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Just so DONE with math...


alisoncooks
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*sigh*

 

Oldest DD used CLE Math for 2-4th grade, and we liked it.  However, she did poorly on her end-of-year test (required by the state), and the lessons were getting looooong --resulting in whining and groaning-- so I decided to switch to Something Different this year.

 

Since I already owned Math Mammoth (and never used it) we we went that.

 

For the most part, I really like MM, but I feel like every lesson is a struggle for DD.  She claims she doesn't understand, no matter how I demonstrate or explain (we do every lesson together).  We barely squeak through 1-page (front and back) a day.  I feel like we are falling farther and farther behind (she's technically 5th grade, but we're doing MM4 because it felt more advanced than where we left off in CLE4).  At the rate we're going, she will not finish MM4 this year (I had hoped to get through all of 4A-B and part of 5A, but nope).

 

Anyway, I'm just torn.  I've found myself looking at the sample lessons on the Teaching Textbooks website, toying with the thought of removing myself from the equation.  This DD used to do well in math, and I'm at a loss what to do for this "I don't get it" rut we're in....

 

Could MM just not be a good fit? Will the world implode, and my child never get into college, if I switch to TT? ;)

Is this a preteen thing, the working so slowly and brain fog?

Edited by alisoncooks
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FWIW, MM was an awful fit here.  Great program.  Just not a good fit for my kids.  CLE worked better but I needed to incorporate things like Beast Academy for the conceptual side to finally click and I had to shorten the CLE lessons or the kids got discouraged and bored and lost focus.  Easy to do, though.  I just cut out a few review problems from each light unit.

 

As for your particular situation, could it be she has some foundational gaps that are causing her some struggles now that she is working through higher math problems?  Is there any chance she is weak on place value or basic subitization skills?

 

Personally, I would maybe take a few days break to reset, then try using some manipulatives, play some math games (NOT games that test), and try to dig through where the disconnect is.  Go back as far as is needed to see if there are gaps somewhere, some level of misunderstanding that is causing her to struggle.

 

You say she was good at math once.  What was she doing that made you think that and when did it start to seem to change?

 

And I agree with HomeAgain, maybe something like MUS, where you and she watch the videos together, might help.  It might solidify any foundational issues and you are not the main instructor, even if you are still directly involved.  

 

TT can be a great choice, too, but sometimes if a child is already struggling it may not explain enough or review enough to really help.  Depends on the child and the underlying cause of the struggles.

 

ETA:  When I mentioned MUS I was thinking that sometimes with my kids, when we get tense about a subject they can start tuning me out.  At that point, we are all too stressed to learn.  Me continuing to rattle on does no one any good.  If I can turn over instruction to another source at least temporarily it helps us all reset.  I generally use CTC Math as a supplement and we also turn to it and to Youtube for additional video instruction if my explanations are not making sense to them.

 

 Another thing you might consider is how wordy you are and how strong her math vocabulary is.  I realized that DD was really struggling when I gave long explanations.  Turns out she has low processing speed and poor word retrieval.  I was bombarding her with all of these math terms but not giving her enough time to translate and internalize.  I think it is sort of like getting an explanation in a foreign language you are only superficially familiar with.  We now work a LOT on mastery of math vocabulary and I try not to talk too terribly much or too quickly when going over a lesson.  I also try to give her a lot of space and quiet to process things before moving on or pushing for an answer.

Edited by OneStepAtATime
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MM4 is a BEAST!!  We just finished it, and it took f.o.r.e.v.e.r.  It just covers so many computation-heavy topics.

 

What section are you on, and in what way is your daughter struggling?

 

If she is stuck on some of the more tangential Chapter 1 topics (Order of Operations, Pascal’s Triangle, Money and Discounts) then I would move on and see how she does with the place value in Chapter 2.  If she is struggling with Chapter 2, then I would be tempted to go back and revisit the place value chapter in 3b.  

 

If she is struggling with Chapter 3...well, multi-digit multiplication is a high hurdle for a lot of kids.  If that is the problem, I would probably counter-intuitively slow down and use manipulatives to really illustrate and understand each step of the process.  If she needs it, the second chapter in 3a teaches different ways to think about the concept of multiplication.

