What do I need to know in preparation for high school math?

[Amy M]

My oldest child will start fifth grade in mid-January. He turns 10 in April. He is advanced in math, and I have tried to hold him back for years, as I had this idea that it was bad to get too high in maths too early, because then you'd still have to do super-hard math for years in high school. Is this true?

 

For example, he will probably start Algebra 1 about mid-6th grade at the slowed rate I'm doing with him. When can I start recording his math for his high school transcript? If he takes Algebra 1 in 7th grade, does that count? Or does he still have to take 3-4 years of upper level maths in 9-12th grades? This would inform my planning now. For example, do I want to keep slowing him down so he's not taking super-hard maths in high school, or can I count the math he learns from 7th-10th grades as his high school credits, and then he can be done with math after 10th grade if he wants (because he already completed 4 years of high school level math)? Does this make sense?

[regentrude]

My oldest child will start fifth grade in mid-January. He turns 10 in April. He is advanced in math, and I have tried to hold him back for years, as I had this idea that it was bad to get too high in maths too early, because then you'd still have to do super-hard math for years in high school. Is this true?

 

For example, he will probably start Algebra 1 about mid-6th grade at the slowed rate I'm doing with him. When can I start recording his math for his high school transcript? If he takes Algebra 1 in 7th grade, does that count? Or does he still have to take 3-4 years of upper level maths in 9-12th grades? This would inform my planning now. For example, do I want to keep slowing him down so he's not taking super-hard maths in high school, or can I count the math he learns from 7th-10th grades as his high school credits, and then he can be done with math after 10th grade if he wants (because he already completed 4 years of high school level math)? Does this make sense?

 

I don't know what you call "super hard maths". 

 

Algebra 1 counts for the high school transcript even if taken before 9th grade.

For a strong, advanced math student, it is beneficial to choose a rigorous math program that goes deep and broad instead of rushing through an easy program.

You should plan on having your student take math every year; colleges don't look kindly on students who get done with the bare minimum and then rest on their laurels.

There is nothing "super hard" about upper level highschool math; I would expect a student who is ready for algebra in 6th grade to have no problems when he encounters precalculus and calculus (which are not intrinsically harder than algebra).

There is plenty of math to cover; accelerated students can use this to study fields of  math that are not part of the typical canon. You might want to look into Art of Problem Solving which offers two semester texts on Number Theory and Counting and Probability that many of us use to stretch the math progression for students who take algebra very early.

[coralloyd]

I would count any high school level math as high school credit. He might as well be done early with it and have extra time to pursue interests in high school. It would never occur to me to hold a child back. That is one of the perks of homeschooling, each child can go at their own pace.

[Farrar]

I would count any high school level math as high school credit. He might as well be done early with it and have extra time to pursue interests in high school. It would never occur to me to hold a child back. That is one of the perks of homeschooling, each child can go at their own pace.

 

That seems to run counter to most of the advice I've been seeing. Both of my boys will probably have finished Algebra 1 by the end of 8th grade, but the advice I've seen is that you note it on the high school transcript that it was previously completed. I could totally be wrong though. I'd love to hear what others think about that actually.

 

In the case of the OP's ds though, I assume that a math advanced kid who has that as an interest will want to (and need to for future studies) continue math throughout high school so "getting the basics out of the way" so to speak wouldn't really help her avoid having to teach calculus (or outsourcing it somehow).

Edited December 29, 2016 by Farrar

[regentrude]

That seems to run counter to most of the advice I've been seeing. Both of my boys will probably have finished Algebra 1 by the end of 8th grade, but the advice I've seen is that you note it on the high school transcript that it was previously completed. I could totally be wrong though. I'd love to hear what others think about that actually.

 

It really depends on the college. Some colleges specifically ask for the credits completed in the last four years of high school. Others don't.

I listed algebra 1 with a note "taken before 9th grade" just so it is listed for completeness if somebody needs to check a box. I did not count it towards the number of credits because my kids have plenty of credits anyway. Other people do things differently.

[regentrude]

I would count any high school level math as high school credit. He might as well be done early with it and have extra time to pursue interests in high school. 

 

I would caution against skipping math for the last years of high school even if the student has completed the minimum - unless the student has no interest in attending college.

Taking a year or two off math will make college math very difficult.

Selective colleges will want a student to challenge himself, not to finish the bare minimum early.

Some schools specifically want to see math every year for 9th through 12th grade.

[Amy M]

I don't know what you call "super hard maths". 

 

Algebra 1 counts for the high school transcript even if taken before 9th grade.

For a strong, advanced math student, it is beneficial to choose a rigorous math program that goes deep and broad instead of rushing through an easy program.

You should plan on having your student take math every year; colleges don't look kindly on students who get done with the bare minimum and then rest on their laurels.

There is nothing "super hard" about upper level highschool math; I would expect a student who is ready for algebra in 6th grade to have no problems when he encounters precalculus and calculus (which are not intrinsically harder than algebra).

There is plenty of math to cover; accelerated students can use this to study fields of  math that are not part of the typical canon. You might want to look into Art of Problem Solving which offers two semester texts on Number Theory and Counting and Probability that many of us use to stretch the math progression for students who take algebra very early.

 

So if he takes Algebra 1 in 7th grade, I can list that on the high school transcript; however, some colleges still require four further years of higher maths? It seems the playing field has changed a lot from when I was in high school. I took Algebra 2 in 11th grade, and then stopped, but Algebra 2 wasn't required. Now it seems like my son could be taking Algebra 2 in 8th grade and then still required to take four more years of math. That's what I call "super hard math." Whatever that fourth year is after Algebra 2. :crying: I don't know. It all sounds hard to me, because honestly I don't remember a thing after Algebra 1. I will definitely be outsourcing these higher maths, and if there's a problem, we're in Africa. I need to find something that can give him online tutorial or phone call help if he needs once he gets beyond me. Most likely, I won't have time to keep up with him either. I'll have four younger children to homeschool, when he'll be in that rhetoric stage (and absolutely no interest in educating myself in trigonometry). Oh my, I'm nervous just thinking about it!

 

Art of Problem Solving: I tried Beast Academy with him almost two years ago, level 3A. We loved the comic book, but the problem book, he frequently made mistakes on or couldn't figure out (he'd be confused on maybe 1 out of 5?) Honestly? I couldn't even figure some of them out without looking at the solutions. I thought those were, at times, ridiculously hard for a third grader. We've been using MUS. It works well for us. Knowing that many here pooh-pooh it for not being strenuous enough, I reviewed with SM. I could barely slow him down. He'd finish SM, two levels, in a month when we were reviewing MUS. This last year, I managed to slow him down about 6 weeks by making him review with LOF Fractions, and plan to do the same next year--to review MUS Zeta with LOF Decimals and Percents. I have SM up through level 4B as well. I had thought about going through MUS pre-Algebra and then switching to Foersters for high school, as I know a tutor for it who will help him online. But he doesn't want to leave MUS. He really likes it. So then I thought about doing two math programs. MUS as our first run-through, kind of an intro to the topic, then Foersters. But I'd also considered AOPS pre-Algebra online course as our second run-through. Maybe his logic would be better at that point than when we tried BA. When would he take the Number Theory/Counting/etc. texts in the progression?

 

 

 

 

In the case of the OP's ds though, I assume that a math advanced kid who has that as an interest will want to (and need to for future studies) continue math throughout high school so "getting the basics out of the way" so to speak wouldn't really help her avoid having to teach calculus (or outsourcing it somehow).

 

That's what I was worried about. :laugh: I asked him tonight, and he jumped in the air, and said, "I want to keep going!" He loves math.

