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UPDATE: ACT questions was Really sad and frustrated with our situation (seeking formal dyslexia diagnosis)


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My son is 16 1/2. I knew when he was in K that something was up with his learning and after much research and consulting a close friend who tutors dyslexics I was confident that that was what we were dealing with. I still have no doubts. He has all the signs/symptoms. I considered using the school system for testing but we were happy as homeschoolers and I was doing everything in my power to teach him.

 

He learned to read by age 10, never has struggled with math (ok a bit with word problems but he's stayed at grade level and we've worked those issues out usually by having him read the problem aloud). In ninth grade we tried an online charter school and I held my breath to see how he did knowing if he struggled I could get them to test him. He got straight As Ă°Å¸ËœÅ 

 

We hated the school though and went back to homeschooling the next year. I started to get really nervous about SAT/ACT and decided a diagnosis was needed. I was able to get on a wait list for a neuropsychologist that was covered by our insurance but it was over a year wait.

 

In the mean time, my husband went self employed and we lost our insurance. We have a health share at this point and I'm fairly certain it wouldn't be covered. Even if it was it would

mostl fall under our unshared amount (like a deductible and they would require payment in full

up front which we don't have)

 

They called and he's up. But we don't have the cash to pay for it. He is midway through his junior year and I just don't know what to do.

 

He is an extremely talented musician. He plans on a music major and wants to get into BYU Provo which is a very difficult school to get in to especially for homeschoolers.

 

He has not taken the ACT yet. I was waiting in hopes of having him tested and getting accommodations. I'm just not sure we will be able to get the testing done now.

 

He has to get at least a 27. That is the lowest score they will accept from a homeschooler. I just don't see that happening. He still reads slowly and the time limit will just not work. He works at grade level and does just fine. Even his spelling is adequate now as he has just worked his tail off to get to this point.

 

I am so stressed out about this and I don't know what to do. I would love to get tutoring for him for the ACT like through Huntington but we can't afford that either at the moment. I feel like we are just down to the wire now. Our financial situation is temporary but we are out of time for him.

 

He is such a hard worker and a very smart and talented kid. I don't want this testing thing to hold him back. I just feel helpless.

 

Is there something I'm missing?

Edited by busymama7
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My understanding with health shares is that sometimes even non-covered stuff will end up covered in full when the need is great.  Can you look into that?

 

Can you ask a family member for a loan?  

 

Can you or he pick up an evening restaurant serving job for just a month or two to make this work?

 

Can you talk about payment plans with the neuro?  

 

Can you try to crowd fund from your loved ones via social media?  

 

Do you or anyone else (grandparents) have a college fund started from him that could be "raided" for this need?

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You're in the US or elsewhere? In the US you have the legal right to evals through the ps. They can write you an IEP or at least a list of accommodations (can, if they would, not required), and you can use that to apply for the ACT accommodations. He's a junior? You have time. 

 

If you want the private eval, you may need to go into debt for it or ask grandparents for help. Some places will have something like a medical credit account. You could ask them.

 

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Purchase the ACT book and prep him yourself.

 

BTW, my fam has awesome health insurance that does not cover dyslexia testing. We have always paid out of pocket.

 

The only option I see for you is to start saving your money. Public schools test for IEP and do not diagnose. The music school is his dream, so your boy can work and save money too. We pay about $2k for testing. Without a history of testing accommodations establishing the fact that he needed and used them, your son may not receive ACT/SAT extra test taking time. He could, but I would prepare him assuming no accommodations.

Edited by Heathermomster
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It's a tricky situation, because my understanding is that the ACT wants to see a history of the accommodations being used. Have you administered any standardized testing at home? Have you documented any extra time that you allowed?

 

Does his target school admit transfer students from community college? Perhaps he can attend CC for his first year or two to get his general ed requirements out of the way and then transfer. He shouldn't need the ACT to get into CC, so that buys him some time. While he attends CC, you could continue to work on paying off the neuropsych debt.

 

You can also buy some extra time by having him take a gap year. He can work, do some volunteering, take music lessons.

 

To get input on the process for getting extra time on the ACT, you might want to change your thread title (you can do this by editing your first post in the thread).

 

If he really just can't get into his target school, work on developing a Plan B. You could post on the High School board for suggestions about guidance for music majors.