 

In the mean time, to keep things moving, you could have her simultaneously work through 4a Chapter 4 on time and measurement.  If she were to do just a front or a back from Chapter 3 and both a front and a back from Chapter 4 each day (and not even necessarily all the time and measurement problems), then she would be moving faster than the suggested pace.

 

Wendy

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What is the problem, specifically? Why is she whining?

 

I wouldn't put math in the hands of a child that doesn't want to do math, fwiw. Not until it gets much worse than you're describing, anyway.

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FWIW, MM was an awful fit here.  Great program.  Just not a good fit for my kids.  CLE worked better but I needed to incorporate things like Beast Academy for the conceptual side to finally click and I had to shorten the CLE lessons or the kids got discouraged and bored and lost focus.  Easy to do, though.  I just cut out a few review problems from each light unit.  â€‹That sounds reasonable...but I know ME and I know I won't keep 2 programs floating.  I've considered buying Beast Academy just because my kids love graphic novels/comic books...but I have a feeling that if I try to do two maths, they would implode.  :001_rolleyes: 

 

As for your particular situation, could it be she has some foundational gaps that are causing her some struggles now that she is working through higher math problems?  Is there any chance she is weak on place value or basic subitization skills?   I'd say she's strong in both of those.  She doesn't have immediate recall on all her multiplication/division facts, but she does know most.  Perhaps she feels overwhelmed now that she's faced with multi-digit multiplication or balancing equations with multiple steps. (I do fact practice separately, and she's allowed to use a "cheat sheet" for part of her lessons.) She also has a hard time "hearing" what a word problem is asking of her. 

 

Personally, I would maybe take a few days break to reset, then try using some manipulatives, play some math games (NOT games that test), and try to dig through where the disconnect is.  Go back as far as is needed to see if there are gaps somewhere, some level of misunderstanding that is causing her to struggle.

 

You say she was good at math once.  What was she doing that made you think that and when did it start to seem to change? When she was little, she understood number bonds and addition facts quickly.  She was strong with mental math problems (she still HATES having to show work) and finding missing numbers.  I would say that within the last year, when problems became multi-step, she began to struggle.  She also tends to mentally wander -- staring at her paper, not working, until I nudge her to get to work.  Problem after problem.

 

And I agree with HomeAgain, maybe something like MUS, where you and she watch the videos together, might help.  It might solidify any foundational issues and you are not the main instructor, even if you are still directly involved.  

 

TT can be a great choice, too, but sometimes if a child is already struggling it may not explain enough or review enough to really help.  Depends on the child and the underlying cause of the struggles.

 

ETA:  When I mentioned MUS I was thinking that sometimes with my kids, when we get tense about a subject they can start tuning me out.  At that point, we are all too stressed to learn.  Me continuing to rattle on does no one any good.  If I can turn over instruction to another source at least temporarily it helps us all reset.  I generally use CTC Math as a supplement and we also turn to it and to Youtube for additional video instruction if my explanations are not making sense to them.

 

 Another thing you might consider is how wordy you are and how strong her math vocabulary is.  I realized that DD was really struggling when I gave long explanations.  Turns out she has low processing speed and poor word retrieval.  I was bombarding her with all of these math terms but not giving her enough time to translate and internalize.  I think it is sort of like getting an explanation in a foreign language you are only superficially familiar with.  We now work a LOT on mastery of math vocabulary and I try not to talk too terribly much or too quickly when going over a lesson.  I also try to give her a lot of space and quiet to process things before moving on or pushing for an answer.

This is worth thinking on.  She does seem to require more processing time than I sometimes give her.  Sometimes I think she's stuck or needs help, but she says she's thinking. 

 

 

MM4 is a BEAST!!  We just finished it, and it took f.o.r.e.v.e.r.  It just covers so many computation-heavy topics.

 

What section are you on, and in what way is your daughter struggling?

 

If she is stuck on some of the more tangential Chapter 1 topics (Order of Operations, Pascal’s Triangle, Money and Discounts) then I would move on and see how she does with the place value in Chapter 2.  If she is struggling with Chapter 2, then I would be tempted to go back and revisit the place value chapter in 3b.  

 

If she is struggling with Chapter 3...well, multi-digit multiplication is a high hurdle for a lot of kids.  If that is the problem, I would probably counter-intuitively slow down and use manipulatives to really illustrate and understand each step of the process.  If she needs it, the second chapter in 3a teaches different ways to think about the concept of multiplication.

