I have lost touch with reality

[shadah]

I signed up to teach a co-op class this semester. I targeted the material at my 5yo. Prereqs for this class were 7yo, reading and writing on grade level. Apparently, I have no idea what a 7-10yos should be capable of. I had five units planned over fifteen weeks. That's one teaching week and two review weeks using games, books, active play, etc.

Only one student can read at all. But, the problem is not just reading. My kids retain and use information. I don't see that happening with this class. We might be able to get through the first unit this semster if I break things down more and drill it to death.

Sorry, I'm just venting. I'm stuck for this semester teaching. But, if I slow down and teach the class, my kids will be bored. If I teach at the level and pace I had planned, my kids will get it and the others will only have exposure?

I thought my kids were ahead. I knew they think a little differently. I had no idea how differently. I feel like we are aliens and have landed on the wrong planet.

[Tanaqui]

Your expectations of 7 - 10 year olds being able to read were not wrong. Unless you're exaggerating the situation?

[kiwik]

I assume they are not at the read to learn stage. I wouldn't expect all 7 year olds to be but 9/10 year olds with no issues should be.

[RootAnn]

Are the kids actually the minimum age? Did you end up with a bunch of no-schoolers? Perhaps people weren't used to requirements being serious. (I've run into thus before.)

 

Likey, though, you are aliens on a strange planet. I would move forward with your plans and let the class be exposure for the others. I doubt the parents have any other expectation or intend to put in extra time with the kids at home. I would not slow down or drill the material.

[Arcadia]

What is the aim of this class? My kids have attended outreach classes at state parks and they break the kids down by grade levels so usually k-2, 3-5, 6-8. Most kids attend to survey the class and see if they are interested to go deeper after that. I do know parents who delay formal reading instructions until 8. They read to their child.

[luuknam]

I assume they are not at the read to learn stage. I wouldn't expect all 7 year olds to be but 9/10 year olds with no issues should be.

 

Then and again, if the prereqs were at least 7yo, reading and writing at grade level, I'd think it might be fine to put in a 9/10yo who's got some reading issues and is only at 2nd grade reading level.

 

I like Fountas & Pinnell to look at reading levels (well, past level D or so - I don't like F&P's treatment of levels A-D). So, 2nd grade would be levels J through M, so, in January, I wouldn't expect more than K to be "at grade level". Here's a list of books by F&P level:

 

http://www.kidsbookseries.com/list/sorted-by-fountas-pinnell-guided-reading-level#K

 

Of course, the other thing is that while *I* tend to think of 7yo = 2nd grade (too used to summer birthdays), by January, there will be a number of kids who are 7 in 1st grade, so you'd be asking for a January 1st grade reading level. Which, is pretty close to not reading at all, for the purposes of anything other than actual reading instruction. 1st grade is supposed to be levels D-J, so for January I'd expect maybe level F to be "on grade level":

 

http://www.kidsbookseries.com/list/sorted-by-fountas-pinnell-guided-reading-level#F

 

Which is stuff like the easier of the Biscuit books.

 

So, yeah... if you aimed too high, you should change your plan and cover less material. Your kids will live - you can always teach them the other stuff at home.

 

ETA: here's a chart - for a Jan class, I'd look at the first interval - Nov/Dec expectations (and expect parents to believe that their kid in the "approaches expectations" section to believe their kids are at grade level). If you have a book you think exemplifies the reading level you want, you can use google to search for the book's title and "fountas and pinnell" and probably find the f&p level (and therefor the grade level) for it.

 

http://www.heinemann.com/fountasandpinnell/handouts/InstructionalLevelExpectationsForReading.pdf

Edited January 11, 2017 by luuknam

[8filltheheart]

7 yr olds are often 1st graders. Many 1st graders are still beginning readers focused on decoding. Even 2nd graders often read to read, not to learn. 3rd grade is the typical transition toward learning to read to learn.

 

Of course, it also depends on the reading level of the material you have chosen.

 

Fwiw, many kids who aren't reading at a high level in 1st grade still end up as advanced students, so I am not sure you are on another planet so much as on a different path.

