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I was only in CC for a year as a first year homeschooler.  At the end of that year a bunch of the tutor moms decided the next year to start a TOG co-op. The level of animosity from some of those who stayed toward these ladies didn't make sense to me for a long time.  CC was not a good fit for us at all so we were not returning either. Now that I have more information I can see a lot of these things that people are saying--they definitely fed into that idea that you can't do this by yourself, that you absolutely need to be in the community, etc.  The ironic part was that we made almost no friends in CC in that year because all the moms were so tied up with tutoring you never got to know them.  Even my youngest, who is an extrovert, only made one real friend. 

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That's what we're seeing here, but I'm slowly finding more and more people who dropped out/avoided/fled from CC and still want a community. I'm hoping to just start with a park day around here soon. I met a couple of Moms at a CiRCE retreat last week who feel abandoned by the CC groundswell but still want the network/community of other homeschoolers. I'm the last person on earth who thought they'd be organizing anything because that's not my personality, but look like I might have to suck it up for a bit if I want a non-clique, and more importantly FREE place to hang out that has zero to do with joining a co-op or actually teaching anyone else's kids.

Just to give you some ideas our support group in FL was Christian but any denomination.

 

We had a weekly play day park day just for anyone to show up. Not at nap times!

 

We had a monthly Park day where we rented a huge park bench from the City under an overhang so the meeting would never be canceled. During that day the leaders would make announcements, sign up new members, ask for ideas and volunteers and hold the parties.

 

There was a party almost every other month and one mom was in charge of organizing. We had Halloween/dress up, thanksgiving (everyone made a cute craft for grandparents and shared turkey and stuffing), Christmas (kids went off with two moms far away enough that you could see them but not the craft and made a secret gift for mom!), Valentine’s Day (the usual candy and valentine exchange), st Patrick’s Day (prize

For the most green), Easter (again a craft),

 

There was a mom who collected box tops to raise money which mostly went to renting the pavilion and the craft materials

 

There wEre two or three moms signed up to organize field trips and there was a field trip almost every month all within two or three hour drive

 

There were two or three experienced moms who were counselors for help with homeschooling who would meet one on one for free. You had to sign up so they didn’t get inundated :)

 

There were monthly moms nights out and a lady that organized these- went out to dinner, painting, wine and cheese or whatever.

 

In my support groups in CA so much work went to planning the sports day and they were excellent but they take a LOT of volunteers and IMO wasn’t as fun as all the parties and field trips :)

 

Good luck!

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I love the turn this post is now taking: encouraging and empowering homeschooling moms to create community where you are! It can be so simple. We had a small co-op that was academic - we met together and just did parts of our homeschooling together. The only fee were a few supplies for the art/craft time and insurance for the co-op that the house church asked us to get. I love the idea of a purely social co-op as well. We can do this. This is why we decided to homeschool. For freedom. Still, with one in high school I'm also looking forward to the college days. Ha. He is, too.

Edited by Loolamay
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I love the turn this post is now taking: encouraging and empowering homeschooling moms to create community where you are! It can be so simple. We had a small co-op that was academic - we met together and just did parts of our homeschooling together. The only fee were a few supplies for the art/craft time and insurance for the co-op that the house church asked us to get. I love the idea of a purely social co-op as well. We can do this. This is why we decided to homeschool. For freedom. Still, with one in high school I'm also looking forward to the college days. Ha. He is, too.

I think this every week at CC......even continuing the CC model could be done so much easier and way less expensive. I see the Challenge tutors pretty overwhelmed trying to teach their own dc and preparing 6 strands to lead for Challenge each week and think we could all share the load and make it so much easier for everyone. To me, that would be real community. I even suggested this at a parent meeting when our tutor expressed the difficulty she was having and was met with stares like I had two heads. I hope some of the younger families figure this out and start forming other types of community again.

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I can tell you about our main support group/co-op. We have a support group side. It has 1 moms' night a month. (same day of each month.) We have one kid's day a month (the theme for year varies, but it is an hour and a half of learning time, then rotating through activities based on the subject, including a snack and a craft and hopefully a game. Same day each month) We have a field trip a month, based as much on the year's theme as possible and on the same day each month if possible.  Then we have one teen social night a month. Moms take turns organizing for this. The kid day takes the form of a party for Christmas and Valentine's day. And we have one dinner a semester where kids display work, do presentations, plays, or whatever we have been working on for the year. (So if is on careers, they might give a presentation on different careers. If it is a science themed year, we might do a science fair, etc.)  In past years we also had a monthly park day, but it was hard as most people had older kids, not just elementary kids and couldn't really take another day off midweek just to play.

 

Then we have added a co-op one day a week. But the theme of our group is support. Even if the co-op fell apart, the rest of what we do above would keep us meeting together.  