 

I would caution against skipping math for the last years of high school even if the student has completed the minimum - unless the student has no interest in attending college.

Taking a year or two off math will make college math very difficult.

Selective colleges will want a student to challenge himself, not to finish the bare minimum early.

Some schools specifically want to see math every year for 9th through 12th grade.

 

This is an unusual child. He already knows he wants to be a missionary to Mozambique and has talked about not going to college, so that gives me these two clues at this point:

 

1. We're probably not going to be trying to get him into Ivy League schools. We may even do distance learning a bit in college to save money and allow him to start taking mission trips, etc.

 

2. I wouldn't be surprised if in high school he decides to cut out things that he deems "unnecessary" to his ultimate goals. I have encouraged him with the idea, though, of getting a bachelor's degree, say, in teaching math, and then going to seminary. But I'm wondering how elite these schools are that are requiring math every year for 9-12th grade!

[luuknam]

Do you realize that Life of Fred has 3 pre-algebra books after Decimals & Percents, before getting into algebra 1? The good news (for you) is that I've heard people say that kids often slow down in Fractions and beyond.

 

Anyway, yes, you should count on him doing 4 years of math in high school. What a 9yo thinks about future career plans is pretty meaningless. One of the years of math in highschool could be statistics (something I think every kid should take anyway). But geometry and trigonometry/precalculus are very standard and not "hard maths", and expected by not very elite colleges (like, by non-flagship state universities), especially depending on his intended major (I started out as an electrical engineering major at the University of Texas at Dallas, and they certainly expected at least precalc). I would definitely plan on him taking geometry and trig in high school, and possibly calculus.

 

I can't comment on AOPS since my oldest is a 9yo in LOF Fractions as well - I plan on doing AOPS Pre-Algebra after LOF Pre-Algebra 0 with Physics (or something along those lines), but that's for the future. It's okay for kids to struggle with math though - AOPS is the art of problem solving, which means thinking, and thinking some more.

 

ETA: I'm pretty sure I've read in some other threads that some missionary places require a bachelor's degree to become a missionary. I don't know anything about missionaries, but you might want to look into all that.

Edited December 29, 2016 by luuknam

[deerforest]

Typical math sequence would be something like: Alg 1, Geometry, Alg 2, Trig/pre-calc, Calculus. But, lots of other math would be available--AoPS has many different choices if you wanted to get some ideas--number theory, statistics, etc.

 

I would give a child who is racing through MUS a much more challenging math program or at the very least supplement heavily with more complex problem solving. My friend's son did very well with MUS alg 1 and 2 and another outside course in geometry. He's a gifted kid who had never been challenged at all and started AoPS pre-calc at their brick/mortar school near us. He has faced significant challenges with this course because he didn't have a strong enough foundation. This is a PG kid who hadn't ever really been challenged before. My friend regrets MUS in hindsight. 

 

My daughter is in 7th now, and she's a gifted kid, but math is not where she shines the brightest. She's bright in math, thrived in BA, disliked pre-algebra with AoPS, and loves Foerster's. We're doing algebra I now, but her word problem skills need significant work so we have slowed to dig deep and circle around that for a while. I would rather take 2 years for algebra (and finish at the end of 8th) and make sure she's rock solid on concepts before continuing.

[Amy M]

Do you realize that Life of Fred has 3 pre-algebra books after Decimals & Percents, before getting into algebra 1? The good news (for you) is that I've heard people say that kids often slow down in Fractions and beyond.

 

Yep, I did realize that. But I would have to spend about $60 to get through the three pre-algebra books, which was disappointing to me that they didn't just print one book, rather than mixing it with physics, etc. DS really enjoys LOF, but we are tight on money, so I thought that was a steep price for a supplement. (I use it for a review/challenge after completing the MUS topic. MUS is our main curriculum.) He flew through LOF fractions, but he had just completed MUS Epsilon.

 

Anyway, yes, you should count on him doing 4 years of math in high school.

I'm not trying to be contrary, but why should I count on him doing four years of math in high school? Why not 3? or even 2? Especially if he already completed 1-2 years of high school level math in junior high? Are all colleges expecting four years now, or just a few elites? It seems that lots of kids wouldn't be able to do more than 2-3 years of math. Not everyone is going to be STEM-oriented.

 

What a 9yo thinks about future career plans is pretty meaningless.

 

I understand what you're saying, and I would normally agree with you, but I actually see this child becoming a missionary like he says. Yes, it might change. But neither do I think it's meaningless at this point.

 

One of the years of math in highschool could be statistics (something I think every kid should take anyway). But geometry and trigonometry/precalculus are very standard and not "hard maths", and expected by not very elite colleges (like, by non-flagship state universities), especially depending on his intended major (I started out as an electrical engineering major at the University of Texas at Dallas, and they certainly expected at least precalc). I would definitely plan on him taking geometry and trig in high school, and possibly calculus.

I do definitely plan on geometry, of course.

 

 

ETA: I'm pretty sure I've read in some other threads that some missionary places require a bachelor's degree to become a missionary. I don't know anything about missionaries, but you might want to look into all that.

 

We are definitely planning on him pursuing a bachelor's degree. We are missionaries ourselves. But I might think outside the box a bit as to how that degree gets accomplished, is all I'm saying. We're probably not going to be looking into Ivy League schools.

 

[regentrude]

One of my primary goals for my children is to keep doors open. I personally would not let a 9 y/o child's idea about his future dictate my schooling decisions, and I would feel an even more heightened responsibility if the student is gifted. I would want to give him all the education he is capable of, not just the education that seems necessary for his childhood dream.

 

I did not know that I wanted to be a physicist until I was 17. My childhood dream was to be an opera singer.

 

ETA: Also, I don't see why you are  bent on borrowing trouble. Just keep doing math and see how things go.

Edited December 29, 2016 by regentrude

[MEmama]

honestly, lots of kids are ready for algebra well before high school; my son started algebra in 6th grade. Because he was young and had some math maturity things to work through (not comprehension), we took 2 years and now he's completing geometry in 8th. So he'll start public high school with Algebra 2 next year. He loves math and is excited about what you call "super hard" math classes. Your son might end up the same.

 

The beauty of homeschooling is that your child gets to progress on his/her own timeline. You aren't bound by someone else's expectations or standards. If he does end up in public high school, deal with his placement then. But please don't hold him back because of preconceived future problems. I know it might seem scary to deviate from the norm now, but you will likely find it won't be an issue on down the line.

[MEmama]

Adding: around here, it is definitely the expectation of all universities that a student has completed 4 years of math in high school, not just four years of high school level math. No one cares what a student took in middle school. Their high school classes will reflect their strengths.

 

But again, he's 9. There really is no reason to worry about that at this point.

[Schadenfreude]

Most colleges (except community college) requires at least three years of math from 9-12 grade. Our public school system requires calculus to graduate at all. MUS gives a superficial overview of the math being taught. I have know many slower to learn students who have booked through MUS with great grades. I have used MUS with my children when their self confidence was short but always had to go back over the same math using another program to get the necessary understanding to apply the math to life. Any child can regurgitate answers to simple problems when given all the steps but it doesn't mean they have the understanding to truly use it which is the whole purpose of teaching math.

[Amy M]

One of my primary goals for my children is to keep doors open. I personally would not let a 9 y/o child's idea about his future dictate my schooling decisions, and I would feel an even more heightened responsibility if the student is gifted. I would want to give him all the education he is capable of, not just the education that seems necessary for his childhood dream.

 

I did not know that I wanted to be a physicist until I was 17. My childhood dream was to be an opera singer.

 

ETA: Also, I don't see why you are  bent on borrowing trouble. Just keep doing math and see how things go.