[8filltheheart]

Of course, the other thing is that while *I* tend to think of 7yo = 2nd grade (too used to summer birthdays), by January, there will be a number of kids who are 7 in 1st grade, so you'd be asking for a January 1st grade reading level. Which, is pretty close to not reading at all, for the purposes of anything other than actual reading instruction.

Exactly what I was thinking. My Christmas baby 1st grader just turned 7. She can read quite well (Thornton Burgess type books). But her siblings were all over the place at this point in first grade. It certainly was not indicative of anything other than their reading level at that point in first grade.

Edited January 11, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[Pawz4me]

When we were homeschooling I never could find suitable co-op classes. I think to have taken anything reasonably challenging I would've had to have signed my boys up for (supposedly) high school classes while they were in elementary school. And that's not because they were so gifted, it's because the homeschoolers in the classes were all so very far behind. I think people on TWTM in general are exceptional in regard to what we expect of our homeschooled kids. Or at least in my area I've found that to be true.

[8filltheheart]

When we were homeschooling I never could find suitable co-op classes. I think to have taken anything reasonably challenging I would've had to have signed my boys up for (supposedly) high school classes while they were in elementary school. And that's not because they were so gifted, it's because the homeschoolers in the classes were all so very far behind. I think people on TWTM in general are exceptional in regard to what we expect of our homeschooled kids. Or at least in my area I've found that to be true.

That too. Coops drive me crazy.

[shadah]

I asked for 3-5th grades. I ended up having to accept 2nd and up. I thought it would be fine. Homework is copywork and memory work with some reading but not alot. I showed up the first day with a class of 5-6yos plus a few older ones who are unschoolers (noschoolers? Or at least very nontraditional).

So, I am sitting here writing plans for what my kids could do at 5yo and that's not going to work either. I will figure the class out, but I think what really bothered me the most was the alien feeling. I have never dealt with this level of learning. I'm pulling notes of things I strewed when my oldest was two. I was on the phone this morning with a friend who has preschoolers trying to get a feel for how these ages and stages learn.

I'm not expressing this well, I know. I'm not trying to be critical. I'm just baffled how to teach things it seems my kids were born with or learned while I wasn't looking.

The upside of this is that my other class (planned for 3-5th grade as well) has 6-8th graders several of whom are likely smarter than I am. They are a wonderul challenge. I look forward to a rewarding semester and a good challenge for my kids.

[Tess in the Burbs]

co-ops didn't work for us either.  

If I had put in the time to prep a class and gave clear expectations of the level needed to enjoy the class, I would proceed as planned.  You can certainly tell a parent their child is not at reading level and make suggestions for how to get help/better/etc.  But if no one is complaining, carry on!

[shadah]

 

Fwiw, many kids who aren't reading at a high level in 1st grade still end up as advanced students, so I am not sure you are on another planet so much as on a different path.

Thank you. This helped me. I'm being too rigid in my thinking. I felt guilty for feeling frustrated. I can always stash my kids in other classes and work with what I ended up with in this class. It's just a different path.

[luuknam]

I asked for 3-5th grades. I ended up having to accept 2nd and up. I thought it would be fine. Homework is copywork and memory work with some reading but not alot. I showed up the first day with a class of 5-6yos plus a few older ones who are unschoolers (noschoolers? Or at least very nontraditional).

So, I am sitting here writing plans for what my kids could do at 5yo and that's not going to work either. I will figure the class out, but I think what really bothered me the most was the alien feeling. I have never dealt with this level of learning. I'm pulling notes of things I strewed when my oldest was two. I was on the phone this morning with a friend who has preschoolers trying to get a feel for how these ages and stages learn.

I'm not expressing this well, I know. I'm not trying to be critical. I'm just baffled how to teach things it seems my kids were born with or learned while I wasn't looking.

The upside of this is that my other class (planned for 3-5th grade as well) has 6-8th graders several of whom are likely smarter than I am. They are a wonderul challenge. I look forward to a rewarding semester and a good challenge for my kids.

