Jump to content

Menu

not sure where to go with 6 YO's reading


caedmyn
 Share

Recommended Posts

I've been using Abecedarian for a phonics program with my 6 YO K'er.  This is the program that made things click for my dyslexic 8 YO when we started it near the end of his 1st grade year, though we've moved on to Barton because it just didn't go far enough.  I figured it would help if 6 YO is dyslexic, and wouldn't hurt if he wasn't.  We're nearly at the end of the first level, and I'm seeing the same things as 8 YO was doing pre-ABCD--reading the same words over and over and still having to sound them out every.single.time.  Whatever made ABCD click for 8 YO, is not clicking for 6 YO.  We even stopped working on new lessons for a few weeks and just worked on fluency with the ABCD readers, I See Sam books, and sentences already covered in the ABCD book.  I don't think it really helped--he got better at reading the readers/sentences with repeated readings, but I think he was just memorizing them, because if I gave him a word that he appeared to have learned in isolation, he still had to sound it out (even if he'd already read that word 15 times that day).

 

He also cannot rhyme.  We've been working on it with rhyming picture cards, letter tiles, and other things every school day for a few weeks and he just does not get it.  He gets some of them right, but I think he's just guessing correctly, because he gets quite a lot of them wrong and can rarely come up with a word that rhymes with any given word.  But he passed all the sections of the Barton level 1 post-test, except the rhyming section.  I'm not sure how essential rhyming really is to reading.  I can see how it would be helpful, but 8 YO didn't figure out rhyming until he'd finished a level of ABCD, and the ability to rhyme apparently wasn't necessary for his reading improvement (and I couldn't tell that it improved any more once he learned how to rhyme).

 

IDK where to go with him.  Do I finish out this level of ABCD with him and hope something clicks?  Do we take a break for a while and hope that some time/maturing improves his reading?  Do we just start Barton at a very slow pace?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not being able to rhyme is a symptom of problems with phonemic awareness. The act of rhyming isn't necessarily needed to be able to read, but the skill of taking apart phonemes and putting together phonemes is a skill that is needed. Since you already gave experience with Barton, why not go ahead and start using it. You just move at what ever pace is appropriate for the child.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not being able to rhyme is a symptom of problems with phonemic awareness. The act of rhyming isn't necessarily needed to be able to read, but the skill of taking apart phonemes and putting together phonemes is a skill that is needed. Since you already gave experience with Barton, why not go ahead and start using it. You just move at what ever pace is appropriate for the child.

Her older son started with Level 2, I believe.  He tested out of Level 1.  I don't believe she has Level 1 and the younger may need it.

 

Caedmyn, I, too would suggest using Barton but I would suggest starting with Level 1, which you may not be too keen on since that is probably an added expense you had not anticipated.  Not sure what else to suggest, though.  Let me think about it and get back to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish I could help. My current child that age is still not quite at that stage even. She can blend single words but she is not reading a sentence as a sentence yet. She needs to blend each word. She is not recognizing them right away. She had issues with phonemic awareness that got better this summer with hear builder but it is still going to be a long process. I could see that early phonemic awareness stuff taking 3 months. It is hard to have more then one kid with difficulties. I heard reading on here being described as being nibbled to death by ducks. The progress can be very slow in the process of learning.

Edited by MistyMountain
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And maybe I would get it and it wouldn't even help...I know someone whose DC has been in level 1 for THREE months, which just seems ridiculous.

Have you given the 6 year old the Barton screening? Even if you don't intend to use Barton it might help you determine if there are some other issues that need addressing before trying to plow forward.

 

As for Barton Level 1 taking 3 months, for some kids that very basic level is a huge mountain to overcome. Not because the level is poorly designed but because the child may have significant comorbid issues that make it really hard to get through. Pacing is going to vary extensively from child to child when you are dealing with neurological differences.

 

DD took significantly longer than DS to get through Level 1. She needed a lot of time to work through things and have it sink in. Level 1 and 2 were hard for her.

 

DD took a week to complete Level 1 and wanted to go faster but I kept him to one lesson a day. Different kids, different strengths and weaknesses.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you given the 6 year old the Barton screening? Even if you don't intend to use Barton it might help you determine if there are some other issues that need addressing before trying to plow forward.

