News: Middle school algebra exam is too rigorous for high schools to adopt

[Arcadia]

Read this in a city daily while waiting for library to open. Something to think about if choosing B&M for high school. A few issues were raised in the article.

 

"The problem lies in the kinds of students enrolled in Algebra I in eighth and ninth grade. Students who take algebra in middle school are on a more rigorous pathway through math classes, and are able to master concepts in the class quickly. Students enrolled in ninth-grade algebra, on the other hand, are all performing at varying levels of math proficiency, Sarraf said. That means one high school algebra class might have students performing as many as three or four grade levels behind.

 

The final wasn't the only problem. Before that, local school districts tried to get on the same page by adopting the same instructional materials for math, and voted in favor of using EngageNY — a common core-aligned, rigorous approach to teaching math. EngageNY worked for the middle schools, but students in ninth-grade algebra simply couldn't keep up with the same course material, Sarraf said.

...

Most students coming from middle school go straight into geometry and are successful in meeting that requirement, but keeping ninth-grade Algebra I students on track is a challenge for a multitude of reasons. A majority of the students — about 80 percent — are either English-language learners, special education students or a combination of both. This may not be a big problem for linear equations, but many of the math problems presented in EngageNY and state standardized tests are written in dense paragraphs that need to be understood and decoded for the underlying math problem. This compounds the difficulty for students not familiar with the language, Sarraf said.

...

For now, the district will continue to work towards common ground between middle and high school by way of a shared placement test developed by the Silicon Valley Mathematics Initiative. It should provide an objective measure for placing students in high school math classes, rather than relying on grades which are variable from one school to another and one teacher to another."

http://www.mv-voice.com/print/story/2017/01/20/which-algebra-test-would-you-rather-take

[shinyhappypeople]

This is my favorite part   " That means one high school algebra class might have students performing as many as three or four grade levels behind."  

 

Dude.  You're forcing someone working at 5th or 6th grade level in math to try to learn algebra and then scratching your head about why they can't pass the test?  Seriously???

[Arcadia]

Dude. You're forcing someone working at 5th or 6th grade level in math to try to learn algebra and then scratching your head about why they can't pass the test? Seriously???

They are trying to meet UC a-g requirements and they have also tried remedial math classes. They also mentioned that it is an ESL issue on top of a math issue. I think they already knew results would be bad, just not so bad. My district does algebra 1 in 7th and 8th grade for their middle school. Algebra in 9th would be newcomers to the district and those who failed the summer credit recovery for 8th grade algebra in middle school.

 

From the same article

"Math placement and math "tracking" plays an important role in preparing middle and high school students for graduation, and in fulfilling requirements needed to apply to California's four-year universities. The goal is to get as many students through Algebra II as possible, and the high school district has essentially reached the "plateau" of about 80 percent of students completing the class with a C grade or higher, Sarraf said."

"Sarraf told the Voice in an email that the district used to offer these remedial courses about a decade ago, but that strategy didn't have good results either. Students would frequently get stuck in a cycle of taking the same course over and over again with making progress, and were at greater risk of not meeting graduation requirements."

[yvonne]

Ugh. If it becomes, or already is, the common perception (reality?) that students taking algebra 1 in 9th grade are likely to be "either English-language learners, special education students or a combination of both," or "those who failed the summer credit recovery for 8th grade algebra,"  I may have made a serious mistake in having my dd do a second pass through algebra this year, her 9th grade year.  She's competent with math, it's just taken a little longer for her to truly assimilate it. We made the right decision for her, but how unfortunate that it could get her labeled.

[Arcadia]

She's competent with math, it's just taken a little longer for her to truly assimilate it. We made the right decision for her, but how unfortunate that it could get her labeled.

Your homeschool child's class rank and school profile is going to be very different from her assigned high school. I don't think anyone is going to label her since homeschooling is about choice.

Your neighborhood high school has its annual school profiles online. I just looked at their 2015-16 school profile.

 

The high school district in the article has about a quarter of the student population classified as ESL.

[wapiti]

Ugh. If it becomes, or already is, the common perception (reality?) that students taking algebra 1 in 9th grade are likely to be "either English-language learners, special education students or a combination of both," or "those who failed the summer credit recovery for 8th grade algebra,"  I may have made a serious mistake in having my dd do a second pass through algebra this year, her 9th grade year.  She's competent with math, it's just taken a little longer for her to truly assimilate it. We made the right decision for her, but how unfortunate that it could get her labeled.

 

Labeled by whom?  FWIW, I believe that this is a regional difference.  

 

Furthermore, the only colleges that care are very competitive for admissions or have very competitive programs in STEM subjects (e.g. engineering).  And, it isn't that such programs care when the student took algebra 1, it's that they might consider whether the student took calc in 12th.  If the student isn't going to take calc in 12th, I can't imagine what difference it would make whether the student takes alg 1 in 8th vs 9th.

