HELP! Beast Academy is HARD!

[mrsduenes06]

A little background: my 9 y.o. son just finished his 5th grade math curriculum which was a traditional-style workbook (CLE) that emphasized solid knowledge of facts and drilling on things like long division, etc. But I noticed that he had a hard time with difficult word problems, particularly in seeing the problem for what it was and what he needed to do. After we finished 5th grade, I started him on Beast Academy 4D, which is a unit on fractions on decimals. But now I am realizing that it is so much more - and he's struggling with the word problems. I have many questions as a result:

 

1. I don't know how to help him see the problem. I feel like I am doing half of each problem for him, or he wouldn't even know how to solve it. I am sure I am enabling him, but if I say that he just needs to figure it out I don't think he would know what to do.

 

2. I am wondering if starting on 4D was too advanced. Even though he has a grasp of fractions and decimals, I feel like a lot of Beast Academy is more about problem solving strategies, and maybe this style of problem solving is something they had taught in earlier books. So should I have started him in 3A?

 

3. I really like the way the problems challenge a child to think, but I also like the traditional and gentle approach and training in facts of CLE (as well as its lessons that have a clear beginning and end, unlike BA). Has anyone ever done both together, and if so, how?

 

My son would like to continue on in CLE's 6th grade, which was what I was planning on doing after a few months of Beast Academy, but I truly feel at a loss as to which curriculum to go with. I feel like he will get a lot of problem solving strategies from Beast Academy, but I'm worried that he will forget a lot of what he's learned of "regular math" in CLE if we take too long of a break.

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[maize]

I always work with my kids to team-solve when they get stuck in beast academy. Even the beasts in the guide books model team solving.

[mrsduenes06]

That is good to hear. My hope is that he will eventually get a feel for what they are doing in some of these problems. I've been grateful though for the struggles, as they show me what he doesn't understand conceptually about some topics that he seemed to do well on in other curriculums.

 

[Jackie]

But now I am realizing that it is so much more

 

So, I recently had a fit of curiosity and had my daughter take a placement test for Saxon, just wondering what it would come out to. She's finishing BA 3B and tested into Saxon 7/6 (6th grade). Now, we're a mathy family, so the curric isn't at all the only math she gets, but still...

 

Is he reading the guides on his own or with you? My daughter reads them independently, but if we hit a topic she is struggling with, we carefully go through the guide together.

 

I've sometimes skipped to the end of a problem type, where the especially tricky ones are, and worked through those with her *first*, modeling the problem solving approach. Then I send her back to try the easier ones on her own, better equipped with strategies.

 

I love math and used to do some contest math, and still learned a few tricks from level 3. If you can afford the money and time, get all the books you can. The easier arithmetic may make the problem solving itself more approachable.

 

I piece together lots of math. BA is what I consider our core curriculum. I use Kumon math workbooks as a "warm up" a couple mornings a week. Those workbooks are pure review of traditional math. BA teaches her how to multiply, and then Kumon forces her to perform the operations until she has them down. For her, the need for that is less than average, so she does 1/4 or 1/2 of the workbooks, skipping through as appropriate.

[Pegs]

Like Maize, we do a lot of team solving too. Perseverance through hard problems won't come overnight, so I keep modelling it. Sometimes we put very hard questions on the whiteboard and revisit over the next few days. The team solving modelled in the guide books really lends itself to hints-which-are-not-really-hints. "Oh I bet I know what Winnie would suggest!", or "Lizzie made an interesting suggestion about a similar problem - let's have another look at that."

 

I've also saved some too-hard problems for review/refreshers later; kind of like a DIY spiral. :)

[Pegs]

I've sometimes skipped to the end of a problem type, where the especially tricky ones are, and worked through those with her *first*, modeling the problem solving approach. Then I send her back to try the easier ones on her own, better equipped with strategies.

Ooh I like this idea! Thanks for sharing.

[zaichiki]

My younger ds has always enjoyed math and it comes easily to him. He is just skipping through Singapore Primary Math 5B and everything we get to seems easy for him, like he already knows it. (I admit that I should probably be using something more challenging with him...) He is also doing Beast 4C/4D -- mostly on his own, with little help. We started Beast two years ago in 3A as a supplement to Singapore. Ds also likes to peek over his sister's shoulder and grasps her Alg and Geometry concepts with ease.

 

I think perhaps starting Beast Academy at a level that is low enough for your ds to be able to take the reigns will reinforce that it is fun. Try starting at 4A or even 3A (no judgment or expectations -- just fun). My ds LOVES Beast Academy and considers it his "fun school" even when things get challenging. Keeping that joy and willingness to tackle any challenge is my main priority.

[Jackie]

For the record, the shapes chapter in 3A had several problems that I could not solve. I consider myself generally mathy. And the section still kicked my butt. Just sayin'. Not easy.

