement -- so I thought this might be the case for you.

 

And then separately -- with my son we have seen major real life improvement with one low area improving. Bc below the 5th or 10th percentile is a lot lower than being in the high teens ---- even though it doesn't seem like it would make that much difference, it does.

 

But my son only had speech/language testing and OT testing before he was 10 and he had already done a lot of remediation by then (lots of reading, years of speech and OT).

 

So on OT testing there is a section of visual-motor integration that has several sub-sections where he scored very low when he was 7. And he did basically 2 years of OT (and then he has done more since then) but after the 2 years or so, one of the sub-sections was up to 50th percentile. The other sub-sections were up to high teens/low 20s.

 

But he blossomed in many, many ways with having the lowest sub-sections bumped up. Many things became easier and less frustrating.

 

But I saw that with the OR scores, but my understanding is it can be like this any time a score that is below 10th percentile goes up even a small amount. A small amount can go a really long way then.

 

But on the testing he did when he was 10 (I wanted a dysgraphia diagnosis which he got) he shocked me by scoring average on working memory and processing speed. Like -- 98, 99, 100 type scores.

 

Then he scored high 80s and low 90s on all the phonemic awareness type stuff that he worked so hard on (very dyslexia type stuff) and that was remediated.

 

And he scores 86 on the writing thing and got diagnosed with dysgraphia.

 

But I was just making the point that maybe your son is one where the medication was bumping his processing speed, and that does go a long way.

 

I don't know exactly what good supports are for multi-step math but I think there is stuff out there.

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Yeah, OTs are a crap shoot. I can totally see why you've gotten burnt. Don't ask how many I've been to with my two dc. Now we're with a PT who is pretty good with reflexes. The nice thing about the reflexes is you can SEE them happening and you can see the improvement as you work on them. So in that sense they're pretty concrete, not voodoo. But I agree, OT at $100 an hour can be a real money pit. It doens't always feel as valuable as what you're paying out. And the crazy thing is, the reflexes themselves are a nothing, like really fast to test, really fast to do homework on. We're banging my ds' out in maybe 10-15 minutes a couple times a day. Last session he was with the PT just 15 min. Like it doesn't HAVE to be that big a deal.

 

Have you seen the God's World News kids magazines? Or CNN kids? 

 

Teaching Company/Great Courses might have courses on economics on audible. You could check. You never know what a kid will like. My ds has listened to some. He's really surprising with what he'll ear read.

Edited by OhElizabeth
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As I understand it, the processing speed is determined by the score on the coding subtest. DS scored in the first percentile on that section (twice). Sigh.

 

Anyway, the coding test is highly dependent on good motor skills and vision. There is a series of numbered boxes with little figures drawn in them.The person taking the test has to fill in blank numbered boxes by drawing the correct figures. So motor and vision skills are important for executing the test.

 

When you say processing speed, you might think it refers to the time it takes the brain to take in information and then put it back out. The thinking process. Which the test does measure, because they have to think about what drawing to put in the box. But the coding test on the WISC indicates the difficulty of getting things down on paper. Our NP called it "slow processing with pencil to paper tasks."

 

For DS, it impacts his ability to organize his thoughts while writing. But it also impacts the physical act of writing on paper. So he has messy handwriting (usually legible, so that's great for him) and doesn't line up his paragraphs correctly. He has trouble staying on the line on school papers (he is enrolled in school) and lining up his math problems. His math notebook just has numbers scrawled randomly on the pages from when he copies things written on the board, and it cannot be used to review for tests. When the teacher or other students go over answers in any class, and he is expected to write them down, his efforts are mixed. Sometimes he manages it. Sometimes he writes the correct answer on the wrong line. Sometimes he writes half an answer and leaves the rest blank (I'm guessing this is because he runs out of time before they move to the next problem). Sometimes he puts a wrong answer on the line. He just doesn't have time to slow down and do it correctly in the time allotted by the class.

 

In his IEP, his accommodations include copies of things the teacher writes on the board, copies of class notes, study guides with the answers already written in (because he can't study well from his own sheet if it is not filled in correctly), and visually uncluttered assignment pages. And speech to text, which is one the school has not used for him yet. He is also to be allowed to answer test questions orally to show that he understands without having to write his answers down (not sure the school has used this accommodation for him yet, either). Typing is a useful accommodation, because often it's easier to type than hand write for kids with dysgraphia or processing speed issues.

