We want to get a verbal reasoning test done, yes?

[SarahW]

So we have finally begun the evaluation appointments for Crazypants ( :party: )

Only problem is, we're not in an English speaking country. And while CP has picked up Dutch very well, his main language is still English. So the psych doesn't want to run a test on him in Dutch. But her office does not do English language tests.

 

For background, when CP was in K he was administered the KBIT-2 and scored 89 on the verbal reasoning. Now, I question whether that number is accurate, but a large discrepancy between his verbal and non-verbal reasoning seems accurate. He got an initial diagnosis of SPD and anxiety last year, and it's very possible he has ADHD. There's definite issues with working memory and emotional regulation. The school recommended the eval, and we would like the results to help us with grade placement next year.

 

So the psych has given us an option. 1. We can travel two hours away to have the full test done in English at a different (new and unknown) location. Or 2. We can have the test done at the place we did the intake which is 45 mins away, but it would only be the non-verbal portion, with working memory and processing speed evaluated in a symbolic test.

 

I'm leaning heavily towards option 1. Just get it done. Don't have to wonder about his verbal reasoning development. Everything will be there to discuss grade placement with the school.

 

But then, he brought his report card home today, and yeah, he got high scores in reading comp (in Dutch). Maybe he is a really good test taker? Maybe things finally clicked together for him? Maybe being in school got his butt in gear? (seriously, remember how I was wondering last year whether he had dysgraphia? The teacher says he has very good handwriting. hmm-mm.  :closedeyes: )

 

The real issue making us all hesitate about grade placement is social skills. We found a local social skills class (not through the psych, but an organization willing to work with the psych and our evals). I'm not sure what the psych can recommend if it turns out that his verbal reasoning actually is low. Is there even a clear relationship between verbal reasoning and social skills? Or am I turning myself in circles here?

 

But two hours to a strange city, a long test, two hours back. Ugh.  :mellow:  Would it be worth it, do you think?

[nature girl]

In my mind, it would probably make sense to travel for the evaluation. That way you'll have a full set of results and won't have to question whether there's anything you're missing. If I'm remembering right, he's 2e, no? If so, he might be finding a way to compensate for deficiencies so that they're not as obvious.

 

Could you make a mini-vacation out of it and stay the night, so that he's not traveling 2 hours before the test? I agree a 2 hour drive plus an eval is a lot for a kid to handle (the eval on its own is a lot!) and it might even artificially lower some of his results.

[Crimson Wife]

Can the English portion be done by having the English-speaking evaluator Skype/Facetime in? It's not ideal but depending on the specific nature of the assessment instrument chosen, it would still be valid.

[PeterPan]

Removing my not helpful remark.

Edited February 16, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[SarahW]

Yes, pretty sure he's 2e. He was doing algebra up on the whiteboard in the psychs office in between rolling somersaults across the floor and randomly interrupting with "hey watch this!"  :o

 

I've been wondering if there should be a 2e subforum here somewhere. I try to make a good judgment call where to post topics. But I know some of you here on LC are dealing with extremely challenging issues. Sometimes its awkward.

 

He was held back a year this year because of the language. So the grade level discussion is about skipping him back to age mates, or whether or needs to be skipped further. Or maybe not at all.

[SarahW]

Can the English portion be done by having the English-speaking evaluator Skype/Facetime in? It's not ideal but depending on the specific nature of the assessment instrument chosen, it would still be valid.

 

I don't know. The psych didn't share the name of the tests she was thinking of scheduling. And I don't want to look conniving by asking. 

 

 

Removing my not helpful remark.

 

Oh, too bad. Your remarks are usually helpful!

[PeterPan]

Yeah, I was sort of jovially asking if it was going to be two hours on a horse or something... Around here the two hours wouldn't be too much, and I do it all the time for things. But it's the freeway in a car. And there are people who don't like driving. Me, I put on Bride and Prejudice and just bang it out.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[SarahW]

Yeah, I was sort of jovially asking if it was going to be two hours on a horse or something... Around here the two hours wouldn't be too much, and I do it all the time for things. But it's the freeway in a car. And there are people who don't like driving. Me, I put on Bride and Prejudice and just bang it out.

 

 

 

Lol. Yes, that occurred to me after I posted, that for most boardies 2 hrs would be within the range of normal.

 

But here in NL, people really don't make long trips like that regularly. There's also the fact the gas is horribly expensive. And stopping at McDonald's on the way home is incredibly expensive, too.

 

And DH's family already thinks we're overdoing it. The social skills class itself is thought unnecessary. Going completely out of our way to get the eval done is even more strange. There's no way to hide these things from them, unfortunately.