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Yes, check with your local school about the IEP process for homeschoolers. Under federal law, public schools must evaluate all students in their service area for disabilities. They will not diagnose dyslexia but can determine if he meets the school's criteria for a designation of specific learning disability in reading (SLD reading). In some school districts, that is as far as they will go for homeschoolers, and the school will not write an IEP. In other districts, they will write an IEP for homeschoolers, so you will need to check.

 

It is the IEP that would give formal indication that extra time is needed for testing. This process is free (unlike private testing) but takes a long time and has no guarantee of getting the result that you are looking for (the school could decide that he doesn't meet their criteria for extra time on testing, and you won't know until you go through the whole process).  And if he is 17 before he gets that paperwork..... it may not be enough to meet the ACT's guidelines for establishing a history of using testing accommodations.

 

Even if the diagnosis documentation won't help with the ACT, I would suggest that it is still worth it to get the neuropsych testing, unless you think he can make it through college without accommodations or help from the disability services of the university.

 

Our responses probably aren't encouraging, but don't give up. You may need to figure out some alternative ways to help him reach his goals, or his specific goals may need to change (choose a different school, maybe), but it doesn't mean that his hopes for a good future are dim. If you have to form a Plan B, he can still find a way to thrive.

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Alright so yes a bit discouraging but actually it's best to just know. If act is not likely to grant accommodations due to lack of history anyways then that is really good to know. I have wondered if it will show up anyways. Im convinced and he knows it too but he had early and consistent remediation with OG reading and he is just such a hard worker that it's not immediately obvious. I was hoping the testing would still show something but I just didn't know.

 

I have considered going through the school district but I am not sure they would do it or believe me. His only documented grades are straight As and they aren't known for listening to parents. Ă°Å¸Ëœâ€™. Also because they don't diagnose anyways I wasn't sure how helpful it would be.

 

I do kinda wish I had done it early on but thats water under the bridge. I do have an 8 year old that I'm facing the same decisions with. He's already been in the school district for severe speech delay but was released from an IEP at age 5. He shows all the signs of dyslexia but is making good progress with reading.

 

Anyways back to my teen. He does have a job but is paying off his oboe at the moment. It sounds as if the best route might be act prep anyways at this point.

 

I have done act prep with my kids but my two older ones with no learning challenges still didn't do very well (22 and 23) so I'm really looking for outside help at this point. I need to stack the odds in his favor as much as possible.

 

Thank you for your help. It is really helpful to know what we are looking at.

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I'm just so frustrated that so much is riding on a test.

 

He is extremely accomplished in so many areas. As I said he's very talented musically and I'm not just saying that at his mom. He is at college level on both piano and oboe and he is composing and competing with his piano compositions. He takes lessons in both and practices hours a day by choice. In addition he began an apprenticeship at an instrument repair shop at at 15 1/2 and has done amazing there. He works about 15-20 hours a week and the owner just loves him. Praises his work and has told him he can totally make a living at it if he chooses. He is considering opening his own shop at some point.

 

He does have options and plan Bs. He will go to BYU idaho if Provo doesn't work out. Or he could stay here and go locally either CC or the university. But his dream is BYU provo and he is so driven and such that I hate to see his challenges with reading and language hold him back.

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Has he taken a practice ACT just to benchmark where he's at? You may be (pleasantly) surprised - he sounds like a fantastic kid! Would he be willing to spend an hour and 45 minutes practicing the English and Reading portions?

Not yet. Do you think it's best to do that on paper with a prep book or is there an online format we could use? He is willing to do anything. He uses an app and answers questions. He's asked me to put test prep on his list so he does it daily. He's rather be practicing so I have to write everything down for him to do.

 

I was delaying practice testing and such hoping we could get testing and accommodations. Now it's time to move on, I can see.

Edited by busymama7
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Also... he could always do a year or two at a different school and then transfer as a junior perhaps :)

Yes for sure. The music school at BYU provo is highly competitive and I'm not sure if they take transfers. Honestly I think he will get over it quickly if he doesnt get in but I just want to do everything I can to try to prepare him.

Edited by busymama7
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1) You should continue to move forward with testing for dyslexia. I'm not sure that it'll help you for the ACT or not, but it is important to establish a diagnosis so that he can receive accommodations in college. You can highlight in a counselor letter that the ACT score is likely lower if he did not receive accommodations.

