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Grade 5 Teacher is a One-Woman Show - need ideas


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#51 wendyroo

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 06:49 PM

Actually, no, that is legally not true in the United States. That is why I asked if you read the paperwork you signed when you sent your child to school. That is why I mentioned "in loco parentis." It has gone to court. That latin phrase means "in lieu of parent." You quite literally signed away your rights. You can google it. Your child has no right to privacy, no right to assembly, no right to speach, no right to medical treatment they request. It is completely the school's discernment. Those are exaggerated examples, and I do not wish to derail this thread, but it is catagorically not true that you are reponsible for your child at school. You need to look it up. You relinquished those rights.

 

Those are examples of the child not having rights.  The parent, however, still has rights to/over the child.  If I want my child to assemble or protest or get medical treatment, then I can take them out of school at my discretion (barring legal/custody issues).

 

Obviously, pulling a child out of school to assemble or protest comes with the risk of unexcused absences; very few of our rights don't have consequences.  But, that does not mean I don't still have responsibility for my child.

 

Since parents ultimately have the right to completely remove their child from school to homeschool, I think schools have an obligation to provide parents enough information about their child's progress to make an informed decision.

 

Wendy


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#52 wapiti

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 07:01 PM

In GENERAL (there are exceptions), you should not try to work with your child in a manner that is completely opposed to the teacher's methods.  This can cause confusion in your child, frustration in the teacher, and in the long run is unlikely to offer much benefit.

 

It's true that there are some things you give up control of when your kids are in school.  I HATED the math curriculum that my daughter's school used last year (well, they still use it, she's just not there this year lol)  I would never presume try to get the teacher to change that curriculum or try to teach my child in a completely different manner.

 

FWIW, I wonder if there is a distinction between a manner that is completely opposed to the teacher's methods and a manner that is simply different.  I'm still trying to think of an example of the former.

 

As for the latter, I have and will teach something about math completely differently from how the teacher taught (or failed to teach) a topic, if that is what it takes for my child to understand and be able to do the work.  This doesn't come up too often in the younger grades, but around the prealgebra/algebra levels, there have been occasions where the procedure was taught in a confusing manner with an insufficient concept basis (I'm looking at you, khan academy... I never did figure out the trick it was trying to teach in one weird video; just pulled out aops and backed up to the actual concept and taught him to do it the "right" way LOL).

 

I give up certain things to send my kids to school.  But, at the end of the day/year/decade, ultimately I am responsible for my kids' education in the most general sense.  I haven't been doing a lot of afterschooling lately, but any suggestion that I shouldn't really steps on my toes.  I'm not so worried about teacher toes anymore; I've heard my share of lip service, been the pushy mom, been the doormat mom, and I'm done with trying to appease or convince a teacher with whom I realize I hold a fundamental disagreement of some sort.  I just go about my business quietly so that my student is prepared for the next level of school, e.g. up from elementary to middle.


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#53 happysmileylady

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 07:07 PM

Actually, no, that is legally not true in the United States. That is why I asked if you read the paperwork you signed when you sent your child to school. That is why I mentioned "in loco parentis." It has gone to court. That latin phrase means "in lieu of parent." You quite literally signed away your rights. You can google it. Your child has no right to privacy, no right to assembly, no right to speach, no right to medical treatment they request. It is completely the school's discernment. Those are exaggerated examples, and I do not wish to derail this thread, but it is catagorically not true that you are reponsible for your child at school. You need to look it up. You relinquished those rights.

 

No, that's not true.  "In Loco Parentis" is a limited right of the school to make decisions for the child that it believes are in the child's best interests.  It does not, in any way, SIGN AWAY, the rights of the parents.  It simply says the school can make some decisions as well.  The child ABSOLUTELY has the right to privacy, right of speech etc.  There have of course been court cases that say that a school cannot force a student to say the pledge of allegiance or stand for the national anthem, as examples.  Signing your child up for school does not require signing a TPR. 

 

Generally speaking, it's what allows the school to issue disciplinary measures, like taking away recess, detention, writing sentences, etc.  It allows schools to do things like search lockers for drugs, weapons or other illegal things, it requires that they provide measures of safety...and that does sometimes go beyond the scope of the parent.  A parent isn't going to be held to specific playground standards the way a school is. 

 

It basically just means that the school has a duty to act in the best interests of a child, in the same manner a parent does, not that the school gains more rights than the parent. 


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#54 Momma2Luke

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 07:13 PM

 I'm done with trying to appease or convince a teacher with whom I realize I hold a fundamental disagreement of some sort.  I just go about my business quietly so that my student is prepared for the next level of school, e.g. up from elementary to middle.

So smart...  and so true... by this time next year, will my teacher even remember my son or his abilities?  Probably not.  His teacher is in his life for such a short time and really... does she REALLY care about his education in a personal way as I do?  I doubt it...  As parents we need to be the ones to make sure that our children are given every opportunity we can give them to make sure they are reaching their full potential.  


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#55 Earthmerlin

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 07:16 PM

I haven't read all posts but it kind of sounds odd that a teacher would 'hoard' her students' learnings & classwork. I'd suggest taking the indirect route--casually gleening information from your child & proceeding from there. I say this because the teacher's obviously not open-minded in that respect. Personally, I wouldn't put too much stock in her opinions. However, I wouldn't dissect her M.O. at the dinner table either--too much confusion for a tender soul, IMO. I would just look for sparks of (school) interest from your child & run with them until they naturally peter out.

I also wish for more detailed information from my 7 yr old's teacher. I myself am a teacher & hope to extensively extend her school learnings at home. More detailed information really isn't going to happen, though--even despite a decent & open relationship with her teacher. The teacher is just too busy & overloaded--plus, my kid's quiet (& therefore can be overlooked). I look at her graded work coming home & we go over major points to clear up any lingering confusion. No, it's not preventive, but rather more reactive, but it's just one of the trade-offs I had to make when I decided to enroll her in PS.