 

Oh my goodness, I would never let my 9yo dictate my schooling decisions, of course not. That would be a pretty ridiculous overreaction, for sure. And I don't appreciate your condescension to say I'm "bent on borrowing trouble." Many people on these boards have asked how transcripts work, etc. I recall people on these boards mention not wanting their children to get into too high a level of math for this very reason. Now you're being demeaning of my question. I simply wanted to know what the common expectations are for high school now and what I can "claim" on a high school transcript. I think I'm actually being wise to learn what the expectations are and try to plan for the future with some knowledge, and what's a forum for, if not to get advice from the vets. I wish someone would give me a straight answer if this is really true--because it's hard for me to wrap my head around--that high schoolers now all need four years of high school math, regardless of how many levels of "high school math" they've done before. And whether or not you can "claim" the high school level math on their high school credits, if done before high school.

 

[Amy M]

Adding: around here, it is definitely the expectation of all universities that a student has completed 4 years of math in high school, not just four years of high school level math. No one cares what a student took in middle school. Their high school classes will reflect their strengths.

 

But again, he's 9. There really is no reason to worry about that at this point.

 

Wow, good to know. Does this vary by state then, do you think?

[Amy M]

Most colleges (except community college) requires at least three years of math from 9-12 grade. Our public school system requires calculus to graduate at all. MUS gives a superficial overview of the math being taught. I have know many slower to learn students who have booked through MUS with great grades. I have used MUS with my children when their self confidence was short but always had to go back over the same math using another program to get the necessary understanding to apply the math to life. Any child can regurgitate answers to simple problems when given all the steps but it doesn't mean they have the understanding to truly use it which is the whole purpose of teaching math.

 

Helpful, thank you. I have been going through other programs after MUS. Thus far, MUS has always done a great job of prep, and he has flown through the review program. Maybe for high school, MUS isn't enough, however. That's why I'm thinking of changing to Foerster's as my main program. But MUS might still be good for an intro. (And they do give the best discount I've seen of any homeschooling curriculum I've ever seen to missionaries! 50%)  :hurray: 

 

[MEmama]

Oh my goodness, I would never let my 9yo dictate my schooling decisions, of course not. That would be a pretty ridiculous overreaction, for sure. And I don't appreciate your condescension to say I'm "bent on borrowing trouble." Many people on these boards have asked how transcripts work, etc. I recall people on these boards mention not wanting their children to get into too high a level of math for this very reason. Now you're being demeaning of my question. I simply wanted to know what the common expectations are for high school now and what I can "claim" on a high school transcript. I think I'm actually being wise to learn what the expectations are and try to plan for the future with some knowledge, and what's a forum for, if not to get advice from the vets. I wish someone would give me a straight answer if this is really true--because it's hard for me to wrap my head around--that high schoolers now all need four years of high school math, regardless of how many levels of "high school math" they've done before. And whether or not you can "claim" the high school level math on their high school credits, if done before high school.

 

The straight answer in our area is that you must take 4 years of math in high school to graduate high school and to go to university/college. You might contact your local high school for graduation requirements where you live, and look at the websites of local universities to see what they require of incoming freshmen. Remember that they will list the minimum, but if most applicants have completed calculus in high school and yours stopped at algebra 2 in the ninth grade...

 

My impression is that you have a kid who loves math and is clearly accelerated. You sound intimidated and admit to trying to hold him back. I get it--my kid is that way too, and math was always my weakest subject. However...and I mean this very, very gently...his education is about him. Allow him to be challenged in areas where he craves a challenge. You might consider switching to a more rigorous program--AOPS is good for some strong math students. Mine loves Jacobs.

 

I'm not dismissing your concerns when I say don't worry about it now. That's just BTDT advice. Nine is so young. Don't worry about what "level" he's doing, or what he thinks he wants to be when he grows up. He has another nine years before heading off to college--and that's nine more years of exploring and being challenged and changing direction and dreaming.

 

FWIW even our small town middle school offers geometry in 8th grade. Your son sounds like he's on a good path, but not so totally out of the norm, you know? Have fun with it. :)

[fourisenough]

In my state, all students must take four years of math during high school. Algebra 1, geometry, and algebra 2 are required to graduate. The fourth year can be consumer math, statistics, business math, or, if the student is academically motivated/capable, pre-calculus, AP calculus AB/BC, or AP Stats.

 

I would allow him to complete MUS through pre-algebra, then switch to something more rigorous. I know some people use MUS Algebra 1 & Geometry as pre-algebra/pre-geometry then switch to Foersters, so that would be another option.

[Amy M]

The straight answer in our area is that you must take 4 years of math in high school to graduate high school and to go to university/college. You might contact your local high school for graduation requirements where you live, and look at the websites of local universities to see what they require of incoming freshmen. Remember that they will list the minimum, but if most applicants have completed calculus in high school and yours stopped at algebra 2 in the ninth grade...

 

My impression is that you have a kid who loves math and is clearly accelerated. You sound intimidated and admit to trying to hold him back. I get it--my kid is that way too, and math was always my weakest subject. However...and I mean this very, very gently...his education is about him. Allow him to be challenged in areas where he craves a challenge. You might consider switching to a more rigorous program--AOPS is good for some strong math students. Mine loves Jacobs.

 

I'm not dismissing your concerns when I say don't worry about it now. That's just BTDT advice. Nine is so young. Don't worry about what "level" he's doing, or what he thinks he wants to be when he grows up. He has another nine years before heading off to college--and that's nine more years of exploring and being challenged and changing direction and dreaming.

 

FWIW even our small town middle school offers geometry in 8th grade. Your son sounds like he's on a good path, but not so totally out of the norm, you know? Have fun with it. :)

 

Thank you for your advice! I'm really not that worried about this! Just trying to know how it all works, you know? But I definitely won't be able to help him personally on all that upper level math, that I do know. I agree, I don't think he's terribly advanced. He does seem to get a lot of math intuitively without needing a lot of explanation. But honestly, I'm not sure if he could even handle AOPS (considering the BA challenges made no sense to him), so yeah, I agree with you that he's not totally out of the norm--in which case, when he slows down, which I've heard some children do...I wondered if he'd be able to handle four years of harder maths later. Anyway, I must be giving everyone the impression I'm super concerned about this, but I think I'm just trying to know whether I need to be going "deeper" now rather than speeding ahead, or whether I need to start keeping records in a year from now! Thanks for your advice. :)

 

[luuknam]

I think what a lot of us are saying is that even if some colleges don't *require* 4 years of math in high school, it's not a good idea to plan on only 2-3 years of math in high school, especially for a kid who likes math and is good at it. 2-3 years of math in high school will make the kid less likely to be admitted, and less likely to get a scholarship than 4 years of math. I mentioned I went to the University of Texas at Dallas. It's not an Ivy, it's not even a state flagship, but for engineering, math, or science majors, precalc would've been considered to be a remedial class.

 

To be honest, I'd be more inclined to grade skip a kid than to let a kid do less than 4 years of math while in high school (and I'd want the kid to at least finish precalc in high school). Now, if the kid was really bad at math and hated it, I *might* have a different opinion (I wouldn't necessarily require precalc), though I probably would *still* do 4 years of math, but with consumer math and statistics and stuff like that.

[regentrude]

And I don't appreciate your condescension to say I'm "bent on borrowing trouble." 

 

That was not meant condescending at all - I am sorry if you felt like it was. I merely mean that with a 9 y/o, it is WAYYYY to early to worry about what math he will take in high school (let alone consider slowing him down proactively). There is no reason to worry about high school math at this point - just see how things go and how he progresses. He may slow down naturally - or he may continue to progress quickly. There is so much uncertainty and a tremendous growth over the next nine years that it is impossible to predict his math trajectory. that is what I mean by "borrowing trouble". Keep working on math, at the pace that is appropriate for him. 

