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#351 dirty ethel rackham

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 08:35 PM

 

ETA: I should add that I absolutely agree that the community aspect of it is valuable and fills a deep need for many families! It did for us for two years! The local communities I've seen have been wonderful. It's only the corporate side and its tactics that I have real concerns about, not the local communities.

This is what really bugs me.  That community is being hijacked and monopolized and now comes at a price.  


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#352 Angie in VA

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 08:42 PM

Not drawing comparisons, merely pointing out that that verbiage reminds me of Scientology's billion year contract for their Sea Org!

 

Wow. Just wow. 


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#353 YodaGirl

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 09:19 PM

Of course I’m not saying or insinuating that a teaching certificate is required to do a good job teaching one’s child. Not at all. I’m sorry if it sounded that way. I absolutely do not think that. What I am referring to, and I’m talking about Challenge/high school level, is that most CC tutors are not equivalentally trained in the subject areas they are “teaching/tutoring” as public high school teachers. I’m sure some are. I’m also not comparing a parent teaching their own child and learning together. That’s a different scenario altogether.

ETA: what I am seeing at CC in Challenge, are parents relying on the tutors to teach the subjects, and the kids working on their own. I know that’s not what CC intends, but it is what I see happening in our community. The parents are overwhelmed by the subjects and amount of work and simply don’t have the time required to learn Latin, Logic, etc. with their students and teach younger siblings as well.


I can agree with those points.

#354 sangtarah

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 06:39 PM

Well, I found the newest magalog from CC today. It’s interesting to say the least. The word perfect is used quite a bit. The last paragraph of page 55 is especially eye-opening. Thoughts?

http://stallionpubli...&pkey=fuxaksnic

#355 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 07:22 PM

Well, I found the newest magalog from CC today. It’s interesting to say the least. The word perfect is used quite a bit. The last paragraph of page 55 is especially eye-opening. Thoughts?

http://stallionpubli...&pkey=fuxaksnic

 

Gag. 


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#356 Loolamay

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 07:25 PM

Well, I found the newest magalog from CC today. It’s interesting to say the least. The word perfect is used quite a bit. The last paragraph of page 55 is especially eye-opening. Thoughts?

http://stallionpubli...&pkey=fuxaksnic

That last paragraph on page 55 certainly echos a new-ish phenomenon/repeated phrase I keep reading from women in online CC and homeschool forums: "We wouldn't be able to homeschool without CC," "CC provides the accountability and mentorship I absolutely have to have to have to be able to homeschool at all." I'm hearing this so often now and it's almost word for word. Creepy.

But I'm stuck on pg. 22 with the pretty stellar test score numbers of Challenge grads (except for 4-year college attendance - 72% is nothing to brag about IMO). I was impressed until I read the fine print: all scores were self-reported from a survey and there were... Twenty-four (24) respondents. LOL.

Edited by Loolamay, 20 January 2018 - 07:29 PM.

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#357 Bluegoat

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 07:26 PM

This is what really bugs me.  That community is being hijacked and monopolized and now comes at a price.  

 

It's the logic of capitalism, everything becomes a commodity.


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#358 HSmomof2

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 09:57 PM

Well, I found the newest magalog from CC today. It’s interesting to say the least. The word perfect is used quite a bit. The last paragraph of page 55 is especially eye-opening. Thoughts?

http://stallionpubli...&pkey=fuxaksnic


Yuck. I remember the days when we had community and mentorship at park days, co-op, support groups......I didn’t have to spend thousands of dollars and be expected to follow someone else’s ‘formula’.
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#359 Calming Tea

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 11:31 PM

They will NEVER make the changes necessary because of the MLM model. Never
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#360 sangtarah

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 03:28 PM

That last paragraph on page 55 certainly echos a new-ish phenomenon/repeated phrase I keep reading from women in online CC and homeschool forums: "We wouldn't be able to homeschool without CC," "CC provides the accountability and mentorship I absolutely have to have to have to be able to homeschool at all." I'm hearing this so often now and it's almost word for word. Creepy.