 

2) Go ahead and test prep at home. I find it easiest to take practice tests with no time limit (but record the time) so that you can see the potential score and what problems you will have with time.

 

3) I would question if homeschoolers HAVE to have a 27 on the ACT if this is not the same for everyone else. Homeschoolers should not need to be held to higher standards to be admitted. If he's looking at the music school, then I would think a good music portfolio would make up for a slightly lower ACT score.

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Ok I went to the website and it looks like they changed their policies since my oldest applied.

 

It does not list a minimum ACT score anymore. It used to.

 

It appears he will be required to take the GED even if he has competed dual enrollment credit which he will have but not more than 12-14 hours probably. They will not even look at a homeschool transcript. This does not make me happy.

 

I'm wishing we had gone with some kind of accreditation. I'm even more nervous for my current freshman as he is a serious stem student and I want to make sure he is prepared for a competitive school. Argh. We love homeschooling but I really hate this process of college admissions. We've done it twice already but neither of those students were worried about competive schools.

 

https://admissions.byu.edu/homeschooled-applicants

Edited by busymama7
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Well, in your link it says MAY be required to take the GED. IF the student has not completed the requirements for homeschoolers in their state.

 

So if your state has homeschool graduation requirements (many don't), and he meets them, it seems he would not have to take the GED.

 

It sounds to me like they just want to make sure that the homeschooled student has had a complete high school education before enrolling. You might want to call the admissions department and ask for clarification about when a GED is required.

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I had looked up the requirements (before you posted them) and I agree that I don't read it as requiring a GED. If he hasn't graduated from your homeschool high school, then he'd need a GED.

 

If the university is requiring a GED as "proof" of high school education, then I'd call HSLDA (even if you are not a member). They might call the university on behalf of all homeschoolers because it certainly is a problem for more than just you in that case.

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Someone asked for clarification in the comments and they replied with this (in part):

 

 

BYU Admissions

1. The requirement is that a student must have either completed high school or a homeschool program approved by the state, or submit a GED.

 

My state has nothing to do with homeschooled students beyond a letter of intent. That's it. So that's how t reads to me but I am going to call to be sure.

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I called for clarification today. As long as I am following the state law (letter of intent only) then he doesn't have to take the GED. She also said that to be considered competive he should get as close to the school average act score as possible. It was 29 last cycle.

 

I asked about adjustments for kids entering certain programs and she said they have to be accepted into the school first before applying for the music school. I was hoping that if they music school wanted him then it would help but no. Doesn't work like that.

 

We will take a practice act to get an idea and then go from there. Thanks for your help.

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The music school can talk to the admission office, though, if he has contact with them as a prospective student.

 

That is what they say with athletics too but coaches can talk to the admission office, too.

 

There is nothing stopping him from telling a recruiter type person in the music school that he doesn't test well and hopes he will be admitted, and see if they can make a note in his file for the admission office.

 

I don't know the ins and outs but encourage you to maybe ask on the college board, I think there are some people there who would know more.

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This is not info about BYU, but another college. DD is a dancer, so I've done a little research about college dance programs. Each school is different, but there are some where, if the dance department wants a talented student to join their program, the student will be admitted to the university on a probationary basis. They have to earn a certain GPA their first year to secure a continuing spot in the program.

 

So, yes, individual departments can have influence over admissions. You might have your son call the admissions department and ask to have a phone interview with a member of the music faculty in advance of applying. Getting on their radar early would be beneficial, and they will remember students who impress them.

 

So basically, make sure he is known by the music department before he applies to the university. I would think that he should be able to do a campus visit, sit in on some classes, have a tour, speak to faculty, etc., all BEFORE applying officially.

 

He needs to make himself known.

Edited by Storygirl
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Alright so yes a bit discouraging but actually it's best to just know. If act is not likely to grant accommodations due to lack of history anyways then that is really good to know. I have wondered if it will show up anyways. Im convinced and he knows it too but he had early and consistent remediation with OG reading and he is just such a hard worker that it's not immediately obvious. I was hoping the testing would still show something but I just didn't know.

 

ACT is not that difficult with regard to showing history (I found them easier to work with than SAT), but you do need to document things. I don't know if they are harder on those who get testing done the same year they are requesting accommodations, but since you'll need the test for college accommodations anyway, I would continue to try to figure out how to do this (ie through the public school or how to afford privately--I would check with your sharing ministry.)

