Barton & fluency drills

[caedmyn]

Frustrated again...DS 8 needs to do the fluency drills.  We're doing 25-30 mins of Barton 4x/week.  It took him 9 minutes today to read 1 page of fluency drills 2x (level 3, lesson 1).  (And where the heck do the instructions for this come from?  It says they should only be used for 5 minutes at the beginning and end of a session...and then it says that ideally they should read each of the 4 fluency pages for a lesson 2x at the beginning and end of a session.  Sorry, but no kid having fluency issues is going to get through 8 pages of words/phrases in 5, or even 10 minutes!)  

 

By the time we get through the sight word cards, the sight word spelling cards, and the fluency drills, we'll only end up doing 10-15 minutes of actual lesson, which means it's going to take him 2-3 weeks to get through a single lesson, assuming he has no problems whatsoever with it and doesn't have to repeat anything, which is highly unlikely as things get more complicated.  I do not want to be doing Barton with him for the next 10 years!  Please help me figure out a way to cut out something, somewhere.  Do we really need to do the sight word cards and spelling cards every single time if it's taking several days to get through one lesson?  Would it be better to skip the fluency drills some of the time?  I refuse to do Barton on the weekends...not going to happen.  4 days a week of wanting to rip my hair out trying to get him to focus is enough.  I might consider doing fluency drills and the sight word stuff on the 5th day, but not go through a lesson.

Edited January 4, 2017 by caedmyn

[frogger]

I completely understand. I would continue to keep up the 25-30 minutes of Barton with the focus on the phonics part of the lesson. I would schedule the sight words as a completely separate thing. So maybe do Barton in the morning. Then before you eat lunch do just the sight words or sight words and fluency drill before and after. You can make the flash cards and keep them in a separate folder with the checklist so it feels like something different. Maybe have him write them on a white board instead. Whatever works for you but make the sight words like a different activity all together.

 

Really my boys can still only handle 40 minutes of Barton at a time and we worked our way there. Over the years I have experimented with a wide variety of schedules to move them along faster but not totally depress us. If you split things up too much it takes all day and that is depressing. But two sessions isn't too bad especially if you get the one that is more difficult out of the way first.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I think Frogger has some good suggestions.  

 

Been a while since I did the fluency drills so I don't remember clearly but I know that DS needed them and DD didn't.  DS couldn't do a full session of fluency drills AND a full lesson of Barton so we didn't.  I had to customize the program to fit my particular kid.  I believe it said that you ideally could do all 4 pages at the beginning  and end of each session with a cold reading and a warmed up reading (so reading each list twice during each session) if the child is up to it and can successfully read the material but it isn't something you are supposed to press and not every child is able to.  (FWIW, I do think the instructions are a bit confusing.  I read pretty quickly and accurately and I was usually unable to quickly and accurately read all 4 lists twice in 5 minutes, even though I came close.  Obviously a child with decoding and fluency issues would not have much chance.  I think there is something lost in the translation for the instructions for the fluency drills since the way it reads this expectation seems woefully unrealistic.)

 

I agree with Frogger on maybe separating out the sight word and fluency stuff and do that in maybe a 10 minute session at a different time of day.  

 

Even if you want to keep all the components of Barton as one session, you can absolutely modify what you need to.  The session is only supposed to take 5 minutes at the beginning and 5 minutes at the end of a lesson so I say just keep to the 5 minutes or less.  If he is really struggling with getting through the fluency pages you will have to modify quite a bit to keep in that 5 minute window.  Do what you need to.

 

IIRC there are two methods.  I think you would probably be better off doing the second method.  Have your son read for 2 minutes from the real words page and stop when he is done, whether he has finished the list or not.  Mark where he stopped and mark whatever words he missed on your copy of the fluency drill, then review those words in particular, and record his results the way it is indicated on the page.  Do the cold reading then the warmed up reading.  Just do the real words.  That will take 4 minutes at the beginning of the lesson and 4 at the end.  

 

Maybe the next day do the real words in one cold reading, record his results, and do the nonsense words lists in a cold and a warmed up reading using the 2 minute timer again.  The next day try to get in both again, but if his speed has improved he might be able to get both a cold and a warmed up reading of both lists before and after the lesson.  

 

Skip the sight word and phrases lists for the time being.  Once he seems to have mastered the real words and nonsense words list then do the sight word and phrase lists the same way.  Even if he goes on to another lesson, you can stick with the fluency drill you are currently working on unless you think it would help to just move on when he moves on to the next lesson and continue the pattern.  Mainly, don't overwhelm him.  

 

As for the sight words that are incorporated into the lesson, are you only doing 3 sight words each session?  And are you doing the things recommended in the TM?  If he is really struggling with just doing 3 sight words to mastery before moving on I would recommend cutting it down to two.