 

I wish someone would give me a straight answer if this is really true--because it's hard for me to wrap my head around--that high schoolers now all need four years of high school math, regardless of how many levels of "high school math" they've done before. And whether or not you can "claim" the high school level math on their high school credits, if done before high school.

 

The answer, like for all similar questions, is: it all depends on the college.

Edited December 29, 2016 by regentrude

[Garga]

Regentrude wasn't being condescending, in my opinion. She was forthright in answering the question.

 

My son is in 9th grade. I highly doubt he'll be applying to elite colleges, but there is no way I'm going to hold him back on purpose in any subject he loves.

 

I, along with many other parents of high schoolers, expect their kids to take all 4 years of math, 4 years of science, 4 years of history/social sciences. The only thing I'll drop is that he'll do only 3 years of languages. When my son applies to college, he'll be well prepared to jump right in. I think it's a pretty normal goal for many parents, unless their child chooses some sort of alternate route in high school or isn't capable of the work. But for a 9 year old, I'd take the reigns and plan on keeping him going as far as possible for as long as possible.

 

If your son loves math, then let him fly with it. You never know what might stump him in the future and he might slow down. And even though he's got missionary plans, plans change. Lots of people graduate from high school with a plan and it changes. Lots of people make it to their Junior year of college and the plan changes. You need to set him up to be able to go in any direction he might like in the future--a direction that might be different from the one he is planning on right now.

 

Let him move forward in math. No rushing and no holding back. Slow and steady progress all the way through 12th.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Garga

[luuknam]

I agree with you that he's not totally out of the norm--in which case, when he slows down, which I've heard some children do...I wondered if he'd be able to handle four years of harder maths later.

 

I've seen plenty of not-very-mathy people get passing grades in calculus, so I wouldn't worry about this. As long as he puts in the time and effort, it's not some insanely complicated thing you have to be brilliant to understand.

[Amy M]

That was not meant condescending at all - I am sorry if you felt like it was. I merely mean that with a 9 y/o, it is WAYYYY to early to worry about what math he will take in high school (let alone consider slowing him down proactively). There is no reason to worry about high school math at this point - just see how things go and how he progresses. He may slow down naturally - or he may continue to progress quickly. There is so much uncertainty and a tremendous growth over the next nine years that it is impossible to predict his math trajectory. that is what I mean by "borrowing trouble". Keep working on math, at the pace that is appropriate for him. 

 

 

The answer, like for all similar questions, is: it all depends on the college.

 

Really? 9 is WAYYYY too early? I've been very clear that he is on a trajectory to start high school level math (algebra 1) before he turns 11. And if I hadn't "slowed him down proactively" to this point, he may well have reached that point by now or this year. How is this way too early to start finding out how one records high school level subjects, or how that would affect high school level math requirements? You guys keep using words like "worry" or "slow down." If you don't like the words "slow down," then I'll use the words "go deeper," which you or someone up thread used. That's what I've been doing. Going deeper. Especially since MUS is frowned upon, I'd think I'd be given thumbs up for "going deeper." I'm not that worried about it, but I do want to think about how to channel this child, since I don't let him dictate his own homeschooling.

 

Thank you for answering my question. You mention "all similar questions." I suppose you mean that the same answer goes for say, science, literature, history, foreign language--whether or not the child needs to take four years in high school of that subject depends on the college? If that is so, then I feel justified in taking into account the type of college to which we expect to apply... and in what degree. And I am enlightened: I was under the same impression that high schoolers weren't required to take 4 years of science, etc.

 

Regentrude wasn't being condescending, in my opinion. She was forthright in answering the question.

 

No, I cannot agree that she was forthright in answering the question, until just above when she said it depends on the college. Until that point, in my opinion, some of her response was jumping to conclusions about my personal emotional state and parenting advice.

 

My son is in 9th grade. I highly doubt he'll be applying to elite colleges, but there is no way I'm going to hold him back on purpose in any subject he loves.

 

I think 9th grade is a different question than 5th. I don't plan on holding him back in high school at all. In fact, I assume at that point he'll be taking a full year to complete these courses, not speeding ahead like now.

I, along with many other parents of high schoolers, expect their kids to take all 4 years of math, 4 years of science, 4 years of history/social sciences. The only thing I'll drop is that he'll do only 3 years of languages. When my son applies to college, he'll be well prepared to jump right in. I think it's a pretty normal goal for many parents, unless their child chooses some sort of alternate route in high school or isn't capable of the work. But for a 9 year old, I'd take the reigns and plan on keeping him going as far as possible for as long as possible.

 

I definitely have the reins here. Now here, I might choose actually to have several credits of foreign language, but only 3 years of science and math, say. So I'm wondering, is that a decision that's basically up to the parents and child, based on the child's desire in high school then? You chose to do 4 years of those other things and 3 of language, fine. Why am I bad if I am considering having my child do 3 years of math, and the equivalent of 6 years of language?

 

If your son loves math, then let him fly with it. You never know what might stump him in the future and he might slow down. And even though he's got missionary plans, plans change. Lots of people graduate from high school with a plan and it changes. Lots of people make it to their Junior year of college and the plan changes. You need to set him up to be able to go in any direction he might like in the future--a direction that might be different from the one he is planning on right now.

 

Let him move forward in math. No rushing and no holding back. Slow and steady progress all the way through 12th.

 

Thanks for your tips.

[regentrude]

Really? 9 is WAYYYY too early? I've been very clear that he is on a trajectory to start high school level math (algebra 1) before he turns 11. And if I hadn't "slowed him down proactively" to this point, he may well have reached that point by now or this year. How is this way too early to start finding out how one records high school level subjects, or how that would affect high school level math requirements? You guys keep using words like "worry" or "slow down." If you don't like the words "slow down," then I'll use the words "go deeper," which you or someone up thread used. That's what I've been doing. Going deeper. Especially since MUS is frowned upon, I'd think I'd be given thumbs up for "going deeper." I'm not that worried about it, but I do want to think about how to channel this child, since I don't let him dictate his own homeschooling.

 

Good that you are not worried - your OP sounded as if you were concerned because you used the term "harder math". I am sorry if I misinterpreted this as concern, which I was trying to alleviate, apparently unsuccessfully.

 

So if the student takes algebra in 6th grade, all you need to do is remember that he did algebra 1 in 6th grade and write that down on his transcript several years later. Nobody is going to ask you any details about what exactly he did for algebra 1. Very generally, I recommend keeping detailed records now and thinking about how to package it for the transcript when it is time to write the transcript - in 11th grade.

 

 You mention "all similar questions." I suppose you mean that the same answer goes for say, science, literature, history, foreign language--whether or not the child needs to take four years in high school of that subject depends on the college? If that is so, then I feel justified in taking into account the type of college to which we expect to apply... and in what degree. And I am enlightened: I was under the same impression that high schoolers weren't required to take 4 years of science, etc.

 

Yes, it all depends on the college. Some colleges require 2-3 science or social sciences credits, some "strongly suggest" (aka require) 4 credits in each of the core subjects. Some require 2 years of foreign language, some "strongly suggest" 3-4.

Ask the college. That's the mantra that goes for pretty much any question related to admissions requirements.

Edited December 29, 2016 by regentrude

[regentrude]

For some perspective: my DS started algebra with AoPS in 6th grade. We covered half the book in 6th grade, continued in 7th, took a semester off to study Counting and Probability, returned to Intro to Algebra and finished in 8th. None of this was deliberate "slowing down" on my part - it simply happened naturally because of the way he matured. He is currently taking calculus in his senior year.

