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#101 texasmom33

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 03:50 PM

Wow this is so very sad. I hate the IRS

 

:iagree:  :leaving:


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#102 speedmom4

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 04:19 PM

I have $6000 invested in this company in the form of generic credits right now, and my kids were just starting their very first classes this coming spring. They have not even taken ONE CLASS with Landry yet. I am beside myself right now. I have purchased their books for the upcoming classes as well. So many people spoke so highly of them. :(

 

 

Oh my goodness! So sorry! We have about 5k invested and my boys are in the middle of 5 year long classes each. I'm praying for a miracle but planning for the worst.



#103 eternalsummer

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 04:43 PM

Wow this is so very sad. I hate the IRS

 

It sucks, but to be honest classifying an employee correctly is not rocket science.  If the teacher is only teaching for Landry (which it seems like many if not most are) then they aren't contract labor.  Employees are expensive.

 

Generally you can work out a payment plan with the IRS, though.

 

But yes, with an employee you're paying half of their payroll taxes, so something like 10%, right?  times 5-6 years of doing it wrong (or however long they've had employees) is a lot of $ to owe.

 

And keep in mind, they owe the money to the IRS but it was also, I assume, problematic for the teachers themselves - they were probably paying taxes on their own behalves that they didn't really owe.  I wonder if they get refunds?


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#104 Renai

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 04:51 PM

It sucks, but to be honest classifying an employee correctly is not rocket science.  If the teacher is only teaching for Landry (which it seems like many if not most are) then they aren't contract labor.  

 

 

Not necessarily. I worked with one company for a while on a contract basis. They can teach for Landry on a contract basis, and still have the ability to work for someone else, depending on what the contract says. There is a lot more involved in determining  employee status than just if the person works for one company. If big companies can make that mistake, I can see how a much smaller company can as well. https://www.irs.gov/...yed-or-employee


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#105 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 05:11 PM

Landry has been a great school for a lot of people and Greg Landry and his wife have put in a tremendous amount of time and effort.  Sadly, I think maybe lack of solid advice and not having a really good business manager and business savvy accountant may have seriously harmed the school?   I hope that they can work something out and recover from this, for everyone's sakes.


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#106 G5052

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 05:27 PM

It sucks, but to be honest classifying an employee correctly is not rocket science.  If the teacher is only teaching for Landry (which it seems like many if not most are) then they aren't contract labor.  Employees are expensive.

 

Generally you can work out a payment plan with the IRS, though.

 

But yes, with an employee you're paying half of their payroll taxes, so something like 10%, right?  times 5-6 years of doing it wrong (or however long they've had employees) is a lot of $ to owe.

 

And keep in mind, they owe the money to the IRS but it was also, I assume, problematic for the teachers themselves - they were probably paying taxes on their own behalves that they didn't really owe.  I wonder if they get refunds?

 

About 2/3 of my work is as an independent contractor. The company just pays me outright. I'm responsible for the self-employment tax (15.4%), which covers Social Security and Medicare taxes.  I also have to make sure that enough is withheld to cover my income tax. I have to do this for both the IRS and the state. The employer is supposed to file a 1099-MISC with the IRS for anyone paid more than $600 in a year, and then that is declared as income for the individual. 

 

My heart goes out to those teachers. The IRS has really been cracking down on this, and sadly it sometimes does indeed affect the independent contractors in a bad way. If the company has to cut back to pay the penalties, they may not be able to pay the independent contractors, or they may have to let them go entirely. If the company I work for stopped paying me, I'd be out of there. I'd get a job at Sears or whatever until I could get something better.

 

They may also owe the independent contractors if they should have been employees all along, but that of course could take awhile.

 

Converting independent contractors can be very expensive, especially if they work enough to be eligible for benefits. Some companies can't afford employees.

 

I also know of several companies who filed bankruptcy when they got nailed by the IRS for independent contractor abuses. The majority of their work was done by independent contractors, and they couldn't recover. And of course the independent contractors were pretty far down the list of debts.