 

In the mean time, to keep things moving, you could have her simultaneously work through 4a Chapter 4 on time and measurement.  If she were to do just a front or a back from Chapter 3 and both a front and a back from Chapter 4 each day (and not even necessarily all the time and measurement problems), then she would be moving faster than the suggested pace.

 

Wendy

 

Thanks.  The above made me feel a bit better about it all!  We're almost through Chapter 3.  I was flipping through Chapter 4 today, to see if I could mix it in.  Chapter 3 is just heavy lesson after heavy lesson with no mental breather.  I think she understands multiplication/division conceptually; it's just the coordinating of steps, "silly" errors here and there (not putting a zero when multiplying by a ten, etc).  She just seems to get bogged down in it. 

 

What is the problem, specifically? Why is she whining?

I wouldn't put math in the hands of a child that doesn't want to do math, fwiw. Not until it gets much worse than you're describing, anyway.

 

She's not complaining much now (that was CLE).  It feels like every single lesson is a such a challenge; I mainly worry that she's getting discouraged and disliking math.  Good pointhowever, about not putting it in her hands. I wonder, though, if she is zoning out on me (in particular) like someone mentioned above.

 

 

Thanks for all the food for thought!  I'll look into breaking up the lessons a bit, making the topics more varied so we're not slogging away on an hours worth of multiplication and such.  Maybe the smaller chunks will be easier for her to get through.

Edited by alisoncooks
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Teaching Textbooks might be an option, but if your kid learns how to game it, you're not going to make any ground.

 

We did MUS. It was easy, quick, and got my kid's confidence back. It also gave him someone else to listen to.

Agree here about TT. It's not a bad program, but for kids who aren't good about asking for help when they get confused, it's easy for them to get buried and you will have no clue, as HomeAgain mentions when they learn to game it. I think TT would just dig her into a deeper hole at this point. We still use CLE for Algebra I and go to Khan Acadmey when she gets stuck. We started much later than your daughter age, so I can't speak to the other programs. But I did the Saxon to TT jump when Saxon caused tears and ended up having to go to CLE to fix it. CLE is easier to slow down or accelerate for us.

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Okay, I've been talked down from the Teaching Textbooks ledge... :p

 

Here's my other concern, since you've all been helpful:  If we continue at this pace, we'll be about 3/4 finished with Math Mammoth 4 at the end of the year, though we'll probably keep plugging through the summer so that she can start the next school year with MM5.  She'll be 11 in June (& a rising 6th grader).  

 

How "behind" is that?  Should we make a bigger effort at accelerating, so that she can get through MM6 before a certain grade?

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Okay, I've been talked down from the Teaching Textbooks ledge... :p

 

Here's my other concern, since you've all been helpful:  If we continue at this pace, we'll be about 3/4 finished with Math Mammoth 4 at the end of the year, though we'll probably keep plugging through the summer so that she can start the next school year with MM5.  She'll be 11 in June (& a rising 6th grader).  

 

How "behind" is that?  Should we make a bigger effort at accelerating, so that she can get through MM6 before a certain grade?

 

Having just walked this road, here are my thoughts.

 

The first ~10 pages of Chapter 4 are a bit tricky because they cover military time, adding time and elapsed time.  But, once you get through those, the next ~40 pages are on reading thermometers, rulers and scales.  I'm betting she is going to cruise through those, and I would certainly not make her do all the problems in each section once she has shown proficiency.

 

Then 4b starts hard with long division, but once again, after you get through Chapter 5 things lighten up.  Chapter 6 is geometry that is largely review (area and perimeter of rectangles, classification of shapes, symmetry).  The only real new thing is measuring angles with a protractor.  If she gets bogged down with long division, Chapter 6 is light enough that you could probably have her work through them both concurrently.

 

The rest of 4b are chapters on fractions and decimals, which sounds ominous, but really isn't too bad.  The fraction chapter focuses mainly on equivalent fractions, comparing fractions and adding and subtracting fractions WITH LIKE DENOMINATORS!!  You only dip your baby toe into adding unlike denominators and that is only a couple short sections with a lot of hand holding.  The decimal chapter is mainly an introduction and teaches the concept of decimals and how to add them mentally and in columns.