I've tried to focus on what I can control at home. I have downloaded the district's 2nd grade curricula & I use it to direct my after-schooling. I also look ahead to the next few grades--as she's well above grade level. Professionally, I teach 6th grade math buf she easily graps those concepts too during dinner conversations--LOL! Anyhoo, I take personal & family values & considerations & spin them into the after-school fold. But, the greatest driving force is her interest. Above all, I want to instill in her a love of learning & a sense of curiostiy. So I use her topics of interest as a springboard for exploration & I weave those grade-level skills--which can be universal (i.e, editing, scientific inquiry, etc.)--into our home-school environment. This allows reinforcement but also the idea of transferring skills & knowledge between disciplines.

I hope this post gives you strength to change the things you can, accept the things you cannot & wisdom to know the difference. Good luck!

Edited by Earthmerlin, 31 January 2017 - 07:20 PM.


#56 itsheresomewhere

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 07:24 PM

I wonder if the school does a portfolio review at the end of the year and that is why the teacher keeps the work.  If that is the case, at the end of the year the teacher will review all the work and send home the portfolio.  Very few papers come home during the year. It shows how the student has improved and can also show where the student has troubles.  It can be a help especially if the teacher might suspect that student has some learning issues and can show a need for IEP evaluation.  A few schools in my area are doing this and it is interesting to see the results. The schools who are doing this will have a conference with the parents at the end of the year to discuss the portfolio.


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#57 Have kids -- will travel

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 07:31 PM

OP, I'm an afterschooler who has gone back to work full time. It's hard adjusting to less control/oversight/influence over your child's education. I get that. I miss being more on top of things and sometimes wonder if I made the right decision ... until I see my son flourishing without my input, succeeding on his own, and choosing his own path.

 

Please sit down with your child's teacher and principal. Would it be enough for you to get more work after it is already completed and graded? 

 

It's not okay to coach your child from a C to an A+. The scaffolding that a parent provides is not what the school is looking for. They want to see what a child can produce at school, in the available time. Even my K'er has "hot tasks" where not even the teacher or TA interferes, so that the school can see a child's work in class without help. Sure, he could do better at home with me reminding him to check his spelling, but that's not the assignment.

 

Don't get in the habit of overly helping with your child's assignments. You'll find your child more and more incapable of creating quality assignments independently. The skill of independent work will serve your child more than any book report scaffolding or fifth grade spelling test ever could.

 

Looking over graded assignments is a totally different matter.


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#58 Where's Toto?

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 07:37 PM

FWIW, I wonder if there is a distinction between a manner that is completely opposed to the teacher's methods and a manner that is simply different.  I'm still trying to think of an example of the former.

 

 

 

Well, if the teacher wants to know what kind of work the kid turns in doing one rough draft, one set of corrections, and then a final copy in the time available in class it would be completely opposing her methods to work at home on five sets of revisions in addition to what is being done in class.


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#59 arctic_bunny

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 10:52 PM

One last thought, to try and convey where I am coming from, and what we are trying to achieve?

In the workplace - or the "real" world.... on the whole - which is more preferable and lends itself to success more often? The employee who goes to work, puts in his 8 hours, does what is asked of him but never really takes ownership of his job - never really thinks on his/her own on ways to improve or learn more or produce more?

Or is it the employee who comes home - perhaps discusses his work with his family, friends.... takes ownership of what he is asked to do and makes it HIS (even though he might not have chosen a particular project) - does further research on his own, brainstorms on his work, maybe reworks or redoes a draft as a thought occurs to him?

While this employee may not be able to choose what projects he gets to work on at work- the taking "ownership" of it anyways (on his time away from work even!!) is what will distinguish him from the rest.

This is the culture we try to foster in our family. It takes time to cultivate this outlook on life. I am looking to brainstorm ways to make this happen despite a teacher who does not subscribe to this.

Thanks again for any tips you may have!!

I absolutely agree with you! 100%!
I guess I don't see why the physical work has to come home, though. We discuss what they're learning about at school. We get out books and iPads and look into in further. We branch off into other topics. We all share our opinions and theories and experiences.
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#60 mathnerd

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 01:54 AM

In the end, as a parent....I AM responsible for my own child.

 

I agree with this. Just because a child is enrolled in a school (public or private) does not mean that the school is completely responsible for the education.

 

Most schools I know of will not assign a grade to a child in Language Arts or Math based on one test or book report - they usually have a formula by which they come up with grades: an example: 30% for homework and assignments done at home such as book reports, 20% for class room work, 25% for tests, 10% for participating in discussions, 5% based on teacher's observation. This grade is overridable on teacher's discretion - e.g. the child gets a B- and the teacher thought that he deserved a A instead, they can manually change it. So, if the OP worked on a particular book report with her child and coached him to produce an awesome product, that will not skew his report card grades drastically because the grading system is based on several inputs. Instead, it will highlight to the teacher that this kid can produce exemplary work when helped one-on-one by a parent or a tutor and that he has far greater potential than what is visible in the classroom. 

 

OP, I think that you are entitled to every single piece of completed work and graded tests from the teacher. I don't know of any school where I live that does not send home the finished work. But, the schools normally will not send in the work-in-progress. If your son needs extra time, extra coaching or an extra quiet room it might be a good idea to bring it up to the principal - my local PS allows kids to come in 20 minutes earlier in the morning and work on unfinished assignments, ask teacher questions or to log into a computer to finish programming assignments. I do not think that there can be individualized attention or accommodations beyond the teacher's efforts to differentiate because as you said, it is a busy and large class. They can allocate resources if your son gets an IEP.

 

If you think that your son could use more help with a writing assignment done in class, then it is a good idea to ask for the finished and graded work and state that the reason you ask is so that you can review with your son what he could have done differently to have a better outcome. If the teacher is actually grading all the work, then, she should send it home. You can then go over what would make the book report better next time. 

 

 

But, if you want my opinion, I recommend that you wait this out until the end of the year and figure out how middle school works for you all.


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#61 threeofakind

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 01:59 AM

Does she share with families skills they are working on, but not specific assignments? Do you think she would share that? And perhaps what he needs to work on? To me it seems that is a reasonable request to know.

#62 MistyMountain

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 03:49 AM

I agree that I want access graded work so I can see what exactly is happening. I like when teachers get back the work that has been graded in a timely manner so we can go over them when they still remember doing it. I would not like never seeing assignments. I do not know schools that do not send the assignments home sometime after they are graded.
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#63 vonfirmath

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 10:16 AM

So smart...  and so true... by this time next year, will my teacher even remember my son or his abilities?  Probably not.  His teacher is in his life for such a short time and really... does she REALLY care about his education in a personal way as I do?  I doubt it...  As parents we need to be the ones to make sure that our children are given every opportunity we can give them to make sure they are reaching their full potential.  