 

It sounds like the IRS is being mean about this, but it is also a Department of Labor issue. If you are doing the work of an employee, you should be under all of the laws that apply to employees. Some companies have abused the independent contractor status because they didn't want to pay what the workers were really owed and give them benefits because it costs too much.


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#107 lovelearnandlive

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 06:25 PM

The contractor vs. employee issue is something I have always wondered about with regards to Classical Conversations tutors also.

Sorry for all of you that are caught up in this mess. :(
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#108 LIVE Online Math

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 07:12 PM

Hi all.  I'm a little hesitant to weigh in here, given that LIVE Online Math is a competitor with Landry (for math, at least).  This thread was brought to my attention though, and I thought I could speak to the independent contractor vs. employee thing a bit. 

 

There is a very wide gray area in determining if the relationship between worker and employer is one of an independent contractor (more financially favorable to the employer) or of an employee.  While the IRS does have guidelines, each situation is unique and there are various factors to consider.  If this sounds vague and unhelpful, I agree... but that's what it is.  To complicate things further, sometimes states apply different criteria for classifying a worker.  So, theoretically, the state of ______ could view a worker as an employee, whereas the IRS could view them as an independent contractor!  One LARGE consideration in making this determination is that of control.  How much control does the employer have over the worker, how they do their work, etc.

 

I can't speak to Landry's situation and I don't know how they operate internally.  I can only speak to what I do for LIVE Online Math.  As the owner of the company, I have classified teachers as employees primarily because of the degree of control I have over their work product.  This is definitely a financial negative, but I believe it's the right call and I will continue to classify teachers in this way as I look to hire more teachers for next school year.

 

Anyway, I hope that gives a bit of insight and that everything works out for people in a tough spot right now.

 

John Bovey


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#109 Lanny

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 07:50 PM

IMO if this situation is because Landry had classified the teachers as "Independent Contractors" (pay them on a 1099) and the I.R.S. claims they are actually Employees (pay them on a W-2, pay Unemployment Insurance and Workman's Compensation Insurance, etc.) this is a tricky  place for Landry to be in. I believe, but am not positive, in the majority of the cases, where the Department of Labor (?) looks into these cases, they rule that the people are Employees (pay them on a W-2).   If this is what has caused the financial difficulties Landry apparently is in, it could be difficult for them to get out of this and survive, if they do not have "deep pockets". which I assume they do not have.

 

As far as the teachers bailing out because they have not been paid and/or they have taken substantial pay cuts, that is normal, whether one is on a 1099 or a W-2.  Bail out,  ASAP.

 

I haven't read all of the responses to this Thread, but I have read 2 or 3, where people have a lot of money (USD $5K or 6K) on deposit with Landry.  I have seen some references to that money as "Investments".  I doubt that the I.R.S. would consider those funds to have been "Investments", if the worst case scenario should eventually happen, and those people lose the money they have on deposit with Landry.  If that were to happen (I hope it does not happen), I believe those victims should check with their C.P.A. or I.R.S. "Enrolled Agent", to determine if that money can be written off as a "Bad Debt".  Again, I hope that does not occur.   


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#110 G5052

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 07:57 PM

The contractor vs. employee issue is something I have always wondered about with regards to Classical Conversations tutors also.

 

They've been investigated as well. I don't know the details, but so I've been told by someone who is no longer teaching with them.



#111 emzhengjiu

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 08:02 PM

I just saved a print screen of my ledger from Landry's website.  It's probably  not necessary at all, but I thought I would like a record of all my generic semesters and financial transactions just in case.

 

ETA:  My daughters have taken classes at Landry for several years now; I very much want them to continue operation!  Praying for wisdom for Greg and for all the teachers affected by this situation.



#112 G5052

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 08:09 PM

And BTW, if you are an independent contractor and the company stops paying you or ends your contract, you can't file for unemployment unless you were paying separately for your own unemployment benefits with your state. Some states allow that, and some don't.