 

The great thing is, that once you get to 5a you will make up a lot of time.  Chapter 1 is all review of the four operations.  Chapter 2 touches a bit on place value up to billions, rounding and estimation and has one section gently introducing exponents.  The rest of that chapter is about calculator usage.  Right there that gets you half way through 5a.

 

If I were you, I think my goal would be to accelerate the non-arithmetic chapters (time, measuring, geometry) or do them concurrently with the denser chapters.  I would not be a slave to doing all the problems in the arithmetic chapters, but I would do as many as required to ensure mastery of the topics.

 

Since you mention that multi-step problems are difficult, I might even preview the bar model method introduced in 5a (Chapter 3) and start preteaching that now.  You could use the bar model example problems from that chapter and just work through one a week with her until she is comfortable with the method.  Then you could print out that section and have her do one or two problems a week.  By the time she got there, that Chapter would be almost done.  That type of problem solving can be hard to wrap your mind around, and I think sometimes a very gradual introduction with lots of time to let concepts percolate is easier for kids than getting to that chapter and being thrown into the deep end with pages upon pages of those types of questions.

 

Just some ideas.

Wendy

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I second the idea that MM is a beast. We were not the only people I know of who jumped ship at that point. Ds wandered around programs for a bit and finally finished out with MEP instead. Now he's in Dolciani Pre-Algebra and is doing fine.

 

That's not advice per se... just... I think upper 4th/5th grade math is just really hard. Kids are capping off all these topics that they mostly get but now they have to really master and then master with really "big" numbers and decimals and so forth.

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I'd say she's strong in both of those. She doesn't have immediate recall on all her multiplication/division facts, but she does know most. Perhaps she feels overwhelmed now that she's faced with multi-digit multiplication or balancing equations with multiple steps. (I do fact practice separately, and she's allowed to use a "cheat sheet" for part of her lessons.)

 

When she was little, she understood number bonds and addition facts quickly. She was strong with mental math problems (she still HATES having to show work) and finding missing numbers. I would say that within the last year, when problems became multi-step, she began to struggle. She also tends to mentally wander -- staring at her paper, not working, until I nudge her to get to work. Problem after problem.

Everything you said about your daughter describes what I've been going thru with my son (now 11) for the past year. I think for kids who are used to doing math in their heads, the many finicky steps of multi digit multiplication and long division are difficult. Now I did switch curriculum, to MUS, and that did help over the very short explanation in Singapore math, but I think what really made the difference to him finally getting it was 1) realizing this is not the time to be creative and solve it a different way every time. There are so many steps he needed to do them in the same order and the same way every time. Then if his mind wanders off in the middle, at least he can find his spot. I realized part way thru that he was multiplying the numbers in a different order every time in order to 'make it interesting'! Lol. This is new territory because up till now they are taught many different ways to do mental math. And that's good. But switching around mid multi step problem is not. Lol. And 2) it's just taken doing a couple every day for a long time for the steps to become automatic (MUS had been great for this because of the review pages built in to every lesson).

 

Eta: reason #2... I'd read on these forums that same advice over and over, but when I was faced with the situation, it didn't sink in. I think with your oldest you're still learning too. Having come out the other side of long division, I'm now giving the same advice I received but didn't 'get' before. Lol. Just try not to take it too hard and keep plodding along. She will get the hang of it eventually.

Edited by vaquitita
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Okay, I've been talked down from the Teaching Textbooks ledge... :p

 

Here's my other concern, since you've all been helpful:  If we continue at this pace, we'll be about 3/4 finished with Math Mammoth 4 at the end of the year, though we'll probably keep plugging through the summer so that she can start the next school year with MM5.  She'll be 11 in June (& a rising 6th grader).  

 

How "behind" is that?  Should we make a bigger effort at accelerating, so that she can get through MM6 before a certain grade?

 

Personally I would not try to accelerate anything. I would go at her pace until it's SOLID. I would try and ignore the calnder. Just do the next thing.