 

I think if you think of the processing speed as measuring how effectively he can get information onto paper, it's easier to understand it than if you think of it as any kind of slow thinking.

 

As Elizabeth mentioned, your son's scores do suggest a nonverbal learning disorder profile, which you might want to read about, if you have not already.

 

It sounds like the things he has developed an interest in academically draw on his verbal strengths, which is great and may explain the discrepancies you are noting. Capitalize on that as much as you can. You can try to pull those interests into his writing, for example, so that he can write about things that interest him, but if you do that, use speech to text software, so that he can dictate his thoughts, or scribe for him. What you don't want to do is link his strong interests to academic requirements that will frustrate him, because they require those motor skills that he has trouble with.

 

I also agree to think about his social skills. Social skills are often impacted by NVLD and often become more apparent as the kids get older. They also impact employability. There are a lot of things wrapped up in the social skills category than people think. I kept bringing up social at meetings at my son's school last year, and the teachers kept saying, "but he seems to have some friends." That is not the issue. I insisted on pragmatic testing, and DS's scores were extremely low, and now he has therapy in his IEP.

 

Edited by Storygirl
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Also, yes, the ADHD meds can bump scores. DS happened to have started meds just a few weeks before his NP testing, so he was medicated.

 

I don't know if it is worth retesting just to see if scores will be higher, though. You will want to retest in high school, if he is college bound, because college disability offices and the ACT/SAT people want to see recent testing and proof that accommodations have been needed and used. Unless you think there are unanswered questions about diagnoses, retesting before then is not likely to be worth it.

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Thank you Lecka and Storygirl - that was so incredibly helpful for me - to hear about y'alls/your DCs' experiences and for those explanations of the subtests and what they're testing and what it might mean.

 

That pen to paper thing - the integrating visual and motor - after y'alls help with understanding it - yeah, now I can totally see that would be rock bottom for DS.  Also, I'm willing to bet the Straterra might be helping, somehow, with that too - we've been doing more puzzle-y type activities - Q-bitz and pattern blocks and I really thought DS would resist, and instead he is doing them and liking the challenge - not the same fine motor as pencil drawing at all- but still lining up, looking at figures on cards and moving his fingers to match them. I don't see him being able to stick with it pre-medication.  I've been using games and puzzle type stuff all along to try to get at visual-fine motor skill issues and while it's definitely time to bump up the writing/handwriting, I do think the games/puzzles are a great way to go for DS.  I'd definitely include arts/crafts - we try - but his mama is.not.crafty.  I actually bailed on a gifted program in high school b/c they kept requiring artsy projects and mine looked like, well, a typical 7 yo made them!  I begged to be put in honors/regular classes with 'normal' reading and tests and papers!  :laugh:

 

Lecka that situation of your son's sounds difficult and frustrating - I really admire him for sticking it through and giving it his best! 

 

Social skills.  Sigh.  Whenever I get a little overwhelmed, I remind myself that Dh and I talked about and agreed - when it came to our DS at least his social and emotional well-being would be the most likely determinant of his "success" as an adult - and it is worth making it the highest priority of our homeschool - not what grade level he is on for math or reading or whatnot.  Not that academics aren't important to us too, just needing to have rock solid big picture priorities and every now and then checking to make sure what we do is actually in line with those priorities. But this is likely preaching to the choir here...

 

I have to say that I am feeling really encouraged - and seeing reasons in DS to be more encouraged...but I am so frustrated!!!  We have hobbled along and never really found the help and support we've really needed.  Ok, wah, that's likely what most of us go through with complex, challenging kids.  

 

OhE - I'm off to find out about reflexes - how to test and what to do...I'd be interested if there is  something I can actually witness and some logic for why it matters that makes sense to me! 

 

Ok - not that I haven't picked y'alls brains enough - but I don't want to buy trouble - DS has plenty of acronyms already, my goodness...NVLD?  Heard of it...but just from the subtest differences?  Are major differences in subtests that unusual?  Please know I'm going to do my own homework - not just ask here and bug you guys!!