 

Not that this would happen with online teaching, but independent contractors aren't eligible for Workman's Compensation in most cases.

 

You rights are very limited if you wish to file a discrimination or harassment claim with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission or a state agency.

 

If you have been paying your self-employment tax and have enough quarters with Social Security, you do qualify for Social Security Disability. Your self-employment tax also gives you credit for Social Security Retirement. That's about it though.

 

Independent contractors receive no life insurance, no health insurance, no retirement, and can be fired at will.

 

You can see why Labor Department and Internal Revenue Service have been cracking down on that area. Certainly there is a place for independent contractors, but it's often not the correct way of treating someone who works for you.


Edited by G5052, 28 December 2016 - 08:10 PM.

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#113 blessed3x

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 08:10 PM

For what it is worth, Landry's Japanese instructor, Charlotte Royal, is now listed as an instructor for Excelsior Classes. I believe she will be teaching for them, and not Landry, this fall. All though, I suppose it is possible she will teach for both companies, if Landry will allow that.

 

 

My son is in her Japanese class. It is a year long class, so I hope she finishes this year with Landry.  I emailed her before Christmas to ask if she is going to finish the class, but have not received a response yet.  I hope it is simply that she is waiting, like all of us, to see if Landry is able to stay open in the spring.


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#114 chiguirre

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 08:13 PM

The people who have generic semesters aren't investors they're creditors. Landry owes us x number of semesters.

I feel really bad for people who are thousands of dollars in the hole, that's just painful. We've been heavy Landry users for the last three years so I'm only out $1200 if they fold now and much less if they muddle through this semester. Honestly, that money would only bring the price of the 27 courses Trinqueta's already taken up to fair market value instead of the mega bargain I got on them. I would be very sad to see them go but I can't say they ripped me off.
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#115 Artichoke

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 08:43 PM

nm 

 


Edited by Artichoke, 07 March 2017 - 02:07 PM.

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#116 Calming Tea

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 09:08 PM

Our whole tax code sucks. We made a 2k mistake back in 2014 and the sickening part is we also will owe them "interest" on our mistake so that 2 k will likely be more than 6k.

Praying for the Landrys


Edited by Susan Wise Bauer, 29 December 2016 - 10:53 AM.
Took out the politics.

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#117 texasmom33

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 09:23 PM

You would think common sense would dictate that the IRS would want them to be able to continue on as a business so they could continue paying taxes, not shut them down! I know that goes against government logic though.  So they messed up! Let them have a payment plan! They don't need to run them into financial ruin to show their almighty power. We already know that where all other law enforcement fails, the a-hole IRS succeeds. This is just sad. I don't care if the Landry's should've known better or not. It's not a mistake worth running hard working people out of business over. The IRS needs to just go. Away. There has to be a better way. 

 

Praying a solution is found for you all. I don't have anything invested, but  I was looking forward to utilizing them next year and have followed this thread closely. Sad situation all around. 


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#118 cjzimmer1

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 10:40 PM

The people who have generic semesters aren't investors they're creditors. Landry owes us x number of semesters.

I feel really bad for people who are thousands of dollars in the hole, that's just painful. We've been heavy Landry users for the last three years so I'm only out $1200 if they fold now and much less if they muddle through this semester. Honestly, that money would only bring the price of the 27 courses Trinqueta's already taken up to fair market value instead of the mega bargain I got on them. I would be very sad to see them go but I can't say they ripped me off.

 

I did the math on what we paid and what we used and it's still less than I've paid elsewhere.  I've already gotten an email from an unhappy parent whose husband is a lawyer and is putting together a lawsuit.  It was not a kindly written email especially since we don't know where things stand.  Most of our favorite teachers left this summer however we didn't find out till right before classes started.  While the new teachers are fine, we don't have the same connection with them as the old ones so I'm not planning to stick with Landry long term.  It would be nice to get my money back but if I don't it's not a big deal because as I said my per class cost for what I've used is still less than I've paid elsewhere. 
 