 

 

I'm just trying to figure out whether the VR score will make a vital part of the overall diagnostic conclusion. Justify it in my own mind, I guess.

[saw]

We were in a similar situation in NL with DS, then 6. We went to a psych at one location (which I can share by pm) who did the Ravens. It was a disaster.

 

From what I know of ed psychs in NL, you have to be extremely extremely careful to get one who is good. For example, there is one who is known for giving unrealistically high scores. Also, if you are having your DS tested in English, then will it be a native speaker? Because you know how the Dutch are convinced their English is better than that of native speakers hah. Have you called the international schools to see whether they have someone to recommend? 

 

I would seriously consider having him tested in the UK if that is at all possible. We ended up with the Dutch ed psych telling us that DS was just high average and that we were pushy parents. We took DS to the US for more extensive testing and found out that he was in fact 2E. I can also ask people I know if they can recommend testers who could help, just send a pm.

 

[PeterPan]

Yeah, I hate to say it since I get that it's hard/complex, but I'm with Saw. I think you're going to get much more reliable results if the person evaluating him is a native speaker and doing the entire test process in his native language. If you do the testing and you get odd results because it wasn't his native language or because of whatever, THEN what? Then your family says no to a 2nd opinion? Then it's more expensive than if you had just waited and gone somewhere else.

 

I was in the NL, but that was 20+ years ago. I did an overnight in the airport because I couldn't afford to stay anywhere, lol. Poor college student and all that. I rode the train around and explored a bit on the tram. 

 

Ok, here's the problem I see, and I'll say it straight. You've got a student with social skills deficits, anxiety, SPD, and probably/possibly ADHD. With that list, ASD should also be on the table. The ADHD is a nothing diagnosis. They can tap-tap-tap on the computer and decide that. They give you questionaires and decide that. It's a nothing to diagnose. The REAL elephant in the room is whether there's something more than ADHD going on, and I don't see how a person speaking his non-native language is going to catch everything. He may come across totally different in one language than another. He may have a larger vocabulary in one or be more comfortable or turn on behaviors and mannerisms that aren't obvious in the 2nd language.

 

I don't know. I'm just saying that ADHD isn't the real concern. Even getting an accurate IQ score isn't. Like big whoop. What will it change? An 89 is within the average range. So he has average scores. The ped, at least in the US, could diagnose the ADHD and put him on meds. The real question is how many of those tick marks he has to have checked until this flips from ADHD + SPD + anxiety + social delays to autism.

 

What is the school wanting to come from the evals? If he has a typical IQ, which you already know, and ADHD (for which you could put him on meds), none of that means grade retention. What are they looking for? 

 

So I would slow down, interview the places, make sure they are good at evaluating autism, and make sure they have someone who speaks his native language as a native language, so they can really slow down and spend the time and catch things and do this right.

 

[SarahW]

I believe ASD is being investigated. At the intake the psych did ask CP some questions which I thought were to get a feeling for his Theory of Mind.

 

But this setup is odd, I think. We had the initial intake. The next thing is to do a lengthy interview with just DH and I. Then the intelligence research (onderzoek) for CP (this is what is getting 2 hours away), but that test is only scheduled to be 2 hrs long. And then another appointment with the psych with all of us. The psych did say that they could schedule more, if they thought more research was needed. We sent their office a written description of the issues we see with CP, but we haven't filled out any checklists or eval forms for him. Maybe they'll do those in the meeting with DH and I?

 

The English, yes, that's something that we're thinking about. I'm not sure what the situation is further away, the psych only said that her office knew that it was possible to get English language tests done there. We could ask.

 

Right now we're in a construction where these evals are being paid for by insurance/government something - mostly because the school sees that he has issues. Schools here take a more wholistic "learning styles" approach than in America, I think. So getting the IQ score is just gravy, they want to know if he can actually be pushed to have a harder workload, or if he just needs a lot more time to develop before then. Or if he needs a stimulant (I suspect he does, he told me yesterday that watching tv makes him feel relaxed and sleepy). We just need to pay for transport costs right now (including the 4 hrs roundtrip, which will be a pretty penny itself). So we're just seeing how this pans out right now. 

 

I did bring up the word "twice exceptional" during the intake, but I'm not sure the psych caught what I meant. Is there a particular Dutch word for 2e? During the parent-only meeting I can try to suss out how much they are looking at high-and-low. I think they are, the psych was very serious when I showed her the KBIT scores with the huge discrepancy between verbal and non-verbal.

 

Saw, I'll PM you with details. But we are way up north, and most options are in the south, I know.