 

If you haven't so far, brainstorm all the things you have ever done to accommodate his learning, and in what grades you did those things. Make a list of accommodations you used for daily work, and what you used for assessments (including math tests and any other kind of tests that you did). Include things like extended time for tests (ie, if none of your tests are timed because you know he needs extra time, document that as extended time). If you read test questions to him or allowed him to answer orally because of writing difficulties at certain ages--anything you did to accommodate his needs in instruction and in assessments, make lists of those accommodations. If you have done any remediation such as using an Orton-Gillingham based program for instructional accommodations, list that. If you include time management aids, environmental accommodations (like headphones for noise-control), write all that down. (I actually found this an interesting process, as I could see how we had gradually been able to phase out accommodations over the years, while others remained throughout.)

 

Right now, you need to have a "Formal Written Education Plan" for this year, and then I would work backwards and write up what you have done for as far back as you can remember. When I did ours, I googled that phrase, and also IEP's, and came up with a listing of things to include. The format I used (and I forget now, since it's been so long, the sites I looked at to decide this), included these items:

 

Diagnosis: 
Description: 
Grade: 
Working towards: High School Diploma, college-bound
Areas of Strength:
Areas of Need:
Subjects to which the Educational Plan applies:
Instructional Accommodations:
Environmental Accommodations
Assessment Accommodations:
Objectives and Goals: 
 
I wrote up plans for years prior to our diagnosis as well, for anything that I could remember having done as a consistent accommodation or form of remediation. If I recall correctly, ACT only required our current and previous year's plans, plus a cover letter in which I stated how long we had done accommodations and that I had those on file if needed. 
 
Now, in our case, we had done the testing 2 years prior to trying to do the ACT, and I don't know if that made a difference. I was able to state in my cover letter that our plan was in place for that school year, and for the prior two years, and that the plan was based on specific recommendations from the testing center. They want you to specifically state what accommodations you are using for assessments, and I included that in both the written plan and in my cover letter. I included a start-date for accommodations (as far back as I felt I could accurately document formal accommodations--I think I went back to 4th grade because we really didn't "test" school subjects before then other than math), and I also included a short statement about the difficulties before that date. 

 

 

Has he taken a practice ACT just to benchmark where he's at? You may be (pleasantly) surprised - he sounds like a fantastic kid! Would he be willing to spend an hour and 45 minutes practicing the English and Reading portions?

 

I agree--the prep books are not that expensive, and usually have 3-4 practice tests in them. Let him do one untimed to get a feel for it (have him write down how much time he takes), and if he scores well, let him try one timed and just see how he does. He may surprise you! But either way, you'll want to start prep sooner rather than later. 

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As others have suggested, your public school system should be able to do some testing.  My dd was able to get all of her hearing evaluations and resulting speech therapies through the public school.  

 

Another thought is that most schools do not require ACT/SAT scores for transfer students.  What schools define as transfer students varies greatly, but for some, it's simply taking a couple classes somewhere else.  With others, it's simply taking off a semester and doing almost anything at all -- working or traveling, for example.  So I suppose another option would be to find out what the school defines as a transfer student, and if ACT/SAT scores are required if you're a transfer student.  I would guess they are not.  

 

In that case, perhaps he could take a few classes at a community college, or do an internship for example, before applying to the other school.

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I would also have him try both the ACT and SAT, BYU accepts scores from either so he could choose whichever one works best for him. They will also take into account his public school transcript from 9th grade, so those A's should be helpful. Any other accredited high school or college courses will also be taken into account.

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I have known kids who were denied admission to BYU, but then offered a spot after someone from the dance or music department made a call. So it's happened in the past.

 

I also know someone who transferred in as an instrumental music major. However, she was transferring down from a music conservatory rather than trying to transfer up from a community college. I'm sure that makes a difference (as well as being indicative of her level of talent). 

 

I will just add that BYU has a reputation for favoring local kids for their fine arts programs. They like familiar faces. So I second the recommendation for your son to make contact with the music department in some way. BYU hosts a Musicians SummerFestival in June each year that includes programs for both piano and oboe. If you can swing it, it would be a wonderful way for him to meet some of the faculty and put his face out there.