But I'm stuck on pg. 22 with the pretty stellar test score numbers of Challenge grads (except for 4-year college attendance - 72% is nothing to brag about IMO). I was impressed until I read the fine print: all scores were self-reported from a survey and there were... Twenty-four (24) respondents. LOL.


24 responses is hardly basis for bragging! I didn’t notice that before. It makes the whole magazine feel more...fake, dishonest, misleading.
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#361 EmseB

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 05:39 PM

Well, I found the newest magalog from CC today. It’s interesting to say the least. The word perfect is used quite a bit. The last paragraph of page 55 is especially eye-opening. Thoughts?

http://stallionpubli...&pkey=fuxaksnic


Wow.

You can teach your child at home, but if you're doing it at home you're doing it wrong.

Did I get that right?
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#362 Calming Tea

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 07:51 PM

Yes and before CC came along the support groups were the community and they were huge. Cc isn’t the only community!!
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#363 Calming Tea

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 07:56 PM

24 is such a ridiculously small number!!!! That is so wrong.

I’m not saying I’d never join it or it’s bad- just that I can’t stand the marketing strategy of this company!
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#364 HSmomof2

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 09:20 PM

Yes and before CC came along the support groups were the community and they were huge. Cc isn’t the only community!!


Except, sadly, it is the only community now in many places.
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#365 Calming Tea

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:29 AM

Except, sadly, it is the only community now in many places.

I know I know!! That's why I hate CC.

 

And the sad thing is, usually CC comes, CC grows, the support groups disappear, then CC dwindles and shrinks quite a bit, and now the support group no longer exists and it's not easy to build it back up to what it was.  In a healthy support group there are five or six ladies taking main roles that they inherited, and then usually they add to that role and make things a little bit better year by year.  ANd those ladies each usually have a few friends helping them.

 

You can't just jump in and replace all that in one year, and most people wouldn't know where to start.

 

It's definitely sad.


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#366 Calming Tea

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:29 AM

Except, sadly, it is the only community now in many places.

I know I know!! That's why I hate CC.

 

And the sad thing is, usually CC comes, CC grows, the support groups disappear, then CC dwindles and shrinks quite a bit, and now the support group no longer exists and it's not easy to build it back up to what it was.  In a healthy support group there are five or six ladies taking main roles that they inherited, and then usually they add to that role and make things a little bit better year by year.  ANd those ladies each usually have a few friends helping them.

 

You can't just jump in and replace all that in one year, and most people wouldn't know where to start.

 

It's definitely sad.


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#367 Loolamay

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:38 AM

I know I know!! That's why I hate CC.
 
And the sad thing is, usually CC comes, CC grows, the support groups disappear, then CC dwindles and shrinks quite a bit, and now the support group no longer exists and it's not easy to build it back up to what it was.  In a healthy support group there are five or six ladies taking main roles that they inherited, and then usually they add to that role and make things a little bit better year by year.  ANd those ladies each usually have a few friends helping them.
 
You can't just jump in and replace all that in one year, and most people wouldn't know where to start.
 
It's definitely sad.


This is also my main concern with CC - other than the stories of spiritual and emotional abuse at the hands of CC "reps" (managers) - that it is changing in the face of homeschooling for the worse in so many areas. The desperation for community is so real and in many places now CC is the only choice. It has truly become, as Leigh Bortins said a couple of years ago in an article in Pilot online magazine: "The Walmart of education". (http://www.thepilot....e9366ea8dd.html) And I even like Walmart. I just don't want it to be my only choice. It feels like CC is becoming a Christian homeschool community corporate monopoly.
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#368 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:59 AM

The desperation for community is so real and in many places now CC is the only choice.

 

Today's homeschoolers don't want to do it alone.  They want co-teachers.  They want accountability.  They want preplanned, open and go.  They want to outsource.

 

Effort to create something from nothing, including community, is more work than simply paying thousands of dollars for something that is just there to join.

 

I think the 2 are symptoms of the same phenomena.


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#369 Penelope

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:02 AM

Oh wow, the Walmart of education. I am guessing that was an off-the-cuff comment, but that is how we should think of this company, as Big Box education? Do they realize what a negative image this presents? In so many ways, but even to the driving out of the “competition”.