 

The good ones do remember.  Or maybe it is that certain students stand out...

I still see my son's second grade teacher occasionally and she asks after him (He's in 4th grade now).  By name.


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#64 SKL

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 11:48 AM

I wish I had time to read all of the responses today before posting, but it is a busy work day for me.  I think this is the most talk I've ever seen in 1 day on this subforum.  Love it, especially since my 2 kids are also in 5th grade.

 

I dislike the one size fits all / all or nothing approach here. 

 

There are some kids who are ready and able and happy to do "school" as described in the OP.  I do think it allows kids to "own" their own education assuming they are ready.

 

But in 5th grade, I think a high % of kids can still benefit from parental oversight, which gives us a chance to advise our individual kids.  For example, my youngest is very bright but has bad habits, especially when it comes to math.  There is a huge difference between what she produces at school vs. what she is mentally capable of (which I demand of her by checking homework).  She is still responsible for being careless at school, but how will she even know what she needs to improve if I never get to work with her?  She's 10.  Her teacher has about 100 math students every day.  I believe I have a role here.  On the other hand, she does fine with the verbal stuff they do at school - they are required do do all their research and writing projects there, and this works fine for my kid who is ready for it.

 

My other 5th grader needs more practice and more time to do well.  She is a good, conscientious, organized student, but new concepts take time to stick, and she needs to review her work.  Sometimes teachers will let her stay after school or offer her a little extra help to comprehend what is wanted.  However, this isn't always the best option.  Homework often accomplishes more with less inconvenience to all involved.

 

Maybe my slower 5th grader "could" get an IEP if I pushed for that, but I don't see the need when my kid and I are able and willing to do the extra work to keep up with the class.  She has benefited a lot from the one-on-one at home and is now one of the better math students in terms of work product.  It means a lot to her self-esteem, as she is very social and keenly aware of what everyone else is doing.

 

I understand the need for both teacher and student to see what the child can do on her own.  It is reasonable to have a balance where enough work is done at school to assess, but enough is done at home to enable the parent to be a coach if coaching is helpful to the individual child.


Edited by SKL, 02 February 2017 - 04:20 PM.

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#65 JulieA97

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 01:01 PM

OP I have a similar issue with my ds (Kindergaten) school in that I have gotten a total of 3 things he has done in class sent home. I asked and his teacher said "No I don't send work they completed home. I keep it for his portfolio". It makes me NUTS. There is a distinct feel imho of don't worry your pretty little head about what we are doing in school. We will tell you of there are problems at the end of the year.

I am not talking about incomplete work he needs to finish, I mean work he completed at school. Drawings, writings, art projects. Nothing gets sent home.

How am I supposed to know what they are covering in math if I don't see any work? How about writing? I am told they draw a picture and write about it everyday but I have only seen 1 and that was at Parent/ Teacher Conference. I know nothing about what he is learning about science or social studies if anything at all.

So no advice OP just understanding where you are coming from.

#66 SKL

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 03:31 PM

As to the question of what can be done at home instead of school work, here are some things we do (my kids have started pushing back on extra book work at home):

  • Math:  we do have homework, but if we need extra work, we can do the following:
    • For keeping up:  work in a workbook parallel to what they are doing at school, to shore up concepts.
    • For going beyond:  my advanced kid enjoys Khan Academy.  We also have many fiction / nonfiction books that are designed to encourage math thinking.
    • We will use comprehensive workbooks for review in the summer.  We have done math camps in the past, but this year I'm not sure I'll find an appropriate one.
    • Life skills:  cooking, earning, spending, whatever else comes up.  I am looking into age-appropriate banking options.
  • Literature:  consuming and discussing a variety of books (audiobooks, read-alouds, and silent reading).  We are loving audiobooks in the car as we drive between activities etc.  The kids participate in a book club at the library.  Good books are helpful for geography and history too.  We also subscribe to several kids' magazines.  Periodically the kids participate in short theater camps where they create a play based on a book.
  • Writing:  pen pal letters, writing their own imagined stories, diaries, etc.  The library offers free creative writing classes, but my kids aren't interested at this time.
  • Science:  we have monthly subscriptions to Tinker Box and Science Expeditions.  We utilize museums, national parks, and free library programs' science offerings.  We have many nonfiction books and cookbooks and scientific toys (e.g. robotics kit) available if we ever get time to use them.  :)  I also bought a copy of the kids' science textbook so they can study at home as needed.
  • Geography, history:  we utilize museums / national parks, learn through books & magazines, films, and travel.  I also bought a copy of the kids' textbook so they can study at home as needed.
  • Music:  they learn / practice at home - their band instruments and other instruments that we have here.  We attend various musical shows.
  • Foreign language:  we have many bilingual story books and foreign language music etc.  We hardly ever use them though.
  • Scouts provides many educational opportunities that have an academic side, especially in history and science.

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#67 Heigh Ho

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 03:51 PM



How am I supposed to know what they are covering in math if I don't see any work? How about writing? I am told they draw a picture and write about it everyday but I have only seen 1 and that was at Parent/ Teacher Conference. I know nothing about what he is learning about science or social studies if anything at all.


Ways to find out: converse with your child, observe your child using acquired skills in Daily Life, make an appointment to conference with teacher, read common core grade level standards.
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#68 Have kids -- will travel

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 07:00 PM

I do not know schools that do not send the assignments home sometime after they are graded.

 

My son's K class sends nothing home. The children do all of their work in books (literacy, math, and project books), and the teacher corrects these. One color highlighter for good, one color highlighter for incorrect. The kids get feedback, but it doesn't come home.

 

OP I have a similar issue with my ds (Kindergaten) school in that I have gotten a total of 3 things he has done in class sent home. I asked and his teacher said "No I don't send work they completed home. I keep it for his portfolio". It makes me NUTS. There is a distinct feel imho of don't worry your pretty little head about what we are doing in school. We will tell you of there are problems at the end of the year.

I am not talking about incomplete work he needs to finish, I mean work he completed at school. Drawings, writings, art projects. Nothing gets sent home.