 

I recently went through a whole discussion on the high school board about what constitutes "solid as a rock", as there are a ton of stories about kids who did fine in math and then got to college and floundered in math and science because they didn't have a solid base. Having had the benefit (although not to her) of experimenting on the first kid when it comes to math background, I will tell you in hindsight, I wish we had been homeschooling earlier and I wish we had sat where she was until she had complete mastery of several areas. The way public school worked was we got her just "good enough" to score well on the benchmarks and state tests, but it was a tower with a shaky base. It finally started to crumble. Luckily we were homeschooling by then and I had the luxury of time to go back and fix it. She's now Algebra I as a 9th grader, and I have had numerous been there, done that parents on the high school board assure me that doing four years of math, not including calculus in high school, will leave her in a perfectly fine position. There are also a number of us there as well who aren't hesitating to repeat topics from Algebra I to make sure our kids have mastery before moving on. And that's in high school where the time table is suddenly a lot more sensitive. But I'm of the mind that it's worth it if you don't want to see the high school or early college collapse, which can, and does happen. 

 

Anyway, all of that to tell you, if I were you, I would forget about schedules and grades and I would concentrate on mastery, whenever that comes. If you have to go through some summers to get where you want to be, then so be it. Don't rush the schedule though. She's young. Really young. I would just take a deep breath, and take your time. If you're as worried about her enjoyment and mastery, taking it at a calm pace will help with that too- trying to rush her to catch up (which don't get me wrong, I understand is tempting) won't. Again, and gently, I repeat. You have plenty of time! :) There is no point whatsoever to accelerating if she is shaky. It will let you check a box, but it's going to come back to bite you both in the ass sooner or later. 

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My oldest is very much the same. We took a "gap" year in third grade so she could gain confidence. We used TT a year ahead and she was able to solidify some concepts. From there we moved to Saxon. The 30 problems is a lot for her so I assign ten with concepts I know she's weak on or what I know what they're scaffolding for. She takes a test every five lessons and she consistently scores above 90%. The lessons are so incremental that she's feeling a lot more confident about it all.

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Teaching Textbooks works great for some students.  My oldest ds did CLE 5 a few years ago, and then we switched to Teaching Textbooks.  He always hated the long lessons in CLE, but he loved and did really well with Teaching Textbooks.  Last year he did TT Pre-Algebra and had a A in the course.  This year he is taking Algebra 1 at the local high school and doing great, so I think TT did a fine job preparing him.

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Having just walked this road, here are my thoughts.

 

The first ~10 pages of Chapter 4 are a bit tricky because they cover military time, adding time and elapsed time. But, once you get through those, the next ~40 pages are on reading thermometers, rulers and scales. I'm betting she is going to cruise through those, and I would certainly not make her do all the problems in each section once she has shown proficiency.

 

Then 4b starts hard with long division, but once again, after you get through Chapter 5 things lighten up. Chapter 6 is geometry that is largely review (area and perimeter of rectangles, classification of shapes, symmetry). The only real new thing is measuring angles with a protractor. If she gets bogged down with long division, Chapter 6 is light enough that you could probably have her work through them both concurrently.

 

The rest of 4b are chapters on fractions and decimals, which sounds ominous, but really isn't too bad. The fraction chapter focuses mainly on equivalent fractions, comparing fractions and adding and subtracting fractions WITH LIKE DENOMINATORS!! You only dip your baby toe into adding unlike denominators and that is only a couple short sections with a lot of hand holding. The decimal chapter is mainly an introduction and teaches the concept of decimals and how to add them mentally and in columns.

 

The great thing is, that once you get to 5a you will make up a lot of time. Chapter 1 is all review of the four operations. Chapter 2 touches a bit on place value up to billions, rounding and estimation and has one section gently introducing exponents. The rest of that chapter is about calculator usage. Right there that gets you half way through 5a.

 

If I were you, I think my goal would be to accelerate the non-arithmetic chapters (time, measuring, geometry) or do them concurrently with the denser chapters. I would not be a slave to doing all the problems in the arithmetic chapters, but I would do as many as required to ensure mastery of the topics.

 

Since you mention that multi-step problems are difficult, I might even preview the bar model method introduced in 5a (Chapter 3) and start preteaching that now. You could use the bar model example problems from that chapter and just work through one a week with her until she is comfortable with the method. Then you could print out that section and have her do one or two problems a week. By the time she got there, that Chapter would be almost done. That type of problem solving can be hard to wrap your mind around, and I think sometimes a very gradual introduction with lots of time to let concepts percolate is easier for kids than getting to that chapter and being thrown into the deep end with pages upon pages of those types of questions.

 

Just some ideas.

Wendy

Thank you so much for this! DS7 is doing 3B right now, so your heads-up on 4 and 5 is very helpful!

