Speech Therapy without IEP?!

[MASHomeschooler]

My youngest is going to school this year (2nd grade). At our 1st quarter parent-teacher conference, the teacher mentioned that my daughter's speech enunciation seemed slightly behind so we might want to start the process of assessment, etc. I said I was fine with that. I don't remember signing anything, but it's possible I signed one of the "you can observe/screen her" papers. (I don't remember what everything's called, but my older 2 both had IEPs for speech, so I have an idea of the process.) Her teacher went on maternity leave shortly thereafter and I mostly forgot about it. I agree with her unofficial assessment of "seems slightly behind" and am fine either way - waiting and seeing or starting speech therapy.

 

However, today my daughter mentioned she didn't get her math done in class because she was in speech. Upon further questioning, this is her third time going and she is in a group of 4. She has been told she now goes every Thursday, and this started the week before break. I have heard nothing from the teacher since the initial discussion, and certainly not had an IEP meeting or anything. Isn't this illegal? In addition, aren't they supposed to avoid missing important subjects like math? I am planning to write the teacher (nicely) to clarify what' going on, but I want to make sure I have everything straight with regard to what's supposed to happen.

 

Edited January 20, 2017 by MASHomeschooler

[PeterPan]

Yes, if her current teacher doesn't know, call the SN coor and find out. 

[MASHomeschooler]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The regular teacher returned after Thanksgiving, so nothing happened (afaik) while the long-term sub was in charge. This is all after the regular teacher returned, but without any additional communication from her, and no IEP meeting or notification or anything.

 

ETA: And I do plan to contact her, but I just want to make sure I understand how it's supposed to be working (legally) before discussing it with her.

Edited January 20, 2017 by MASHomeschooler

[OneStepAtATime]

I don't know if it is illegal but it is odd and inappropriate at the very least.  I would ask specifically for a face to face or telephone meeting ASAP.  A lot might get lost in the translation through a note, letter, email or text.

Edited January 20, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[PeterPan]

Some schools will go ahead and do intervention or call it RTI. That's why I'm suggest you start by simply asking what is happening and where she is in the IEP process and whether they're still proceeding with evals. I don't know about for speech, but yes just in general they will do RTI as part of the IEP process. So I wouldn't assume they violated laws or did anything weird.

 

If you call the SN coor, she can explain things to you. Or drop an email. You can cc to the administrative rep who was at the first meeting. Was a principal or someone there? If you really want a response, cc your question to that person and watch the fur fly. :D

[PeterPan]

You're definitely right to be concerned about the timing of the pullouts. You'll definitely want to get that fixed.

[MASHomeschooler]

Thanks. I'll go ahead and discuss with her. I'm just trying to make sure I understand what they're required to do so I can compare it to what they are doing/have done when she tells me. Obviously I can share my personal concerns regardless, but I think knowing what they're legally required to do will give me a better leg to stand on.

 

There wasn't any first meeting. Just a mention at the parent-teacher conference (just me and the teacher), in which I believe I only verbally agreed I'd be fine with starting the process. It's possible I signed an agreement to observe at that time (I don't think I did, though), but definitely have received no written notices or meetings, not even a mention of it since then. I remember with my older ones there were meetings at each step - 2 or 3 before any therapy sessions even started, and papers to sign at each of them saying that I agreed to the next step.

 

And I will definitely work on the timing either way. Thanks again.

[PeterPan]

You could contact the SN coor and ask for the date when the teacher put through the request to begin evals. If that didn't get done, the timeline never started. I agree it's weird and doesn't make sense at all. When I found administrators in error, they never admitted it. They can change dates in records, etc. and cover their tails.

[PeterPan]

Remember, by the time you get to the level of the SN coor, these are people who live in fear of legal compliance and meeting timelines. So you're not likely to get a straight, honest answer. What you can get is a correction of the problem. What SHOULD be happening is that the teacher filed after that meeting, the 30 day parent meeting was done, the form was signed, and evals begun. And if it wasn't, they know and you know they violated the law. The law doesn't give a rip about a teacher needing time off or having health problems or anything else. 

 

The problem is asking the right person and asking in such a way that the person who screwed up doesn't cover it up. I thought you said they filed paperwork and had a meeting and at least a consent to eval. If you had that initial meeting and signed a consent to eval, then RTI during that would be common. But if they didn't have that meeting, they screwed up. So you want some kind of paper trail and you want to get that worked on, which means contacting the SN coor, not just the teacher. And it all has to be kinda extra polite and seemingly non-threatening, because it's stuff that gets people in big trouble, which they KNOW.