 

As you said, you made the right decision for your student, which is what's important.

Edited January 24, 2017 by wapiti

[kiana]

Ugh. If it becomes, or already is, the common perception (reality?) that students taking algebra 1 in 9th grade are likely to be "either English-language learners, special education students or a combination of both," or "those who failed the summer credit recovery for 8th grade algebra,"  I may have made a serious mistake in having my dd do a second pass through algebra this year, her 9th grade year.  She's competent with math, it's just taken a little longer for her to truly assimilate it. We made the right decision for her, but how unfortunate that it could get her labeled.

 

Not really, because these students struggle and get helped through algebra and geometry and then still get low scores on entrance exams. If your DD does excellent work in her high school math classes starting with algebra 1 and genuinely learns it and does well on entrance exams, it'll show that she's not one of those.

[teachermom2834]

Ugh. If it becomes, or already is, the common perception (reality?) that students taking algebra 1 in 9th grade are likely to be "either English-language learners, special education students or a combination of both," or "those who failed the summer credit recovery for 8th grade algebra,"  I may have made a serious mistake in having my dd do a second pass through algebra this year, her 9th grade year.  She's competent with math, it's just taken a little longer for her to truly assimilate it. We made the right decision for her, but how unfortunate that it could get her labeled.

 

Oh don't worry about this.  I have one kid that had to do algebra 1 in 9th and it is fine. You also can always double up or add credits quickly via dual enrollment if you feel necessary but getting the algebra 1 solid is the right choice.

 

This is a case of comparing apples to oranges with homeschooling vs. public school.  

[JoJosMom]

Labeled by whom?  FWIW, I believe that this is a regional difference.  

 

Furthermore, the only colleges that care are very competitive for admissions or have very competitive programs in STEM subjects (e.g. engineering).  And, it isn't that such programs care when the student took algebra 1, it's that they might consider whether the student took calc in 12th.  If the student isn't going to take calc in 12th, I can't imagine what difference it would make whether the student takes alg 1 in 8th vs 9th.

 

As you said, you made the right decision for your student, which is what's important.

 

Yes.  I don't know that I would take seriously anything that comes out of the Silicon Valley and it's environs.  It's not exactly a good proxy for "normal."  (In terms of educational standards.)

[shinyhappypeople]

They are trying to meet UC a-g requirements and they have also tried remedial math classes. They also mentioned that it is an ESL issue on top of a math issue. I think they already knew results would be bad, just not so bad. My district does algebra 1 in 7th and 8th grade for their middle school. Algebra in 9th would be newcomers to the district and those who failed the summer credit recovery for 8th grade algebra in middle school.

 

From the same article

"Math placement and math "tracking" plays an important role in preparing middle and high school students for graduation, and in fulfilling requirements needed to apply to California's four-year universities. The goal is to get as many students through Algebra II as possible, and the high school district has essentially reached the "plateau" of about 80 percent of students completing the class with a C grade or higher, Sarraf said."

"Sarraf told the Voice in an email that the district used to offer these remedial courses about a decade ago, but that strategy didn't have good results either. Students would frequently get stuck in a cycle of taking the same course over and over again with making progress, and were at greater risk of not meeting graduation requirements."

Ah, I see.  As I parent I would push back HARD.  

 

(a little general ranting follows)The question the school needs to ask itself is WHY aren't  our remedial math classes effective?  Either you want kids who can do math to the best of the ability (which can vary, says the mom of a kid with LDs) or you want to push kids through algebra before they're ready.  Pick one.  You can't have both.   

 

Besides, the UC path isn't for every kid.  By trying to prepare ALL kids for entrance into a UC they end up miserably failing a whole bunch of them. 

 

As far as the ELL...  just translate the dang test.  Y'all know you have multiple people within the district who could easily do it.

 

Public schools here in California make me  :banghead: 

 

Arcadia, thank you for reminding me why my I homeschool.

Edited January 25, 2017 by shinyhappypeople

[Arcadia]

Besides, the UC path isn't for every kid. By (trying) to prepare ALL kids for entrance into a UC they end up miserably failing a whole bunch of them.

 

As far as the ELL... just translate the dang test. Y'all know you have multiple people within the district who could easily do it.

Tell that to our state's Department of Education about the a-g requirements :(

 

Actually if they used EngageNY for the algebra 1 test, there is already a Spanish version of it from June 2014 to August 2016. No translation effort required. http://www.nysedregents.org/algebraone/spanish/

 

There has been many news articles over the years about the failure of math remedial classes in California. Then there is the self esteem issue that reporters like to talk about if kids can't do algebra in 9th. It is a public school mess. Which is why I said in my first post that it is a buyer's beware situation if your child is going back to B&M high school for 9th grade.