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What they offer is only a facsimile of classical education. It is a poor facsimile of neo-classical.  Unfortunately, most homeschoolers don't actually spend much time researching actual educational methodologies and instead read and accept other people's interpretations or just buy and use whatever is produced by a homeschooling publishing company.  By far, most "classical" education today is based on Dorothy Sayers. Personally, I am at a loss as to why her perspective is considered the go to definition for classical education.  But, whatever.  I am by far in the minority opinion on that one.

 

I think it's just because it was her essay that sparked the interest of some homeschoolers looking for options.

 

 I can't see DS being that impressed with CC in any case.  

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I did look into CC when we moved to a new state. Two main things kept me from it. #1–I absolutely hate having to sit in the foundations classes. It is soooo boring. #2–I still don’t believe most challenge directors can do a great job. I find it hard to homeschool my own children much less plan for six separate classes that I’m supposed to teach well. I tried just learning Latin with my oldest learner and I couldn’t even do that. I know there are some good tutors out there, but there are also some very bad ones.

 

 

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Today's homeschoolers don't want to do it alone.  They want co-teachers.  They want accountability.  They want preplanned, open and go.  They want to outsource.

 

Effort to create something from nothing, including community, is more work than simply paying thousands of dollars for something that is just there to join.

 

I think the 2 are symptoms of the same phenomena.

 

CC is not the only source of the message that you can't do it alone. When I was reading all the introductory books and all the blogs a few years ago, almost all of them tell you you can't do it on your own. You have to have a co-op or support group. I am probably doing it all wrong because we are on our own. I visited the local co-op and was unimpressed with the out of control classroom we observed. We live in a rural area and still do nap time, so I'm not going to drive an hour to the nearest city for other homeschool activities. Once nap time stops, I might think about doing homeschool activities, but right now, we are happy to be on our own. Though I have to say, this forum is a God-send and is crucial for my mental health.

 

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Well I think the support groups for younger kids can focus on park days and parties :) for older kids they can focus on some co-ops and academics and a little social stuff. So the needs change as the kids change- all the co ops with younger kids have seen are pretty much out of control. Once the kids hit high school and the parents are paying a ton of money then the co ops tend to have more respectful kids. :)

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CC is not the only source of the message that you can't do it alone. When I was reading all the introductory books and all the blogs a few years ago, almost all of them tell you you can't do it on your own. You have to have a co-op or support group. I am probably doing it all wrong because we are on our own. I visited the local co-op and was unimpressed with the out of control classroom we observed. We live in a rural area and still do nap time, so I'm not going to drive an hour to the nearest city for other homeschool activities. Once nap time stops, I might think about doing homeschool activities, but right now, we are happy to be on our own. Though I have to say, this forum is a God-send and is crucial for my mental health.

 

As someone who did this before the Internet, before home computers and printers, before cell phones, before easy to purchase curriculum.....I find it insulting to suggest that with the ease of finding available resources today that it is somehow less feasible than in the past. That quote on pg 55..... just no.

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I did look into CC when we moved to a new state. Two main things kept me from it. #1–I absolutely hate having to sit in the foundations classes. It is soooo boring. #2–I still don’t believe most challenge directors can do a great job. I find it hard to homeschool my own children much less plan for six separate classes that I’m supposed to teach well. I tried just learning Latin with my oldest learner and I couldn’t even do that. I know there are some good tutors out there, but there are also some very bad ones.

 

 

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This is what got me. I teach latin. I have worked very hard to learn latin alongside and ahead of my dds. I have taught in co-ops for years, formed study clubs, studied for national exams, read tons of books, watched tons of documentaries, etc. I have a very good plan for teaching latin through about Latin II. 

 

When I looked into CC for high school I was shocked that to teach I would have to teach all subjects. Um why would you want me to teach chemistry? I need someone who studied science in college or who has at least put in the time I have on Latin to teach it to my high schooler. I can't learn and teach all subjects well at that level. It isn't elementary school. I don't know anyone that can honestly. Though I do know they allow some outsourcing for some classes at higher levels in high school. But still, the main tutor has to give up some of her $ to pay them. 

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This is what got me. I teach latin. I have worked very hard to learn latin alongside and ahead of my dds. I have taught in co-ops for years, formed study clubs, studied for national exams, read tons of books, watched tons of documentaries, etc. I have a very good plan for teaching latin through about Latin II.

 

When I looked into CC for high school I was shocked that to teach I would have to teach all subjects. Um why would you want me to teach chemistry? I need someone who studied science in college or who has at least put in the time I have on Latin to teach it to my high schooler. I can't learn and teach all subjects well at that level. It isn't elementary school. I don't know anyone that can honestly. Though I do know they allow some outsourcing for some classes at higher levels in high school. But still, the main tutor has to give up some of her $ to pay them.