 

 

 

I have  It took him 3 tries (over 3-4 months) to pass part C, but he passed it the last time.  Not sure if it was difficult for him because he really hadn't had any phonemic awareness stuff initially (since Barton says the program is intended for kids at least 5 and halfway through K, to my mind that would indicate the screening is intended for kids who have had a certain amount of phonemic awareness practice and a 5 YO who hasn't had any shouldn't necessarily be expected to pass it).  Also he was balking at doing it a good bit the first two times so that probably played into the number of errors he made also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have It took him 3 tries (over 3-4 months) to pass part C, but he passed it the last time. Not sure if it was difficult for him because he really hadn't had any phonemic awareness stuff initially (since Barton says the program is intended for kids at least 5 and halfway through K, to my mind that would indicate the screening is intended for kids who have had a certain amount of phonemic awareness practice and a 5 YO who hasn't had any shouldn't necessarily be expected to pass it). Also he was balking at doing it a good bit the first two times so that probably played into the number of errors he made also.

Hopefully someone with more expertise than me can answer this better but no I don't believe that to be true. The screening is to determine if they can genuinely hear the sounds and distinguish them, as well as other things that are being tested to see if developmentally they are able to do Barton. Same with the Tutor screening. It has very little to do with if they have had phonemic instruction prior to starting Barton and everything to do with basic skills that should have naturally developed even without instruction. If those skills are not there, they may have to be taught systematically. They may not develop efficiently on their own. Yes, some kids will just need more time but many will need specialized instruction.

 

DS did not pass part C. It was obvious he was struggling in very specific ways that would need to be addressed. He needed LiPS to be able to move into Barton. LiPS did help but my mother was the one tutoring him and was not doing so consistently and did not go far enough in the program. Eventually I had to hire a tutor to help him with his sound descrimination. The additional tutoring in a system similar to LiPS helped tremendously but he STILL sometimes struggles with underlying sounds. Not all. Only certain specific ones. Additional tutoring specifically in sound gave him the skills needed to figure out how to get through those glitches more efficiently, though. Those specific sounds do not process correctly in his brain. It makes rhyming harder, it makes learning to read harder, etc.

 

To be clear, DS's struggles had nothing to do with prior standard phonemic instruction. He had been in school for years before he took the Barton screening. He still failed part C and he still needed targeted help with specific sounds. He hears fine. He was glitching on the processing of certain things he hears.

 

If it took three tries for your son to pass Part C, he may very well need something like LiPS or Foundations In Sound before any sort of reading program will work very well.

Edited by OneStepAtATime
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My ds had articulation delays and had speech therapy for sound discrimination. I think that is the reason by the time he got to the age of reading he did not have difficulty in the early phonemic awareness skills. My younger one in the other hand did not qualify for speech and did not pass the screening the first time she took it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If rhyming is the only phonological awareness skill he needs to learn, you could try the ideas in this blog post, which has information about the 3 stages of learning to rhyme and ideas to use in each stage.

 

Some kids have a hard time with the auditory part of blending, and really benefit from extra oral practice.There is a progression of phonological awareness skills--rhyming, oral blending, alliteration and segmenting (being able to identify the individual sounds in a word–last sounds tend to be easiest, then first sounds, then middle sounds), being able to hear the individual words in a sentence (understanding where the word breaks are when we tend to run our words together in everyday speech), being able to hear and clap with the number of syllables in a word, and so on. The more comfortable children are with being able to take words apart and put them back together orally, and the more they understand how our oral language works, the better prepared they are to attack written words.

 

Weaving in more phonological awareness activities to your lesson times could help with the fluency struggles. Here’s an article on How to Develop Phonological Awareness. Additionally, you can do things like:
 
  • Play matching games with pictures that rhyme (ring and king),
  • Read books that emphasize rhyme and alliteration (same first sound),
  • Read nursery rhymes,
  • Play “I’m going to the zoo†where you talk about animals that begin with a certain sound (you can also do this with the grocery store and food items).
  • Play oral blending games. You say the sounds of a word you are thinking of, and then he blends them into a word. Can he guess a word that you mean if you just say the sounds? Do easy 3-sound words first. This is a game that can help develop blending skills. If he can blend orally, then he is on his way to being able to blend what he reads more easily.
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hopefully someone with more expertise than me can answer this better but no I don't believe that to be true. The screening is to determine if they can genuinely hear the sounds and distinguish them, as well as other things that are being tested to see if developmentally they are able to do Barton. Same with the Tutor screening. It has very little to do with if they have had phonemic instruction prior to starting Barton and everything to do with basic skills that should have naturally developed even without instruction. If those skills are not there, they may have to be taught systematically. They may not develop efficiently on their own. Yes, some kids will just need more time but many will need specialized instruction.