This quote struck me: "I really love the whole classical approach," said Leigh, who has taught it to all four of her sons. "But you have to do it with other people. You can't do it by yourself."

They have a rigid definition of “classical education”, which is fine. It might well be true that we really can’t recreate a true classical education at home, but if that is true, it is not going to be any more doable taught by other parents who have no more experience in the tradition of classical ed than we do.

Cc obviously fills a need for many people right now, and that’s great for them. I have nothing but respect for families involved in CC on the ground, doing the best they can for their children. I dont know what I think of a lot of what is in this thread; I’m skeptical. But I was very struck by this article.

Edited by Penelope, 23 January 2018 - 11:09 AM.

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#370 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:16 AM

Oh wow, the Walmart of education. I am guessing that was an off-the-cuff comment, but that is how we should think of this company, as Big Box education? Do they realize what a negative image this presents?


This quote struck me: "I really love the whole classical approach," said Leigh, who has taught it to all four of her sons. "But you have to do it with other people. You can't do it by yourself."

They have a rigid definition of “classical education”, which is fine. It might well be true that we really can’t recreate a true classical education at home, but if that is true, it is not going to be any more doable taught by other parents who have no more experience in the tradition of classical ed than we do.

 

What they offer is only a facsimile of classical education. It is a poor facsimile of neo-classical.  Unfortunately, most homeschoolers don't actually spend much time researching actual educational methodologies and instead read and accept other people's interpretations or just buy and use whatever is produced by a homeschooling publishing company.  By far, most "classical" education today is based on Dorothy Sayers. Personally, I am at a loss as to why her perspective is considered the go to definition for classical education.  But, whatever.  I am by far in the minority opinion on that one.


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#371 texasmom33

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:50 AM

I know I know!! That's why I hate CC.

 

And the sad thing is, usually CC comes, CC grows, the support groups disappear, then CC dwindles and shrinks quite a bit, and now the support group no longer exists and it's not easy to build it back up to what it was.  In a healthy support group there are five or six ladies taking main roles that they inherited, and then usually they add to that role and make things a little bit better year by year.  ANd those ladies each usually have a few friends helping them.

 

You can't just jump in and replace all that in one year, and most people wouldn't know where to start.

 

It's definitely sad.

 

That's what we're seeing here, but I'm slowly finding more and more people who dropped out/avoided/fled from CC and still want a community. I'm hoping to just start with a park day around here soon. I met a couple of Moms at a CiRCE retreat last week who feel abandoned by the CC groundswell but still want the network/community of other homeschoolers. I'm the last person on earth who thought they'd be organizing anything because that's not my personality, but look like I might have to suck it up for a bit if I want a non-clique, and more importantly FREE place to hang out that has zero to do with joining a co-op or actually teaching anyone else's kids. 


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#372 HSmomof2

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:52 AM

Oh wow, the Walmart of education. I am guessing that was an off-the-cuff comment, but that is how we should think of this company, as Big Box education? Do they realize what a negative image this presents? In so many ways, but even to the driving out of the “competition”.


This quote struck me: "I really love the whole classical approach," said Leigh, who has taught it to all four of her sons. "But you have to do it with other people. You can't do it by yourself."

They have a rigid definition of “classical education”, which is fine. It might well be true that we really can’t recreate a true classical education at home, but if that is true, it is not going to be any more doable taught by other parents who have no more experience in the tradition of classical ed than we do.

Cc obviously fills a need for many people right now, and that’s great for them. I have nothing but respect for families involved in CC on the ground, doing the best they can for their children. I dont know what I think of a lot of what is in this thread; I’m skeptical. But I was very struck by this article.


CC fills a need for community for many families, because there are often no other options anymore. Many of the younger families know of no other way to homeschool and really believe CC is the only way. We came into CC late in the game, only for community after the big co-op in our area closed because a few of the co-op directors became CC directors and took many co-op members with them. I’m not overly impressed with the academics of CC, it’s ok but not as wonderful as it appears in the catalog. We only have a few years left of homeschooling, and frankly I will be relieved and happy for my dc to move on to college, I back to work, and be done with this whole homeschooling thing.