This is exactly what I’m seeing in Challenge. Our tutors are educated women who put a lot of time in preparing each week. However, it is very obvious they just don’t have the background knowledge and experience needed to present and explain all the strands to a group of high schoolers. They have the best intentions. But, my ds is doing an outside science class taught by a retired high school science teacher. The quality of instruction he is receiving in his class cannot even be compared to what I’ve seen in the science strand of CC. And is why dd won’t continue CC for high school. I feel my limited financial resources can be better used elsewhere.

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CC is not the only source of the message that you can't do it alone. When I was reading all the introductory books and all the blogs a few years ago, almost all of them tell you you can't do it on your own. You have to have a co-op or support group. I am probably doing it all wrong because we are on our own. I visited the local co-op and was unimpressed with the out of control classroom we observed. We live in a rural area and still do nap time, so I'm not going to drive an hour to the nearest city for other homeschool activities. Once nap time stops, I might think about doing homeschool activities, but right now, we are happy to be on our own. Though I have to say, this forum is a God-send and is crucial for my mental health.

 

You are doing it right if it works for your family. And that means your whole family, right down to that napping baby.

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That last paragraph on page 55 certainly echos a new-ish phenomenon/repeated phrase I keep reading from women in online CC and homeschool forums: "We wouldn't be able to homeschool without CC," "CC provides the accountability and mentorship I absolutely have to have to have to be able to homeschool at all." I'm hearing this so often now and it's almost word for word. Creepy.

 

 

That reminds me of an audiobook we just finished listening to:

 

"Dr. Elias Mako has devoted his life to New York City education and is an inspiration to every single one of us."

 

From: The Hypnotists, by Gordon Korman. It's a good book, and if you've read it, you should get why I'm putting that quote there. 

Edited by luuknam
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I think CC also pulls a new type of homeschool family in. When I started homeschooling, I mostly only met families who actually wanted to homeschool and had plans for how they’d do it. Some of them joined CC. There’s a newer subset, however who only homeschool because of CC. These would be former PS or private school families who never wanted to homeschool their kids, but think that now CC can do it for them. CC is cheaper than most private schools and supposedly more insulated from “the world†than public school, so with heavy recruitment in churches, it is attractive to families who wouldn’t have considered homeschool before.

 

These families never wanted to do it on their own. CC isn’t the only business drawing people in like this, but I think it’s the most cult-like. And, hey, if it works for someone, good for them.

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If you think about it, common core wanted to set up a national curriculum where kids could move from state to state and not have a break in learning. From what I can see, public schools still vary widely in what and how they teach. CC has made a product that can have a kid move anywhere there is a community and not miss anything because the curriculum is standard across the board.

 

 

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I think CC also pulls a new type of homeschool family in. When I started homeschooling, I mostly only met families who actually wanted to homeschool and had plans for how they’d do it. Some of them joined CC. There’s a newer subset, however who only homeschool because of CC. These would be former PS or private school families who never wanted to homeschool their kids, but think that now CC can do it for them. CC is cheaper than most private schools and supposedly more insulated from “the world†than public school, so with heavy recruitment in churches, it is attractive to families who wouldn’t have considered homeschool before.

 

These families never wanted to do it on their own. CC isn’t the only business drawing people in like this, but I think it’s the most cult-like. And, hey, if it works for someone, good for them.

You are on to something. I know a ton of homeschool families like this. "Anything but public" but terrified to go it alone. Shiny promises of success call them to the confidence exhibited in CC.

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If you think about it, common core wanted to set up a national curriculum where kids could move from state to state and not have a break in learning. From what I can see, public schools still vary widely in what and how they teach. CC has made a product that can have a kid move anywhere there is a community and not miss anything because the curriculum is standard across the board.

 

 

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I think you are right that perhaps CC seeks to be the Common Core of homeschooling. This saddens me because most of the homeschoolers I know or knew before CC wanted to avoid that one-size-fits-all approach. Perhaps we need new designations: "Old School Homeschool" and - to use an acronym we used in the info tech industry - "COTS Homeschool". (Commercial, Off The Shelf) That's it. CC is a commercial, off the shelf way to homeschool. Except...

 

So many - several who have commented here - don't want COTS homeschool. They want community, and CC is the only game in town. And once you've invested so much $$ in all the books and curriculum, you have no choice but to go with the COTS solution, which inadvertantly furthers and spreads that homeschool "common core" approach.