 

 

I do not know, but it seems like if the program is designed for kids in mid-K and up, the screening wouldn't be for anything less than that.  And both the Wilson tutor I know who taught in a dyslexia school and the creator of the Abecedarian program said that most 5 YOs have some issues with auditory discrimination.  

 

Anyway, I emailed Barton about it so we will see what they say.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

If rhyming is the only phonological awareness skill he needs to learn, you could try the ideas in this blog post, which has information about the 3 stages of learning to rhyme and ideas to use in each stage.

 

Some kids have a hard time with the auditory part of blending, and really benefit from extra oral practice.There is a progression of phonological awareness skills--rhyming, oral blending, alliteration and segmenting (being able to identify the individual sounds in a word–last sounds tend to be easiest, then first sounds, then middle sounds), being able to hear the individual words in a sentence (understanding where the word breaks are when we tend to run our words together in everyday speech), being able to hear and clap with the number of syllables in a word, and so on. The more comfortable children are with being able to take words apart and put them back together orally, and the more they understand how our oral language works, the better prepared they are to attack written words.

 

Weaving in more phonological awareness activities to your lesson times could help with the fluency struggles. Here’s an article on How to Develop Phonological Awareness. Additionally, you can do things like:
 
  • Play matching games with pictures that rhyme (ring and king),
  • Read books that emphasize rhyme and alliteration (same first sound),
  • Read nursery rhymes,
  • Play “I’m going to the zoo†where you talk about animals that begin with a certain sound (you can also do this with the grocery store and food items).
  • Play oral blending games. You say the sounds of a word you are thinking of, and then he blends them into a word. Can he guess a word that you mean if you just say the sounds? Do easy 3-sound words first. This is a game that can help develop blending skills. If he can blend orally, then he is on his way to being able to blend what he reads more easily.

 

 

That's what we've been doing, particularly step 2, and it doesn't seem to be helping.  He doesn't have trouble blending or segmenting and he can clap syllables.  It's just the rhyming that's tripping him up.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My DS was 11 when we started Barton and I discovered that he could not rhyme. He had learned how to fake it well enough to fool his elementary teachers. He could give one word that rhymed with a given word, but if he was asked to give 3-4 words that all rhymed with a given word he could not do it.

 

I wish I had a way to share the Barton rhyming lesson with you. Manipulating the colored tiles really helped my DS understand what was happening. Basically, you make a word with three sounds. Each sound is represented by one colored tile. Then you have the student remove the beginning tile/sound and replace it with a new color of tile to represent a new sound. And the do it again with another beginning sound and so on, For example, the word CAT would be made red, yellow, blue tiles. Take away the /k/ sound red tile and replace it with the sound /b/ using a green tile, then replace the /b/ with /m/ using an orange tile.

 

 

Basically, it is the same thing thing that many kinder classrooms do anyway, but something about the combination of auditory, visual, and movement worked for my DS. He does not "get" things when just presented orally.

 

Look for activities for phoneme deletion and addition rather than simply rhyming.

Edited by City Mouse
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Though a difficulty with rhyming, is rather a symptom of difficulty with percieving Rhythm.

 

As Rhythm is what we use to structure sounds, and form words.

With 2 primary elements.

Of sounds and timing.

With sounds, we can take phonemes.  So that as we pronounce a phoneme?

Such as 'Pho'.   Their is an onset with 'Ph', through to 'o' and its decay.

We can then vary the timing, of the both sounds. So that both may have equal timing. Or the Ph might longer than the o, or vice versa.

Also, we can vary the volume level of each sound, to emphasise one.

As well, we can vary the pitch Ph and o.  Which may start at a lower or higher pitch, and held at it.

Or may go from low to high, or vice versa. Which can turn a word from a statement, to a question.

 

But when we combine phonemes and letters together, to produce words?

Each word has its own 'timing'.

For example, when we pronounce the word 'timing'?   't' cant be extended, though 'i' can be held. As with 'm', and 'ing'.

 

So that when we combine phonemes and letters together to form a word?

Each word, has its own timing or tempo, that unifies the sounds and creates a unique structure.