[LEK]

I would personally start right back at 3A and let him progress at his own speed. By beginning in the "easier" books he will have a chance to develop his problem solving skills a little more while the math is not as complex. Also, each book covers very different topics, by jumping in at the end you are missing a lot of really helpful strategies only taught in the earlier books. And beast is designed to be quite challenging anyway, just saying :)

 

I have been using beast as a supplement 1 grade level behind their main curriculum (starting with 3A), I have found by doing it this way beast is not too difficult and my kids have been working completely independently through the program.

[HomeAgain]

I would start him in the earlier books, too.  Math should be about yes, logic, but using those skills in earlier material helps build confidence to tackle the harder ones.  And sometimes they just need time.  This week I saw a problem in my son's math book (MEP) that would have given him the willies before: 3 shapes acting as variables, 4 problems using those variables, and needing to figure out what each shape stood for.  I purposefully had him take a break before looking at that problem. I shouldn't have worried.  Between the practice he had before and the Christmas break where he did no math at all, he was relaxed enough to face it head on and solve it pretty quickly.  He just needed the growing time. 

 

If Beast is causing headaches right now, put it away.  I might suggest MEP as a supplement to CLE in the meantime.  Lots of problem solving strategies, not as taxing as the Beast way.  It's one of the two programs that AoPS recommends before starting Beast - the other is Singapore.

[mrsduenes06]

These are all so helpful - we did a few more problems today together where I helped him to think about the problems, and he seemed to see a little more than he did a couple of days ago, but I do feel like I need to go back to 3A (and I have three kids younger than him coming down the pipeline, so I'm sure I'll get plenty of use out of it). I'm viewing it more as "problem-solving and logic training" for now, and I agree that lowering the level might help him feel more confident and independent in tackling some of these problems. 

 

We've been grateful for the solid grasp of math facts that he's gotten from the traditional curriculum, but I'm trying to be comfortable too with a different way of doing math, where we approach it as an interesting puzzle to solve, even if it is challenging, and counting time that we work on it instead of "finishing a lesson".

[wintermom]

 

3. I really like the way the problems challenge a child to think, but I also like the traditional and gentle approach and training in facts of CLE (as well as its lessons that have a clear beginning and end, unlike BA). Has anyone ever done both together, and if so, how?

 

My son would like to continue on in CLE's 6th grade, which was what I was planning on doing after a few months of Beast Academy, but I truly feel at a loss as to which curriculum to go with. I feel like he will get a lot of problem solving strategies from Beast Academy, but I'm worried that he will forget a lot of what he's learned of "regular math" in CLE if we take too long of a break.

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

We do a combination of Beast along with our regular math curriculum (Saxon). It works out pretty well. The BA adds in a lot more depth and opportunities to "play around" with concepts a lot more than the regular curriculum.

 

Other supplemental problem solving activities are math contests (Math Olympics, Kangaroo Math, University of Waterloo Math Contests). Beast Academy books are great for building up a repertoire of problem-solving strategies for these types of contests. You can find a lot of free stuff on-line.

[daijobu]

I wouldn't worry about "enabling" your ds.  Sometimes solving difficult math problems requires a leap of faith: just try something and it might deliver the solution or it might not.  But you'll never find out unless you try.  And some students won't try unless they know it will deliver the solution.  

 

If you keep modeling problem solving strategies for him, eventually he may have the epiphany that I did in high school.  I watched as my teacher wrote out a solution and I was mad at myself because I had thought of that approach but was too afraid to try it.  I resolved to never fear again.  

 

Model problem solving for him and I bet he will eventually pick them up himself.  Also, try to teach Socratically.  Point out a method that was described in the text and ask whether he thinks he could use it for a particular problem.  Even better is to demonstrate an attempt at a solution that fails, then regroup and try another solution.  I say stick with BA!  

[wintermom]

For the record, the shapes chapter in 3A had several problems that I could not solve. I consider myself generally mathy. And the section still kicked my butt. Just sayin'. Not easy.

 

Yes, there are a lot of challenging problems in 3A. We divided them up as a family and shared our answers and strategies with each other. It was really neat to see how each child came up with their answers. 

[seaben]

Another thing to consider is trying to use questions rather than just hints when someone gets stuck. I always like asking what have you thought of so far, where are you stuck? What does this problem remind you of etc.  What would make this easier? The process is very tactical and you kind of adjust as you go along.

 

[zaichiki]

Ds was working on a problem in Beast 4C today that *I* couldn't solve... and I don't think I would have imagined the solution if I hadn't looked it up in the answer key in the back of the book.