 

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On the WISC, one standard deviation is 10 points. So when you have 20 points of discrepancy, you are at 2 standard deviations of discrepancy, which is considered statistically significant. So yes, that 20 point discrepancy is a big deal! It's a BIG DEAL. That's the whole point of standard deviations. Neither score, by themselves, is really noteworthy. It's the discrepancy that is the issue.

 

You were at 19 discrepancy, yes? One point shy, lol. With or without the label, I'd use it to give you a list of areas to look at.

 

Some kids who meet NVLD criteria will also be diagnosable under autism. It's always worth looking and keeping in mind. NVLD is kind of a small label, big umbrella kind of thing, so you start unpackign it and realizing how much was involved. fine motor, missing social, language, learning, on and on. 

 

For the social, yes you're correct in your suspicion. Social skills are considered THE NUMBER ONE determiner of future employability. You can go to SocialThinking.com and buy terrific materials to use with him. You can go to their fabulous workshops. I went to one and hope to go to another this spring. Whatever it costs you, they would be worth the money. They give discounted pricing for parents, so make the effort! They'll have their materials there for sale too, so you get to see things in person. Check it out. :)

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Edited by OhElizabeth
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Yes, OhE is right. That discrepancy is important, and it is a diagnostic indicator for NVLD. Now, NVLD is not in the DSM, so some practitioners will not diagnose it, but that does not mean it is not a real thing. Those are almost the exact words our NP said to us three years ago when DS was diagnosed with NVLD. At the time, I had not even heard of NVLD, so it was really overwhelming, but over time, I've seen how on point our NP was. At the time, I thought he would get a ASD diagnosis, and I was surprised and wondered if they could be wrong. Three years later, I totally see it. 

 

And yes, NVLD is on the border of the autism spectrum. Some kids with severe cases will tip over into ASD, while others with a mild case will not. Some kids with NVLD will not have any LDs and will just have mild symptoms. NVLD has layers and layers of potential difficulty, any of which may or may not appear in a particular child. DS is on the severe end and ticks off everything on the checklist.

 

Just for your consideration, here is a little rundown of common characteristics for NVLD:

 

* It's called a nonverbal learning disability, because the child has verbal strengths but nonverbal deficits. They may have trouble reading facial expressions and body language, which leads to social confusion. They learn best when given verbal instruction instead of having to read instructions or watch a demonstration. They may have strong vocabulary skills and talk a lot but miss the point of conversations. They take things literally and have trouble with figures of speech in writing and conversation. They may lack theory of mind and be unable to see things from another's POV, which causes social difficulty. They may hone in on details, but they are the wrong details, and meanwhile they miss the main point (they "see the trees but not the forest").

 

* Visual-spatial difficulties. This affects clumsiness and getting lost physically, as well as trouble with things like geometry, reading maps/charts, etc.

 

* Good memory skills, particularly auditory memory and the ability to memorize information. Early math and phonics skills often learned easily.

 

* Poor social/pragmatic skills. This encompasses some of the things I wrote about nonverbal communication, but there is a lot more. Nonverbal communication may account for up to 65% of the way that we communicate, so people with NVLD miss a lot.

 

* Math concepts are difficult, so math gets harder as the student gets older. High school level math can be very frustrating; for those with a severe math disability, math at the algebra level and up is particularly challenging.

 

* Reading comprehension difficulties. This is related to many of the things I already mentioned. They may understand the vocabulary but still not really know what a sentence or passage is trying to convey. Fiction is hard, because they may have a hard time understanding non-literal language, non-linear plot lines, the character's POV, and character development. Because they don't "get" fiction, they may read less of it by choice and thus fall farther behind.

 

* Often co-morbid with dyspraxia (developmental coordination disorder) and sensory processing issues. Often there is fine motor deficit. Gross motor skills may be better, but they may be clumsy with things like catching balls, playing team sports where they have to predict the movement patterns of teammates, etc.

 

* There is a term "illusion of competence" that often describes people with NVLD. Because they are highly verbal, they can seem really competent and knowledgeable when people first meet them. But over time, they can disappoint the expectations of others, because they do not perform in their job skills up to the level that the boss or teacher expected based on their verbal skills. They seem to understand, but don't. It can seem like they are not trying or don't care or are lazy. Unfortunately, this affects employability.