 

But to address difficulties with Rhythm?   The best thing to use, is Music.

One element, involves Tempo.  Which can be practised, by simply listening to music and trying to tap out the beat.  Which could use one finger on each hand, and done on a table.

Then the second element, involves Sound.  Where a recorder or tin-whistle could be used. 

With a particular focus on how long each note is held?

 

So for example, with practising a sequence of 4 different notes.

Or maybe just start with 2 notes?

With perhaps 1-2-1-2 timing. 

Then changing it to 2-1-2-1 timing.

 

Also if he practised playing something like;  G-A-E, F-A-E,  repeatedly.

With A-E repeating in both, he would probably hear and understand that they both rhyme.

 

But then if he changes the timing, to G-A-A-E and F-A-E-E.  That only the last note rhymes.

 

So that with playing music, he could come to hear and understand rhyming.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could try that, geodob.  He does tend to be musically inclined so that might help.

 

So Barton responded and recommended that I do level one with him.  I am just not convinced that it will help, and it's such a lot of money to spend on what seems like a gamble.  Is there a lot more to the rhyming lesson in level 1 than is apparent from the rhyming section of the post-test?  I used the post-test page to show him how to rhyme with blank tiles, and he got it right away, and can rhyme fine with those, and could now pass the post-test.  But he STILL doesn't really get rhyming, because then I asked him to make up a word that rhymes with sip without the tiles, and he said pip...and then I asked him to think of another one, and he said pet.  He can tell me that you change the first sound to make a word that rhymes, but he doesn't really understand it.

 

Oh and she didn't say anything about him taking 3 tries to pass the post-test, so apparently she doesn't feel he needs LiPS at this point.

Edited by caedmyn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is clear that you don't want to use Barton or trust it.  I guess I don't understand why you are bothering with it all.  

 

I don't expect your 6 yo to fail part C after taking it 3 times.  You have already mentioned that he memorizes briefly and then forgets later.

 

I'm going to mention one thing about nt readers and then make a few suggestions.  My non-dyslexic 5 yo rhymed and did it all the time with my prompting.  I didn't have to train her at all to do that.  NT readers do not struggle this way.

 

If you haven't done so yet, read Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz.  The book is getting old and she never mentions homeschooling so ignore that fact.  Her recs and information are sound assuming there is no APD or developmental vision issue going.  You may want to seriously consider taking a two week O-G course or getting Barton certified so that you can recoup the money by tutoring dyslexic children at a later date.  Tutors in my area demand upwards of $80 per hour.  Check a tax attorney and look into the Coverdell Ed ira.  Consider using one so that you can set money aside for materials tax free.  

 

Personally, I would follow Merry's directions to the letter.  Practice rhyming activities and give it three months.  Afterwards, purchase an older LiPS manual and teach your child LiPS yourself if he still fails part C of Barton. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't used Barton, because DD11 has received tutoring and is now in a dyslexia school. But it occurred to me that it might help you to think of level one as phonemic awareness instead of "rhyming." Phonemic awareness is a prime deficit in children with dyslexia, so it is an essential skill to work on.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is not that I don't trust Barton, as it appears that it works for just about everyone who uses it.  It's just a huge commitment of both time and money, and super fiddly which I have a hard time with in general, and it is not the only program out there for dyslexia.  I don't think it's unreasonable to want to be fairly certain that Level 1 is what he needs and is likely to actually help him, before I drop $250, or even $175ish on eBay, on it, on top of the $500 I've already spent on Barton in the last month for levels 2 & 3.  

 

My 6 YO did not pass part C because he memorized it.  He doesn't seem to memorize all that easily, though he does eventually remember most of the words in a group of similar sentences that he's read twice a day every day for a week, enough that it can appear that he's gaining fluency...until I have him read a word in isolation, or try that same group of sentences after a week of not reading them, and he's back to sounding every single thing out again.  It would have been more accurate if I'd said he remembers them, instead of memorizes them.  Anyway, even if he did memorize easily, I can't imagine anyone without a photographic memory could remember part C of that pre-screen a month later after going through (half of) it once...and then again two months later.  He certainly didn't.  