This was not to be predicted when he was 11. And btw, he is not STEM bound - he is going to study Athletic Training

 

DD OTOH did not start AoPS algebra until 7th grade, did the entire book in one year, skipped a grade, studied calculus in 11th and multivariable calc in 12 grade. Again, that progression happened because she was ready and working at her own pace. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by regentrude

[regentrude]

 

I definitely have the reins here. Now here, I might choose actually to have several credits of foreign language, but only 3 years of science and math, say. So I'm wondering, is that a decision that's basically up to the parents and child, based on the child's desire in high school then? You chose to do 4 years of those other things and 3 of language, fine. Why am I bad if I am considering having my child do 3 years of math, and the equivalent of 6 years of language? 

 

Nobody said anything about you being "bad". The college entrance requirements of the institutions I have seen in the US usually require fewer years of foreign languages, reflecting that foreign language instruction is of low priority in this country, but all I have seen require 4 years of English and 4 years of math.

 

From the many articles and posts I have read about the subjects (since I have been through the college admissions process with two kids), my statement "colleges don't look kindly on students who skip math in upper high school years"  is a summary of the insights I have gleaned from the reports of admissions counselors and other parents - not a comment on your parenting or schooling. Math is viewed differently than foreign languages by colleges in the US, but that is not my fault.

Edited December 29, 2016 by regentrude

[Garga]

My oldest child will start fifth grade in mid-January. He turns 10 in April. He is advanced in math, and I have tried to hold him back for years, as I had this idea that it was bad to get too high in maths too early, because then you'd still have to do super-hard math for years in high school. Is this true?

 

For example, he will probably start Algebra 1 about mid-6th grade at the slowed rate I'm doing with him. When can I start recording his math for his high school transcript? If he takes Algebra 1 in 7th grade, does that count? Or does he still have to take 3-4 years of upper level maths in 9-12th grades? This would inform my planning now. For example, do I want to keep slowing him down so he's not taking super-hard maths in high school, or can I count the math he learns from 7th-10th grades as his high school credits, and then he can be done with math after 10th grade if he wants (because he already completed 4 years of high school level math)? Does this make sense?

You might be interested in this thread that's going on right now:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/633333-please-explain-american-math/

[Lori D.]

So if he takes Algebra 1 in 7th grade, I can list that on the high school transcript...

 

Yes. Just be aware that you may need to list it in a section of the student's transcript entitled something like: "High School Courses Completed Prior to 9th Grade".

 

A lot can change in the next 7 years before your DS graduates, so you *may* be able to include both credit and grade for the pre-9th grade courses -- or neither grade OR credit (but still list high school level maths successfully completed prior to 9th grade so colleges can see there was no skipping of material). Or, you may be able to include credit, but no grade, if colleges don't want to see grades from pre-high school courses included in the overall high school GPA. That is the most frequently used option by homeschoolers currently.

 

 

...however, some colleges still require four further years of higher maths? It seems the playing field has changed a lot from when I was in high school...

 

...Now it seems like my son could be taking Algebra 2 in 8th grade and then still required to take four more years of math...

 

Yes they do, and yes it has changed a lot. :)

 

That's always a tough question as to how to proceed. I tend to suggest taking a year to explore with other math resources, rather than continue into Algebra 1 in 6th grade. My reasons for suggesting that: because it can cause difficulties in getting continuing/higher Math credits during the high school years, and because many students fly through the early foundational maths but "hit the wall" with Algebra due to the abstract thinking it requires (the *average* student doesn't tend to start developing the abstract thinking portions of the brain until about age 12-14).

 

One last weaker reason for delaying the start of the higher Maths is that the SAT or ACT test (required standardized tests used by colleges for admissions and scholarships) mostly focuses on math up through Algebra 2; if the student completes Algebra 2 in 8th or 9th grade, and doesn't see that math again until 11th grade when taking the SAT or ACT, the student can be pretty "rusty". So taking higher maths very early on just means needing to schedule time in the 10th/11th grade year for review and practice of those Maths to be prepared for testing.

 

 

...We've been using MUS...

...I reviewed with SM...

...I managed to slow him down about 6 weeks by making him review with LOF Fractions, and plan to do the same next year...with LOF Decimals and Percents...

...I have SM up through level 4B as well...

 

Sounds like you are already doing a fine job of working to slow things down by adding in a variety of resources. Since Singapore and LoF are working and enjoyed, then why not continue supplementing with those?

 

No personal experience with LoF, but we did use Singapore. Singapore 4A/B is where you really start getting some good word problems; 5A/B is worthwhile because it introduces some interesting topics not usually covered by other programs (tesselations, for example). And Singapore 6A/B is a very good, practical word problem practice to do before going into an Algebra program. So my suggestion would be to keep adding Singapore in for review and for seeing topics from a different angle, and for better problem solving practice. I've used both MUS, Singapore, and Saxon and of those 3, Singapore is far and away the best for word problems and developing "math thinking". MUS is pretty weak in that area, and Saxon (at least the older editions we used) seemed to be more about memorizing equations and then "plug and chug" (plug numbers into the equations and "chug" away at the calculations), rather than actual math thinking and problem solving.

 

 

... I had thought about going through MUS pre-Algebra and then switching to Foersters for high school, as I know a tutor for it who will help him online. But he doesn't want to leave MUS...

 

... So then I thought about doing two math programs. MUS as our first run-through, kind of an intro to the topic, then Foersters. But I'd also considered AOPS pre-Algebra online course as our second run-through...

 

Well, AoPS might not be the best way to go if BA didn't sit well with DS. No personal experience with it (BA came out after our DSs were far into high school), but I have heard others on these boards say that in general, AoPS works best for the student who can "sit with not knowing" or being able to figure it out instantly, as AoPS requires a lot of thought, trial and error, experimentation, and learning through discovery after a lot of work and failures. So, it's great prep if you're going into scientific research. ;)

 

Doing MUS as an intro and then doing a second program is what the WTM poster 8FillTheHeart does very successfully with her DC.

 

 

...I will definitely be outsourcing these higher maths, and if there's a problem, we're in Africa. I need to find something that can give him online tutorial or phone call help if he needs once he gets beyond me. Most likely, I won't have time to keep up with him either. I'll have four younger children to homeschool, when he'll be in that rhetoric stage (and absolutely no interest in educating myself in trigonometry)...

 

Fortunately, there are lots of options available these days, and you never know what local options of a tutor or wise person might show up in God's timing just as you need it. While it's always a great idea to research and plan ahead as best as possible, because circumstances can change so drastically and unexpectedly, it's best to plan in light pencil what homeschool program to use 3 years in advance of needing it... because very likely new options will be out by then, or your student will have slowed down or changed, or local circumstances will be different, or... ;)

 

The decision you have to make for now is for 5th and 6th grades; sounds like MUS with supplements is working well, so keep going forward with that and see how things look a year from now to start deciding about higher maths and how to accomplish them.  :)

 

 

...I asked him tonight, and he jumped in the air, and said, "I want to keep going!" He loves math...

 

Not a problem to keep going at his pace, since Math is his love. Starting Algebra 1 in 7th should put you on a good track for high school maths -- and, if your DS is ahead in other subjects as well (or pulls ahead in the next few years), he may graduate a year early, so your 8th would become your 9th grade. 

 

Example of a possible higher Maths progression:

7th = Algebra 1

8th = Geometry

9th = Algebra 2

10th = Pre-Calculus

11th = Calculus

12th = Statistics

 

 

Another option of going "sideways" with the Math in the middle school years to slightly delay moving into the higher Maths (which starts with Algebra 1) is to do something like a Consumer Math course, or Accounting or Business Math. Those include all the foundational math calculations, and focus on real-life math topics like saving, investing, compound interest, filling out tax forms, mortgages and loans, and how to "keep the books" for a business.