How am I supposed to know what they are covering in math if I don't see any work? How about writing? I am told they draw a picture and write about it everyday but I have only seen 1 and that was at Parent/ Teacher Conference. I know nothing about what he is learning about science or social studies if anything at all.

So no advice OP just understanding where you are coming from.

 

Our school is the same, except that they send out weekly emails with the curriculum targets. This week my K'er's class is working on counting money by 10s and missing number sentences with money. 

 

Ask the teacher to see the books if you want to know more information. Most teachers are more than happy to comply with showing you.



#69 Farrar

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 12:23 AM

Actually, no, that is legally not true in the United States. That is why I asked if you read the paperwork you signed when you sent your child to school. That is why I mentioned "in loco parentis." It has gone to court. That latin phrase means "in lieu of parent." You quite literally signed away your rights. You can google it. Your child has no right to privacy, no right to assembly, no right to speach, no right to medical treatment they request. It is completely the school's discernment. Those are exaggerated examples, and I do not wish to derail this thread, but it is catagorically not true that you are reponsible for your child at school. You need to look it up. You relinquished those rights.

 

That's quite an exaggeration of what in loco parentis means. Not only that, but the Supreme Court has specifically stated that students do not leave their rights at the school doors. Yes, the school gets limited rights to act in lieu of the parents, but limited. And yes, the school gets to limit the rights of the student. But they do not have blanket authority to act as the parent or limit all rights.

 

On the other hand, I don't know what the law is in Canada, but in the US, the teacher is indeed, in charge of the child's education in the classroom. The parent cannot change the school's policies or the classroom policies just because she or he feel they should be different for their child. Of course, schools and even statues and government statements may encourage parents to be involved and give feedback... but changing classroom policies is not what is typically meant by that. I've been a teacher in a variety of classrooms over the years - parents like the OP are a pain in the rear. Not because I'm "insecure" but because I am under no obligation change the well considered policies of the school to suit their views. I'm all for flexibility, but it's not fair for one child to have different policies than the rest. 

 

This whole thread is just... oy vey. I'm glad I'm married to a man who apparently doesn't "own" his work. People who can't leave work at work suck to be in families with.


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#70 kiwik

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 05:13 AM

I agree.  At the first school my kids attended I never saw anything they did unless I went into the classroom and went through their books (this is fine in NZ although some teachers would really prefer you stayed outside and one did make it a bit difficult by putting her own children there after school to discourage random visits).  Their current school doesn't send anything home either but they communicate more and are more co-operative.  Also homework is more relevant to what they are doing at the current school whereas the first school did basic facts plus busywork which was random activities which would have appealed several years earlier (when ds9 was 6 he used to get his younger brother to do them instead).

 

I think of the school as a sub-contractor.  I have delegated certain aspects of education to them but I am in overall charge.  They don't usually agree.  I don't mean I get a say in what they do at school just that I am the parent and it is my responsibility to raise my child not theirs.  And I will be held accountable by my children and society not a teacher they had for one school year.

 

I do think transparency is essential.  If I don't like it I can choose to put up with it or move my child but I should have some idea what is taught and what the classroom culture is.  I know too many people who have been fobbed off with "he is doing fine" or "he can do it he just needs to work a bit harder" only to find when the child goes to intermediate that they are several years behind in core subjects/have dyslexia etc.  


Edited by kiwik, 02 February 2017 - 05:20 AM.

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#71 regentrude

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 09:24 AM

How am I supposed to know what they are covering in math if I don't see any work? How about writing? I am told they draw a picture and write about it everyday but I have only seen 1 and that was at Parent/ Teacher Conference. I know nothing about what he is learning about science or social studies if anything at all.

 

Hmm... by talking to your kid? Does he not tell you what they did in school??? Does he not draw and write at home?
 

We were on the other side of the spectrum - every little scrap of paper came home. I found looking at this completely useless because from conversations with my kids I already knew that they were bored out of their skull because the work was not the level they needed. Seeing the pile of papers just confirmed what they told me. And there was nothing I could do about it anyway, besides puling them out of school.


Edited by regentrude, 02 February 2017 - 09:24 AM.

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#72 myfantasticfour

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 09:24 AM

I sympathize with your sense of wrongness about who owns your son's work. The school may own the textbooks and therefore be in their rights to keep them at school, but what about his original work? I think the last person, who mentioned that parents really don't often realize the extent of what happens when you send them to school, explained it best.

 

Someone I know was outraged when she found out that her daughter had been traumatized by bullying from other girls in 4th grade, and the school had been involved, and had numerous meetings between the girls and had even sent the affected girl to counseling...and no one felt it was necessary to inform the parents. The mother only found out far too late to become involved, once her daughter was safely past the events enough, to confide it all to her mother. After the fact.

 

There really is this embedded idea that school is not the parent's business, even though they all say they want parental involvement. I suppose parental involvement is for fundraisers and volunteering in specific ways, and that is it.

 

But I homeschool, and so my first reaction to your description of the situation, other than sympathy with the cause of your outrage (it's the principle of the thing! It's like a doctor's office keeping your own medical records from you!), is to think that if you want ownership of his education for him, as proctored by you, you need to consider homeschooling, because that is about the only way to accomplish that.


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#73 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 09:28 AM

OP I have a similar issue with my ds (Kindergaten) school in that I have gotten a total of 3 things he has done in class sent home. I asked and his teacher said "No I don't send work they completed home. I keep it for his portfolio". It makes me NUTS. There is a distinct feel imho of don't worry your pretty little head about what we are doing in school. We will tell you of there are problems at the end of the year.

I am not talking about incomplete work he needs to finish, I mean work he completed at school. Drawings, writings, art projects. Nothing gets sent home.

How am I supposed to know what they are covering in math if I don't see any work? How about writing? I am told they draw a picture and write about it everyday but I have only seen 1 and that was at Parent/ Teacher Conference. I know nothing about what he is learning about science or social studies if anything at all.

So no advice OP just understanding where you are coming from.

 

I know EXACTLY that distinct feeling of "Don't worry your pretty little head about what we are doing in school.   We will tell you if there are problems at the end of the school year".   !!!!   And if you are dealing with an alpha female teacher as I am - it turns into more of a feeling of " there is now no WAY I'm going to cave! "   Forgetting of course that this is MY child and I am not about to wait till the end of the year to see his portfolio and learn all about the issues I could have been helping him with all along!!  

