Narration difficultly

[Calizzy]

Hi!

I have a 6 yo dd and getting her to do narrations is like pulling teeth. To be honest, the narration difficulty is just the tip of the iceberg. The problem is 2-fold; she has constant trouble being put on the spot and with articulating her thoughts/feelings. She doesn't like being sung to on her birthday. We sometimes have a silly "graduation" ceremony when a child finishes a level of school work and she will hide under the table rather than be acknowledged. As for articulating thoughts, when reading phonics readers they will often have comprehension questions at the end. Fact recall is fine, but questions of personal application are a nightmare ("what would you have done in this situation?") So narrations are just so hard for her. I have an ODD who shares her opinions far too easily and who loves being the center of attention so I'm not familiar with this personality type. I think some of it relates to always being in ODD's shadow. I think she finds comfort in it. Anyways, any suggestions on how to get her to communicate? How do I coax it out of her? It can be so frustrating and I think sometimes I make it worse be getting upset when I KNOW she was listening to what we just read, she just can't get her lips to say the words. Help!

[maize]

Sounds like she is dealing with some social anxiety. Pushing a kid who is experiencing anxiety is always counter productive in my experience as the external pressure (especially if accompanied by parental frustration) causes the feelings of anxiety to increase. If narration always brings out the anxiety I would drop narration for now.

 

I haven't used this particular book but have found others in the series to be helpful. It might be worth taking a look:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1433822768/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1486645003&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=social+anxiety+kids&dpPl=1&dpID=518r%2BJWDB8L&ref=plSrch

 

I think you are on the right track because you have recognized her distress. It doesn't matter that the circumstances that are triggering anxiety for her seem innocuous to you--the anxiety is 100% real. Maybe imagine yourself in a circumstance that would make you feel very anxious and self conscious and consider how you would want your husband or other supportive person to act.

Edited February 9, 2017 by maize

[PeterPan]

I wouldn't assume it's personality. You might want to go ahead and pursue evals (she's certainly old enough), get the cause figured out, and begin targeted intervention.

 

If you look at Home - trackingsheets.net they have ABLLS tracking sheets. That can help you see more detailed breakdowns for steps of language development to target. You might need to back up to an earlier step, rather than going for a whole narration. If she's having trouble with wh-words, that's significant and means she needs at least an SLP eval. Given the family history, you'd want a psych eval too for a fuller explanation. 

 

You don't want to miss a valuable intervention window by assuming. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[Bluegoat]

It is really common for kids that age to struggle with narrations - I think of it as the minimum age, but some aren't ready until 7 or 8. 

 

Questions I'd have for you - what kinds of things is she narrating, what style of narration, andhow often?

 

I'm not surprised that complex comprehension questions would also be an issue - narration is really a pre-skill in relation to questions like that.

[Kfamily]

I agree with all of Bluegoat's questions and statements. :)

 

I can relate to your experience with your older vs. younger daughter. We had a simliar situation at our house when my younger daughter was that age. Her older sister, also very verbose (:)), would, along with her Dad, dominate most conversations. I even had to pull my husband aside when younger daughter was around 4 and point out to him that she had actually said nothing during the course of one of our evening meals. I made a concerted effort at these meals to steer the conversations back to her, asking her opinions and inviting her to share her experiences of the day. Over time, she learned to find her own "voice". :) I share all of this so that you know that I can understand.

 

On the points of narration, I would ask the same questions as Bluegoat's in the previous post...

 

I would add these too:

 

How much is being read before she is being asked to narrate? You might consider reducing this amount greatly until she is more practiced.

 

Are you allowing her a variety of options for narration? Retelling and summarizing are not the only ways to narrate. Could she draw a picture of a scene and tell you about it?

 

Or have her turn her paper sideways and divide it into sections (quarters or thirds) and then draw quick pictures in each box in chronological order of the main events, letting her share her picture with you when its finished. There are many, many different ways to approach this. I wrote a short book on narrations that is free at my website with additional ideas about narration. You're welcome to download and save or print it. (See A Mind in the Light, link in my signature, and then click Bookstore once there. The PDF file can be found here.)

 

Also, be careful with the book's comprehension questions (such as the one you illustrated: What would you have done in this situation?). She may just need more guidance in how to answer that. For example, you might follow that question with "Hmmm, if I had been ___​whatever the problem is___, then I might have __how you would have solved it______." You might follow with "Can you pretend that you are ______​whatever the problem is___? What will you do now? " Basically, just change and expand on the wording of those questions to make them more relatable to her.

 

Just some thoughts...hope that helps some.

[Petrichor]

I agree with all of Bluegoat's questions and statements. :)

 

I can relate to your experience with your older vs. younger daughter. We had a simliar situation at our house when my younger daughter was that age. Her older sister, also very verbose ( :)), would, along with her Dad, dominate most conversations. I even had to pull my husband aside when younger daughter was around 4 and point out to him that she had actually said nothing during the course of one of our evening meals. I made a concerted effort at these meals to steer the conversations back to her, asking her opinions and inviting her to share her experiences of the day. Over time, she learned to find her own "voice". :) I share all of this so that you know that I can understand.