 

How are you pacing the sections of the primary lessons?  Have you found a good rhythm?  I found that with DD and DS they needed a consistent, predictable break point.  They each had areas that usually went more smoothly and areas they struggled or started to get frustrated with but the areas were different for each kid.  I tried to pace the lesson so we ended on a reasonably good note, without too much exhaustion.  

 

I think with DD for Level 3 I usually did the following:

 

Day 1:  The beginning activity (Was that reviewing the tiles?  Sorry.  Been a while since we've been at Level 3.)  then New Material #1 plus the tile work (spell real words on tile, read nonsense words on tile, spell nonsense words on tile) for only NM #1.

 

Day 2: Brief review of NM #1 then do all of New Material #2 and the tile work for that part plus a couple of words to review #1.  At that point she would be exhausted so we would stop again.  

 

Day 3: We would briefly review NM #1 and NM #2 then read real words on paper then spell real words on paper, plus go through the three sight word reading cards/sight word spelling cards.  

 

Day 4:  Reading and spelling phrases and sight words.  

 

Day 5:  Reading sentences and spelling sentences then reading the story.  

 

(I didn't do the sight words every day, just where the lesson called for it.)  

 

Even with this, sometimes DD needed a lot more time.  Sometimes I would move through day three then take a day off to let it all percolate, then go back and review the new material again with tile using the extra words provided.  After that we would move through the rest of the lesson.

 

Theoretically, Level 3 will only take a few months.  Even if you were to take 2 weeks per lesson to really help him solidify each lesson, he would be done in 6 months.  Going more slowly now, making sure he is solid and internalizing the material, will net greater benefits later on.  His ability to cover more material should improve with time.  DD started out sometimes needing 2 weeks or longer to really internalize the material.  Now?  She can usually cover an entire lesson in 2-3 days.

 

Gotta run but if I think of anything else I will try and post later.  Hugs.  I know this is frustrating.

Edited January 4, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[Jenn in CA]

I think when Susan Barton talks about how long to do something, the context is a tutor who spends an hour 3x/week with a student. So, don't worry about how long she says to do things.

 

We did fluency drills for 2-3 minutes each session: Either "how many words can you read in 2 minutes" (usually on the first time thru a new page) or "How long will it take you to read 1 column" (then recording a time to beat). They really worked, but it took months.

 

My girls were younger when they started Barton (7). We dropped sight word spelling (the cards) after a while. I figure I will come back to them when they're older, and have had a lot more repeated exposure to those words in reading. If there's a sight word in the dictated phrases/sentences, I just tell them how to spell it. That has saved a lot of time. But, we did the sight word fluency pages which worked great.

 

My severely dyslexic girl spent about a year on level 3. She is a few lessons into level 4 and it's going faster now. Don't rush. Putting time pressure on your child doesn't help at all. There's no hurry.

 

We've done just 15-20 minutes 3-4 days per week, and I've found that to be enough to make steady progress. I don't think doing more would have helped dd to read faster, honestly. It would have burned her out.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Jenn in CA

[caedmyn]

I am doing the sight word reading with all the words he missed, and the spelling with three words at a time.  As far as I can tell that's how the manual says to do it.  

 

I think I will try adding a 5th day with just fluency drills and sight words, and the other 4 days alternate between sight word reading/spelling and fluency drills, so we're only doing one extra thing each day.  I do not want to do another session each day, even if it's a short one...I don't think it will happen regularly, especially once I start doing Barton 1 with DS6.  DS8's going to need to do virtually every sight word as a spelling word, so one day a week isn't going to be enough on those, but hopefully three days a week will be.  That will save a little time and hopefully he'll still make decent progress.  Maybe I will try half a page at a time for the fluency drills.  He may not need the sight word drills at this point since we're doing the flashcards already, and we did a lot of sight word fluency drills with our previous reading program, so those aren't as difficult for him as blends are.

 

We haven't really settled into a schedule for it yet as we're only on lesson 3 of level 3, but I think we will probably end up doing something similar to what you posted, OneStepAtATime.

 

I do hope he starts moving faster as he progresses.  It's really discouraging to think that he's going to be moving this slowly for the entire program.

[TheReader]

I think your adjustments sound good, but I really want to encourage you....you have to settle into the realization that dyslexia remediation is a marathon, not a sprint. Barton is meant to get up to a high school level, so this is your future for several more years. And, the goal is fluency and mastery, so even if he doesn't hit the last level until further in high school than anticipated, as long as he finishes by graduation, you and he will have succeeded.

 

This will all go so much more smoothly if you are able to accept that, to realize each kid is going to take a different amount of time to get through it, and to remember that progress is the goal, not speed. I would encourage you to really keep records of his progress, not for any state issues, but for your own encouragement. Write down how many words he gets through in 2 minutes, or how long it takes him to do a page of fluency drills, and keep track. Check off the sight words as he learns them and keep all this out where you can look at it, so that a month from now, or three months from now, when you are still discouraged at how long he takes, you can see that he has, in fact, improved and it has, in fact, been worth it.