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#119 klmama

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 11:51 PM

I did the math on what we paid and what we used and it's still less than I've paid elsewhere. 

 

Same here.  Even if next semester or next year don't happen, the overall price we've paid per semester and per individual class is still amazingly low.  I pay a lot more per class for local music lessons. 

 

 

I've already gotten an email from an unhappy parent whose husband is a lawyer and is putting together a lawsuit. 

 

I wish instead he were offering his services to help Landry negotiate some sort of settlement agreement or payment plan with the IRS in order to stay open. 


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#120 mom2hunangirls

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:07 AM

Usually in these cases, it is reversed: teachers are classified as contractors (can make their own hours usually, other regulations apply), but are treated as employees. At least, those are the cases I've been involved in.

I believe the IRS is looking at the oversight Landry had over the "contractors". If they told them what to teach, etc or if Landry collected the money and paid it out to the "contractors"....that's a problem. I have zero connection to them. But based on other work I've done with schools when someone mentioned contracted labor vs employee regarding Landry, I gasped.
I think there is more to it. Someone in their accounting realm would have rang this bell by now.

Edited to add: other people were responding more clearly with what I was saying while I was typing. Sigh.

Edited by mom2hunangirls, 29 December 2016 - 12:12 AM.

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#121 cjzimmer1

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:08 AM


 

 

I wish instead he were offering his services to help Landry negotiate some sort of settlement agreement or payment plan with the IRS in order to stay open. 

 

No kidding, I'd suggest it to her but the tone was so hostile and a bit braggy about how good her husband is at finding money and it's not right for companies to act like this, it was extremely off putting.  We don't know where things stand, sure the silence is frustrating but I'm quite certain it's simply because they are still trying to figure out things themselves, threatening a lawsuit is not going to speed the process up.


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#122 ajbaby

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:59 AM

I did the math on what we paid and what we used and it's still less than I've paid elsewhere.  I've already gotten an email from an unhappy parent whose husband is a lawyer and is putting together a lawsuit.  It was not a kindly written email especially since we don't know where things stand.  Most of our favorite teachers left this summer however we didn't find out till right before classes started.  While the new teachers are fine, we don't have the same connection with them as the old ones so I'm not planning to stick with Landry long term.  It would be nice to get my money back but if I don't it's not a big deal because as I said my per class cost for what I've used is still less than I've paid elsewhere. 
 

 

 

No kidding, I'd suggest it to her but the tone was so hostile and a bit braggy about how good her husband is at finding money and it's not right for companies to act like this, it was extremely off putting.  We don't know where things stand, sure the silence is frustrating but I'm quite certain it's simply because they are still trying to figure out things themselves, threatening a lawsuit is not going to speed the process up.

I did not find it off-putting at all. What's off-putting is not being given answers.  For some of us this is an enormous blow.  We have 35 UNUSED generics in our account.  20 of those were paid for this past May ($2567) and the others were bought 3 months prior ($1440). That's a total of over $4K that we paid on our credit card which is a lot of money to this family of 6 on one income.  What difference does the math make on what we've already used/Landry being lower/more economical than most?  We paid for something that we haven't been able to use yet, and if Landry goes under, that is a HUGE loss to us.  We had NO IDEA of their money troubles until a December 23rd email from our son's english teacher.  This, despite asking Landry beginning in August, why our kids' teachers were all quitting. One mom mentioned she has 70 generics and is sick about this.  I'm so sorry. We feel the same.


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#123 SarahW

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 02:36 AM

And BTW, if you are an independent contractor and the company stops paying you or ends your contract, you can't file for unemployment unless you were paying separately for your own unemployment benefits with your state. Some states allow that, and some don't.

 

Not that this would happen with online teaching, but independent contractors aren't eligible for Workman's Compensation in most cases.

 

You rights are very limited if you wish to file a discrimination or harassment claim with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission or a state agency.

