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Academy appointment and application questions


retiredHSmom
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My son has decided to apply for Westpoint and USNA.  I have a few questions for anyone knowledgeable with the process.

 

1. He is eligible for a Vice-Presidential nomination as my husband is retired USAF.  I have two friends with children at one of the academies.  One told me that he should not apply for any other nominations as that leaves them available for kids who do not have a VP nomination.  The other told me that he should definitely apply for other nominations as they will make him more competitive.  Thoughts?  We live in  Northern VA so many military members around us and a very competitive  atmosphere.

 

2. A co-worker told my husband that if Senator #1 gives my son a nomination for Westpoint that it is only good for Westpoint and that he will need to apply to another senator for a nomination to USNA.  Is this correct?  How many senators and representatives should he apply to?

 

Thank You for any help you can give me.

 

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1. Your ds should apply to every nom for which he is eligible. This is a highly competitive process. Treat it like a competition.

 

2. A nomination from a member of Congress is for a specific academy. The member sets their own policy and application requirements. They may allow asking for multiple nominations, might ask applicants to rank the academies they are interested in, or might only allow students to apply for one mom.

 

This can vary by office, so your rep might have one policy and the senators have different policies. He can apply to your two senators and to your rep. You do not apply to multiple reps or to other states.

 

NOVA is very competitive.

Edited by Sebastian (a lady)
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Fwiw, I dont consider the recommendation to rely on the Presidential nom to be very good advice. I would verify other suggestions you get from that particular parent.

 

If students have multiple moms, it allows the academy extra flexibility in which nomination that student is charged to. This is a behind the scenes black bix process that the student cannot control except for applying for each possible nomination.

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Also the nom for children of "career*" military is the Presidential nom.

 

*Defined as >8 years if I remember correctly.

Okay, that is what I thought but when  googled it, I swear that form said VP.  My husband served 10 years in the Marine Corps reserves and 20 years in the AF so presidential it is.

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Thank You both for your assistance.  I had hoped to hear from you.  I remembered Margaret in CO username so I was confident that I could PM her f necessary but I had forgotten Sebastians username.

 

Okay question 2, my previous two college students were in situations where there was no need to submit class descriptions or book lists or even lists of extracurriculars.  Obviously those things will matter this time.  What kind of detail should I be including especially for extracurriculars?  Classes I am assuming class title, teacher, textbook and description along with a book list.  Extracurriculars? Should I list them by year or activity?  He has 405 assorted community service hours. Do I highlight some of the big activities out of that total?

 

Does this look like a good overview of one activity?

 

CyberPatriot VI CyberSecurity Competition team.  Met weekly from June 2015-February 2016, average 2 hours per week during this period. Team scored in the 50th percentile in open division competition.

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If this is for a current junior,

 

Did he apply for the summer seminar leadership programs. They may still be open.

 

I did not include extracurricular activities on the transcript. Instead those were input by the student as part of their application.

 

There is a counselor recommendation where you could recap some of the non-academic items.

 

For course descriptions look at the academy website. They do list the info they want to see.

 

In general, my descriptions had course name, location if it was an outside course, course code or name if I used a different name, how long it was (year or semester), what level it was, basic description, What credit it earned if it was an outside course,related test scores (AP, NLE, AMC), and book list.

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yes, he is a current junior. He has already submitted application for summer seminar at USNA and Westpoint. He is working on Coast Guard Academy now.

 

I was going to call admissions about the Counselor letter tomorrow. So the parent writes that?

It depends on how you are homeschooling. We were independent without an umbrella school or charter school. So I did everything that a counselor would have.

 

For USNA I had two emails, one to verify the student's activity record and another for a counselor recommendation. Some parents also do the teacher recommendation for math or English. I tried to make sure their were outside voices so ds used CC instructors where possible.

 

USCGA required more documents for the summer program application. Iirc They wanted a transcript and counselor rec for that app, not just for the full application.

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USNA guidance for homeschoolers. Be very familiar with guidance for brick and mortar school applicants.

 

https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/Steps-for-Admission/Home-Schooled-Candidates.php

 

I highly recommend the advice for homeschool applicants from USAFA. See Are the pdf at the bottom of the page. It brings a lot of info together in one place.

http://www.academyadmissions.com/admissions/advice-to-applicants/home-schoolers/

 

Better yet, have your ds do the research and tell you what is required.

