Math Help- Saxon vs. Math U See

[rachaeloren]

I'm considering switching out of Saxon and into Math U See. After reading the new edition of TWTM and her emphasis on conceptual learning, I feel like in the area of place value (which almost all of math seems to hinge on), Saxon is really weak conceptually in how they teach it. My son is in 2nd grade and doing Saxon math 3. He is extremely bright when it comes to math so I never really worried about him conceptually, until I started reading more about it. He seems to be doing great with Saxon, but I'm just worried it's not enough conceptually. I know in TWTM it says Math U See is a good option but that you should supplement some. Does that mean on memorization of math facts? Or something else? I don't want to be constantly having to come up with extra stuff. My daughter started Saxon 1 this year and I think the jumping around from topic to topic is confusing to her. She is definitely going to need more of a Math U See manipulative based program. 

 

Any thoughts? I'm fairly at peace with my younger student switching out to Math U See, but am slightly panicked about switching my son who has only ever done Saxon. Because he has much more of a math, science, computer mind, I want to make sure I'm doing the best thing for him. You used to hear homeschool communities and many classical groups rave about Saxon, but now that tide seems to be turning. 

 

Also, comparing the two (Saxon and Math U See), it seems like Saxon covers way more and that Math U See is so quick and "easy" with not much to it. Compared to Saxon, I feel like we would missing A LOT of stuff using Math U See. Or is it just different across the whole curriculum? 

Edited January 15, 2017 by rachaeloren

[wapiti]

If you are looking for more conceptual teaching of place value, take a look at Singapore, Math Mammoth, Miquon, Right Start.

[HomeAgain]

You can see the scope and sequence of each MUS book on their site.

 

We switched from Saxon to MUS when my oldest was in........3rd, I think.  We started with Gamma, which put him "behind" where he would have been in Saxon.  But it did allow him to move a little slower, grasp the concepts very well (and after working with the blocks, the information from Alpha/Beta that was in the review was easy to understand).  He did all the Greek books that followed: Delta, Epsilon, Zeta, and then moved on to pre-algebra.  It was at that point that we started supplementing.  We added in Hands On Equations, LoFred, and a few other small things before ditching MUS the following year for AoPS. 

He got a really good foundation.  He did not have a lot of word problems in MUS, so maybe a few of those might be nice to throw in, but he got a good foundation.  It did not hinder him in the least - he does number sense competitions at his school, is taking AP calculus, and just overall is good with numbers.  I don't regret our decision to use MUS in the least.  I think I might have, if we had continued it through high school math, but the Greek series works.

 

 

Having written all that, and having all the dvds and blocks in the house, it is not something I am using with my mathy 6yo.  MEP provides more of his needs and makes him think about numbers in different ways at an earlier age.  He likes the puzzles in it.  I like that it has made him unafraid to try other math.  He bounces between MEP and a program of his choice and thinks about numbers in a different way than his brother.  While his brother was very visual and concrete, the 6yo is more logical and abstract.  MUS was a very poor fit for him, both in terms of pacing and expectation.

[wendyroo]

Before jumping ship from Saxon, maybe you could see if you really have a problem.  I am NOT a Saxon fan, but I truly believe that some kids get plenty out of it and develop a deep conceptual understanding (I would say in spite of the program and not because if it, but that is neither here nor there).

 

As wapiti mentioned above, two programs which are considered very rigorous and conceptual are Singapore and Math Mammoth.  Both offer free online placement tests which would allow you to assess how your son is doing compared to a standard outside of Saxon.

 

Here are the Singapore tests and here are the Math Mammoth tests.  I would look at the tests, see which ones seem to test the types of material your son has covered and have him do one or both.  If he aces them, then I wouldn't fix something that isn't broken.

 

OTOH, if he struggles with the more conceptual questions on the placement tests then I would consider switching him to a different program.  I used to use Singapore Primary Math with my kids, and I liked that a lot, but it became too teacher intensive as I had to juggle more kids.  Now I use Math Mammoth and I think it does a very good job...plus it is cheap.  I have never used it, but I have heard that Singapore Math in Focus is a more open and go Singapore option.  If he likes comics and math puzzles, you could also try Beast Academy.