[Daria]

Ugh. If it becomes, or already is, the common perception (reality?) that students taking algebra 1 in 9th grade are likely to be "either English-language learners, special education students or a combination of both," or "those who failed the summer credit recovery for 8th grade algebra,"  I may have made a serious mistake in having my dd do a second pass through algebra this year, her 9th grade year.  She's competent with math, it's just taken a little longer for her to truly assimilate it. We made the right decision for her, but how unfortunate that it could get her labeled.

 

Algebra 1 in 9th is definitely a remedial class in my district.  I am surprised how many students on WTM take it in 9th, because that is definitely not the norm where I live.  I should add that I have a kid on the Algebra 1 in 9th track, but I would consider him a student whose math learning is impacted by his disability.

 

I really dislike the EngageNY curriculum though.  I think another way to look at this is that advanced math kids, with strong language skills, and often home support, are able to handle a poorly designed curriculum better than students who are more vulnerable due to disability, language learning status, or environmental challenges. 

[Daria]

Tell that to our state's Department of Education about the a-g requirements :(

 

Actually if they used EngageNY for the algebra 1 test, there is already a Spanish version of it from June 2014 to August 2016. No translation effort required. http://www.nysedregents.org/algebraone/spanish/

 

There has been many news articles over the years about the failure of math remedial classes in California. Then there is the self esteem issue that reporters like to talk about if kids can't do algebra in 9th. It is a public school mess. Which is why I said in my first post that it is a buyer's beware situation if your child is going back to B&M high school for 9th grade.

 

But a Spanish version isn't helpful unless kids are actually taught in Spanish.

 

A kid who moves to the U.S. in 5th grade, and continues to speak Spanish at home, isn't going to have the same fluency in 9th as a native speaker.  But they also won't have math vocabulary, or academic vocabulary in Spanish.  They'll struggle with complex sentence structures on an English language test, but even if their Spanish decoding is age appropriate (which is unlikely, given that they won't have had the same volume of practice if school is in English) they won't be able to understand  specialized terms like "trapezoid" or "intercept" in Spanish.

[shinyhappypeople]

Tell that to our state's Department of Education about the a-g requirements :(

 

Actually if they used EngageNY for the algebra 1 test, there is already a Spanish version of it from June 2014 to August 2016. No translation effort required. http://www.nysedregents.org/algebraone/spanish/

 

There has been many news articles over the years about the failure of math remedial classes in California. Then there is the self esteem issue that reporters like to talk about if kids can't do algebra in 9th. It is a public school mess. Which is why I said in my first post that it is a buyer's beware situation if your child is going back to B&M high school for 9th grade.

 

Solidarity, sister.  I'm in California, too, and lately I've been toying with the idea of sending DD to the public high school.  Um... nevermind.  We'll just keep homeschooling. 

[chiguirre]

Ah, I see.  As I parent I would push back HARD.  

 

(a little general ranting follows)The question the school needs to ask itself is WHY aren't  oour remedial math classes effective?  Either you want kids who can do math to the best of the ability (which can vary, says the mom of a kid with LDs) or you want to push kids through algebra before they're ready.  Pick one.  You can't have both.   

 

Besides, the UC path isn't for every kid.  By (trying) to prepare ALL kids for entrance into a UC they end up miserably failing a whole bunch of them. 

 

As far as the ELL...  just translate the dang test.  Y'all know you have multiple people within the district who could easily do it.

 

Public schools here in California make me  :banghead: 

 

Arcadia, thank you for reminding me why my I homeschool.

 

It's not just California. Texas is even more ridiculous. Geezle is in "Geometry" this year because he's in 10th grade. Math is very hard for him. He can't retain math facts, has very poor number sense and needs a calculator to make change. He is not doing any geometry at all, he's doing a special ed workbook on handling money. But, every sophomore in TX must be in Geometry so he is.

 

Here, the kids who are AP track take Algebra 1 in 8th grade. Kids who are college bound but not to highly selective schools or STEM fields take it in 9th.

[yvonne]

Solidarity, sister.  I'm in California, too, and lately I've been toying with the idea of sending DD to the public high school.  Um... nevermind.  We'll just keep homeschooling. 

 

Yes!  We're in CA, too, and every time I start thinking that maaaaaybe the public high school would be better than piecing together classes from online/local..., _some_thing comes up that makes me thing... naw, never mind!  What we're doing seems to be working, why risk messing it up.....

[vonfirmath]

It's not just California. Texas is even more ridiculous. Geezle is in "Geometry" this year because he's in 10th grade. Math is very hard for him. He can't retain math facts, has very poor number sense and needs a calculator to make change. He is not doing any geometry at all, he's doing a special ed workbook on handling money. But, every sophomore in TX must be in Geometry so he is.

 

Here, the kids who are AP track take Algebra 1 in 8th grade. Kids who are college bound but not to highly selective schools or STEM fields take it in 9th.

 

This pretty much matches with my experience in math in Texas in the late 80s, early 90s. Algebra I in 8th grade for AP/Gifted and Talented. College Bound took it in 9th.