 

Believe me, I know it's a really long road....I'm right where you are with my own son, only he's nearly 12, and so our time is even shorter. But Barton is helping, now that we've found it, and I finally have hope, I finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. I hope you are able to get to this place too, instead of always frustrated. It will make things so much easier for you. I know it's hard, but hang in there. Just remember, it's a marathon....not a sprint.

[Lecka]

Sight words and blends were both extremely hard and time-consuming for my son.

 

Those were some of his hardest things, along with just learning to blend.

 

I remember one time having him struggle with the word "act" because of the -ct blend.

 

It would seem ridiculous for a word with 3 letters (at that point).

 

But he did not go that slowly at every level. There were things farther on that were much easier for him, that he picked up much easier.

 

It didn't all take that long.

 

It is different for every kid, but just bc he takes a long time with sight words and blends doesn't mean things will stay this hard/slow as time goes on.

 

For whatever reason (well I know it relates to his articulation) consonants were hard for my son and consonant blends were so hard.

 

And sight words.

 

But multisyllable words went much smoother. Much, much smoother.

 

It ended up that the blends/sight words time was the end of the worst part for him.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Lecka

[OneStepAtATime]

I am doing the sight word reading with all the words he missed, and the spelling with three words at a time.  As far as I can tell that's how the manual says to do it.  

With regards to the bolded, are you meaning the sight word lists within the lessons or the sight word lists for fluency drills?  If it is the former, then no, you only review 3 words at a time for reading sight words in the lessons and three words at a time for spelling sight words within the lessons.  Keep track on the official checklist and don't move on until those three for each are mastered.  As one is mastered you can add in another one from the list he is working on.  Just 3.  Don't add in more.  And if they overlap, say he needs work on reading and spelling one particular word then you don't add more.  Just have that one word in both the reading and the spelling flash cards.

 

For instance, lets say you have gone through the list for lesson 1 and he ends up missing 7 of the sight words for reading.  Maybe it was to, was, this, are, what, has and said.  You put the first three on flash cards and mark them with the R for reading review.  You only review those first three reading words in the lesson exercises.  Table the rest for now.  On the spelling side of that list maybe he misses 10 words and some overlap with the ones he missed while reading.  Maybe was is a word he missed while reading AND while spelling.  On the flash card for that word you mark an R for the reading and an S for the spelling and use the same flash card and the other exercises for reviewing both the reading side and the spelling side for that word.  Only do 3 spelling words and three reading words, even if a word overlaps.  In other words, don't do all the reading words that were missed.  Just do the first 3.  Once one is mastered, go back to that checklist and add in the next one.  Even if it means that you move on to Level 4 while he is still working on sight words from Level 3, that's fine.  

 

FWIW, DD is a level ahead in sight words compared to the Level she is in for regular Barton lessons.  Thankfully a very kind boardie is helping me get sight words from the next level since I don't yet own it and was hoping to hold off until nearing the end of the current level.  DS is a level behind in sight words compared to where he is in Barton.  I just keep all the sight words and sight word checklists in a separate notebook so I can keep moving at whatever pace the kids are able to handle.  Different kids progress at different rates in the sight words.  That's fine.  Don't rush.  

[Lecka]

My younger son has better retention when he has fewer new/target things at a time.

 

If he does better, he can have more new/target things at the same time.

 

If he does worse, he can have fewer.

 

I did not realize it would make such a big difference, but I do see his retention increase with doing less at a time, even though it seems like it would be worse with going slower.

 

But with the right (maybe low, maybe high) amount, he has better retention.

 

I wish I had known this more when doing reading with my older son.

 

I could have done "less" with a better result sometimes if I had realized.

 

It is not really less if it is the right amount, though, because it will pay off with retention.

[OneStepAtATime]

I am doing the sight word reading with all the words he missed, and the spelling with three words at a time.  As far as I can tell that's how the manual says to do it.  

 

I think I will try adding a 5th day with just fluency drills and sight words, and the other 4 days alternate between sight word reading/spelling and fluency drills, so we're only doing one extra thing each day.  I do not want to do another session each day, even if it's a short one...I don't think it will happen regularly, especially once I start doing Barton 1 with DS6.  DS8's going to need to do virtually every sight word as a spelling word, so one day a week isn't going to be enough on those, but hopefully three days a week will be.  That will save a little time and hopefully he'll still make decent progress.  Maybe I will try half a page at a time for the fluency drills.  He may not need the sight word drills at this point since we're doing the flashcards already, and we did a lot of sight word fluency drills with our previous reading program, so those aren't as difficult for him as blends are.