 

While these types of math courses are more typically done in the later high school years, I think that is because it is the older teens who are about to actually see/need/use these types of real math applications as adults. All the calculations in these types of programs are using whole numbers, fractions, and decimals, and the equations are pretty straight-forward -- all things that a student who has completed up through Pre-Algebra can handle. The focus of these programs is more about real-life finances, weighing options, and business applications of Math. Your DS might find that quite interesting, so that might be another way to slow the pace a bit...

 

 

...This is an unusual child. He already knows he wants to be a missionary to Mozambique and has talked about not going to college, so that gives me these two clues at this point:

 

1. We're probably not going to be trying to get him into Ivy League schools. We may even do distance learning a bit in college to save money and allow him to start taking mission trips, etc.

 

2. I wouldn't be surprised if in high school he decides to cut out things that he deems "unnecessary" to his ultimate goals. I have encouraged him with the idea, though, of getting a bachelor's degree, say, in teaching math, and then going to seminary. But I'm wondering how elite these schools are that are requiring math every year for 9-12th grade!

 

That is wise of you to keep doors open for his future. More and more missions organizations are requiring Bachelor degrees before they will train you, send you out, and provide you with a network for financial support.

 

And if the choice is going the "tent-making" route of living/working in a country and doing missions work as the unspoken goal for being there, countries are looking for people with degrees and skills that benefit them -- medical, engineering, computer/technical, teaching, etc. Many nations are far less likely to let you in long-term without skills or professional accreditation to offer.

 

Plus, a university can provide education in unexpected areas, it is place of networking -- and it is a missions field. :)

 

 

... I wouldn't be surprised if in high school he decides to cut out things that he deems "unnecessary" to his ultimate goals...

 

To keep doors open for the future and to prevent accidentally cutting something that really is necessary, here's a list of high school credits that most universities require for admission:

 

4 credits = English (1/2 Literature and 1/2 Composition/Writing)

3-4 credits = Math (Alg. 1, Geometry, Alg. 2, with many colleges requiring a 4th math with Alg. 2 as a prerequisite)

3-4 credits = Science, with labs (some colleges require Biology and/or Chemistry)

3-4 credits = Social Science (most U.S. colleges require 1 year American History; other credits can be in History, Geography, Philosophy, Anthropology, Sociology, etc.)

2-4 credits = Foreign Language (same language)

1 credit = Fine Arts

4-8+ credits = Electives

22-28+ credits = total

 

1 credit = 1 year high school course, spending 4-5 hours/week for 36-week school year

 

Some credits can definitely be geared towards a future goal of missions work:

English --> Literature from the nations of interest, and learning a variety of good writing skills

Science --> Biology & Physics based to connect with possible future medical & engineering skills

Social Studies --> History & Geography of nations of interest; Philosophy, Comparative World Religions, Worldview; Logic

Foreign Language --> intensively start working on languages that will assist in future missions

 

Electives can be a great place to explore personal interests and start working toward a future career goal -- computer programming or computer/technical skills; vocational skills; additional fine arts or academic courses beyond the required credits in areas of personal interest.

 

And you can definitely gear Electives to fit towards missions work -- Bible study; linguistics and acquisition of foreign languages; vehicle mechanical repairs or design; aviation piloting; emergency medical training; wilderness survival and first aid; etc.

 

My overall point is that rather than cutting credits, you can adapt required credits to better serve your student's overall future goals. :)

 

 

...But I'm wondering how elite these schools are that are requiring math every year for 9-12th grade!

 

Well, it's not typically a matter of just elite schools or competitive-admission schools. Universities of all types have policies that require credits for incoming freshmen to have been earned in the 4 years prior to entering college, because colleges want incoming freshmen to have *current* and working knowledge in subject areas. Because all university Bachelor degrees have "general education" credit requirements in college-level Math, Writing, the Natural Sciences and the Social Sciences, universities want to see students coming in with credits in those subject areas earned recently enough to transition smoothly in to doing the college-level required courses in those areas. And courses taken by middle school students 4-6 years prior to entering college, or even high school students just 2 years prior to entering college, with no further exposure, or more recent exposure, in that subject area is likely to make taking the degree required courses in those areas more difficult for the student, which ultimately reflects poorly on the university. :)

 

 

Hope something there is of help, and BEST of luck as you plan your next year or two of Math! Warmest regards, Lori D. 

Edited December 31, 2016 by Lori D.

[Lori D.]

We are definitely planning on him pursuing a bachelor's degree...But I might think outside the box a bit as to how that degree gets accomplished...

 

One out of the box option is through specific online college classes and CLEP testing, and the Bachelor's degree can be earned concurrently with the last 2 years of high school. Check out Lumerit: Unbound (previously called College Plus) as one business that helps organize this for you.

 

One drawback is your outside-the-US location, as you have take CLEP tests at an authorized test center (usually a school). Here is the CLEP test location search engine. Another option might be to work with a nearby school to develop a test center, if there would be others living in your area who would benefit from this method of earning college credits. Before going to any lengths, you would definitely want to look into how accepted CLEP credits-by-testing are -- over 2900 schools accept them, but that may be just within the US, and not internationally.

 

Just throwing ideas your way. :)

Edited January 12, 2017 by Lori D.

[Amy M]

 

That's always a tough question as to how to proceed. I tend to suggest taking a year to explore with other math resources, rather than continue into Algebra 1 in 6th grade. My reasons for suggesting that: because it can cause difficulties in getting continuing/higher Math credits during the high school years, and because many students fly through the early foundational maths but "hit the wall" with Algebra due to the abstract thinking it requires (the *average* student doesn't tend to start developing the abstract thinking portions of the brain until about age 12-14).

 

One last weaker reason for delaying the start of the higher Maths is that the SAT or ACT test (required standardized tests used by colleges for admissions and scholarships) mostly focuses on math up through Algebra 2; if the student completes Algebra 2 in 8th or 9th grade, and doesn't see that math again until 11th grade when taking the SAT or ACT, the student can be pretty "rusty". So taking higher maths very early on just means needing to schedule time in the 10th/11th grade year for review and practice of those Maths to be prepared for testing.

...

 

 

Sounds like you are already doing a fine job of working to slow things down...

 

Another option of going "sideways" with the Math in the middle school years to slightly delay moving into the higher Maths (which starts with Algebra 1) is to do something like...

 

And if the choice is going the "tent-making" route of living/working in a country and doing missions work as the unspoken goal for being there, countries are looking for people with degrees and skills that benefit them -- medical, engineering, computer/technical, teaching, etc. Many nations are far less likely to let you in long-term without skills or professional accreditation to offer.

 

Plus, a university can provide education in unexpected areas, it is place of networking -- and it is a missions field. :)

 

 

 

To keep doors open for the future and to prevent accidentally cutting something that really is necessary, here's a list of high school credits that most universities require for admission:...

 

 

Wow, your answers were very helpful, and I really appreciate your taking the time to type all of that out, as well as your kind tone in the statements above and validation of the idea of "slowing down" or "delaying" in certain situations, as well as your explanations of different ways I could do that well. The breakdown of credit expectations was helpful as well.

 

Yes, we are also thinking about the "tent-making" route, so that's another reason I have encouraged him to get a bachelor's degree in something more "useful," and then going on to seminary for direct theological training. We'll see! For now, I think I will continue to circle around with different curricula on the same topics before speeding ahead with MUS.