#373 cintinative

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:59 AM

I was only in CC for a year as a first year homeschooler.  At the end of that year a bunch of the tutor moms decided the next year to start a TOG co-op. The level of animosity from some of those who stayed toward these ladies didn't make sense to me for a long time.  CC was not a good fit for us at all so we were not returning either. Now that I have more information I can see a lot of these things that people are saying--they definitely fed into that idea that you can't do this by yourself, that you absolutely need to be in the community, etc.  The ironic part was that we made almost no friends in CC in that year because all the moms were so tied up with tutoring you never got to know them.  Even my youngest, who is an extrovert, only made one real friend. 


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#374 Calming Tea

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:08 PM

That's what we're seeing here, but I'm slowly finding more and more people who dropped out/avoided/fled from CC and still want a community. I'm hoping to just start with a park day around here soon. I met a couple of Moms at a CiRCE retreat last week who feel abandoned by the CC groundswell but still want the network/community of other homeschoolers. I'm the last person on earth who thought they'd be organizing anything because that's not my personality, but look like I might have to suck it up for a bit if I want a non-clique, and more importantly FREE place to hang out that has zero to do with joining a co-op or actually teaching anyone else's kids.


Just to give you some ideas our support group in FL was Christian but any denomination.

We had a weekly play day park day just for anyone to show up. Not at nap times!

We had a monthly Park day where we rented a huge park bench from the City under an overhang so the meeting would never be canceled. During that day the leaders would make announcements, sign up new members, ask for ideas and volunteers and hold the parties.

There was a party almost every other month and one mom was in charge of organizing. We had Halloween/dress up, thanksgiving (everyone made a cute craft for grandparents and shared turkey and stuffing), Christmas (kids went off with two moms far away enough that you could see them but not the craft and made a secret gift for mom!), Valentine’s Day (the usual candy and valentine exchange), st Patrick’s Day (prize
For the most green), Easter (again a craft),

There was a mom who collected box tops to raise money which mostly went to renting the pavilion and the craft materials

There wEre two or three moms signed up to organize field trips and there was a field trip almost every month all within two or three hour drive

There were two or three experienced moms who were counselors for help with homeschooling who would meet one on one for free. You had to sign up so they didn’t get inundated :)

There were monthly moms nights out and a lady that organized these- went out to dinner, painting, wine and cheese or whatever.

In my support groups in CA so much work went to planning the sports day and they were excellent but they take a LOT of volunteers and IMO wasn’t as fun as all the parties and field trips :)

Good luck!
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#375 Loolamay

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:18 PM

I love the turn this post is now taking: encouraging and empowering homeschooling moms to create community where you are! It can be so simple. We had a small co-op that was academic - we met together and just did parts of our homeschooling together. The only fee were a few supplies for the art/craft time and insurance for the co-op that the house church asked us to get. I love the idea of a purely social co-op as well. We can do this. This is why we decided to homeschool. For freedom. Still, with one in high school I'm also looking forward to the college days. Ha. He is, too.

Edited by Loolamay, 23 January 2018 - 12:19 PM.

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#376 texasmom33

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:29 PM

Just to give you some ideas our support group in FL was Christian but any denomination.

We had a weekly play day park day just for anyone to show up. Not at nap times!

We had a monthly Park day where we rented a huge park bench from the City under an overhang so the meeting would never be canceled. During that day the leaders would make announcements, sign up new members, ask for ideas and volunteers and hold the parties.

There was a party almost every other month and one mom was in charge of organizing. We had Halloween/dress up, thanksgiving (everyone made a cute craft for grandparents and shared turkey and stuffing), Christmas (kids went off with two moms far away enough that you could see them but not the craft and made a secret gift for mom!), Valentine’s Day (the usual candy and valentine exchange), st Patrick’s Day (prize
For the most green), Easter (again a craft),

There was a mom who collected box tops to raise money which mostly went to renting the pavilion and the craft materials

There wEre two or three moms signed up to organize field trips and there was a field trip almost every month all within two or three hour drive

There were two or three experienced moms who were counselors for help with homeschooling who would meet one on one for free. You had to sign up so they didn’t get inundated :)

There were monthly moms nights out and a lady that organized these- went out to dinner, painting, wine and cheese or whatever.