Edited by Sebastian (a lady)
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Thank You both for your assistance.  I had hoped to hear from you.  I remembered Margaret in CO username so I was confident that I could PM her f necessary but I had forgotten Sebastians username.

 

Okay question 2, my previous two college students were in situations where there was no need to submit class descriptions or book lists or even lists of extracurriculars.  Obviously those things will matter this time.  What kind of detail should I be including especially for extracurriculars?  Classes I am assuming class title, teacher, textbook and description along with a book list.  Extracurriculars? Should I list them by year or activity?  He has 405 assorted community service hours. Do I highlight some of the big activities out of that total?

 

Does this look like a good overview of one activity?

 

CyberPatriot VI CyberSecurity Competition team.  Met weekly from June 2015-February 2016, average 2 hours per week during this period. Team scored in the 50th percentile in open division competition.

 

I was typing on my phone yesterday, so it was hard to give substantive responses.

 

One thing I had my ds do junior year was draft up a resume that included all of his high school activities.  He was able to then use this document for completing various applications.  There were not very many times where he submitted the resume itself that he used as a reference.  Instead, he used it to help complete apps that had boxes to check or drop down menus.  Some apps then had a comments box where he could elaborate.  He would write these in a document, then paste it into the app.

 

In most cases the activities records were something that he was inputing, not me in my counselor role.  Sometimes he was working within a character or word count restriction and had to learn to be concise but clear.  Drafting the comments in Word let dh and I look it over to see if it was as clear as it needed to be.

 

I did not include extracurricular activities in the transcript documents, but did refer to some of them in the counselor recommendation as they highlighted various character traits.  For example, I shared a couple examples from his time in scouting or as a swim coach to highlight his way of team building and being a role model for much younger students.  I did this in more of a narrative than in a list format, because I was trying to highlight the "so what" rather than just list activities.

 

One suggestion I've seen for applications it to think about and even make a list of all the qualities and experiences you want the admissions board to know when they make their decision.  Then review the application to make sure that it includes all that the student is trying to communicate. Some will come through on a transcript or course descriptions.  Some will come through in activities sections of an app.  Some will come through in an essay and some will come through in recommendations.  You don't have to repeat, unless you are doing it to intentionally highlight an area.

 

 

A couple comments from past posts that might have come across as negative, but were not intended as such.

Listen to the stories you hear from recent applicants and their families.  Listen to what you hear from graduates and service vets.  But keep in mind that many of them only know their own experience, and don't have wider insight into how admissions plays out across the spectrum of applicants.  Many factors go into an acceptance or rejection.  Some candidates with 570-610 SAT scores are accepted, while others with 700+ scores are rejected.  Geography and demographics do play a part, as does the offerings available to a student where he or she lives.  A student who lived in an area with lots of rigorous options for academics, sports and leadership who didn't seem to take advantage of the options may not fare as well as a student with what seems like lower stats, but who was really going full speed with what was on the table where he or she lived.  Northern Virginia has some talented and dedicated admissions liaison officers.  If you get a chance to go to an academy night it is worth your time, imo.  As soon as a student is declared an official candidate, he should receive contact info for the liaison assigned to him.  Use that person as a first resource for questions about the application.  

 

Secondly, I wasn't trying to be flip when I said that your ds should do as much research as possible.  You do need to think through how you as a counselor will package the academic portion of applications.  The college app season is pretty demanding paperwork wise.  You are smart to be getting a head start on this.  The work you put into making a good transcript and course descriptions now will buy you breathing space when the rest of the applications open.  But some of the questions are things that a student can find info on if they are working through the academy website.  Academies spend a lot of time trying to figure out if a candidate is really interested in 9+ years in the military or if they are looking for a "free" education at a highly ranked school.  When a student clearly hasn't taken the time to read the admissions pages on the academy website or do some general internet searching, it doesn't go down in their favor.  A student who can say, "I see this guidance here, but also that requirement there; and I need some help understanding how to provide the information the academy is seeking" is much more impressive than a student who asks a question available a couple clicks in from the main page.  (My personal pet peeve is students who have not read the Steps for Admission page.)  In other words, motivation is something that is being observed where possible.