 

That'd be frustrating, and if the rules said 2-5th grades, I'd be inclined to kick out all kids under 7 who were not solidly on a 2nd grade level. Of course, I don't know the dynamics of the co-op, and since your other class is good, you may want to think before deciding what to do. But yeah, super frustrating.

 

ETA: if you're thinking you might teach at this co-op again, I would not dumb things down below 2nd grade level - I'd want to get a reputation for meaning it when I give certain prereqs.

Edited January 11, 2017 by luuknam

[katilac]

It's likely that part of it is also an adjustment period, on both the teacher and student sides. You don't have any experience in teaching other kids, and many of the kids in the class may have little to no experience being in a 'class.' Having a wide range of ages adds to it (7 through 10 is a much tougher range than, say, 14 to 17). 

 

If you actually have that range, and not all 7-yr-olds, I'd be very surprised if only one of them can read at all. I'd think it more likely that some of them were nervous or intimidated and didn't show you that they could read. Even lots of 'schooled' kids dislike reading in front of others. 

[Guest]

Makes me remember this video: 

 

 

[HomeAgain]

We like co-ops for middle/high, when the kids can collaborate, have good study skills, etc.  They can be fun for elementary, but only if it's non-academic mostly (or an extension of home, like doing all the messy projects for history/labs for science).  I don't like them for elementary for the most part.  There's too wide a range of skills, and really, the kids just need play at that age if they're in a social group.

 

The one class I had non-readers in I scrapped and rewrote everything.  Non-readers= a lot more socratic discussion, movement, acting out.  We had a lack of fine motor skills in the class, too, so I cut everything out ahead of time.  It turned out to be a great class, but it did require me to change things.  I ended up having the same kids 3 years running and expanding to other skills.

[MotherOfBoys]

I could have written your post! I had exactly the same problem with coop this year but with the middle age bracket. We dropped after the first semester. In my case the parent was required to buy the Tiner Physics book for their student. You would think when buying the book you would notice the reading level and content and say "hey my child can't handle this." I had 9 yr olds that were reading Dick and Jane. The three brothers and sister said mom was sending them to bed and then doing their homework herself three times. It was obviously her handwriting. RRRRRR!!! Then the board told me I should help them get caught up by coming in early to coop every friday and work with them. Coop starts at 8:45am! Half the class couldn't handle the material and the other half was gifted students. Big gap for a parent to teach.

[shadah]

I taught this class yesterday. It seems I was wrong again. The children I thought were five are seven. I just misjudged what a 7yo could be expected to do. If I teach again it will have to be middle schoolers.

I have drastically cut down on content. I am working on skills as they come up. We spent class time yesterday on short vowels. It came up so I went with it. My children are no longer attending though.

Next week we will be covering scissor skills so I can include cut and paste activities in place of much of the reading and writing. Neither of my kids is an auditory learner, so many of the ways to compensate are not things I am used to: more discussion, comparisons, activities, call and repeat, simon says, etc. To be honest, I feel silly but I am determined to make this work and teach to the best of my ability.

By the way, MotherOf Boys, I like your siggy. I am also a planner who has learned to teach my children as they are. I am still too rigid in my planning for classes. I would have been better off seeing what I had first and then planning my semester. Lesson learned.

[maize]

As others have said, children are all over the place developmentally at this age. When I was 7 I could neither read not write; when I was 9 I was reading Dickens for pleasure.

 

Just among my own kids I have a very bright dyslexic 9 year old struggling at a 1st grade reading level, another child who was reading at a similar level at age 4, and a 2 year old whose verbal skills are better than those of her 4 year old brother.

Edited January 24, 2017 by maize

[SparklyUnicorn]

This is my fear with signing up for co-op type classes.  That ultimately stuff heads to a level that is aimed fairly low.  Otherwise what kind of class will it be if many of the kids just aren't getting it? 

I think it is hard to make a class that accommodates what is potentially a huge range.  7-10 is actually a pretty huge range.

 

I'm probably just repeating what has been said here.  Just doesn't surprise me really.

 

 

[katilac]

   7-10 is actually a pretty huge range.

 

 

Definitely. And it straddles two developmental/educational stages, so all the more so.