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Personally I would not try to accelerate anything. I would go at her pace until it's SOLID. I would try and ignore the calender. Just do the next thing.

 

... concentrate on mastery, whenever that comes. If you have to go through some summers to get where you want to be, then so be it. Don't rush the schedule though. She's young. Really young. I would just take a deep breath, and take your time. If you're as worried about her enjoyment and mastery, taking it at a calm pace will help with that too- trying to rush her to catch up (which don't get me wrong, I understand is tempting) won't. Again, and gently, I repeat. You have plenty of time! :) There is no point whatsoever to accelerating if she is shaky. It will let you check a box, but it's going to come back to bite you both in the ass sooner or later. 

 

You've gotten a lot of good advice, but I want to reinforce what Texasmom said. Your daughter is still young, and there's PLENTY of time ahead. Please don't worry about grade level. Focus on building the concepts down deep in understanding, and everything later will go smoothly. But if you rush, you almost guarantee that your daughter will struggle in high school.

 

Here are some tips that may make your lessons easier:

  • Do the pages buddy-style, so you work just as many problems as she does. This limits the long introductory explanations that tend to go over her head, gives her time to watch your work and catch on, and it makes the whole math session feel more like friendly conversation than task-mastery.

     

  • Limit the amount of time spent on math to about half an hour at a time. Don't try to finish the page if it's going slowly. Thinking hard is tiring, so don't let it go to the point of frustration.

     

  • Skip around in the book. Find a topic your daughter enjoys and put a bookmark there. Do just a few of the tough arithmetic problems (long multiplication or division) and then skip to the lighter topic.

     

  • Don't feel like you have to do all the problems on the hard pages. A few problems worked carefully with discussion are usually better than slogging through a bunch and getting discouraged.

     

  • If you want to spend more than half an hour on daily math, do something besides the workbook. I recommend playing card games that build mental math skill, like these on my blog. Or exploring non-textbooky topics of interest like these or here.

Upper elementary math is hard. And doing math with a preteen approaching puberty is hard. There will be bad days and emotional meltdowns no matter what math program you use. But by keeping the stress level as low as possible, and by focusing on making sense rather than making progress, you will give your daughter a good foundation for the future.

 

One more point: The long multiplication and long division problems are not really that important. If they cause tears, consider skipping them or doing no more than one per day (or one each, buddy-style). Honestly, all those problems are is an exercise in following the steps of a recipe -- they do not build understanding. What is important is number sense, being able to reason flexibly with numbers. 

 

 

 

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FWIW, DD did not "get" multi-digit multiplication and got confused frequently...until a teacher showed her lattice method.  It was gobbledygook to me but it made perfect sense to DD.  She understood place value better, she never missed steps anymore, and rarely EVER got a wrong answer once she switched to that method.  You might try looking at you tube videos and learning the method yourself (it will probably seem horribly confusing and frustrating at first if you have never seen it before) but now that I understand it and can do it, I see the appeal.  For one thing, you only do one type of operation at a time, there are built in lines to guide the process of which numbers go where, and it helps to break it all down into smaller pieces.

 

Same with partial quotient division or "hangman's division"...opened things up in a way that just constantly reviewing the standard method did not.

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*sigh*

 

Oldest DD used CLE Math for 2-4th grade, and we liked it.  However, she did poorly on her end-of-year test (required by the state), and the lessons were getting looooong --resulting in whining and groaning-- so I decided to switch to Something Different this year.

 

Since I already owned Math Mammoth (and never used it) we we went that.

 

For the most part, I really like MM, but I feel like every lesson is a struggle for DD.  She claims she doesn't understand, no matter how I demonstrate or explain (we do every lesson together).  We barely squeak through 1-page (front and back) a day.  I feel like we are falling farther and farther behind (she's technically 5th grade, but we're doing MM4 because it felt more advanced than where we left off in CLE4).  At the rate we're going, she will not finish MM4 this year (I had hoped to get through all of 4A-B and part of 5A, but nope).

 

Anyway, I'm just torn.  I've found myself looking at the sample lessons on the Teaching Textbooks website, toying with the thought of removing myself from the equation.  This DD used to do well in math, and I'm at a loss what to do for this "I don't get it" rut we're in....

 

Could MM just not be a good fit? Will the world implode, and my child never get into college, if I switch to TT? ;)

Is this a preteen thing, the working so slowly and brain fog?