 

If you have been paying your self-employment tax and have enough quarters with Social Security, you do qualify for Social Security Disability. Your self-employment tax also gives you credit for Social Security Retirement. That's about it though.

 

Independent contractors receive no life insurance, no health insurance, no retirement, and can be fired at will.

 

You can see why Labor Department and Internal Revenue Service have been cracking down on that area. Certainly there is a place for independent contractors, but it's often not the correct way of treating someone who works for you.

 

 

Exactly. A lot of the church work my DH did was as IC. Sometimes that made sense. But one time we were at a large church where he absolutely was a salary employee, and the church had the knowledge and ability to pay him as a W-2, but they just didn't want to. I brought up the unemployment and other issues with them once and they literally smirked and laughed and said that unemployment was for baby losers, so why should they pay into that! So yep, DH could be fired on a whim and our little kid would be homeless on the street, but they got to thumb their little noses at the IRS! Whoopie! Yeah, crooks and scrooges. I got us out of there as fast as I could.

 

I'm really glad the IRS is cracking down on IC abuse. People can do what they want with themselves, but as soon as you start involving other people you really should double check that what you're doing is legal and fair, not to mention ethical and moral. I'm a little put off about the Landry letter posted above. It looks to me to be all "me, me, me, I worked so hard, me, me, woe is me." I get it, you worked hard for your company. But then you got other people working hard for your company, and if this is really about IC then this is about THEM not you.


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#124 G5052

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 07:51 AM

Exactly. A lot of the church work my DH did was as IC. Sometimes that made sense. But one time we were at a large church where he absolutely was a salary employee, and the church had the knowledge and ability to pay him as a W-2, but they just didn't want to. I brought up the unemployment and other issues with them once and they literally smirked and laughed and said that unemployment was for baby losers, so why should they pay into that! So yep, DH could be fired on a whim and our little kid would be homeless on the street, but they got to thumb their little noses at the IRS! Whoopie! Yeah, crooks and scrooges. I got us out of there as fast as I could.

 

I'm really glad the IRS is cracking down on IC abuse. People can do what they want with themselves, but as soon as you start involving other people you really should double check that what you're doing is legal and fair, not to mention ethical and moral. I'm a little put off about the Landry letter posted above. It looks to me to be all "me, me, me, I worked so hard, me, me, woe is me." I get it, you worked hard for your company. But then you got other people working hard for your company, and if this is really about IC then this is about THEM not you.

 

Yup. Ultimately this sort of thing happens because companies want to hire people on the cheap. They may have lawyers and accountants who tell them that it's OK, but if the individual is an essential part of the business ("part of the team"), gets paid on a regular basis, receives written evaluations of the work, works for primarily for them over an extended period, and receives a certain amount of direction as to how the work is to be done, they probably should be an employee with all of the rights and privileges of that. 

 

Proper IC work is for a short-term project with a clear beginning and end.

 

When I'm doing a writing project for a customer, I'm an IC because the contract ends when the I deliver the final product. I'm not part of their business. I'm just hired to do some work that their normal staff can't handle for whatever reason. 

 

I've periodically contracted with a graphic designer to do graphics for my work, and she's an IC. Once the graphic is emailed to me, the contract ends.

 

For my uncle's estate, we had to hire another lawyer to handle a tenant issue in addition to the estate lawyer. He was an IC. Once the tenant moved out, we waited sixty days, and then paid the final bill and terminated the contract.

 

It's quite a mess, but employers who hire IC's who should have been employees are bringing it upon themselves if the IRS cracks down upon them. 

 

Edited by G5052, 29 December 2016 - 07:55 AM.

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#125 Mrs Twain

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 08:15 AM

Not to change the subject, but Lt. Col. Gene Doremus has indeed switched to teaching at Excelsior online classes. I don't have much invested in Landry and am counting that a loss, now heading over to Excelsior.

Edited by Mrs Twain, 29 December 2016 - 08:15 AM.