 

I don't mean to give you a bunch of negative things to think about, but I've found that it is helpful to know these things, so that we can both address them and not be surprised when they crop up. The difficulties with NVLD get more pronounced as the years progress.

 

You may read this and not see these patterns in your son. Great! Not everyone with the NVLD profile has the related disabilities. But it's helpful to know what to look for.

 

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By the way, there are some things I don't like about statistics. I've had three kids tested by NPs now, and I sometimes feel annoyed when people look at the scores and say, "no problem, they are within the range of average, even though it is low average." Meanwhile, those scores land them in something like the 12th percentile. Which means 88% of other people are better at that skill. It may not signify enough to be called an area of disability, but it can still have a significant impact on functioning.

 

Recently my other son was tested by a NP, and he had a lot of weaknesses that didn't cross over into anything diagnosible, because he was within the range of what is considered normal. But those things still cause big problems for him, because they are big weaknesses. I found it frustrating to hear them say, "look, these scores are good; good for him!" when those are areas that cause him trouble.

 

Anyway, that is just me venting. But I have a reason for bringing it up. Your son's perceptual reasoning score is the 14th percentile. And his processing speed is 5th percentile. Even though the scores in those areas are listed as "low average" or "moderately impaired"......look at the numbers and do the math to see the picture of where he falls compared to the general population. Low perceptual reasoning and processing speed, combined with a high verbal score, is the indicator of NVLD. So, yes, the subtest scores are important indicators and can be diagnostically significant.

 

I feel like I'm raining a bunch of bad news down on you, :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  and I hope it doesn't come across that way. The reality is that these things that seem like bad news are the things that can help explain the problems that we have with educating our children, so they are important to understand. And then we hopefully find ways to balance things out by also working with the child's strengths.

 

By the way, I agree with having vision tested with a COVD. We did that. DS's vision was not deemed problematic. It's a good thing to know, one way or another. But do some research first. We did not need to pursue vision therapy, so I didn't experience this myself, but in reading about it, I heard that some vision therapists have a reputation for finding something to treat in everyone they evaluate. I don't want to disparage the profession -- I think there is merit in it! -- but as in anything, be careful whom you choose to do testing, because the practices can vary widely.

Edited by Storygirl
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Storygirl - your explanations of NVLD and perspective on the low end scores are really helpful to me - thank you!  I did a little bit of research on NVLD as well last night and this morning.  Some things fit...some not at all...but IdK.  Can someone be dyslexic and NVLD?  They seem kind of opposite?  That's not the main "doesn't fit" thing - I'm just curious after your description and what (little) I've read so far...

 

 But the biggest thing I'm trying to think through is how to take those scores and insights into potential issues and apply them to what we do - both how to adapt what we do in light of his strengths/serious weakness and also how to strengthen weaknesses.  

 

Thanks for your kind words too - my little guy has always been a puzzle and clearly differently wired - so I'm a bit immune to bad news these days.  Anything that helps us better understand and help him...

 

 

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Typically people with NVLD will learn to read easily, and their reading troubles are with comprehension. However, there have been other people on the LC boards whose kids have had both NVLD and dyslexia. So it's possible.

 

When DS was first diagnosed at age nine, I was skeptical. Now I see how he fits the criteria perfectly. Part of that is my growth in understanding as I've done more reading. Part is that I now understand the significance of his reactions and behaviors in a different way, knowing what is at the root of them. And part is that the pattern with NVLD is that some aspects worsen with age, which has been true for DS. For example, at age 9, I considered him to be naturally good at math (not a prodigy, but good at it, compared to his older sister, who always struggled with it), but the NP said he had a math disability. I was caught by surprise. But two years later, his struggles were more obvious, and when tested by the schools for his IEP, he scored at the bottom in math, indicating a pretty severe disability. I was also not expecting the reading comprehension disability, based on his reading at age 8 and 9, but by age 11 and 12, it was obvious. DS was a gymnast and athletic, so the dyspraxia was a surprise. But after I knew what to look for, I could see it more and more.

 

So some things may become more evident over time. It's good to be on the lookout, so that you don't miss signs as things crop up. Some of the problem areas are easy to miss if you are not aware to look for them.