 

We haven't really settled into a schedule for it yet as we're only on lesson 3 of level 3, but I think we will probably end up doing something similar to what you posted, OneStepAtATime.

 

I do hope he starts moving faster as he progresses.  It's really discouraging to think that he's going to be moving this slowly for the entire program.

• A 5th day for just fluency and sight words might help.  I like the idea of alternating on the other days.  Sound like  a good plan to me.  

 

• You know you and your family best.  If you think two shorter sessions a day won't happen then yeah, don't even try going down that road right now unless you have to.

 

• The schedule will probably develop naturally, just pay attention to when a good natural break seems to work for your child.

 

• As for moving faster, I agree with the others, this is not a sprint, this is a marathon.  

 

• Don't look at this as a box to check off or something that he has to rush all the way through before he can move on and be reading/spelling "normally".    I get the feeling that you are thinking he has to get through all of Barton to be able to function well in elementary.  That isn't true.

•  Maybe it would help if you recognize that Barton is meant to be a language arts program for Elementary and Middle School and possibly High School.  Take the long view.  Don't rush.  This isn't just a basic remediation program.  It is a Language Arts program to cover several years.  It just happens to be one designed for dyslexics instead of NT kids.   If he were in a Language arts program not designed for dyslexics would you be trying to rush him through all the levels in rapid succession?  Level 7 and 8 are more for middle schoolers, anyway.  Level 9 and 10 are prep for High School and can be done in High School.  Can they be done earlier?  Yes.  If a child is ready, absolutely they can be done earlier.  They don't have to be, though.

 

• FWIW, most children are able to progress through Level 5-10 doing at least 2 levels a year, sometimes 3.  At that rate he would probably finish by 6th grade (and he might not be ready for Level 9 and 10 at that age so he might need to slow down anyway).  Even if he needed to take a full year on each level , the schedule still works.  He is young:

 

Level 3 - 2nd grade

Level 4 - 3rd grade

Level 5 - 4th grade

Level 6 - 5th grade

Level 7 - 6th grade

Level 8 - 7th grade

Level 9 - 8th grade

Level 10 - 9th grade

 

Does that make sense?  I hope I am making some sense.   :)

Edited January 5, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[Julie of KY]

Take a deep breath - it's not easy.

 

I break up my Barton into about 3x/day - short with the 1st being the longest and newest work.

 

Session 1 - Work on the main Barton lesson - I aim to do all the parts of a lesson over one week; sometimes this works, sometimes it takes longer.

 

Session 2 - work on sight words and do a fluency page. We only work on a limited number at time and if it's taking too long, we'll table some of them. I often add in a short reader at this session that we read a few pages of (we're farther in Barton than you).

 

Session 3 - I put here something I'd like to get to, but it doesn't always get done every day. Usually an extra page from the end of a Barton lesson; another fluency drill page or some more reading that is easy review.

 

I have separated out spelling and I'm doing All About Spelling separate from Barton - very slowly.

[frogger]

Your schedule looks good. It will probably change over the years as your child struggles with one aspect or another and you find certain things come easy. It is wise to know what will or won't happen because it won't help to plan something and not do it.

 

 

 

I do hope he starts moving faster as he progresses. It's really discouraging to think that he's going to be moving this slowly for the entire program.

 

I just want to say I agree with the others that it is a marathon not a sprint. It is frustrating because none of us (as parents) signed up to spend so may hours of our life on reading. I'm going through this with two children also. One isn't dyslexic but has speech issues. Sure maybe he progresses with Barton faster but then I have to do all these speech drills. Another needs help with social interaction. I get it. Rant and complain here. Then when you are with your child take it calmly because stress doesn't help them at all.

 

 

But!

 

I want to encourage you that it is very unlikely that it will always be this slow! I got stuck on level 4 for well over a year but level 5 took 3 months. I'm always thankful that often an easy "for us" lesson comes after one of torture. Your child will also have different abilities with a middle school brain than an 8 year old brain. If blending is hard for your child then maybe splitting the word apart will be easier as mentioned above. So you can rant and we will understand but don't be discouraged. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

[OneStepAtATime]

 

But!

 

I want to encourage you that it is very unlikely that it will always be this slow! I got stuck on level 4 for well over a year but level 5 took 3 months. I'm always thankful that often an easy "for us" lesson comes after one of torture. Your child will also have different abilities with a middle school brain than an 8 year old brain. If blending is hard for your child then maybe splitting the word apart will be easier as mentioned above. So you can rant and we will understand but don't be discouraged. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

Agreed!  

 

I hope we aren't discouraging you.  Please feel free to vent. 