[MASHomeschooler]

OK, thanks.  A lot to keep in mind. It seems weird because I don't have any problem with her getting evaluated and getting the speech therapy, just concerned with doing it all without any communication, much less following the legal procedure. As annoying as meeting at each step sometimes was with the others, it's required for a good reason.

 

And sorry for the confusion. It's been awhile since the parent-teacher conference, and there were other things to sign then, so I'm not 100% certain that I didn't sign anything even though I don't think I did. But there was definitely no one else there, and it wasn't any official IEP thing - at the most, it would have been an "agree to observe/screen" (ETA: definitely not to evaluate). I think I remember signing those with my first 2 kids before their first meetings.

 

ETA: I think I remember the process for my older kids being 1. Sign agreement to observe/screen 2. SLP does observation/screening 3. Meeting with everyone, in which I agree to full evaluation 4. SLP does evaluation 5. Meeting with everyone, in which I agree to starting therapy, including specific timing 6. Therapy starts. So I'm saying at most I did step 1, but I don't even think I did that. Definitely didn't do 3 or 5. Then today I find out it looks like they're in step 6 with her.

Edited January 20, 2017 by MASHomeschooler

[Storygirl]

I can't tell you if it is illegal, but I can tell you that before our school pulls anyone out for small groups or intervention, they send a permission form home for a parent to sign. Our school is private but works with the local public schools on IEPs and follows the federal guidelines for procedures.

 

I believe federal law requires notifying parents before any change in placement, but whether your situation is a change in placement...I don't know.

[PeterPan]

Your state dept of ed will have on their site pdf copies of all the forms used in your state for the IEP process. That will allow you to get the names. Then you simply ask what it was you signed. That way you can determine where you are. But fact remains, if the teacher said she was putting through the request to begin the IEP process, she should have done that. So there's a stink if you THOUGHT that was being done and that hasn't been done. It's a stink because that filing by her would have started the legal 120 day timeline, a very important protection. 

 

Like Story says, you may have signed a permission. They may have sent you stuff and it went to an old address. You won't know till you ask. 

 

Well let us know how it pans out! Hopefully it's a simple explanation! :)

[Crimson Wife]

We just studied the "collaborative" model of intervention in my language disorders class last semester. It is part of RTI and the school doesn't need an IEP to do "Tier II" RTI. Tier III would require an IEP.

 

The school is NOT supposed to do Tier II small-group pull-outs during core academics. I would definitely raise a stink about that.

[MASHomeschooler]

We just studied the "collaborative" model of intervention in my language disorders class last semester. It is part of RTI and the school doesn't need an IEP to do "Tier II" RTI. Tier III would require an IEP.

 

The school is NOT supposed to do Tier II small-group pull-outs during core academics. I would definitely raise a stink about that.

 

Thanks; this is very helpful. Is there not even a requirement to let us know they're pulling her out of class if it is Tier II? 

[MASHomeschooler]

Your state dept of ed will have on their site pdf copies of all the forms used in your state for the IEP process. That will allow you to get the names. Then you simply ask what it was you signed. That way you can determine where you are. But fact remains, if the teacher said she was putting through the request to begin the IEP process, she should have done that. So there's a stink if you THOUGHT that was being done and that hasn't been done. It's a stink because that filing by her would have started the legal 120 day timeline, a very important protection. 

 

Like Story says, you may have signed a permission. They may have sent you stuff and it went to an old address. You won't know till you ask. 

 

Well let us know how it pans out! Hopefully it's a simple explanation! :)

 

Actually I thought we'd basically just agreed that we'd probably start the process "at some time" - but not actually started the process, if that makes sense. I don't know, though - does discussing it all officially start the process? We've been at the same address since my oldest started in the district, so that's not it. I will be sure to let you know what I find out. Thanks again. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by MASHomeschooler

[Sierade]

Schools are not required to have parental consent before beginning Tier II interventions. In my experience, it's typical for the classroom teacher to inform the parents that such interventions are taking place, but in some cases it is very informal ("I'm a little concerned with J's reading, so Ms. K is going to be working with him and three other students twice a week"). In cases where the student is struggling more, especially when it seems likely that they will eventually need special education services, meetings are more likely to be held and the RTI process explained to the parents. Still, this is not same type of formal meeting that takes place during the IEP process. 

 

Before beginning a formal evaluation (and entering Tier III/special education/IEP territory), the school is required to obtain formal, written consent from the parents. 