In my support groups in CA so much work went to planning the sports day and they were excellent but they take a LOT of volunteers and IMO wasn’t as fun as all the parties and field trips :)

Good luck!

 

Thank you- this is helpful! 


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#377 HSmomof2

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:30 PM

I love the turn this post is now taking: encouraging and empowering homeschooling moms to create community where you are! It can be so simple. We had a small co-op that was academic - we met together and just did parts of our homeschooling together. The only fee were a few supplies for the art/craft time and insurance for the co-op that the house church asked us to get. I love the idea of a purely social co-op as well. We can do this. This is why we decided to homeschool. For freedom. Still, with one in high school I'm also looking forward to the college days. Ha. He is, too.


I think this every week at CC......even continuing the CC model could be done so much easier and way less expensive. I see the Challenge tutors pretty overwhelmed trying to teach their own dc and preparing 6 strands to lead for Challenge each week and think we could all share the load and make it so much easier for everyone. To me, that would be real community. I even suggested this at a parent meeting when our tutor expressed the difficulty she was having and was met with stares like I had two heads. I hope some of the younger families figure this out and start forming other types of community again.
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#378 2_girls_mommy

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 01:39 PM

I can tell you about our main support group/co-op. We have a support group side. It has 1 moms' night a month. (same day of each month.) We have one kid's day a month (the theme for year varies, but it is an hour and a half of learning time, then rotating through activities based on the subject, including a snack and a craft and hopefully a game. Same day each month) We have a field trip a month, based as much on the year's theme as possible and on the same day each month if possible.  Then we have one teen social night a month. Moms take turns organizing for this. The kid day takes the form of a party for Christmas and Valentine's day. And we have one dinner a semester where kids display work, do presentations, plays, or whatever we have been working on for the year. (So if is on careers, they might give a presentation on different careers. If it is a science themed year, we might do a science fair, etc.)  In past years we also had a monthly park day, but it was hard as most people had older kids, not just elementary kids and couldn't really take another day off midweek just to play.

 

Then we have added a co-op one day a week. But the theme of our group is support. Even if the co-op fell apart, the rest of what we do above would keep us meeting together.  


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#379 Bluegoat

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 02:35 PM

What they offer is only a facsimile of classical education. It is a poor facsimile of neo-classical.  Unfortunately, most homeschoolers don't actually spend much time researching actual educational methodologies and instead read and accept other people's interpretations or just buy and use whatever is produced by a homeschooling publishing company.  By far, most "classical" education today is based on Dorothy Sayers. Personally, I am at a loss as to why her perspective is considered the go to definition for classical education.  But, whatever.  I am by far in the minority opinion on that one.

 

I think it's just because it was her essay that sparked the interest of some homeschoolers looking for options.

 

 I can't see DS being that impressed with CC in any case.  


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#380 texasmom33

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 03:02 PM

I was only in CC for a year as a first year homeschooler.  At the end of that year a bunch of the tutor moms decided the next year to start a TOG co-op. The level of animosity from some of those who stayed toward these ladies didn't make sense to me for a long time.  CC was not a good fit for us at all so we were not returning either. Now that I have more information I can see a lot of these things that people are saying--they definitely fed into that idea that you can't do this by yourself, that you absolutely need to be in the community, etc.  The ironic part was that we made almost no friends in CC in that year because all the moms were so tied up with tutoring you never got to know them.  Even my youngest, who is an extrovert, only made one real friend. 

 

I like so much of what I read online of TOG co-ops. The presentations, the regular community without a heavy time engagement, large age spreads; but the only one within a 50 mile radius of us has the absolute strictest statement of faith I've ever seen, a super strict uniform based dress code, and some other policies I simply can't get on board with. I will say the CC community was far more open and accepting as far as all of that- and their handbook as far as behavior, expectations etc. was the best I've ever seen for a homeschool group. It was mostly common sense and respectful without being too much. But then the actual program content sucked (imo :) ). And the kids ran absolutely wild. Maybe I'm picky, but I can't find a happy medium. 