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#126 Happygrl

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 08:20 AM

We only have a few generic semesters, so I don't have a lot invested in how this turns out.  The lack of communication & the e-mail that, to me, came off very all about them, though, has soured me a bit.  This morning I hopped on their page to see if there was anything this spring we could use credits on and saw that they are still selling generic credits.  I understand they may need that for cash-flow purposes and that taking them off may cause more panic.  But it bothers me that they are selling them (plus everything else) when they are under such financial strain, particularly when many people may not have any idea the situation.   

I do hope it turns out well.  I was looking forward to using them next year and we've been eyeing a couple of their camps.  


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#127 Lanny

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 08:38 AM

For one reason or another, they do not seem to have enough Capital to continue operating, as they had done in the past. That could be because the I.R.S. or the Dept. of Labor seized their bank account. That could be because they used up the money they had in their bank account. There are a number of different possibilities as to the cause of what has happened.  This is a Crisis for them and they are not big enough to hire a Crisis Management Consultant, to help them get the information out to their customers, about what is going on and what they plan to do to try to fix things.  The Discounted courses, etc.  Sad situation, because the customers seem to have been extremely happy with their services in the past.



#128 tranquility7

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 11:22 AM

Yup. Ultimately this sort of thing happens because companies want to hire people on the cheap. They may have lawyers and accountants who tell them that it's OK, but if the individual is an essential part of the business ("part of the team"), gets paid on a regular basis, receives written evaluations of the work, works for primarily for them over an extended period, and receives a certain amount of direction as to how the work is to be done, they probably should be an employee with all of the rights and privileges of that.

I wholeheartedly disagree. I am not speaking of the tax law here, I am speaking of principle. I don't disagree with the law as you represented it in your post - I don't know much about it, honestly, and assume you are correct.

 

That being said, Landry agreed to pay a teacher X amount. Teacher agreed to work for X amount. Students signed up. Everyone was happy – Landry, teachers, and students (including all the customers on this thread).

 

But gov't says noooooo, you have to pay Teacher X+Y amount ("Y" being the additional benefits and taxes associated with being classified as an Employee instead of IC). Let’s say Landry knew this years ago and tried to do that. What happens in that scenario? Landry has to either 1) not hire the teacher, or 2) raise prices to offset the increased amt (Y). They might try to do option #2, but they will likely not end up with enough students at that higher rate, and will ultimately end up with option #1... therefore not offering the course, and not meeting the needs of many families out there.

 

So... what is the real result of the IC vs Employee tax laws? No one wins!!! Landry offers fewer courses at higher prices, hires fewer teachers, has fewer students, and fewer families' needs are met. Who wins in that scenario? No one.

 

If the govt would just stay out of it and let people voluntarily enter into their own business agreements of their own free will, we would have teachers voluntarily teaching for an agreed upon amount, students taking courses for a fee they agree to. Just as we have had up until now.


Edited by tranquility7, 29 December 2016 - 11:25 AM.

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#129 lovelearnandlive

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 11:36 AM

I wholeheartedly disagree. I am not speaking of the tax law here, I am speaking of principle. I don't disagree with the law as you represented it in your post - I don't know much about it, honestly, and assume you are correct.

That being said, Landry agreed to pay a teacher X amount. Teacher agreed to work for X amount. Students signed up. Everyone was happy – Landry, teachers, and students (including all the customers on this thread).

But gov't says noooooo, you have to pay Teacher X+Y amount ("Y" being the additional benefits and taxes associated with being classified as an Employee instead of IC). Let’s say Landry knew this years ago and tried to do that. What happens in that scenario? Landry has to either 1) not hire the teacher, or 2) raise prices to offset the increased amt (Y). They might try to do option #2, but they will likely not end up with enough students at that higher rate, and will ultimately end up with option #1... therefore not offering the course, and not meeting the needs of many families out there.

So... what is the real result of the IC vs Employee tax laws? No one wins!!! Landry offers fewer courses at higher prices, hires fewer teachers, has fewer students, and fewer families' needs are met. Who wins in that scenario? No one.