Thank you for understanding!  Its so frustrating! 



#74 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 09:31 AM

I sympathize with your sense of wrongness about who owns your son's work. The school may own the textbooks and therefore be in their rights to keep them at school, but what about his original work? I think the last person, who mentioned that parents really don't often realize the extent of what happens when you send them to school, explained it best.

 

Someone I know was outraged when she found out that her daughter had been traumatized by bullying from other girls in 4th grade, and the school had been involved, and had numerous meetings between the girls and had even sent the affected girl to counseling...and no one felt it was necessary to inform the parents. The mother only found out far too late to become involved, once her daughter was safely past the events enough, to confide it all to her mother. After the fact.

 

There really is this embedded idea that school is not the parent's business, even though they all say they want parental involvement. I suppose parental involvement is for fundraisers and volunteering in specific ways, and that is it.

 

But I homeschool, and so my first reaction to your description of the situation, other than sympathy with the cause of your outrage (it's the principle of the thing! It's like a doctor's office keeping your own medical records from you!), is to think that if you want ownership of his education for him, as proctored by you, you need to consider homeschooling, because that is about the only way to accomplish that.

 

Thank you for understanding! That is truly awful about your friends daughter!  WOW!  I would be outraged to learn that had been kept from me!  

 

I wish we could continue to homeschool - but its just not feasible for us for the foreseeable future - but I will always treasure the homeschooling time we had up until grade 4!  :) 



#75 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 09:33 AM

I agree.  At the first school my kids attended I never saw anything they did unless I went into the classroom and went through their books (this is fine in NZ although some teachers would really prefer you stayed outside and one did make it a bit difficult by putting her own children there after school to discourage random visits).  Their current school doesn't send anything home either but they communicate more and are more co-operative.  Also homework is more relevant to what they are doing at the current school whereas the first school did basic facts plus busywork which was random activities which would have appealed several years earlier (when ds9 was 6 he used to get his younger brother to do them instead).

 

I think of the school as a sub-contractor.  I have delegated certain aspects of education to them but I am in overall charge.  They don't usually agree.  I don't mean I get a say in what they do at school just that I am the parent and it is my responsibility to raise my child not theirs.  And I will be held accountable by my children and society not a teacher they had for one school year.

 

I do think transparency is essential.  If I don't like it I can choose to put up with it or move my child but I should have some idea what is taught and what the classroom culture is.  I know too many people who have been fobbed off with "he is doing fine" or "he can do it he just needs to work a bit harder" only to find when the child goes to intermediate that they are several years behind in core subjects/have dyslexia etc.  

  

I'm on the same wavelength as you!  the school is a sub-contractor but I'M the one in charge of raising this young man!  



#76 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 09:40 AM

That's quite an exaggeration of what in loco parentis means. Not only that, but the Supreme Court has specifically stated that students do not leave their rights at the school doors. Yes, the school gets limited rights to act in lieu of the parents, but limited. And yes, the school gets to limit the rights of the student. But they do not have blanket authority to act as the parent or limit all rights.

 

On the other hand, I don't know what the law is in Canada, but in the US, the teacher is indeed, in charge of the child's education in the classroom. The parent cannot change the school's policies or the classroom policies just because she or he feel they should be different for their child. Of course, schools and even statues and government statements may encourage parents to be involved and give feedback... but changing classroom policies is not what is typically meant by that. I've been a teacher in a variety of classrooms over the years - parents like the OP are a pain in the rear. Not because I'm "insecure" but because I am under no obligation change the well considered policies of the school to suit their views. I'm all for flexibility, but it's not fair for one child to have different policies than the rest. 

 

This whole thread is just... oy vey. I'm glad I'm married to a man who apparently doesn't "own" his work. People who can't leave work at work suck to be in families with.

 

 

LOL!! I laughed so hard at this post!  Love it!  I'm a pain in the rear for daring to want to see my son's portfolio DURING the year instead of after.... Yep - that's such a MAJOR policy change to actually maybe send the duotangs home once in a while, knowing that they'll be RIGHT BACK at school the very next day!!!! (rolling eyes while rofl)  :lol:

 

Teachers with your mindset are so very close minded and are the thorn in the side of proactive, involved, caring parents.  



#77 Heigh Ho

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 09:44 AM

So, does your school have parent teacher conferences quarterly? In these conferences, is the work reviewed?

#78 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 09:47 AM

 

Ask the teacher to see the books if you want to know more information. Most teachers are more than happy to comply with showing you.

 

Except this is the entire reason for this post!  This teacher is NOT more than happy to show me!  And it is NOT a school policy  - just her own personal choice (with a principal who is choosing to support her, for the time being).  She wants all work to stay at school in his portfolio.    


For anyone following with a genuine interest - I received a great suggestion.  We receive our next report cards in a couple of weeks.  Parent-teacher interviews will be held in the gym again - but this time, I will anticipate the fact that she will conveniently not have any of his work available for viewing and I will simply make sure to request in writing that all of his duotangs be available for viewing with a specific request to see corrected work.  If my time runs out before I've had a chance to look at them (we are allotted 15 minutes for parent-teacher meetings) - I will simply take them to the seating area in the gym to review while she conducts further interviews with other parents.  


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#79 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 09:49 AM

So, does your school have parent teacher conferences quarterly? In these conferences, is the work reviewed?

 

Yes.  They are held in the gym.  We've only had one so far this year and she did not bring ANY of her students work with her into the gym.  



#80 Farrar

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 10:05 AM

LOL!! I laughed so hard at this post!  Love it!  I'm a pain in the rear for daring to want to see my son's portfolio DURING the year instead of after.... Yep - that's such a MAJOR policy change to actually maybe send the duotangs home once in a while, knowing that they'll be RIGHT BACK at school the very next day!!!! (rolling eyes while rofl)  :lol:

 

Teachers with your mindset are so very close minded and are the thorn in the side of proactive, involved, caring parents.  