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Definitely take a practice test now, with pencil and paper just like the real thing. There are a few you can print off here: 

http://blog.prepscholar.com/complete-official-act-practice-tests-free-links

 

I agree with OhElizabeth: he needs to work on a list of schools with a variety of scores and stats. He should do this after taking the practice ACT, so he has a rough idea of where he might fall. His score will likely improve as you go along, but it gives you a starting point. 

 

You want to look at the ACT range of the school in addition to the average, it is probably more important. Some schools have a wide range, such as 21-28, which would mean that 25% of the students scored below 21, 25% scored above 28, and 50% scored in between.  

 

BYU has a 26-31 range: 25% score 25 or below, 25% score 32 or higher, and 50% score in between 26-31. Admit rate is 49%, so he definitely needs safety schools even if he scores quite well. Then the music major is auditioned for separately. 

 

If you look at their common data set, you get more information on their score range: 41.08% score 31-36, 51.71% score 24-29, 7% score 18-23, and .21% score 17 or below. Common data sets can be found by googling "School Name common data set." 

 

I say this not to be discouraging, but because I think there are many great schools out there, and students are more likely to be excited about them if they have them on their list early, rather than looking at them as a last resort. Even if he gets into his dream school, it may not work out money-wise, and a true safety school is both one you can get into AND one you can pay for. 

 

The most important thing to do right now is get that practice ACT done. 

 

 

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This is such good information. Thank you to so many who have typed out long answers that I've been able to learn so much from.

 

Couple things: I'm not worried at all about his school choices as his #2 choice is pretty much guaranteed and they have all but offered him an oboe scholarship as well. This is BYU idaho and that's where he will go if he doesn't get in to Provo. It's really only between those two and possibly our local U but only if he doesn't get a scholarship elsewhere. The byu schools are very affordable and so finances aren't really a concern but we spent a lot of money on his oboe and told him it was his college :)

 

The thought of having to document his learning challenges just really overwhelms me. I don't know that I can do that. I haven't kept good records and we don't school in a really formal, testing type way. I did use OG for years and scribed for him and did oral narration and assisted a lot with spelling when writing. But I couldn't tell when he was behind or on grade level or what not.

 

I am also really overwhelmed with the ACT prep stuff but I've decided I just need to know so we are going to use that link and start tomorrow. Should I have him do the first un timed? Or where he can take as much time as he wants but we write down the time just to see? Also, is it accurate to take different sections on different days or do we need to do it all at once?

 

I'm thinking doing a section a day and just seeing how long it takes him unless someone tells me to start with a full timed test to get a better idea of where he is.

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I think when I had my dd do it the first time I gave her an old test prep book with old tests and she just picked one and did it, all in one day. I *think* I told her to follow the time and switch ink colors when she hit time. That way she could see how much farther she would have gotten with more time and whether it was time or knowledge holding her back. I don't think I was picky about replicating testing scenarios at that point. Like if she wanted to do a section, break, etc., I didn't care. But we did it all in one day, because at some point you actually have to get realistic, even if it's ugly.

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 Should I have him do the first un timed? Or where he can take as much time as he wants but we write down the time just to see? Also, is it accurate to take different sections on different days or do we need to do it all at once?

 

I'm thinking doing a section a day and just seeing how long it takes him unless someone tells me to start with a full timed test to get a better idea of where he is.

 

I personally like to do the first practice test just as it would be for the real test, so that I have an accurate base number to work with. The crunch for time and the length of the test are exactly what impacts scores, so splitting up the test or going untimed can really give you a skewed number. 

 

After the first practice test, yes, it can be very helpful to do sections untimed - that lets you see where they need to improve speed, and where they actually do not know the material. And it's fine to do one section at a time and then review answers (make sure you get a book that tells you why answers are correct, as opposed to just giving the answer). But when you feel like he has made some progress and done steady prep, say 6 to 8 weeks, take another properly timed practice test. 

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See, I think the first one being untimed is better. You see what they actually know and how much better they could do with more time vs under time and test pressure.

 

Drill, Drill, Drill to improve time. But you'll know how much you'll need to improve to get within time.

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Will BYU accept the SAT?  The new version is much more like the ACT now and the timing is much more generous than the ACT.  While my dyslexic son did better with the ACT because it was more straightforward than the old SAT, I think he would have done well with the new SAT.