 

That's why I think I'm only aiming for a social park group right now. I really don't care what method anyone uses to teach their kids, I don't care what church they go to- or if they go to church, if their hair is purple or blue, if they have a TV or don't.......I understand why people get to a point with all of the rule making, usually (I'm assuming) due to bad experiences as I've seen on this board. But at what point do all the rules run everyone off and isolate them? On the other hand, I'll probably find myself wishing there were rules. But beyond, "don't drop your kids off and expect any of us to watch them," I'm not sure what they'd be. I mean, parks have rules. I would hope people wouldn't be obnoxious but that's hard to legislate and if you're at a public place there isn't much you can do about it anyway. I am probably the worst person on earth to be attempting this.  :001_rolleyes:


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#381 bethben

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 04:09 PM

I did look into CC when we moved to a new state. Two main things kept me from it. #1–I absolutely hate having to sit in the foundations classes. It is soooo boring. #2–I still don’t believe most challenge directors can do a great job. I find it hard to homeschool my own children much less plan for six separate classes that I’m supposed to teach well. I tried just learning Latin with my oldest learner and I couldn’t even do that. I know there are some good tutors out there, but there are also some very bad ones.


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#382 knitgrl

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 05:34 PM

Today's homeschoolers don't want to do it alone.  They want co-teachers.  They want accountability.  They want preplanned, open and go.  They want to outsource.

 

Effort to create something from nothing, including community, is more work than simply paying thousands of dollars for something that is just there to join.

 

I think the 2 are symptoms of the same phenomena.

 

CC is not the only source of the message that you can't do it alone. When I was reading all the introductory books and all the blogs a few years ago, almost all of them tell you you can't do it on your own. You have to have a co-op or support group. I am probably doing it all wrong because we are on our own. I visited the local co-op and was unimpressed with the out of control classroom we observed. We live in a rural area and still do nap time, so I'm not going to drive an hour to the nearest city for other homeschool activities. Once nap time stops, I might think about doing homeschool activities, but right now, we are happy to be on our own. Though I have to say, this forum is a God-send and is crucial for my mental health.
 


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#383 Calming Tea

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 05:38 PM

Well I think the support groups for younger kids can focus on park days and parties :) for older kids they can focus on some co-ops and academics and a little social stuff. So the needs change as the kids change- all the co ops with younger kids have seen are pretty much out of control. Once the kids hit high school and the parents are paying a ton of money then the co ops tend to have more respectful kids. :)
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#384 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 05:45 PM

CC is not the only source of the message that you can't do it alone. When I was reading all the introductory books and all the blogs a few years ago, almost all of them tell you you can't do it on your own. You have to have a co-op or support group. I am probably doing it all wrong because we are on our own. I visited the local co-op and was unimpressed with the out of control classroom we observed. We live in a rural area and still do nap time, so I'm not going to drive an hour to the nearest city for other homeschool activities. Once nap time stops, I might think about doing homeschool activities, but right now, we are happy to be on our own. Though I have to say, this forum is a God-send and is crucial for my mental health.


As someone who did this before the Internet, before home computers and printers, before cell phones, before easy to purchase curriculum.....I find it insulting to suggest that with the ease of finding available resources today that it is somehow less feasible than in the past. That quote on pg 55..... just no.
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#385 2_girls_mommy

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 06:21 PM

I did look into CC when we moved to a new state. Two main things kept me from it. #1–I absolutely hate having to sit in the foundations classes. It is soooo boring. #2–I still don’t believe most challenge directors can do a great job. I find it hard to homeschool my own children much less plan for six separate classes that I’m supposed to teach well. I tried just learning Latin with my oldest learner and I couldn’t even do that. I know there are some good tutors out there, but there are also some very bad ones.