 

No, parents who think they should be in charge of my classroom and want exceptions for their special snowflakes are a pain in the rear. Wanting to see the portfolio is totally fine. Wanting to be in charge of the rules is not. Since you're so concerned with real world analogies and the working world, consider if every employee... or, no, even worse, every employee's mommy... wanted to go tell the boss of the company how to run things. No, do it this way. No, change this policy. It's chaos. And it's chaos in the classroom. Teachers have a hard enough job without having to deal with parents who wish they were robots at their beck and call.

 

Look, I get it. THIS is why I homeschool. Because I would go nuts if a teacher were doing things in a way that I didn't like. But when you send your kid to school, you give up 95% or so of that control in regards to education during school time. Just the way it is. And if you can't accept that, you'll never be happy. There is no teacher out there who is going to suit your desires completely.


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#81 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 10:14 AM

No, parents who think they should be in charge of my classroom and want exceptions for their special snowflakes are a pain in the rear. Wanting to see the portfolio is totally fine. Wanting to be in charge of the rules is not. Since you're so concerned with real world analogies and the working world, consider if every employee... or, no, even worse, every employee's mommy... wanted to go tell the boss of the company how to run things. No, do it this way. No, change this policy. It's chaos. And it's chaos in the classroom. Teachers have a hard enough job without having to deal with parents who wish they were robots at their beck and call.

 

Look, I get it. THIS is why I homeschool. Because I would go nuts if a teacher were doing things in a way that I didn't like. But when you send your kid to school, you give up 95% or so of that control in regards to education during school time. Just the way it is. And if you can't accept that, you'll never be happy. There is no teacher out there who is going to suit your desires completely.

The fundamental difference is that you view seeing your child's work as an "exception".   I view it as a parental right.   In no way can that be construed as trying to be "in charge" of their classroom.  My child's work does not equal a teacher's classroom.  



#82 eternalsummer

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 11:22 AM

I think seeing your child's work once it is completed, especially at the end of a grading period or unit (as in, we're doing studying Egypt, take home your Egypt maps now) is totally reasonable.

 

I think that if the way you approached it with the teacher were focused on that (seeing completed work) you'd get a lot farther, at least with most teachers.

 

It's the taking home work in progress to be fixed before grading that makes teachers nervous, and if you've already done that, she might be wary of your other requests.


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#83 Tanaqui

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 12:49 PM

Yep - that's such a MAJOR policy change to actually maybe send the duotangs home once in a while, knowing that they'll be RIGHT BACK at school the very next day!

 

Except they won't be. Maybe your son's will be, but one kid will open it on the way home and lose important components, four kids will forget theirs on the counter for a day or two, one kid will lose it entirely, two kids will have their pets and siblings destroy it.... and, of course, half the class will forget to show Mom and Dad. Their folders will return to school in pristine condition the very next day.

 

(And of those kids whose parents see the work and then return it to the school on time, at least one of them will have Mom and Dad help them do work they should be doing at school - and three more will have Mom and Dad "help" them, ie "do it for them", and a fourth will have Mom and Dad *try* to help them but actually screw it up.)

 

People here have given you ideas on how to extend the learning outside of school without actually doing the assigned work. I don't know why you are stuck on the idea that the only way for your kid to "own his work" is to keep doing the same exact project on Egypt or the stock market or whatever rather than doing extension work on his own time.


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#84 Heigh Ho

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 01:15 PM

Yes. They are held in the gym. We've only had one so far this year and she did not bring ANY of her students work with her into the gym.



So, what does the report card say? Ours give a list of skills and an indication of how far toward mastery the student is. Very easy to look at and see what has been done and what is left to do.

#85 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 01:16 PM

 

People here have given you ideas on how to extend the learning outside of school without actually doing the assigned work. I don't know why you are stuck on the idea that the only way for your kid to "own his work" is to keep doing the same exact project on Egypt or the stock market or whatever rather than doing extension work on his own time.

 

I am very well versed in how to extend learning outside of school. We already do that. And my confidence and ability in that area is not lacking.  That wasn't my issue and it is not what I asked for.    
And my reasons for wanting my son to be able to have access to his own work is a basic right (even though it sounds like you all don't agree with me on that point).... 
 

I may seem "stuck" on the idea of seeing my son's work because I have had to repeatedly justify, refute (etc) a TON of silly and false little insinuations/assumptions like the one you JUST posted about me wanting to do the exact same project on Egypt.  

I had asked for ideas on how I might gain the cooperation of my son's school on this point and I have received a few really good ideas and some good support and even some great inspiration!  

Thank you to those of you who were genuinely interested in trying to see my point of view (even if you didn't agree with me! :) ) - I will keep you posted on how my strategy goes at the next parent/student interview!  
 



#86 Farrar

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 01:23 PM

I think if you come on a forum where people are probably going to be predisposed to thinking that a) schools mostly suck b) parents should make decisions about their kids' educations and c) afterschooling is a good thing and you can't get them to agree with your viewpoint, then maybe you're out of line.

 

Control is a tough thing. I get it. But your right to choose your child's education means that once you choose school, you hand off those hours educationally with only a few exceptions.


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#87 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 01:35 PM

I think if you come on a forum where people are probably going to be predisposed to thinking that a) schools mostly suck b) parents should make decisions about their kids' educations and c) afterschooling is a good thing and you can't get them to agree with your viewpoint, then maybe you're out of line.

 

Control is a tough thing. I get it. But your right to choose your child's education means that once you choose school, you hand off those hours educationally with only a few exceptions.

 

There actually were quite a few people in this forum (especially the parents whose children were actually in school as opposed to currently being homeschooled) who believed that a child (and their parents) should have access to their own work.  That part of my request and belief was absolutely NOT out of line.  There is a part of me feels sad that so many parents think that they have to just relinquish that right.   You do NOT have hand off those hours completely.  Our school boards are being paid for by our tax dollars - and we do have parental rights.   

And there were quite a few of you who could actually UNDERSTAND the benefit of your child being able to have access to his own work (to study from, make notes from , etc, etc) without making ridiculous assumptions and accusations.  

Now, what a most of you DID disagree with me on was accessing WIP's to work further on at home despite the teacher's dissent.   THAT is a fair disagreement.... you all gave me and my husband some fair food-for-thought on that issue.   ;)


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#88 Tibbie Dunbar

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 01:43 PM

Could you not acquire your own materials in the 3Rs or any other subjects with which to assess your child at home, and with which to work on skills that you believe he needs help with?