 

Last comment (because this is already long): You and/or your ds should track documents submitted.  I know candidates who submitted requests for Presidential nominations months in advance of deadlines, only to hear later that admissions didn't have their request.  Keep copies.  I had a spreadsheet that tracked where we'd sent homeschool transcripts, counselor rec's and official cc transcripts.  In hind sight, I would put dates, not just an X for completion.  Doing it again, I'd also put down the USPS tracking numbers so I could go back and verify delivery.  It's hard to describe the sheer number of documents (including online recommendations) that are involved in the college application process.  It is really easy to lose track of important requirements.

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Thank You Sebastian for the detailed information.  My son is doing the research and is in for the long haul.  He will be the 4th generation to be a career military officer in our family (though no academy grads yet).  Your helps so far have been great.  This system is the second most convoluted system I have ever seen (with the first bring Tricare).  I do have 2 remaining questions if I haven't worn out your good will yet.

 

My son has read the academy nomination information pages for both our senators and our representative.  To be honest that have made the process less rather than more clear.  Their applications open in May and they say that their letters will usually go out around December but the first board meets in late summer/early fall, so how does that work?  Also according to one of our Senator' pages they need us to submit the blue, yellow or green card from the medical screening to the senators office but according to the USNA admissions site that physical occurs after you have been accepted as a candidate.  I am having trouble figuring out where to get on and off the merry-go-round.  A spreadsheet to track submissions is a brilliant idea

 

Secondly, I can not find any information about how many recommendation from who are required.  I realize that that information will come when we reach the right step in the process but we, like you, are independent homeschoolers and understanding what paperwork we need to come up with will help because we may have to stretch to fill the public school boxes.  You mentioned a math and english teacher.  My son takes chemistry at the community college but does math and english at home with me.  (he will take calculus at the community college but that won't be until the fall)  If the chemistry teacher could fill out a recommendation I would like my son to explain that he will be contacting him about that in the summer so that when the prof gets the request he is clear about who it is coming from and hopefully will be noting things to say during the semester instead of being caught off guard in July with a three-week deadline or something.

 

My sons original plan was to apply to Texas A&M for the corps of cadets and if he didn't get in he was going to enlist in the Marines for four years and then go to A&M on his GI Bill.  A family friend who was in admissions at USNA in the mid-late 90's and a guy from his scout troop who is a plebe at USNA right now sparked my son's interest and at times I think that we should have stuck with the first, easier plan.

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Thank You Sebastian for the detailed information.  My son is doing the research and is in for the long haul.  He will be the 4th generation to be a career military officer in our family (though no academy grads yet).  Your helps so far have been great.  This system is the second most convoluted system I have ever seen (with the first bring Tricare).  I do have 2 remaining questions if I haven't worn out your good will yet.

 

My son has read the academy nomination information pages for both our senators and our representative.  To be honest that have made the process less rather than more clear.  Their applications open in May and they say that their letters will usually go out around December but the first board meets in late summer/early fall, so how does that work?  Also according to one of our Senator' pages they need us to submit the blue, yellow or green card from the medical screening to the senators office but according to the USNA admissions site that physical occurs after you have been accepted as a candidate.  I am having trouble figuring out where to get on and off the merry-go-round.  A spreadsheet to track submissions is a brilliant idea

 

Secondly, I can not find any information about how many recommendation from who are required.  I realize that that information will come when we reach the right step in the process but we, like you, are independent homeschoolers and understanding what paperwork we need to come up with will help because we may have to stretch to fill the public school boxes.  You mentioned a math and english teacher.  My son takes chemistry at the community college but does math and english at home with me.  (he will take calculus at the community college but that won't be until the fall)  If the chemistry teacher could fill out a recommendation I would like my son to explain that he will be contacting him about that in the summer so that when the prof gets the request he is clear about who it is coming from and hopefully will be noting things to say during the semester instead of being caught off guard in July with a three-week deadline or something.

 

My sons original plan was to apply to Texas A&M for the corps of cadets and if he didn't get in he was going to enlist in the Marines for four years and then go to A&M on his GI Bill.  A family friend who was in admissions at USNA in the mid-late 90's and a guy from his scout troop who is a plebe at USNA right now sparked my son's interest and at times I think that we should have stuck with the first, easier plan.