 

On the points of narration, I would ask the same questions as Bluegoat's in the previous post...

 

I would add these too:

 

How much is being read before she is being asked to narrate? You might consider reducing this amount greatly until she is more practiced.

 

Are you allowing her a variety of options for narration? Retelling and summarizing are not the only ways to narrate. Could she draw a picture of a scene and tell you about it?

 

Or have her turn her paper sideways and divide it into sections (quarters or thirds) and then draw quick pictures in each box in chronological order of the main events, letting her share her picture with you when its finished. There are many, many different ways to approach this. I wrote a short book on narrations that is free at my website with additional ideas about narration. You're welcome to download and save or print it. (See A Mind in the Light, link in my signature, and then click Bookstore once there. The PDF file can be found here.)

 

Also, be careful with the book's comprehension questions (such as the one you illustrated: What would you have done in this situation?). She may just need more guidance in how to answer that. For example, you might follow that question with "Hmmm, if I had been ___​whatever the problem is___, then I might have __how you would have solved it______." You might follow with "Can you pretend that you are ______​whatever the problem is___? What will you do now? " Basically, just change and expand on the wording of those questions to make them more relatable to her.

 

Just some thoughts...hope that helps some.

 

 Yes, and I also agree with Bluegoat.

 

You need to start with small chunks of text. 5 or 6 lines even.

 

DS is similarly shy. He needed lots of coaching before he could do narration well (to the expectations of WWE, at least) He was very shy to say anything, and tends to err on the side of "not knowing" rather than saying something that might be "wrong". And that was with just me and him in the room. 

 

I would suggest asking her the questions when it is only you and her in the room, and if she is starting to get nervous about her answer, don't look at her while she thinks it out. Looking in a different direction seems to help my DS feel less like I'm staring him down/rushing him for an answer.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Dust

[Calizzy]

Thanks for these responses. I need to be far more patient!

[PeterPan]

How to Help Students with ASD Tell You About Their Day - Autism Classroom Resources

 

This blog article had a bunch of good strategies that would carry over to any narration.

[bwdiaz]

One thing that seriously helped my reluctant narrator was to take a break for a bit narrating school to work on her confidence. To do that someone else shared with me that maybe my daughter (my oldest) really didn't understand what I expected from a narration. In order to improve that I should try to catch her narrating other things well and point it out.

 

For example, when she came home from the park with her father and told me all about it, I'd say, "I like how you narrated that trip from beginning to end!" Or if she got into a fight with her sister (after feelings were dealt with) I might say, "You really narrated the important facts for me, thank you." Or if we saw a show I might say, "What will you tell Daddy about the show when you see him later?"

 

I did that a lot for a whole term, then the next term I only did one narration on a school book a day, incorporating the ideas from other posts above, but it went a lot more smoothly because she already had the sense that she was good at it.

[HS Mom in NC]

Narrations can be done differently.  One way is more parts to whole where there's a reading and then there are comprehension questions asked of the child.  After they answer them,  then the child narrates. Another way is more whole to parts where there's a reading and then the child narrates back what they remember.  You may want to try it both ways and see if she responds better or one or the other. 

Some kids needs prompting questions when they get stuck in both approaches:

How did it start?
Where/when did it happen?

Who/what was it about?
What did the do?
Why did they do that?
What were they thinking?

What did they to happen?
What actually happened?
What happened before that?
Then what?
What did they want?
What was going on around them?

You get the idea. 

If the narrating isn't going well consider starting with something shorter and or simpler and stay at that level until the child can do it easily for a while before moving up to more challenging readings. 

Another thing to consider is content.  Some kids just aren't going to enjoy fantasy or earth science or history.  When starting out, pick something the kid does like to listen to and only switch to other subject matter they may not prefer when they have the hang of narrations.

Personal application is very abstract and not really necessary or even desirable at 6.  Right now the focus needs to be on attentiveness and accuracy. Not all 6 year olds are going to apply things to themselves and would have a hard time seeing themselves in many situations from their literature and history narrations.  If you look at the 3 stages of Neo Classical Trivium, the first stage (that a 6 year old would be in) is the facts/grammar stage.  Then the second stage (somewhere in late elementary or middle school, depending on the child) is logic/cause & effect.  The last stage (somewhere in middle school or high school, depending in the kid) is rhetoric/application and persuasion.

In classical education we don't really do a whole lot of asking about application from someone who hasn't been through the facts and cause and effect stage.  Seriously, why would we?

Some kids hate silly, I did as a kid-if there had been a silly ceremony at the end of a level of schoolwork when I was a kid, I'd consider moving out of my household permanently.  Being raised by wolves would've been preferable to that for me. You may have a more serious personality type with that kid.  You need to familiarize yourself with different personality types.