 

And, as much as CC tries to control the "product" it's almost never implemented uniformly. Just look at the different stories on here of people who have tutors or directors who go against CC's stated policies. Directors with kids in PS (while CC dictates that all directors must have all their kids enrolled in CC), Challenge tutors with little kids (while CC dictates that any Challenge tutor must have at least one kid within one year of Challenge). Try as they might to strong arm directors into submission, I don't think their business model, where nearly every worker is supposedly an "independent contractor", allows the corporation the teeth to force that uniformity. So they're not even doing homeschool common core well! Just like public school common core...

Edited by Loolamay
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  • 1 year later...

I've been meaning to share this here. There's a Facebook group now that openly discusses CC (without the censorship of nearly everywhere else but here).

It's called "Let Us Reason For Real".

www.facebook.com/groups/LetUsReasonForReal

Edited by Loolamay
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4 hours ago, nwahomeschoolmom said:

  Maybe I shouldn't buy the Foundations guide and should just take a picture of the board each week...Is that allowed?  🤔

 

If you have the 4th edition guide, there's a document with the memory work changes in the 5th ed. You could just write them in to your 4th ed.  Or just buy the mem work flashcards. Or just take a photo or copy it down by hand.  I wouldn't pay $100 for a guide.

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I am trying to run a social/enrichment homeschool group in my community and it is almost impossible. Most homeschoolers seem to believe they must have a co-op (CC or others). The co-ops are very religious and insular. I plan and plan and organize and it is almost impossible to find people to participate in park days and field trips. Frankly, it is very demoralizing. 

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22 minutes ago, NewIma said:

I am trying to run a social/enrichment homeschool group in my community and it is almost impossible. Most homeschoolers seem to believe they must have a co-op (CC or others). The co-ops are very religious and insular. I plan and plan and organize and it is almost impossible to find people to participate in park days and field trips. Frankly, it is very demoralizing. 

Unfortunately, that is the new face of homeschoolering. It wasn't always like that. There are moms out there who haven't jumped on the "I need to outsource everything" bandwagon, but they are in the minority. 

Fwiw, the majority doesn't know what they are missing. 😎 I wouldn't give up what I have with my kids for socialization for anything. The education my kids have received is why I get up and do this every day. It is why have made homeschooling my kids my career.  I hope you don't let other demoralize you. Remember that homeschooling is about your family and no one else's. 

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I have to confess, I never could teach all that my children learned. I could never in a million years give my children what the community gave my children. The martial arts instructor who gave my son opportunities to lead and teach. The violin teacher who spent 90 minutes on a 30 minute lesson. The harp teacher who battled to get the youth symphonies pedal harp into our home since we can't afford one. The Grandfather who taught building skills to a son while working on his cabin. The Grandmother who taught my daughter to quilt and sew clothes. The homeschooling mom that has more time than me giving rides to swim lessons for some children while I taught older children. The friends who gave rides and brought meals when I had to ditch my immediate family to take care of an elderly grandmother. 

 

I do most core classes, well, some have aged out. Well, 3 online classes total so far for 4 kids over 14 years.  I also deal with learning disabilities and some therapies and cook and clean from scratch because I'm not wealthy. I know some people on here say they can do everything but personally I guess I'm just not that smart and efficient. 

That being said the community I'm thinking of is filled with all sorts of people and ages doing all sorts of things. It isn't a business and it isn't filled with people all the same age studying all the same stuff. It's the sales person at the bike shop sharing info. The volunteers on the trail digging sign post holes with us. And the people who come over to work on our house with us after an earthquake does major damage.

I don't see how Classical Conversations could provide that. 

We get lonely at times but I have begun to realize we don't need to find people just like us and honestly, in the old days the community that I'm describing above was supposed to be more real than a fake school community. At least that was what I heard many older homeschoolers argue when told their children weren't socialized. 

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Several times over the years I have considered joining CC, coming very close last year. UNTIL... I realized it meant my child would be taking Physical science as a 10th grader if we followed their path but us starting in Challenge A as an 8th grader. . . and the nail in the coffin was after talking to several moms in the group trying to encourage me to join the program, I just kept hearing, if you love Jesus and want to homeschool you need to do this. . . . Honestly, it made me angry. The truth is I totally buy into Classical education, but I CAN and AM doing it successfully at home. And I can love Jesus and teach my kids to love Jesus . I know they are talking from a place of ignorance, but CC is perpetuating that myth and making moms feel like they can't homeschool without their help. Frustrating. We did a co-op last year. It was wonderful. I basically designed my year of what we wanted to cover, and invited other families to do it with us. It was great, but I was too burned out at the end to do it again. My oldest enjoys the peer competition in a "class" setting so we have settled on a couple of online classes to meet that need for her. . .  We outsource a few classes because she wants to and I enjoy having some pressure off in a few areas. . . we don't do it because I CAN'T teach them. We are part of a homeschool group and have 2X a month field trips.

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