 

So in somewhat random order:

-If your ds is interested in TAMU, I would suggest he also look at other senior military colleges like Virginia Tech, North Georgia University, Norwich, The Citadel and VMI.  They all have some kind of a corps of cadets.  I'm partial to Virginia Tech, but understand others may like the program offerings at other schools more.  

 

-He should investigate the college ROTC scholarship programs for any service he's interested in being commissioned in.  This is another commissioning program that can also pay for most of the cost of getting a degree.  It is not connected to the high school JROTC program.  The selection criteria is similar to that for an academy.

 

-What recommendations are acceptable will vary greatly.  Some will only want what they list (ex. might only accept math and English teachers from junior year).  Others will be more flexible and just state that they need 3 recommendations and one has to be from a teacher.  Some will substitute a science teacher for a math recommendation, but it will depend on the criteria for that program.  Your ds will need to contact each program individually for guidance.  [NB: This is an area that can change and that really depends on specific situations. What might have been the case for a student applying to Sen X five years ago might not be the situation for another student applying to Rep Y now.]

 

My suggestion is to find a way to have some outside voices in the recommendations.  That might be by asking to submit additional recommendations (ex. you do math and English but also submit an outside chemistry teacher rec) or by taking a summer course and asking for a recommendation, or by submitting a recommendation at the close of fall of senior year (having verified that this is acceptable).  But keep an eye on deadlines.  There are so many applicants, that they really don't have the ability to accept late documentation.  Asking for clarification on recommendations is something your DS should do, not you.

 

I'm not sure where you are seeing the timeline you ask about.  If you could give a link, I could tell you what I think it says.  However, your ds can also contact the staff at the congressional offices for clarification. Usually this is handled by a staffer at the local office (though it's possible that in NOVA there isn't as much distinction).

 

The timeline that I see in Hawaii goes something like:

May - July applications for nomination requests open

May applicants are informed by the academies if they were designated an official candidate. Students with low scores might have to submit higher SAT or ACT scores to be designated as candidates

September 15 - November 1 Deadline for Congressional nomination requests

Late November - Early December Interviews for Congressional nominations

Late December - January 31 Students are informed if they received a Congressional nomination

 

The dates vary by how they are set by each office.  Not everyone who applies will get an interview.  Not all who interview will get a nomination.

 

The mention of a first board convening in late summer/early fall might refer to admissions boards at the academies, rather than nominations boards.

 

A student will be sent information about scheduling a DODMERB exam after completing a significant part of their academy or ROTC nomination.  I think the trigger for an academy app is over 50% complete.  For ROTC it may be higher.  I'm not sure what the reference to DODMERB cards is.  That is something to ask that specific office.  [ETA: I think the reference to cards might be a dated reference from a period before exams were scheduled online.  Again, your ds should ask the office where he saw that requirement mentioned.]

Edited by Sebastian (a lady)
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-If your ds is interested in TAMU, I would suggest he also look at other senior military colleges like Virginia Tech, North Georgia University, Norwich, The Citadel and VMI.  They all have some kind of a corps of cadets.  I'm partial to Virginia Tech, but understand others may like the program offerings at other schools more.  

My husband and I both attended Texas A&M so my son thinks that he is partial to Texas but he has never lived there so...

 

We do live in VA but I have always joked that my children aren't allowed to attend VA Tech because it is too far to drive (over 4 hours) and too short to fly.  We are going to go visit there this spring and he will do an overnight with the corps.  Any particular reason you are partial?  The corps at VA Tech is about half the size of the corps at A&M. They are about the same age, I guess we really need to visit because I have trouble imagining that the tradition is anywhere as deep as at A&M and yet..

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-He should investigate the college ROTC scholarship programs for any service he's interested in being commissioned in.  This is another commissioning program that can also pay for most of the cost of getting a degree.  It is not connected to the high school JROTC program.  The selection criteria is similar to that for an academy.

 

 

I am sorry, that I didn't mention this but ROTC application is a given. My dad and husband were both ROTC students and we are more familiar with the application process there.  Somehow it seems much more clear.

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The mention of a first board convening in late summer/early fall might refer to admissions boards at the academies, rather than nominations boards.