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This is what got me. I teach latin. I have worked very hard to learn latin alongside and ahead of my dds. I have taught in co-ops for years, formed study clubs, studied for national exams, read tons of books, watched tons of documentaries, etc. I have a very good plan for teaching latin through about Latin II. 

 

When I looked into CC for high school I was shocked that to teach I would have to teach all subjects. Um why would you want me to teach chemistry? I need someone who studied science in college or who has at least put in the time I have on Latin to teach it to my high schooler. I can't learn and teach all subjects well at that level. It isn't elementary school. I don't know anyone that can honestly. Though I do know they allow some outsourcing for some classes at higher levels in high school. But still, the main tutor has to give up some of her $ to pay them. 


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#386 HSmomof2

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 02:54 PM

This is what got me. I teach latin. I have worked very hard to learn latin alongside and ahead of my dds. I have taught in co-ops for years, formed study clubs, studied for national exams, read tons of books, watched tons of documentaries, etc. I have a very good plan for teaching latin through about Latin II.

When I looked into CC for high school I was shocked that to teach I would have to teach all subjects. Um why would you want me to teach chemistry? I need someone who studied science in college or who has at least put in the time I have on Latin to teach it to my high schooler. I can't learn and teach all subjects well at that level. It isn't elementary school. I don't know anyone that can honestly. Though I do know they allow some outsourcing for some classes at higher levels in high school. But still, the main tutor has to give up some of her $ to pay them.


This is exactly what I’m seeing in Challenge. Our tutors are educated women who put a lot of time in preparing each week. However, it is very obvious they just don’t have the background knowledge and experience needed to present and explain all the strands to a group of high schoolers. They have the best intentions. But, my ds is doing an outside science class taught by a retired high school science teacher. The quality of instruction he is receiving in his class cannot even be compared to what I’ve seen in the science strand of CC. And is why dd won’t continue CC for high school. I feel my limited financial resources can be better used elsewhere.
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#387 Margaret in CO

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 09:04 PM

I just might run out of likes here, ladies! You've hit the nail on the head about "Classical Clique"! They've convinced most moms here that they're either not Christian or educated enough or... I still don't get the "let's spend $1000" gig to hire women who have 1) been teaching far fewer years than I and 2) have far less education! And the CC thing has decimated our community. It simply doesn't exist any more. We have a woman whose family just moved out of the valley because she can't find community, and another family who is not moving here, for the same reason. I had to explain to her that what she had in CO Springs simply isn't here. If you want the friends and activities, Classical Clique is your only choice. 


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#388 scholastica

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 05:12 PM

CC is not the only source of the message that you can't do it alone. When I was reading all the introductory books and all the blogs a few years ago, almost all of them tell you you can't do it on your own. You have to have a co-op or support group. I am probably doing it all wrong because we are on our own. I visited the local co-op and was unimpressed with the out of control classroom we observed. We live in a rural area and still do nap time, so I'm not going to drive an hour to the nearest city for other homeschool activities. Once nap time stops, I might think about doing homeschool activities, but right now, we are happy to be on our own. Though I have to say, this forum is a God-send and is crucial for my mental health.


You are doing it right if it works for your family. And that means your whole family, right down to that napping baby.
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#389 luuknam

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 05:12 PM

That last paragraph on page 55 certainly echos a new-ish phenomenon/repeated phrase I keep reading from women in online CC and homeschool forums: "We wouldn't be able to homeschool without CC," "CC provides the accountability and mentorship I absolutely have to have to have to be able to homeschool at all." I'm hearing this so often now and it's almost word for word. Creepy.

 

 

That reminds me of an audiobook we just finished listening to:

 

"Dr. Elias Mako has devoted his life to New York City education and is an inspiration to every single one of us."

 

From: The Hypnotists, by Gordon Korman. It's a good book, and if you've read it, you should get why I'm putting that quote there. 


Edited by luuknam, 26 January 2018 - 05:13 PM.