 

My Mom did that, eons before homeschooling was mainstream. She just considered it parenting...she thought the teacher was doing her job and did not get in the way of classroom operations at all, but there were areas that she wanted to be sure we didn't miss.

 

I remember Bible study, poetry memorization, frequent discussions on history and politics, biographies, museum trips and nature study. Learning was just part of life. We didn't have textbooks and lessons, but we did read, discuss, and write. (Oh, wait, I just remembered she did make us go through Warriner's Grammar, and a British lit textbook.)

 

If you send your child to school, you have to trust the teacher somewhat, and not see her as an enemy. If you can't trust her and she is the enemy, then why in the world are you leaving your child in her care? If he's not getting what he needs at this school, do you have any other school options where the offerings are better? (You will not find a school that will let you manage the teacher.)

 

If you have stuff you want your child to learn, please remember that you are still his first teacher, and you may teach him yourself. That's true whether you go full-bore with homeschooling, or whether you just deliberately pursue some learning together, into the hours you share with him.


Edited by Tibbie Dunbar, 02 February 2017 - 01:50 PM.

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#89 Heigh Ho

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 01:47 PM


And my reasons for wanting my son to be able to have access to his own work is a basic right (even though it sounds like you all don't agree with me on that point)....



Your child has access to his work every single day. He can choose to use his free time to write himself a study guide, or make a list of spelling words, and take that home for further study or review. Right now he is making other choices.
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#90 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 02:09 PM

Could you not acquire your own materials in the 3Rs or any other subjects with which to assess your child at home, and with which to work on skills that you believe he needs help with?

 

My Mom did that, eons before homeschooling was mainstream. She just considered it parenting...she thought the teacher was doing her job and did not get in the way of classroom operations at all, but there were areas that she wanted to be sure we didn't miss.

 

I remember Bible study, poetry memorization, frequent discussions on history and politics, biographies, museum trips and nature study. Learning was just part of life. We didn't have textbooks and lessons, but we did read, discuss, and write. (Oh, wait, I just remembered she did make us go through Warriner's Grammar, and a British lit textbook.)

 

If you send your child to school, you have to trust the teacher somewhat, and not see her as an enemy. If you can't trust her and she is the enemy, then why in the world are you leaving your child in her care? If he's not getting what he needs at this school, do you have any other school options where the offerings are better? (You will not find a school that will let you manage the teacher.)

 

If you have stuff you want your child to learn, please remember that you are still his first teacher, and you may teach him yourself. That's true whether you go full-bore with homeschooling, or whether you just deliberately pursue some learning together, into the hours you share with him.

 

Good points. Thank you for taking the time to chime in!   Your mom sounds like a gal after my own heart!  

When we afterschool - we DO do things that I know are not covered in school - poetry is a great example of something we love reading and discussing at home.... museum trips, etc - these are all things we do as part of afterschooling.  

I really don't see his teacher as our enemy - as I mentioned in my original post - she is absolutely dynamic in so many ways.  Her blog is filled to overflowing with amazing projects and activities that classroom is doing.   Out of the different grade 5 teachers at the school, I would wholeheartedly choose her as my son's teacher - even WITH this disagreement. 

But we have to agree that as parents who afterschool (and who likely work full time) - there is only so much time available to spend - I don't want to have to guess at the parts that my son might need help with - when I can just easily see the work he's already doing... 
If he wants to show us something he's worked on and discuss it at the dinner table - why should he not be able to?  

I know many people here want to make this about a control and trust issue... but you have to agree that it makes so much sense for your child to be able to show you what he's been working on?  



#91 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 02:15 PM

Your child has access to his work every single day. He can choose to use his free time to write himself a study guide, or make a list of spelling words, and take that home for further study or review. Right now he is making other choices.

 

 

You are joking, right?!  

The classroom time is orchestrated by the teacher - there really is no free time unless you count recess time and trips to the library. And what child is going to choose to spend time writing out spelling lists during those times?  

 

 There is never a time during the school day when the teacher says "okay class -  you can do anything you want now".   No, there is designated time to work on certain projects (ie, art projects, science projects, etc) there is even reading time when he can read something of his own choosing...   and for the record I'm actually FINE with the teacher having total control over the school day! ;)

And as for writing your own study guides at home - are you suggesting he does so from memory?  



#92 Tibbie Dunbar

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 02:18 PM

But we have to agree that as parents who afterschool (and who likely work full time) - there is only so much time available to spend - I don't want to have to guess at the parts that my son might need help with - when I can just easily see the work he's already doing... 
If he wants to show us something he's worked on and discuss it at the dinner table - why should he not be able to?  

I know many people here want to make this about a control and trust issue... but you have to agree that it makes so much sense for your child to be able to show you what he's been working on?  

 

 

No, we don't have to agree. :)

 

Working with the exact same hours or minutes per day, you could try to decipher the teacher's pedagogy and methodology intended for your child's works-in-progress, based only on those papers coming home, with no access to her brain, her required standards, her classroom situation, or her lesson plans. And you could then "help" him (according to your perception of what he should be doing, which may not be what the teacher has in mind for that assignment at all)...

 

or you could set objectives and lessons, yourself, and monitor your child's progress through those.

 

With the second tactic, you know exactly what you're doing, yet you're not making a mess for the teacher.


Edited by Tibbie Dunbar, 02 February 2017 - 02:19 PM.

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#93 Tanaqui

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 02:23 PM

There is never a time during the school day when the teacher says "okay class -  you can do anything you want now".   No, there is designated time to work on certain projects (ie, art projects, science projects, etc) there is even reading time when he can read something of his own choosing...   and for the record I'm actually FINE with the teacher having total control over the school day!

 
That might be true in your son's classroom, but there are other classrooms that do run this way, with a designated "choice" time. There are many more classrooms where students who finish their assigned work early can pick from a set number of choices and work on those while the rest of the students finish their task, so long as they aren't disruptive to the class

Edited by Tanaqui, 02 February 2017 - 02:29 PM.

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#94 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 02:26 PM

No, we don't have to agree. :)

 

Working with the exact same hours or minutes per day, you could try to decipher the teacher's pedagogy and methodology intended for your child's works-in-progress, based only on those papers coming home, with no access to her brain, her required standards, her classroom situation, or her lesson plans. And you could then "help" him (according to your perception of what he should be doing, which may not be what the teacher has in mind for that assignment at all)...