 

And yes, it is unlikely it will always be this slow (but honestly I don't think your pace is that slow...DD was way slower and she was in Middle School when she started Barton.  It took a looong time to get through Level 1, 2 and 3 for her.).  Level 4 was a horrific bear of a level for DD.  I thought we would never, ever, successfully complete that level.  I was not looking forward to continuing with Barton and wouldn't have if it weren't working where nothing else had.  Then we hit level 5.  Honestly, it was like eating cake after eating twigs.   :laugh:  She breezed through Level 5 compared to Level 4.  And it was fun because it just clicked for her.  Like night and day, those two levels.   Level 6 took more time, but was still way easier than Level 4 had been for her.  She actually just finished Level 6 right before Christmas.  She will take the post test for Level 6 on Monday before moving on to Level 7.

 

Different kids respond to different lessons and different levels differently but they won't all be hard.  Hang in there.

 

:grouphug:

[Julie of KY]

Agreeing that you can only go at the pace of your child. The first several were torture for my son. We went very slowly through each of levels 1,2,3 and repeated each before moving on. It was discouraging to get to the end of a level, decide we need to start over and it still take forever when we had already done it.

 

Level 4 is notoriously hard for everyone, so it's not likely to get better real soon. However it will eventually get better and it helps when they can start reading some "real" books.

 

My little guy just started level 6 and I'm finally feeling like we are making real progress. I felt like my daughter was making progress much sooner than level 6 though.

[caedmyn]

With regards to the bolded, are you meaning the sight word lists within the lessons or the sight word lists for fluency drills?  If it is the former, then no, you only review 3 words at a time for reading sight words in the lessons and three words at a time for spelling sight words within the lessons.  Keep track on the official checklist and don't move on until those three for each are mastered.  As one is mastered you can add in another one from the list he is working on.  Just 3.  Don't add in more.  And if they overlap, say he needs work on reading and spelling one particular word then you don't add more.  Just have that one word in both the reading and the spelling flash cards.

 

 

I don't see where it says to only do 3 for reading sight words in the manual (for level 3).  Maybe I missed it, but I did go back and look and still am not seeing it.  Anyway, I emailed Barton for clarificiation on that.

 

 

•  

 

• As for moving faster, I agree with the others, this is not a sprint, this is a marathon.  

•  Maybe it would help if you recognize that Barton is meant to be a language arts program for Elementary and Middle School and possibly High School.  Take the long view.  Don't rush.  This isn't just a basic remediation program.  It is a Language Arts program to cover several years.  It just happens to be one designed for dyslexics instead of NT kids.   If he were in a Language arts program not designed for dyslexics would you be trying to rush him through all the levels in rapid succession?  Level 7 and 8 are more for middle schoolers, anyway.  Level 9 and 10 are prep for High School and can be done in High School.  Can they be done earlier?  Yes.  If a child is ready, absolutely they can be done earlier.  They don't have to be, though.

 

• FWIW, most children are able to progress through Level 5-10 doing at least 2 levels a year, sometimes 3.  At that rate he would probably finish by 6th grade (and he might not be ready for Level 9 and 10 at that age so he might need to slow down anyway).  Even if he needed to take a full year on each level , the schedule still works.  He is young:

 

Level 3 - 2nd grade

Level 4 - 3rd grade

Level 5 - 4th grade

Level 6 - 5th grade

Level 7 - 6th grade

Level 8 - 7th grade

Level 9 - 8th grade

Level 10 - 9th grade

 

Does that make sense?  I hope I am making some sense.   :)

 

I do get that it's a marathon...I just feel like I am going to spend the rest of my life (or at least the next 10 years, with a good chance of ending up with 5 dyslexic kids to go through it with) doing Barton, so I don't want to drag it out any more than I have to.  I have no plans to do levels 9 & 10 at this point if I can avoid them.

 

I wouldn't be trying to rush him through a regular LA program, but I would have goals and a plan for what I wanted him to accomplish within a year's time.  That's one thing that bothers me about Barton, you can't really plan it, you just have to go with the flow and deal with whatever the pace ends up being.  I do not do well with things being up in the air.

[OneStepAtATime]

I don't see where it says to only do 3 for reading sight words in the manual (for level 3).  Maybe I missed it, but I did go back and look and still am not seeing it.  Anyway, I emailed Barton for clarificiation on that.

 

I do get that it's a marathon...I just feel like I am going to spend the rest of my life (or at least the next 10 years, with a good chance of ending up with 5 dyslexic kids to go through it with) doing Barton, so I don't want to drag it out any more than I have to.  I have no plans to do levels 9 & 10 at this point if I can avoid them.

 

I wouldn't be trying to rush him through a regular LA program, but I would have goals and a plan for what I wanted him to accomplish within a year's time.  That's one thing that bothers me about Barton, you can't really plan it, you just have to go with the flow and deal with whatever the pace ends up being.  I do not do well with things being up in the air.