#390 Paige

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:45 PM

I think CC also pulls a new type of homeschool family in. When I started homeschooling, I mostly only met families who actually wanted to homeschool and had plans for how they’d do it. Some of them joined CC. There’s a newer subset, however who only homeschool because of CC. These would be former PS or private school families who never wanted to homeschool their kids, but think that now CC can do it for them. CC is cheaper than most private schools and supposedly more insulated from “the world” than public school, so with heavy recruitment in churches, it is attractive to families who wouldn’t have considered homeschool before.

These families never wanted to do it on their own. CC isn’t the only business drawing people in like this, but I think it’s the most cult-like. And, hey, if it works for someone, good for them.
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#391 texasmom33

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:03 PM

I think CC also pulls a new type of homeschool family in. When I started homeschooling, I mostly only met families who actually wanted to homeschool and had plans for how they’d do it. Some of them joined CC. There’s a newer subset, however who only homeschool because of CC. These would be former PS or private school families who never wanted to homeschool their kids, but think that now CC can do it for them. CC is cheaper than most private schools and supposedly more insulated from “the world” than public school, so with heavy recruitment in churches, it is attractive to families who wouldn’t have considered homeschool before.

These families never wanted to do it on their own. CC isn’t the only business drawing people in like this, but I think it’s the most cult-like. And, hey, if it works for someone, good for them.


Wow- I’ve never thought about it that way, but I think you’re really on to something. That makes a lot of sense. They’re getting the “anything but public school” crowd who aren’t really homeschoolers- simply anti-public schoolers who can’t afford private school. That’s definitely a growing market around this area.

#392 bethben

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 09:25 AM

If you think about it, common core wanted to set up a national curriculum where kids could move from state to state and not have a break in learning. From what I can see, public schools still vary widely in what and how they teach. CC has made a product that can have a kid move anywhere there is a community and not miss anything because the curriculum is standard across the board.


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#393 nixpix5

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 06:18 PM

I think CC also pulls a new type of homeschool family in. When I started homeschooling, I mostly only met families who actually wanted to homeschool and had plans for how they’d do it. Some of them joined CC. There’s a newer subset, however who only homeschool because of CC. These would be former PS or private school families who never wanted to homeschool their kids, but think that now CC can do it for them. CC is cheaper than most private schools and supposedly more insulated from “the world” than public school, so with heavy recruitment in churches, it is attractive to families who wouldn’t have considered homeschool before.

These families never wanted to do it on their own. CC isn’t the only business drawing people in like this, but I think it’s the most cult-like. And, hey, if it works for someone, good for them.


You are on to something. I know a ton of homeschool families like this. "Anything but public" but terrified to go it alone. Shiny promises of success call them to the confidence exhibited in CC.
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#394 Loolamay

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 09:29 AM

If you think about it, common core wanted to set up a national curriculum where kids could move from state to state and not have a break in learning. From what I can see, public schools still vary widely in what and how they teach. CC has made a product that can have a kid move anywhere there is a community and not miss anything because the curriculum is standard across the board.


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I think you are right that perhaps CC seeks to be the Common Core of homeschooling. This saddens me because most of the homeschoolers I know or knew before CC wanted to avoid that one-size-fits-all approach. Perhaps we need new designations: "Old School Homeschool" and - to use an acronym we used in the info tech industry - "COTS Homeschool". (Commercial, Off The Shelf) That's it. CC is a commercial, off the shelf way to homeschool. Except...

So many - several who have commented here - don't want COTS homeschool. They want community, and CC is the only game in town. And once you've invested so much $$ in all the books and curriculum, you have no choice but to go with the COTS solution, which inadvertantly furthers and spreads that homeschool "common core" approach.

And, as much as CC tries to control the "product" it's almost never implemented uniformly. Just look at the different stories on here of people who have tutors or directors who go against CC's stated policies. Directors with kids in PS (while CC dictates that all directors must have all their kids enrolled in CC), Challenge tutors with little kids (while CC dictates that any Challenge tutor must have at least one kid within one year of Challenge). Try as they might to strong arm directors into submission, I don't think their business model, where nearly every worker is supposedly an "independent contractor", allows the corporation the teeth to force that uniformity. So they're not even doing homeschool common core well! Just like public school common core...

Edited by Loolamay, 28 January 2018 - 09:33 AM.

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