 

[Amy M]

One out of the box option is through specific online college classes and CLEP testing, and the Bachelor's degree can be earned concurrently with the last 2 years of high school. Check out Unbound (previously called College Plus) as one business that helps organize this for you.

 

I haven't seriously thought much about this or researched, since we're just entering the logic stage, but I have been getting emails from a company called Lumerit, and wondered... I thought some year, I'd get around to asking the forums if anyone's used them. It sounds similar to Unbound. But yes! That's what I was hinting at when I mentioned an out of the box option. World magazine has been urging readers for a while to think in other ways about university and higher education. They're concerned about the debt racked up students, and observed that trade schools might be a good idea for some kids, as well as a trend in distance learning for college.

[8filltheheart]

 

My current college jr took his first alg course when he was 10. It was MUS's alg. I do and did not see it as the equivalent as an alg 1 class. He took Foerster's alg 1 the next school yr and that was what I considered his first real high school math credit. MUS's alg course and geo courses (the only 2 I am familiar with) are more on par with pre-alg and pre-geo than a normal high school course.

 

I absolutely do include pre-9th grade credits on my kids transcripts. I have zero qualms giving them high school credit for courses that are completed at a high school level (that means both input and output match high school expectations in difficulty and pace. Pace matters.) My ds mentioned above had the following on his transcript:

<9th grade:

Alg 1, geo, alg 2, intermediate alg (AoPS)

9th: pre-cal

10th: cal BC

11th: multivariable and diffEQ

12th: linear alg

 

He loves math and is double majoring in math and physics. His 12th grade sister, otoh, really doesn't like it very much even though she is equally gifted in math. She took MUS alg/geo as pre-alg and pre-geo in 6th. Her progression looks more like this:

<9th: alg 1, geo

9th: alg 2

10th: pre-cal

11th: 1st semester calculus (she took the Clep exam in Jan), 2nd semester nothing

12th: 1st semester nothing, 2nd semester statistics

 

Fwiw, she has been accepted to every school she has applied to so far. None seem to care that she did not follow her brother's progression of increased difficulty. She will only have math credits on par with typical high school grads. It is not an area she plans on pursuing, so it obviously hasn't mattered. Her area of focus is demonstrated on her transcript in a way similar to her brother's in math.

 

By allowing your ds to progress at his natural pace now and using solid texts to build his foundation, you can keep the doors open and let his progression later on develop according to what he wants to pursue. You don't need to make those decisions now. If he changes his mind at 15 and decides he wants to pursue a science or math field, his math background will be there for him to build on. If he wants to be a missionary still, he can let the math credits sort of slow down and take more time for other subjects. (My Dd has 15 foreign language credits on her transcript. :) Math was just not calling her!)

 

Keep him building on a strong foundation and the future will be able to take care of itself.

Edited December 31, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[lisabees]

My current college jr took his first alg course when he was 10. It was MUS's alg. I do and did not see it as the equivalent as an alg 1 class. He took Foerster's alg 1 the next school yr and that was what I considered his first real high school math credit. MUS's alg course and geo courses (the only 2 I am familiar with) are more on par with pre-alg and pre-geo than a normal high school course.

 

I absolutely do include pre-9th grade credits on my kids transcripts. I have zero qualms giving them high school credit for courses that are completed at a high school level (that means both input and output match high school expectations in difficulty and pace. Pace matters.) 

 

By allowing your ds to progress at his natural pace now and using solid texts to build his foundation, you can keep the doors open and let his progression later on develop according to what he wants to pursue. You don't need to make those decisions now. If he changes his mind at 15 and decides he wants to pursue a science or math field, his math background will be there for him to build on. If he wants to be a missionary still, he can let the math credits sort of slow down and take more time for other subjects. (My Dd has 15 foreign language credits on her transcript. :) Math was just not calling her!)

 

Keep him building on a strong foundation and the future will be able to take care of itself.

 

I agree with many of the points that 8 and others make.  Many of us have BTDT and have graduated kids already.  There is no way I could have predicted the future path of any of my 9 year olds.  Teach the child you have now.  One year at a time.  Sometimes, it's one day at a time!

 

Other than being college-bound, I had no expectations of my kids.  I followed their lead.  And, yes, most colleges want to see four years of math. Thirty some years ago, when I was in high school, colleges had the same expectations.  My advice is always to prepare your kids so they have more options rather than less.  

 

If you have a kid who loves math, please note what 8 said above about MUS.  From what I understand, it can deceive a child into thinking he excels in math.  It is considered an easy program and not equivalent to standard high school level maths.  There are many opportunities for your son to explore math topics other than the traditional 4-5 high school courses. These boards are a great resource when the time comes.

 

So, why would your son take more math than "necessary"?  Or any subject for that matter?  Because learning is fun.  Because it makes him more interesting and more confident.  Because it gives him options.  

 

Re: high school level math on transcripts.  Now, I feel like a complete loser!  I did not include Algebra 1, 2, Geo, pre-calc on ds17's transcripts.  With 8 other math courses at university level (including 2 graduate level courses), I figured it was understood that he took those basic classes. I guess he could have had four more credits.  Oh well.  

 

Best wishes OP.  It is a fun ride!

[Amy M]

My oldest child will start fifth grade in mid-January. He turns 10 in April. He is advanced in math, and I have tried to hold him back for years, as I had this idea that it was bad to get too high in maths too early, because then you'd still have to do super-hard math for years in high school. Is this true?

 

For example, he will probably start Algebra 1 about mid-6th grade at the slowed rate I'm doing with him. When can I start recording his math for his high school transcript? If he takes Algebra 1 in 7th grade, does that count? Or does he still have to take 3-4 years of upper level maths in 9-12th grades? This would inform my planning now. For example, do I want to keep slowing him down so he's not taking super-hard maths in high school, or can I count the math he learns from 7th-10th grades as his high school credits, and then he can be done with math after 10th grade if he wants (because he already completed 4 years of high school level math)? Does this make sense?

 

I can't remember whether I read on this thread or somewhere else recently, someone said if you decide to graduate your child a year early, then you count the 8th grade as the 9th grade year on the transcript. In that case, my question above, though poorly worded, sounds like it could still be a potential in some cases? Say if my son graduated a year early, then even if he didn't take math in his last year, his math for grades 8-10 would have counted as 3 credits on his high school transcript, correct? 

 

By allowing your ds to progress at his natural pace now and using solid texts to build his foundation, you can keep the doors open and let his progression later on develop according to what he wants to pursue. You don't need to make those decisions now. If he changes his mind at 15 and decides he wants to pursue a science or math field, his math background will be there for him to build on. If he wants to be a missionary still, he can let the math credits sort of slow down and take more time for other subjects. (My Dd has 15 foreign language credits on her transcript. :) Math was just not calling her!)

 

Keep him building on a strong foundation and the future will be able to take care of itself.

 

 

 

So, why would your son take more math than "necessary"?  Or any subject for that matter?  Because learning is fun.  Because it makes him more interesting and more confident.  Because it gives him options.  

 

Re: high school level math on transcripts.  Now, I feel like a complete loser!  I did not include Algebra 1, 2, Geo, pre-calc on ds17's transcripts.  With 8 other math courses at university level (including 2 graduate level courses), I figured it was understood that he took those basic classes. I guess he could have had four more credits.  Oh well.  

 

Best wishes OP.  It is a fun ride!

 

Wow! Both of you, your kids sound amazing! Great job. Congratulations! I hope I can do such a good service to my children as well. Now I feel like a complete loser! I didn't even know there existed so many upper level math courses! :crying:

 

I do plan on sending my kids to college, equipping them as well as I can, and strengthening them in both their weaknesses and strengths. I agree, I don't think the ultimate goal of education is simply to get whatever he needs on a transcript in order to go to college and get a job. I want him to be a wholly educated person, inside and out, to love learning, to love God, and not to "waste his life." I thought if a person had x amount of credits in math, even if taken before high school, that perhaps they could pursue other interests with their time for maybe 11th or at least 12th grade, but I am getting a resounding NO on that! lol. Thanks, everyone. This has been helpful.