 

Don't blame it on "preteen." :-)

 

Maybe MM is not a good fit for her. I confess that the samples on the Web site do not excite me, either.

 

Maybe she needs a more traditional math, like Rod and Staff, or Saxon.

 

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Here are some tips that may make your lessons easier:

  • Do the pages buddy-style, so you work just as many problems as she does. This limits the long introductory explanations that tend to go over her head, gives her time to watch your work and catch on, and it makes the whole math session feel more like friendly conversation than task-mastery.

     

  • Limit the amount of time spent on math to about half an hour at a time. Don't try to finish the page if it's going slowly. Thinking hard is tiring, so don't let it go to the point of frustration.

     

  • Skip around in the book. Find a topic your daughter enjoys and put a bookmark there. Do just a few of the tough arithmetic problems (long multiplication or division) and then skip to the lighter topic.

     

  • Don't feel like you have to do all the problems on the hard pages. A few problems worked carefully with discussion are usually better than slogging through a bunch and getting discouraged.

     

  • If you want to spend more than half an hour on daily math, do something besides the workbook. I recommend playing card games that build mental math skill, like these on my blog. Or exploring non-textbooky topics of interest like these or here.

 

This was very helpful. Thank you.

 

We do a little work buddy-style and she really likes it.  I admit that I was trying to limit it because I was afraid she'd be too dependent on me, but maybe I just need to do a better job at slowing down and verbalizing every little bit, drawing responses from her as well. I think now I'm too much like: look, here, see, this, do, now. :p   I think she needs more processing time.  (This is also my child who didn't read until halfway through 3rd grade and fought me mightily; then, one day she "decided" she wanted to read and she did.)

Edited by alisoncooks
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Perhaps it has nothing to do with math? She will soon be 11. Could this be puberty, brain fog, hormonal? When Ds started to shift, it was definitely frustrating to be continuously told "I don't get it" over and over and over. It was perhaps the most frustrating because he was previously so willing to learn and work with me to learn. Not during brain fog.

 

We switched to Khan Academy, beginning at the total beginning and then just letting him go up until he needed the videos. If he was stuck, he could ask me. Usually, I was only involved when multiple self tries fell flat. In about 3-4 monthshe had some confidence back and we were able to actually move forward.

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Perhaps it has nothing to do with math? She will soon be 11. Could this be puberty, brain fog, hormonal? When Ds started to shift, it was definitely frustrating to be continuously told "I don't get it" over and over and over. It was perhaps the most frustrating because he was previously so willing to learn and work with me to learn. Not during brain fog.

 

It's certainly a possibility.

And I can say, I realize now that both DD and I were PMSing when I wrote the OP.

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Teaching Textbooks might be an option, but if your kid learns how to game it, you're not going to make any ground.

 

We did MUS. It was easy, quick, and got my kid's confidence back. It also gave him someone else to listen to.

My kid learned to game TT. We switched from TT to CLE mid-year this year. I like the idea of it, but for my kids... and one who really really struggles with fractions, it wasn't getting the job done.
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  • 4 months later...

My kid learned to game TT. We switched from TT to CLE mid-year this year. I like the idea of it, but for my kids... and one who really really struggles with fractions, it wasn't getting the job done.

 

 

How does a kid game TT?  I was thinking about it for my 12yo ds, but he would figure that out, if possible.  I did notice in the samples online that if you get a problem wrong you can try again or just skip it.  He would not try it again!  I don't like that and I can't stand there watching him.  

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How does a kid game TT? I was thinking about it for my 12yo ds, but he would figure that out, if possible. I did notice in the samples online that if you get a problem wrong you can try again or just skip it. He would not try it again! I don't like that and I can't stand there watching him.

They get two tries on every problem plus hints. If you simply glance at grades, it will look like they (possibly) made a 100, even though they technically got every problem wrong on the first attempt. So you must go into the gradebook for each lesson and check. Otherwise you risk them moving onto the next thing really not having any grasp of the first.

 

I think TT is fine for some kids. But for lazy kids, or kids looking for the path of least resistance, it can backfire. I think parents often buy it thinking it's hands off, and it is in that it's self grading, but parents still need to be more involved than many bargain for. Check that grade book every single day. If you don't have time to do that, thats when you risk a kid being able to take advantage of it. At least that's my two cents based on personal experience.

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