You are right, in the manual it indicates to do all of the reading words.  I had forgotten that a Barton tutor was the one that advised me to adjust this to just 3 reading words and three spelling words for my particular kiddos.  Sorry for the misinformation.  FWIW, it did work better for both of my kids to limit the sight words we focused on for reading and for spelling.  They retained them better and internalized them more quickly that way.

 

I also totally understand wanting a plan you can follow, a schedule that makes sense that you can hang your hat on, so to speak.  I like schedules.  I don't do well without schedules.  It was hard for me to get all my schedules and plans in place and realize that because of my kiddos struggle areas and areas of strength, all my original plans were for naught.  I sympathize with your concerns and frustrations.  And you have more kids than I so it is probably even more frustrating for you than it was for me.   :grouphug:

 

I still plan things out, by the way.  Planning things out is still absolutely helpful for me and for the kids. In fact, I'm such a planner I have plans entered into Homeschool Planet for the next two years.   :laugh:  I just had to accept that those plans are only rough ideas of what may happen and I have to be flexible enough to move at a different pace/change up those plans when needed.  Accepting that and embracing it keeps me from going crazy.

Edited January 8, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[OneStepAtATime]

I don't see where it says to only do 3 for reading sight words in the manual (for level 3).  Maybe I missed it, but I did go back and look and still am not seeing it.  Anyway, I emailed Barton for clarificiation on that.

 

I do get that it's a marathon...I just feel like I am going to spend the rest of my life (or at least the next 10 years, with a good chance of ending up with 5 dyslexic kids to go through it with) doing Barton, so I don't want to drag it out any more than I have to.  I have no plans to do levels 9 & 10 at this point if I can avoid them.

 

I wouldn't be trying to rush him through a regular LA program, but I would have goals and a plan for what I wanted him to accomplish within a year's time.  That's one thing that bothers me about Barton, you can't really plan it, you just have to go with the flow and deal with whatever the pace ends up being.  I do not do well with things being up in the air.

As for Barton being the issue with scheduling, it really has little to do with Barton and everything to do with kiddos that have very different ways of processing information and very different co-morbid issues and strengths, making it very hard for ANY program's pacing to be predictable.  

 

I love my kids and I see so many amazing strengths shining through.  I love seeing that aspect of this process and of seeing them overcome their areas of struggle.  But trying to help them in their areas of weakness is just...not terribly predictable.

[OneStepAtATime]

I do get that it's a marathon...I just feel like I am going to spend the rest of my life (or at least the next 10 years, with a good chance of ending up with 5 dyslexic kids to go through it with) doing Barton, so I don't want to drag it out any more than I have to.  I have no plans to do levels 9 & 10 at this point if I can avoid them.

I wouldn't be trying to rush him through a regular LA program, but I would have goals and a plan for what I wanted him to accomplish within a year's time.  That's one thing that bothers me about Barton, you can't really plan it, you just have to go with the flow and deal with whatever the pace ends up being.  I do not do well with things being up in the air.

 

If you actually DO end up with 5 dyslexic kiddos, by the way, then Barton may end up being your saving grace.  Trying to pay for outside tutoring for 5 kids would be nightmarishly expensive.  If you don't want to do Levels 9 and 10, then really you aren't looking at that long a commitment for each child in the grand scheme of things since this program replaces regular language arts programs especially through Level 4.  Some of your kids may move very quickly.  Even if others need more time, once you get comfortable with the program it might not be so bad.  

 

I remember a blog post from a woman who used Barton with all 10 of her kids.  Some were dyslexic and some were not but she used it as their Language Arts spine and just moved each kid through at their own pace.  Every child got their own spell checker in Level 4, with their name on it.  Kind of a right of passage in their house.  

 

I remember thinking why in the world would anyone use something this intense with kids that don't need it?  Well, because she got to know it really well with the first couple of kids and was able to tweak it to work well with all the others, whether they were dyslexic or not.  The program was very predictable in the sense that it basically uses the same format throughout the levels.  She knew when and how and where and why for each lesson.  Once she was comfortable with it, she could modify specific lessons and pacing to fit each child without having to reinvent the wheel each time.

 

Think about it.  Not having to buy anything else for language arts for your children for the rest of elementary, except for adding in a writing program after level 4 and incorporating outside reading options as soon as the children are ready sounds kind of freeing in a way, at least to me.  Middle school you can add in whatever else is needed but at that point they should be mostly through the core of Barton.  Keep the lessons short, make some goals and plans, but be flexible if you need to adjust, and just give yourself time to get used to how this program fits for your family.

 

Honestly, DD and I actually find Barton kind of a relief at times.  We know the program well, now, and we know what to do when she struggles and what to do if she is moving along much more smoothly than anticipated.  I have our Barton area set up JUST for Barton, isolated from the rest of the house, so it is almost like our safe haven now.  Believe me, when we were getting through Level 3 and certainly Level 4 I never thought I would be saying Barton can be a relief or a safe haven, but there you go.  Part of the change was my getting more comfortable with the system, part of the change was my finally internally accepting that we are in this for the long haul and that some days are going to go better than others, part of the change was DD maturing and recognizing that this program really is helping, certainly embracing shorter daily lessons helped, and part of the change was actually finally getting successfully through Level 4 and reaping the rewards of making it over that hump.