 

Ahh, this might be my problem.  Yes, the boards I mentioned are admissions boards at the academies. I had assumed that you would need to have a nomination before the boards met.  Otherwise I figured that you could have a situation where the academy selected you but then you didn't get a nomination.

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My husband and I both attended Texas A&M so my son thinks that he is partial to Texas but he has never lived there so...

 

We do live in VA but I have always joked that my children aren't allowed to attend VA Tech because it is too far to drive (over 4 hours) and too short to fly.  We are going to go visit there this spring and he will do an overnight with the corps.  Any particular reason you are partial?  The corps at VA Tech is about half the size of the corps at A&M. They are about the same age, I guess we really need to visit because I have trouble imagining that the tradition is anywhere as deep as at A&M and yet..

 

I'm partial because one of my sons is a member of the VA Tech Corps of Cadets.  I've been very impressed with the Corps staff, cadet leadership and my son's experiences.  

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Ahh, this might be my problem.  Yes, the boards I mentioned are admissions boards at the academies. I had assumed that you would need to have a nomination before the boards met.  Otherwise I figured that you could have a situation where the academy selected you but then you didn't get a nomination.

 

Very few students will be offered a conditional offer of appointment (or letter of assurance) that says they will be offered an appointment so long as other requirements (like medical clearance and a nomination) are met.  What happens for most students is that they are not offered an appointment until after the slates of nominations are released.

 

Boards can meet and decide that certain students are qualified, but decide whom will receive offers of appointment.  There are about 3 times the number of students who are deemed qualified as the number that will get appointments.  This is usually a black box for the student.  They know their package is complete, but don't know if they have been reviewed until they receive a turn down letter or an offer of appointment.  It is very common that they won't know the results of their application until March or April.  

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I am sorry, that I didn't mention this but ROTC application is a given. My dad and husband were both ROTC students and we are more familiar with the application process there.  Somehow it seems much more clear.

 

Great.  I find that a majority of the students I talk to are not familiar with college ROTC programs.  

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I'm partial because one of my sons is a member of the VA Tech Corps of Cadets.  I've been very impressed with the Corps staff, cadet leadership and my son's experiences.  

My oldest is in his second year at VT, and we have also been very happy with the Corps and its leadership.  DS absolutely loves it there and is thriving.

 

We are also in NoVA.  Two years ago, my son got presidential nominations for both West Point and USAFA, and he was double-nominated by a senator and a representative for USAFA, which is really rare in district 10.  He received an appointment to West Point (with just the presidential nom)--and was rejected by USAFA.  He would have been a third generation cadet because my dad and grandpa were also grads.  So go figure, lol.  At the end, you really have to just leave it in the hands of God and trust that your son will end up where he is supposed to be!

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My oldest is in his second year at VT, and we have also been very happy with the Corps and its leadership.  DS absolutely loves it there and is thriving.

 

We are also in NoVA.  Two years ago, my son got presidential nominations for both West Point and USAFA, and he was double-nominated by a senator and a representative for USAFA, which is really rare in district 10.  He received an appointment to West Point (with just the presidential nom)--and was rejected by USAFA.  He would have been a third generation cadet because my dad and grandpa were also grads.  So go figure, lol.  At the end, you really have to just leave it in the hands of God and trust that your son will end up where he is supposed to be!

My daughter and I were just discussing that my son will end up where God wants him to be.

 

We have a family friend at VT right now in the corps. He is a freshman- your son may know him, Louis Hatcher.  Why did your son end up choosing VT over West Point?

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My daughter and I were just discussing that my son will end up where God wants him to be.

 

We have a family friend at VT right now in the corps. He is a freshman- your son may know him, Louis Hatcher.  Why did your son end up choosing VT over West Point?

Mainly because he wants to fly, and it would have been a risky gamble at West Point.  There just aren't very many slots.  He also got a 4 year type 1 AFROTC scholarship, plus other smaller scholarships, so that made VT a go.  He really liked the atmosphere at West Point, and if he hadn't been so set on flying, he would have gone there.  We have many friends who are USMA grads, and they are amazing people.  

 

I have really been impressed by the Commandant of Cadets at VT, a retired AF general.  I think he is really providing good leadership for the Corps.  Also (and I don't think this has been as much as issue at West Point as it has been at USAFA lately), I think VT is a little less tied to the whims of the military bureaucracy and the social agendas therein, which is nice.

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