If the govt would just stay out of it and let people voluntarily enter into their own business agreements of their own free will, we would have teachers voluntarily teaching for an agreed upon amount, students taking courses for a fee they agree to. Just as we have had up until now.


The issue is not just the amount paid; its that in these situations the employer is often times paying them as a contractor while at the same time making them follow rules that legally only employees are obligated to follow. If your company is going to call you a contractor but make you behave like an employee, without the rights and benefits that other employees they hire receive, there should be consequences. Money is just one small part of it.
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#130 tess in the burbs

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 11:40 AM

Well I received an email from our art teacher saying Landry email is shut down, apparently as expected she explained. She plans to teach it no matter what, but no mention of the cost if not at Landry.

I panicked reading her email b/c all I saw was "landry shut down". Whew, second skim through it was "email shut down"
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#131 tranquility7

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 11:43 AM

The issue is not just the amount paid; its that in these situations the employer is often times paying them as a contractor while at the same time making them follow rules that legally only employees are obligated to follow. If your company is going to call you a contractor but make you behave like an employee, without the rights and benefits that other employees they hire receive, there should be consequences. Money is just one small part of it.

 

Whether it is money or rules to follow or whatever, if Landry says these are the rules (e.g., use this curriculum, platform, whatever), and the teacher agrees to them, why is it the business of the govt? I understand there are *laws* about this; I am simply saying that there shouldn't be. People should be allowed to freely enter into their own voluntary business agreements.

 


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#132 lovelearnandlive

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 11:43 AM

The issue is not just the amount paid; its that in these situations the employer is often times paying them as a contractor while at the same time making them follow rules that legally only employees are obligated to follow. If your company is going to call you a contractor but make you behave like an employee, without the rights and benefits that other employees they hire receive (employment taxes, disability programs, unemployment, health care eligibility, other employer-sponsored benefits and protections), there should be consequences. Money is just one small part of it.


ETA: This is just a general comment and I'm not trying to say Landry had any bad intent. It can be hard to draw the line between contractor/employee and it's easy to mess things up.

Also, I come from a small business background - we have been counseled to always consider a new hire an employee unless their employment meets very specific, very conservative parameters.
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#133 tess in the burbs

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:02 PM

Heads up, the Landry Email being cancelled means you can't communicate with the teachers unless you have alternate contact info.  Hopefully the teachers downloaded students emails, but I have no way to contact teachers by email now.  I did go write down phone #s from the About the teacher page for my kids teachers.  And one emailed us a personal email as she plans to teach somehow no matter what.   I'm printing out everything today b/c the geniuses site is expected to be down this morning as well. 

 


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#134 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:07 PM

Whether it is money or rules to follow or whatever, if Landry says these are the rules (e.g., use this curriculum, platform, whatever), and the teacher agrees to them, why is it the business of the govt? I understand there are *laws* about this; I am simply saying that there shouldn't be. People should be allowed to freely enter into their own voluntary business agreements.

If Landry were the only game in town, if they had some sort of monopoly on on-line homeschooling, I would disagree but they don't.  There are many times many options for ways to take on-line classes.  In Landry's case, I think they grew too big too quickly and were not conversant with how to handle the growth and how their business would need to change to adjust to that growth.  Whatever happened, I am sorry it did.   A great many people benefited from Landry Academy and could continue to do so. I agree that if all parties are freely entering into agreements, and there are many options for students/teachers (no monopoly) then I don't see why allowing them to work out their own arrangements is a bad idea.  I think at the very least the IRS should offer positive ways for Landry and other businesses like it to adjust their business model without crippling them and forcing them to shut down (which is what appears to me to be happening.)


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#135 tess in the burbs

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:19 PM

well, they just took down the FB page.  Hopefully parents were able to get grades printed out this morning.  We have heard from 2 of dd's teachers with private email who hope to teach in spring somewhere....  And from Ds's German teacher.   No word from ASL teacher yet.  