 

You can still plan this out, still have goals.  They just aren't maybe the same goals that an NT kid would have at the same age.

 

For instance, this spring your goal for your eldest child could be

• Learn all the closed syllable rules to mastery.
• Master the following sight words:_______________________________
• Gain fluency with the following words: _____________________________

In other words, read through the material, make goals that seem realistic based on your current pacing, but adjust as necessary.  And check back on what has actually been accomplished.  Sometimes we focus so much on the things that are not working as we would like that we fail to acknowledge how far our child has come.

[PeterPan]

Someone may have already said this, but working on RAN/RAS will make fluency easier. Also, you can put the words into Quizlet and have the kids drill them at one times and places, like in the car, in the grocery store line, waiting for you to tuck them in bed, etc.

[frogger]

Oh, I forgot sight words were one thing my son could study on his own! How could I forget that!

 

I would test him of course but the next day I would make a list of his 3-5 words he got wrong. This is when I knew he could read them and I did it with him the first few times so he knew what to do. He was to look at the word carefully as the manual suggests to get it in their mind then he was to cover the word and write it and then check right away before he tried a second time. He was required to show me when he was done of course so I could see he'd done things correctly but that took me less than 30 seconds.

[caedmyn]

How do you work on RAN?

[TheReader]

How do you work on RAN?

 

This one I can answer; we spent close to a full year drilling on this. 

 

For us, we did: 

*flash cards -- any picture card, that has pictures your kid knows well. Work through a stack, "how many can you name in 2 minutes...?" Goal is to increase the number. 

 

*Numbers/letters -- we found a game called Distraction, that is a set of number cards, but you could use number flash cards as well. Do it the same way as the flash cards, for one way. For another way, you are trying to build a string he can retain -- can he repeat back 3 digits? 4 digits? 5 digits? Forwards and backwards? What we did with this was he would draw a card and say the number, then I would draw a card and repeat both his & my number; he would draw another card and repeat all 3 numbers; I would draw and repeat all 4; and so forth & so on until one of us messed up. I think we didn't start trying to go backwards until he hit 5 digits in a row (but then we started with 3 in both directions, not 5 backwards, if that makes sense). 

 

*Once the child knows letters by name, you can do a mix of letters and numbers (in the same sequence). To start with I did initials and birthdays (not ones he knew, but just how I would come up with combos), but you could just be random with flashcards. Eventually I think the goal is for him to be able to do this w/o the visual but my son needed/needs that so that's what we did. 

 

*for simple verbal stuff, we played variations of the game "I'm going to grandma's house..." I didn't focus on whether each  new thing started with the next letter (do you know this game? You say "I'm going to grandma's house and I'm going to take an apple...." the next person adds on "I'm going to take an apple and a banana...." and so forth); we just named stuff. To tweak it, we would do categories instead. I'm going to the beach (and name all the things we could think of for the beach); I'm going to the grocery store, and I want to buy.... (and name all the grocery items); stuff like that. Some days I would have him name as many things as he could think of, for 2 mins at a time, and see how many he could name. Some days we'd do it like the game and take turns, seeing how many he could remember/repeat back to me. 

 

*sometimes we would work on following directions -- Simon Says, for example. I know that's not strictly RAN, but it was part of what my son lacked back then, and honestly, all the "this was for this, that was for that" kind of blurs together for me these days. We literally spent a year (when he was 8, same as your son) doing nothing but this, not even working on letter sounds anymore at that point. 

 

*letter/blend/sight word bingo -- we would do this, with stuff he knew. He knew some letter sounds then, so I could sometimes do this. It made it more fun for him and solidified things. Usually I would show him a flash card and he'd mark it. You could do this with letters, blends, sight words, etc., whatever he knows. It isn't a RAN thing either but helps with the fluency because it helps with the visual processing speed. 

 

Other visual processing things are hidden pictures (like in Highlights) (which their website has free), cross word puzzles (if you can find simple ones, with no backwards words), mazes, dot-to-dots, matching games, matching worksheets (where he has to scan a list of words and circle all those that match) (or items, etc.), the Bingo, things like that. 

 

There's a great game called Dwarves & Dice, we used it a LOT for that. Or there's a new game out with stacking cups, and you match them to a picture, but it's more fast paced. Anything that gets him scanning things visually and identifying something. Set is another good one we used for this. 

 

I'm sure I'm veering off into stuff you didn't ask about and don't care about....all of these things blur together for me and I forget which was called what. Hopefully some of this helps you though. 