Now that we both know how to do it, though, we may try to create another similar problem and see if we can stump his dad!  ;)

 

[Cake and Pi]

My DS#1 started in Beast 3C after finishing Right Start 1st edition E (= 4th grade +1/3ish of 5th grade math), and he spent his first few weeks oscillating between crying from frustration and giggling in absolute glee over the engaging, difficult problems.  

 

I agree with back tracking a bit so that your DS can focus on problem solving without mixing in lots of new math.  He will probably fly though the 3rd grade books.  BA 4 is a step up from BA 3, and BA 5 has felt like another step (or two!) up form BA 4.  Don't be alarmed if he slows down a lot in BA 4 or BA 5.

 

My DS#1 did 3C through about 4B independently, but has needed guidance since then.  He's an auditory learner, so I read the guide aloud to him.  I sit at the table near him while he works the problems so he can ask for hints if he gets really stuck and/or I can tell him to take a break if he's getting too frustrated.  *I* hold the workbook so that I can meter out the pages (read: so that he has to correct any mistakes before moving to the next page!).  I also work all the example problems on the board and out loud, modeling my thought process for solving them and how I document that through written work.  This has reduced his need for hints, but we often end up working the double star problems as a team.  We stole RS's mantra of "Who makes mistakes?  Everyone!" and use it every day.

 

And BTW, I had a similar experience to Jackie regarding math placement testing while working in BA.  When my DS#1 was in 4A or 4B he had a battery of tests for 2e concerns and scored at middle of 8th grade for mathematical problem solving and end of 6th grade for computation on the Woodcock-Johnson achievement test.  BA may be "loosely aligned" with CCSS, but it teaches much higher level problem solving.

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree with the others, Beast has so much meat to it that I would start with 3A, let him do the books for a meaty math but for fun, work some problems together, expect that some are going to be hard to solve even for mathy adults and help him embrace that concept.  Beast is more about thinking about math then about getting a correct answer.  

 

Let him do CLE for his other math and Beast as a supplement or vice a versa since he likes CLE and has asked for it.  You can cut out some of the review in CLE if it gets to be too much.  You can also combine the lessons so he does new CLE material from two lessons and select review from one lesson on Monday, do Beast on Tuesday, new material from 2 lessons/review one lesson Wednesday from CLE, Beast on Thursday, etc.  Just skip the CLE quizzes so you can get in another Beast lesson on Fridays or make Fridays more fun math game day or something.  Or do Beast in the morning and a shortened CLE lesson in the afternoon to solidify basic processes.

 

FWIW, I found my kids did better combining both systems, for different reasons.  They are vastly different programs so fill in different threads in the math tapestry.  

[Mhorai]

I just got BA for my 9 year old 4th grader who is finishing 5th grade math at a public charter school.  Based on this thread, I started back in 3A.  In the last week and 1/2 he has gone through all of 3A and is well through 3B.  Yes, a lot of the math content is a review of concepts, but BA takes it in such a deeper direction that my son is challenged to think, not just calculate.  And he is begging to do math every night!  I imagine the pace will slow down drastically if and when the concepts become new- but even then I imagine the challenge of the problems themselves will keep him coming back for more- I hope!  

[Mike in SA]

I just got BA for my 9 year old 4th grader who is finishing 5th grade math at a public charter school.  Based on this thread, I started back in 3A.  In the last week and 1/2 he has gone through all of 3A and is well through 3B.  Yes, a lot of the math content is a review of concepts, but BA takes it in such a deeper direction that my son is challenged to think, not just calculate.  And he is begging to do math every night!  I imagine the pace will slow down drastically if and when the concepts become new- but even then I imagine the challenge of the problems themselves will keep him coming back for more- I hope!  

 

 

Great to hear!

One cautionary note: make sure he is aware that the pace will slow when the challenge increases.  The point of BA / AoPS is to push through difficult challenges.  By starting at a review level (not a bad thing), he may get a sense of overconfidence, and when he hits "the wall," may not be prepared to push himself as much as he will need to.  As he progresses, he will have to stretch himself beyond the current level of effort.

[strawberryjam]

We do CLE math at the same time as RedBird Math online from Stanford (program for Gifted youth). I don't do any of the word problems in CLE, we just use RedBird for that (it's mostly all word problems anyways).

 

RedBird Math leans towards the same approach as the conceptual math curricula, but it's not nearly as frustrating for my kid (who much prefers CLE). He still finds RedBird hard, but not frustrating. There are also lots of fun games and projects involved that are STEM related, and since science is his first love - that makes it a bit more appealing.

 

We had tried Singapore Math in the past but it wasn't a good fit. He wasn't retaining anything with Singapore even though he found it pretty easy. I haven't tried Beast Academy but I've looked at samples and it would drive my son crazy. He likes the straightforward style of CLE much better. Maybe look into RedBird if you want some of the benefits of conceptual style math without the frustration.