 

I do think it is worthwhile to speak with the teacher about the timing of the pull-outs. If the SLP is pulling children from different classes for this small group, it may be difficult to time it perfectly, but regularly missing math would not be acceptable. It sounds like a meeting to discuss scheduling, your daughter's speech goals, etc. would be helpful. 

[MASHomeschooler]

I was able to talk with the teacher, and it sounds like it is Tier II. She didn't use that term, but said that the SLP wanted to meet with her 6 times to gather data to decide whether to pursue an MET/IEP. She said she had thought the SLP was going to contact me and apologized that no one had. And she said she will ask her to find a different time to do the last 3 sessions. Thanks, everyone, for your help in figuring out what was going on and what we can expect and what's reasonable or not.

[Crimson Wife]

One thing to watch out for is schools using RTI as a way to shirk their legal responsibilities to provide IEP services to students who need them. This is the potential issue I'm having wrt my daughter and reading. Right now she's considered "at risk" and is receiving Tier II intervention. She's doing Lexia and her teacher just started some new curriculum that I've never heard of called Sonday. It says it's O-G but for the cost IMHO they should've gotten Wilson or Slingerland or something with an actual track record of success. :glare: I worry that the Tier II stuff will improve things just enough to get her reading scores into the borderline low range and remaining off her IEP. 

 

Now if your child's speech issue is mild, then it may not be a big deal to try RTI first.

[maize]

Don't want to derail the thread but can someone please tell me what RTI stands for?

[Caroline]

Don't want to derail the thread but can someone please tell me what RTI stands for?

Response to Intervention

[Daria]

We just studied the "collaborative" model of intervention in my language disorders class last semester. It is part of RTI and the school doesn't need an IEP to do "Tier II" RTI. Tier III would require an IEP.

 

The school is NOT supposed to do Tier II small-group pull-outs during core academics. I would definitely raise a stink about that.

 

I agree that it could be an RTI group.  RTI doesn't necessarily require parental consent, although generally it includes parental notification.

 

To clarify, in some places Tiers 1 and 2 are intervention, and Tier 3 is special ed, so Tier 3 would require an IEP.  If schools number that way, Gen Ed is not considered a Tier.  In some places, Gen Ed and regular classroom interventions that everyone gets are considered Tier 1, and Tiers 2 and 3 are considered intervention, Special Ed is either considered Tier 4, or is not considered a Tier but a whole different system.  So, if they say "This is Tier 3 RTI" that doesn't necessarily make it illegal.  

 

And no, in theory RTI shouldn't cause a kid to miss core instruction, or if it does, there should be a plan (e.g. kid misses their math independent work time, but another time is set aside for them to do the independent work). 

 

Depending on exactly what paperwork you signed, they may be out of compliance with time lines, if they didn't hold a meeting. 

[katilac]

:confused1:

 

My dd had speech therapy with no IEP. We did sign approval paperwork, but definitely did not go through any IEP process. Evaluation, yep she needs speech therapy, please sign here . . . 

[PeterPan]

Crimson, Sonday had an ad in the recent magazine (digital) from the Eides. Apparently it's legit. I was just looking at it last night, and it kinda looks like it's attempting to be like Barton for ps, in that it's complete, all there. Remember OG training is concepts and open-ended, meaning tutors have to write lesson plans. So probably Sonday is fine. The more upsetting thing is they're not getting the diagnosis done before the do they intervention, meaning you don't get your access to BARD, tech, answers, etc.

[redsquirrel]

It's pretty common with young kids. An SLP will make a group of kids, some have IEPs and some don't, and have them do speech therapy games together. It's usually a board game or a craft type activity. Sometimes the kids without IEPs are there to provide natural modeling of appropriate speech for their peers. Sometimes they are kids who simple need a little practice.

 

Here it isn't uncommom to have SLPs assigned to k-2 classrooms where they run group activities for groups of kids throughout the day, as well as interacting with the kids alongside a teacher. The SLP might split time between two school rooms during the day. Not all the kids need speech therapy but it is considered enrichment for those who don't.

 

Many parents prefer their kids get therapy without the IEP. The don't want the IEP on their kid;s school records. It is very common for parents to ask how their kids can get therapy without having to have an evaluation or 'being slapped with a label" etc. I've seen parents get very upset at the idea of needing an IEP and go to lengths to avoid one.

 

When my son was getting SLT at a public school as a homeschooled child he could only be in groups outside the physical classroom and only in groups in which all member had an IEP. Because he wasn't an enrolled student he wasn't supposed to be entering the classroom or spending time with non IEP students.  Hence, he got a lot more individual therapy than the other kids.