 

Wendy

[bethben]

I do both. I never thought I would be a two math kinda person, but dd was finishing MUS really quickly and we are using Saxon at half speed. I'm not sure what we'll do when she gets behind grade level for Saxon, but it seems to work well.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mathmarm]

How are you using Saxon? Are you doing the Math Meetings and the fact practice and using the manipulatives as directed as well as allowing free play with them? Are you teaching according to the script or do you browse the script and then go your own way with the topics? Do you combine 

 

I don't know if switching to a whole new program is the answer. Can't you just get some base-10 blocks and do a couple of extra lessons on that and make a note in your Saxon teachers manual to do a place value exercise every few days as it sinks in?

 

I have not seen Saxon Math 1-3, but I'm very interested in how the 1st-3rd grade program develops concepts gradually and think that it sounds impressive. I'm interested to know why you feel that it lacks conceptual teaching.

 

Since you want to switch your 1st grade, maybe you can get MUS Alpha and use that as a group lesson with BOTH of  them--that'll give your kids more practice with place-value and the blocks and allow you to see how your son does with the MUS approach and if you think that he needs that for ALL of arithmetic or not.

[mschickie]

I am not a huge fan of Saxon for 1st-3rd grades (love it for 4th and up though).  My dd did Horizons which worked great for her.  I liked the incremental/spiral approach of Horizons.  It also had opportunities for using manipulatives if needed.  Math U See tends to be more manipulative heavy and is a mastery based approach.  I am not a fan of master based because when I was teaching Math (and having to use mastery based books) I found kids forgetting previous topics where as with the incremental approach there is a lot of review and reinforcement through out the year.  I know some kids do not like that but I found it to be one of the best ways to make the material stick with them.

[Peaceseeker]

We used Math U see for 1st-4th/5th. I found it to be very strong conceptually in the early grades, especially with a visual, hands on learner like I had. Both of my kids have a great grasp of place value and understanding the 'why' of math. I had a kid who really needed manipulatives and drawings to understand math. We still do a good bit of drawing to this day in pre-algebra. I have to give MUS credit for that solid base. However (in my humble opinion) MUS was weak on word problems and I did find myself supplementing math over the years. It also stays on one topic for a long time. This is supposed to ensure mastery but may also ensure boredom. At least for my kids it did. I am not a MUS basher by any means, as we got a good foundation out of the program and a lot of families I know love it.

 

I did make the switch to Math Mammoth when my kids were in 4th and 6th and while we did have to do a bit of catch up (mostly in geometry), both my kids did fine with the switch overall despite all the dire warnings I heard about changing math programs with different sequences. I like that Math Mammoth is also very conceptual and they offer workbooks in color which is a plus for my visual learner. It stays on topics long enough for my kids to get a good grasp on them without boring them. I wish I had found Math Mammoth when they were younger although we did get a good foundation with MUS.

 

I can't speak on Saxon as I have never used it. I looked at it a couple of times, but I was fairly sure it would make my children cry. I did not test the theory.

Edited January 17, 2017 by CoffeeMama11

[Ellie]

I'm considering switching out of Saxon and into Math U See. After reading the new edition of TWTM and her emphasis on conceptual learning, I feel like in the area of place value (which almost all of math seems to hinge on), Saxon is really weak conceptually in how they teach it. My son is in 2nd grade and doing Saxon math 3. He is extremely bright when it comes to math so I never really worried about him conceptually, until I started reading more about it. He seems to be doing great with Saxon, but I'm just worried it's not enough conceptually. I know in TWTM it says Math U See is a good option but that you should supplement some. Does that mean on memorization of math facts? Or something else? I don't want to be constantly having to come up with extra stuff. My daughter started Saxon 1 this year and I think the jumping around from topic to topic is confusing to her. She is definitely going to need more of a Math U See manipulative based program. 

 

Any thoughts? I'm fairly at peace with my younger student switching out to Math U See, but am slightly panicked about switching my son who has only ever done Saxon. Because he has much more of a math, science, computer mind, I want to make sure I'm doing the best thing for him. You used to hear homeschool communities and many classical groups rave about Saxon, but now that tide seems to be turning. 

 

Also, comparing the two (Saxon and Math U See), it seems like Saxon covers way more and that Math U See is so quick and "easy" with not much to it. Compared to Saxon, I feel like we would missing A LOT of stuff using Math U See. Or is it just different across the whole curriculum? 

 

You're only looking at the third grade. If he's doing well with Saxon, then stick with it, because it all works out in time.