 

When you have your son do the first practice test, I'd set the timer for the normal amount of time.  If he is still working, I'd make note of where he got to and then have him keep working until he has worked for another 50% of the time (so if the test was supposed to take an hour, he would get an additional 30 minutes).  Then if he still isn't done, make note of where he got to and have him finish the test.  While it is preferable to work through all of the subtests in one shot (because this mimics testing day), it is not completely necessary.

 

My son has dyslexia and when he was practicing for the ACT he was unable to finish the reading section even with a 150% time accommodation, and he was getting lots of answers wrong (many more than I would have expected given his ITBS/ITED scores).  I was concerned.  Then all of the sudden he was able to finish well under the time limit *and* his answers were mostly correct!  When I asked him what he did differently he told me that he didn't read the passages--he just looked at the questions and went back to the passage to find the answers.  He ended up getting a 31 on the reading (with a 150% time accommodation).

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That's a good idea on the reading - it is what I tried on the science portion a few years ago and it worked like a charm. I have been teaching from the Saxon Alg 2 book for the second year now after teaching elementary math to my kids and outsourcing anything above pre-algebra. I took the ACT math portion last night and got a 31 (on the actual test it was a 54/60). There are 60 questions; I missed 2 and skipped 4 that I didn't remember how to do. That is a big improvement over what I would have received a few years ago when I was trying to help my (senior in college now) dd study for the ACT. 

 

 

Edited by Vida Winter
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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok we had a delay getting to the practice test but he took the English section today. He only had four questions left when the time was up but I had him finish in another color. When we scored it it was an 18 timed and a 19 untimed. We didn't get back through all the questions but the ones we got to he knew the right answer for the most part when he slowed down.

 

We will keep doing a section a day this week and get an overall idea.

 

What is the best way to work on improvements for this section?

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Ok we had a delay getting to the practice test but he took the English section today. He only had four questions left when the time was up but I had him finish in another color. When we scored it it was an 18 timed and a 19 untimed. We didn't get back through all the questions but the ones we got to he knew the right answer for the most part when he slowed down.

 

We will keep doing a section a day this week and get an overall idea.

 

What is the best way to work on improvements for this section?

 

I would go through every wrong answer with your son. See if he understands why he missed what he missed. It would be important to determine whether he's missing questions because of his dyslexia or because he struggles with usage and mechanics of the English language. That will determine the best approach for improving his scores on that section.

 

ETA: I certainly empathize with wanting to avoid the cost of the evaluations, but I have learned that hemorrhaging money is par for the course at this age. Last summer I paid out of pocket for specialized speech therapy for my stuttering daughter in another state (in preparation for college). It was therapy + hotel costs + fuel, etc. I just put it all on a credit card. She is in college now along with her twin sister. Really-- to put it in perspective-- the cost of a full evaluation for dyslexia is a drop in the bucket compared to what you are going ot have to fork over for his college educaion later. I think you will find that it is a small price to pay to get those needed accomodations. My husband and I also paid for professional tutoring for ACT prep for both of my daughters for the math portion. It also cost a small fortune. We considered it an investment because they were able to raise their scores enough to qualify for scholarships. It was a risk, but it paid off for us.  Good luck. I know this is stressful, but it will work out.

 

Edited by stephensgirls
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  • 2 months later...

@Busymomma - You might also find a tutor that you like. Most tutors I know keep a handful of seats for working with kids at a reduced rate. I also have a great recommendation for a tutor who works with kids with learning disabilities. PM me and I'll give you her name and number (I'm not sure if she has any reduced-rate seats, though - but it certainly can't hurt to ask)

 

And let me echo @Stephensgirls and advocate for a test prep tutor. They can make a world of difference b/c they teach test taking tactics and strategies in addition to content knowledge. Today I had a student jump 70 points in the SAT math section - from a 640 (83%) to a 710 (94%) with just one hour of tutoring. We focused on test tactics - AFTER you solve the problem, but BEFORE you look at the answer choices, go back and quickly RE-READ the problem to make sure you know what they are asking for (She missed 3 questions because she solved for something else), draw a picture to help you visualize the problem, always choose A when you don't know the answer instead of randomly guessing, and bubble the page instead of bubbling in after every question. It's all nit-picky, test-nerdy stuff that hardly seems important (can bubbling a different way really make a difference in points? Yes!) but it all adds up to a significant score increase.

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