[PeterPan]

Just to split hairs, RAN/RAS is technically rapid naming, not working memory.  The CTOPP has a couple RAN/RAS measures, and ideally you'd get the CTOPP done BEFORE you do all these interventions. Low RAN/RAS is, from what I've read, a lagging indicator of dyslexia. Strong RAN/RAS scores are also correlated with strong readers, so it's definitely something we want to improve!

 

See if this link works

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4rcl6f0uo70esmv/AAAaGAHw3_YTMEQZSw_WI-t_a?dl=0

 

It should be a folder of printable pages to work on RAN/RAS. Adding in the working memory component is fine, but at it's most basic we're just trying to work on the actual naming. So it can be naming of pictures, digits, colors, whatever. Thing is, the most complex you get, the more you're bringing in other therapy areas, other disability areas. So, for instance, if the dc has lexicon issues or articulation issues, then you want to simplify out those as factors. That's why I used only colors and numbers, because it gave me a discrete set of things to teach so I could eliminate the articulation of the words as a factor. Once I was sure he could say the words fluidly, the main exercise was the actual rapid naming of them, not whether he could say them. 

 

And fwiw, my pages were modeled after some things in an article I found through the S'cool Moves blog. So they're not unique to me, etc. I think I've linked the article in the past. There's also RAN/RAS exercise software.

 

I *think* the CTOPP also had them rapid naming letters of the alphabet, iirc. That would be fine too. That would have been a lot of articulation for my ds, but it would be fine. Iirc, one of the measures my ds didn't do well in was one we hadn't practiced, where the ones we had practiced were pretty good. My ds has autism, so things don't necessarily generalize. I assumed, in his case, that not generalizing from one type of RAN/RAS to another was a generalization/autism issue and not necessarily something that would affect the general population. Apparently in general just one type of practice would be enough.

 

I *definitely* think I saw a boost in ds' speed in reading and his reading fluency with the RAN/RAS work, which is why I always strongly recommend it. It's free and could give you huge gains. I printed the pages and stuffed them in page protectors. Then you can rotate, read on the diagonal, whatever strikes you. At least that's how we did it. :)

 

Also, I REALLY like Quizlet. Like I'm nutso for it. Pop those Barton words in there and drill 'em that way. The Quizlet app will work on your phone, tablet, computer, etc. Then you can drill it whereever you are in little snitches of time. Also works offline. And it has snazzy games like matching/memory, spelling from falling letters, etc. LOVE Quizlet. It will even read the cards if you want it to.

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Edited January 10, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[TheReader]

Thanks for clarifying that, OhElizabeth! I was in such a fog that year, we had to work on so.many.things. 

 

Yes, the RAN stuff was just the naming, picture cards, crayons (I would go through a 64 box of crayons, and just have him name each color I pulled out; he could give me just "blue/yellow/red/orange/etc" not the full crayola name, but it helped me randomize), number cards, objects (we'd sit in his room, or the kitchen, or the living room, and I'd touch things and he'd say the name), just as much variety as we could muster. Two minutes at a time, and try to get an increase in the number of things (*and keep a different count log for each category of stuff) over time. 

 

I always forget what each of the other things were for, that we did. We did them all for so long.....he had (has?) major deficits in RAN, working memory, processing speed, visual processing, auditory processing, phonemic awareness....we spent a solid year on all of those basics, just building all of that up. 

 

I do still have the file of suggestions that our original evaluator gave us; his first eval, we were in Brazil, she was here in the US, and she knew we had no access to anything there, at least nothing in English. She filled pages and pages with recommendations for each aspect he needed....if anyone ever needs it, just message me. I'm happy to send copies of the pages/topics anyone might need. (that's where all these different ideas came from). 

 

Also, Caedmyn, I was thinking about your "lack of clear goals" and I thought of something; I know Susan Barton says on the website that if a tutor needs IEP goals to match a specific level, to message her; perhaps if you were to write, she'd be willing to send that to you. I don't know if she'll only send them to folks with the multi-student plan or to homeschool moms too, but worth a shot. Then it would maybe at least break down the Level(s) into manageable goals and you could more easily see the progress, know what you're aiming for, etc. Even if you assign timelines/"reach by..." dates, and have to move them later, it could help and then this way also you don't have to do the work yourself of figuring out "what's a manageable goal for this??" 

 

Alternately, maybe you could, for the time being, double the time you want it to take (so, maybe 2 wks per lesson, or 3 wks per lesson, or use however long it is taking you right now), and "schedule" it out that way...then, as your son improves/gets a little faster, you'll be able to move up the schedule, which will feel nice :) 

 

Keep coming here for tips, hugs, venting....we're all pretty much in this together, and we get it. It's hard, and it sucks. We just have to keep doing it, 'cause it's what our kiddos need.  ((hugs))