 

Lisabees, I'm assuming you never went that far in math yourself. Did your son have other tutors, or take online courses for those upper-level math courses?

[8filltheheart]

I thought if a person had x amount of credits in math, even if taken before high school, that perhaps they could pursue other interests with their time for maybe 11th or at least 12th grade, but I am getting a resounding NO on that! lol. Thanks, everyone. This has been helpful.

 

Lisabees, I'm assuming you never went that far in math yourself. Did your son have other tutors, or take online courses for those upper-level math courses?

 

I don't believe in graduating my kids early.  I am glad that is the position we have always had b/c I have watched our kids grow into adults and know that they have plenty of time to live in that world.  I would rather them be teenagers at home while they can.

 

In terms of the bolded, they can.  It is why I posted what I did.  Math has been quick, easy, and painless for my dd.  It has been her least time consuming course.  Technically she has 4 yrs of math on her transcript, but it is really only 2 yrs and then 2 semesters.  That means she has 2 semesters in high school without math.  She obviously wanted to study languages.  She studied 3 different languages (Latin, French, and Russian).  French and Russian are her 2 most time consuming classes b/c she wants them to be!  She studied Russian history, communism in the 20th century, French history in French, etc.  We designed her courses around what she was interested in.  

 

My ds who loves math had huge number of science credits all from the grades 9-12.  He took multiple sciences every yr.

 

FWIW, my math beyond alg 2 is pitiful.  I have used AoPS online, Chalkdust, DO videos (she didn't ever contact him personally. She watched the videos and used the textbook), private tutors, Thinkwell, and dual enrollment.   I could have made it work with just Chalkdust (but expensive).  DOs videos were enough of a supplement for dd.  THinkwell worked well for her, too.  (But she only used Thinkwell for calculus and I think it worked b/c she is just that strong of a math student that she doesn't need much.)  AoPS online is great for some kids.  (Ds loved AoPS.  Dd didn't like it at all.)  Foerster alg 1 and alg 2 hasn't needed any supplementing for us.  The textbooks are great. 

[lisabees]

I can't remember whether I read on this thread or somewhere else recently, someone said if you decide to graduate your child a year early, then you count the 8th grade as the 9th grade year on the transcript. In that case, my question above, though poorly worded, sounds like it could still be a potential in some cases? Say if my son graduated a year early, then even if he didn't take math in his last year, his math for grades 8-10 would have counted as 3 credits on his high school transcript, correct? 

 

Correct.   :)

 

 

Wow! Both of you, your kids sound amazing! Great job. Congratulations! I hope I can do such a good service to my children as well. Now I feel like a complete loser! I didn't even know there existed so many upper level math courses! :crying:

 

I do plan on sending my kids to college, equipping them as well as I can, and strengthening them in both their weaknesses and strengths. I agree, I don't think the ultimate goal of education is simply to get whatever he needs on a transcript in order to go to college and get a job. I want him to be a wholly educated person, inside and out, to love learning, to love God, and not to "waste his life." I thought if a person had x amount of credits in math, even if taken before high school, that perhaps they could pursue other interests with their time for maybe 11th or at least 12th grade, but I am getting a resounding NO on that! lol. Thanks, everyone. This has been helpful.

 

Ha.  You are right.  I would always recommend four math courses.  In no way does that mean that your kids won't have time to explore their passions, though! It sounds as if you are providing your kids some very unique experiences.  Oh, the places they will lead you!

 

Lisabees, I'm assuming you never went that far in math yourself. Did your son have other tutors, or take online courses for those upper-level math courses?

 

Definitely didn't go that far in math.  DS first fell in love with physics, which led to a love of math.  He went the AoPS route first, using only the textbooks.  He was then fortunate enough to be invited to take courses at a top-tier university.  He hasn't taken any online courses, other than an MIT OCW probability course.  If we didn't have the University option, he would definitely use tutors and online courses.

 

Edited December 31, 2016 by lisabees

[Lori D.]

Yes, we are also thinking about the "tent-making" route, so that's another reason I have encouraged him to get a bachelor's degree in something more "useful," and then going on to seminary for direct theological training. We'll see! 

 

Just a quick look at info about U.S. Aid to Mozambique shows the nation has an extremely high need for:

- teachers

- medical workers

- agricultural information/aid

- engineers (rebuilding of infrastructure; de-mining areas that were mined for war; flood recovery)

- help in developing small businesses (both investment for starting businesses, but also training people into skills that can create products to create a small cottage business)

 

I am thinking of the saying: "Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a man how to fish, and he eats for a lifetime." The more education, knowledge, and skills your DS has, the more help he will be able to offer to the people of Mozambique, which in turn opens up more opportunities to share the Gospel. JMO. :)

 

 

For now, I think I will continue to circle around with different curricula on the same topics before speeding ahead with MUS.

 

Supplements for Now:

MEP (Math Enrichment Programme) -- free, online

Beast Academy: 4A/B/C/D, or, 5A/B/C (level 5D not out yet)

Dragonbox

Geogbra

Upper Elementary Challenge Math (Zacarro)

Real World Math (Clemson)

Number Devil (Enzensberger)

Adventures of Penrose the Mathematical Cat (Pappas)

Fractals, Googles and Other Mathematical Tales (Pappas)

Fascinating Fibonnaccis (Seymour)

Exploring the World of Mathematics (Tiner)

Secrets of Mental Math (Benjamin)

 

ideas for after completing MUS Pre-Algebra:

Challenge Math (Zoccaro)

Jousting Armadillos; Crocodiles & Coconuts (Rollman) 

Hands On Geometry (Freeman)

Patty Paper Geometry (Serra)

TOPS units: Metric Measuring; Graphing; Probability

Life of Fred Pre-Algebra -- #0 = "with Physics", #1 = "with Biology", #2 = "with Economics"

Keys to Algebra

Edited December 31, 2016 by Lori D.

[kesmom]

As someone who liked math in school but didn't have any exposure to anything beyond my PS curriculum, I would encourage you to continue supplementing and finding ways to challenge him. My parents and teachers praised my good grades in math, but no one ever taught me how to struggle with math. I reached 2nd semester calculus in college and thought it was where my abilities ended.

[Cindyz]

My son is half way through 6th and will be starting Algebra 1 this month after finishing AOPS Pre-Algebra.  

 

My plan is:

 

middle of 6th grade - Foerster's Algebra 1 - I expect him to fly through this and probably finish before the start of 7th. 

7th grade - geometry and possibly AOPS Intro to Algebra online,

8th grade - Algebra 2/Trig,

9th grade - Precalculus,

10th grade - Calculus  

11th & 12th grade - community college math  (Running Start in WA state)

 

This is just a general outline.  I will do as I have done from the beginning and continually evaluate where we are and go with what's working for us as each progression comes before us.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Cindyz

[ritaespinal]

Building your child's confidence in maths so they believe they're good at maths before they leave primary school is a crucial part in succeeding in high school maths, Janette says.

 

"It means when they're faced with more complex maths problems they've got that resilience to fall back on because they have an identity as a mathematical thinker, an ‘I can do this' type of attitude," she says.

 

Having confidence in their ability to do maths will also mean your child will be much more motivated to learn it.

 

"So, if they do strike a mathematical concept in their first or second year of high school that's hard, they're more likely to work at it rather than throw their hands in the air in horror and give up," she says.