 

Like autism, NVLD is a spectrum, and some kids with the profile will only have mild symptoms or only will have some characteristics but not others.

 

I like this overview: http://www.schoolbehavior.com/disorders/aspergers-nld/overview-of-nonverbal-learning-disability/

 

Lots of good info here: https://www.nlda.org/

 

 

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You can find information online about how to provide accommodations for kids with NVLD, as in the example I posted above. You can read through a list of suggestions like that, pick out the things that you think might help your child, and try them. You will likely find that some accommodations are more needed and helpful than others. Over time, his needs will change, as well, and you can refer back to these kind of lists to get new ideas.

 

I mentioned some of the things the school does for my own son in post #8. He also gets extra time on tests and a human reader for standardized testing (for all sections other than the reading section, where it is not allowed). One of the things emphasized by our special ed case manager when writing the IEP is that the NVLD kids need to have all instructions verbalized.

 

DS has a large IEP. One of the things you may want to do, if you don't already, is to document for each year of school what accommodations you provided in your homeschool teaching. It will help you see how his needs evolve over time, give you a plan that you can tweak as you go along, and also serve as important documentation if you ever want to apply for accommodations for the SAT, ACT, and through college disability services. They want to see a paper trail, so it's good to start that.

 

You don't have to recreate a replica of an IEP at home, but it might help you to look up example IEPs online, to see what kind of things can be done. I found that to be helpful as I thought through what kind of help DS needed. IEPs include specific yearly goals, as well as lists of accommodations and modifications. It could be helpful for you to sketch out something like that for your son, since you are wanting to have a plan.

 

 

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Had a whole post deleted with a power surge when I was finishing typing it yesterday....

 

Storygirl - I've checked out those sites and the lists of accomodations and typical difficulties is interesting.  I don't think DS fits the overall NVLD picture - but I think there's something going on with DS with some of the things on those lists...so I'll be in watch, wait, and see mode and your explanations and that overview of NVLD are really helpful for that - so thank you!!!! In the meantime I'm really thinking about how to take what I see as his deficits and adapt our learning activities accordingly - while also figuring out how to maybe help strengthen some of them, if possible. 

 

Documentation? Of "accomodations"   :huh:  :lol:  :crying:  .  What a thought!   Oh my....well we've got work to do....

 

The best part for me is that we've been able to "accomodate" DS all along - working on strengths, taking reading (dyslexic) slow and steady, waiting on writing and more formal math instruction until he was emotionally/behaviorally able to handle it.  It wasn't really a grand master plan - more like just doing what we could when we could and trying to have fun along the way...  And now DS is at a place and age where it is time to ramp up formal instruction / output (writing, especially).  So mostly I feel pretty optimistic....

 

 

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On the WISC, one standard deviation is 10 points. So when you have 20 points of discrepancy, you are at 2 standard deviations of discrepancy, which is considered statistically significant. So yes, that 20 point discrepancy is a big deal! It's a BIG DEAL. That's the whole point of standard deviations. Neither score, by themselves, is really noteworthy. It's the discrepancy that is the issue.

 

 

 

 

Small correction: Standard deviation on the WISC Full Scale and Index Scores (based on 100 as the mean) is 15. SD on subtest scores (based on 10 as the mean) is 3.

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I've found that I can get good ideas from accommodation suggestions online; I can glean ideas that might help, even if the whole list doesn't apply. And you can always go back and look at the ideas again when the needs change.

 

I never kept a list of accommodations and things that we did to help our kids, but when we enrolled in school and went through the IEP process, the school psych asked me to provide one, as their previous teacher. I wished I had noted things as we went along, each year, instead of having to think back through a number of years. And my kids were only fourth and fifth grade. I wouldn't have enjoyed doing it when they were in high school and having to remember all the way back to grade one.

 

So it can be helpful. And you can then look back at it to see what has worked, what has not, things you used to do and should try again, etc. You can also see where progress has been made over time. So it can be useful for you as the teacher, even if you are never asked for documentation from an outside source. It will also be helpful if you have another round of NP evaluations in the teen years to document what is needed for college; the more information you have to give to the psych, the better they can get to know the child.

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