Hard not to stress about half your school year blowing up like this. 

 


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#136 Happygrl

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:30 PM

Yikes.  I'm guessing they took it down b/c of all the comments flooding in and/or so they can focus on other areas.  But that sure isn't reassuring to the parents who they will need to support them if they're able to sort it out!  


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#137 tess in the burbs

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:36 PM

on the FB group page a current teacher just posted the school is done.  


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#138 Calming Tea

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:39 PM

:( really ?

#139 TwoEdgedSword

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:45 PM

What would be important things to print for our records from the site besides the syllabus and grades?

#140 tess in the burbs

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:45 PM

:( really ?

 

It is official. Sadly, Landry Academy is no more. Not the way I would want it to end, but I'm so grateful for the many years of teaching it provided. I'll continue to pray Greg Landry who undoubtedly must feel as if a part of himself has died.
I have no further information at this time.

 

 

 

 

 

She says in another post many full year teachers are hoping to continue teaching in some way, but she needs a few days to mourn and then will start contacting her students.  Now we wait to hear from teachers.  My dd's ASL teacher hasn't said anything this week, so I don't know if he has personal info to reach out :-(  Just devastated.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#141 Calming Tea

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:46 PM

Tess- That's not what it says, it is a teacher guessing at the situation regarding his email.  Let's not get too hasty with spreading info :)



#142 Happygrl

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:46 PM

Wow.  :(  I'm sorry to all of you that have a lot of money tied up!  I hope they are able to return at least some of it.  

I really feel for all involved.  I'm sure the Landrys are trying to sort out their next steps but I hope they take the time to make contact with whatever info they have right now.  



#143 tess in the burbs

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:52 PM

Tess- That's not what it says, it is a teacher guessing at the situation regarding his email.  Let's not get too hasty with spreading info :)

 He says he received word that the school is closing, not reorganizing.  He asked for a few days to mourn and then would reach out to his students.    He's a current teacher.   


Edited by tess in the burbs, 29 December 2016 - 12:54 PM.

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#144 tess in the burbs

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:56 PM

AND, I now have a personal emailing saying teachers have been emailed the school is closed.  Many hope to teach spring on other platforms.  It is official.  Not spreading any rumors.


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#145 emzhengjiu

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:57 PM

I so hope the information is wrong, but the teacher posted 2 messages.  The first mentioned that Landry's email was closed and some possible explanations.  HIs second post said that Landry's closing was official, but he has no further information.  Hopefully, there will be an official message soon!

 

 

 

 



#146 Calming Tea

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 12:59 PM

He says he received word that the school is closing, not reorganizing. He asked for a few days to mourn and then would reach out to his students. He's a current teacher.

Ok sorry about that I am not showing that on facebook for some reason and thought you were quoting a different post

This is terribly sad
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#147 emzhengjiu

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 01:00 PM

It's also possible Greg will reorganize the company and reopen under a different name.  Unfortunately, reorganization will probably not happen for this semester's classes.



#148 itsheresomewhere

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 01:04 PM

On the other Facebook page, some are reporting that they cashed/process payment. One has reported that her card had the payment returned.

He really should get the info out as this is really going to put parents in a lurch.

Edited by itsheresomewhere, 29 December 2016 - 01:05 PM.


#149 Mrs Twain

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 01:15 PM

Thanks very much to everyone for the info, sad that it is. You have made my planning easier for the upcoming semester since you provided notice of these issues.
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#150 rjand4more

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 01:25 PM

I wonder what will happen with the trips and study abroad?  I *almost* pulled the trigger on a study abroad for this summer...

 

I am upset and a little irritated.  I feel for the school, and I would have been happy to "donate" money to keep the school open at least to the end of the school year.  I'm not sure why they were still offering deep discounts and packages when they knew the financial distress.

 

I did not get her transcript printed. Darn.  Hope they put them back up. I am one who had only a small bit used of the generics I had. 


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