 

or you could set objectives and lessons, yourself, and monitor your child's progress through those.

 

With the second tactic, you know exactly what you're doing, yet you're not making a mess for the teacher.

 

Sorry - just so I understand you correctly - you don't think it makes sense to be able to see what your child is working on?  

And I am not understanding your second paragraph at all.  I am not seeing any work come home (except for the 2 tests I mentioned in a previous post), I do not want access to her brain, or her standards or her lesson plans - just want to see what my son has been working on, so that I can then fill in the cracks, etc.   



#95 Heigh Ho

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 02:31 PM

You really need to visit the classroom. Fifth grade has plenty of down time, and you will see advanced students using it wisely, especially when they finish before the time allotted, or are waiting for the class to settle.

Students that want to study their spelling words usually write them in their planner. It goes home nightly..and they use their own choice of methods to study. Many students choose not to bother.

Study guides from memory are fine, but using notes are helpful too. Is your child not taking notes at all? I didn't see what country you are in, but here note taking is taught in fourth grade and its up to the student to continue using this method or remembering what was taught, although in fully included classes the teacher will insist that her notes be copied.

#96 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 02:31 PM

That might be true in your son's classroom, but there are other classrooms that do run this way, with a designated "choice" time. There are many more classrooms where students who finish their assigned work early can pick from a set number of choices and work on those while the rest of the students finish their task, so long as they aren't disruptive to the class.

 

 

The teacher isn't coming home with him. She can't stop him from discussing things at the dinner table.

 

Several people, including the teacher and other teachers you know, have explained to you why it is wise for him not to bring uncompleted work home. He might not bring the work back, or it might get damaged. Parents might do the work for him - and this is not a "fear", this is something that actually happens. Parents might offer him so much help that he's not actually learning to do what he's supposed to be learning, which is how to work on the project in the classroom without that scaffolding. Checking the work in and out of the classroom (and making sure everybody has their projects) would take time away from learning and is just an administrative hassle.

 

Ah - having a free choice time sounds lovely.  My son does not get that.  And so far he tells me that when he completes his work he sometimes has enough time to review it -but doesn't get free time.  

Okay - I think I mentioned this before - but I'm not just talking about uncompleted work (although I'd like to see that as well).  I'm talking about completed and graded work as well - we.do.not.see.any.of.it until the end of the school year!!!  

 



#97 Tanaqui

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 02:35 PM

If he wants to show us something he's worked on and discuss it at the dinner table - why should he not be able to?


The teacher isn't coming home with him. She can't stop him from discussing things at the dinner table.

Several people, including the teacher and other teachers you know, have explained to you why it is wise for him not to bring uncompleted work home. He might not bring the work back, or it might get damaged. Parents might do the work for him - and this is not a "fear", this is something that actually happens. Parents might offer him so much help that he's not actually learning to do what he's supposed to be learning, which is how to work on the project in the classroom without that scaffolding. Checking the work in and out of the classroom (and making sure everybody has their projects) would take time away from learning and is just an administrative hassle.
 

And I am not understanding your second paragraph at all.  I am not seeing any work come home (except for the 2 tests I mentioned in a previous post), I do not want access to her brain, or her standards or her lesson plans - just want to see what my son has been working on, so that I can then fill in the cracks, etc. 

 

You know, every once in a while we see a post - here or elsewhere - about math. Somebody's kid is learning in school to do "partial products" multiplication, or  estimation, or "counting up" as a subtraction strategy and IT IS JUST WRONG. They should just learn to do it THE RIGHT WAY.

 

What these people fail to grasp is that the goal is not partial products or estimation or counting up instead of doing the standard algorithms - the goal is for the kids to have a deeper understanding of why the math works, and a good number sense, so that they make fewer errors when they learn the standard method and have a way of catching their errors. The process is more important than the product.

 

And you just can't get through to them. You can talk until you're blue in the face, but they're convinced that when they learned, they learned the ONE RIGHT WAY and nothing else.

 

How does this relate to the projects? Well, maybe the real goal of a project - something the kids don't quite grasp - is to learn how to collaborate with peers. But when your kid brings it home, you see the same work and you think the goal is to learn to write a better sentence or to do more research. So you focus on that, and he gets a good grade and you think your job is done - but really, he didn't learn the real curriculum, which was to do the work with his classmates, not with his mom.


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#98 Tanaqui

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 02:36 PM

And yes, I agree that you should be able to see some of the completed work - but it might be a good idea to ask the teacher why she isn't sending it home.


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#99 Momma2Luke

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 02:39 PM

You really need to visit the classroom. Fifth grade has plenty of down time, and you will see advanced students using it wisely, especially when they finish before the time allotted, or are waiting for the class to settle.

Students that want to study their spelling words usually write them in their planner. It goes home nightly..and they use their own choice of methods to study. Many students choose not to bother.

Study guides from memory are fine, but using notes are helpful too. Is your child not taking notes at all? I didn't see what country you are in, but here note taking is taught in fourth grade and its up to the student to continue using this method or remembering what was taught, although in fully included classes the teacher will insist that her notes be copied.

 

Spelling isn't taught at our school. And perhaps there are some advanced students that are taking notes for themselves, but notetaking isn't taught whatsoever.  At least it wasn't in grade 4 or 5. And there is definitely NO copying of notes that can be taken homeNow wouldn't that make sense???  I likely would not be having this issue if I could even see notes he's copied.  These are part of the skillsets I'd like to work with him on.   He does have an agenda - but it is used only as a tool for parents and teachers to communicate to each other in.  



#100 itsheresomewhere

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 02:43 PM

Spelling isn't taught at our school. And perhaps there are some advanced students that are taking notes for themselves, but notetaking isn't taught whatsoever.  At least it wasn't in grade 4 or 5. And there is definitely NO copying of notes that can be taken homeNow wouldn't that make sense???  I likely would not be having this issue if I could even see notes he's copied.  These are part of the skillsets I'd like to work with him on.   He does have an agenda - but it is used only as a tool for parents and teachers to communicate to each other in.  

The district may wait until 6th grade/middle school to teach note taking.  They do in my district.  


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