 

I have read Overcoming Dyslexia.  I have no desire whatsoever to tutor other dyslexic children, even if I had the time for it, which I don't.  Tutoring rates are very low here anyway.  The Wilson tutor I know who has a PhD in Special Ed charges $30/hr, and says she rarely has anyone commit to one-on-one tutoring because of the expense.  That's why she's offering small group classes (I mentioned it in another thread), to try to make it affordable for people who wouldn't otherwise be able to get tutoring for their kids.  I doubt I could get more than $20 or $25 an hour at a maximum if I were to tutor.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could try that, geodob.  He does tend to be musically inclined so that might help.

 

So Barton responded and recommended that I do level one with him.  I am just not convinced that it will help, and it's such a lot of money to spend on what seems like a gamble.  Is there a lot more to the rhyming lesson in level 1 than is apparent from the rhyming section of the post-test?  I used the post-test page to show him how to rhyme with blank tiles, and he got it right away, and can rhyme fine with those, and could now pass the post-test.  But he STILL doesn't really get rhyming, because then I asked him to make up a word that rhymes with sip without the tiles, and he said pip...and then I asked him to think of another one, and he said pet.  He can tell me that you change the first sound to make a word that rhymes, but he doesn't really understand it.

 

Oh and she didn't say anything about him taking 3 tries to pass the post-test, so apparently she doesn't feel he needs LiPS at this point.

I'm glad she responded.  Did you ask specifically if he might need LiPS/Foundations in Sound or did it just not come up?  Feel free to ignore the question.  I'm just curious.

 

FWIW, Level 1 is a lot more than just rhyming but it definitely helped both of my kids to rhyme better after going through it.  Whether it would help your 6 year old or not, I cannot guarantee that.  Maybe using some of the other suggestions up thread will help him and you won't have to spend more money on Level 1 of Barton. 

 

I wish I had other resources to suggest.  I'm sure there are options out there.  I'm just not conversant with them.

 

I hope you find something that works for your child.  Good luck.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For phonemic awareness, we used Earobics and did several games, over the course of an entire year before DS was ready to progress to actual learning of letter sounds. "rhyming" is only part of it, but I can tell you with absolute certainty, if he doesn't truly grasp that concept, he's not ready to move forward. I can also tell you, at 6, you have time to pause, play games, follow Merry's advice for now, and start a dyslexia program in a little while, whether Barton or something else.

 

My DS was 7.5 when dx'ed, did mostly phonemic awareness stuff for the year from age 8 to 9, several "cheaper" OG programs from 9 to 11, where he finally reached what sounds like the level your 6 yr old is at now. (My DS does have other learning disabilities and developmental delays that compound all of this for him). We had a follow up evaluation this past summer (he was 11.5 and had progressed to reading the little scholastic step one readers, and some step two, like Amelia Bedelia, though it took the course of a week to get through one). After that eval, we were told his dyslexia was the worst they had seen in someone his age, and I realized I could NOT keep cobbling together this and that program, and dove into Barton, starting with Level 2 which we started in late September/early October and just finished yesterday.

 

I share all that to say -- yes, your 6 yr old also needs help, and likely intensive help at some point. But, you do have time. Don't buy Barton Level 1 right now if you can't; take time, do the activities Merry suggested, give your 6 yr old time to acquire and truly master all the skills of phonemic awareness (the rhyming), and don't try moving forward until he has, it will just be frustration. Truly. Once he's mastered rhyming and really has the phonemic awareness, the foundation of being able to read then start whatever reading program you feel best. Focus on your 8 yr old for now, focus on the rhyming skills for the 6 yr old, and try not to get overwhelmed. Barton will be there when you and he are ready.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm glad she responded.  Did you ask specifically if he might need LiPS/Foundations in Sound or did it just not come up?  Feel free to ignore the question.  I'm just curious.

 

 

 

I mentioned that it had taken him 3 times over 3ish months to pass it but didn't specifically ask about either of those.

 

I just gave him the whole pre-screening again just to see what would happen, and he failed all three parts.  Not sure how he can pass them one time and not another.  I wish I could just have somebody else deal with all this.  I am so tired of being the figure-it-all-out-and-fix-it person.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mentioned that it had taken him 3 times over 3ish months to pass it but didn't specifically ask about either of those.

 

I just gave him the whole pre-screening again just to see what would happen, and he failed all three parts.  Not sure how he can pass them one time and not another.  I wish I could just have somebody else deal with all this.  I am so tired of being the figure-it-all-out-and-fix-it person.

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Why not take a break from trying to teach the 6 year old to read, just for a few weeks?  Just let him listen to audio books, play some educational games and step back for a bit.  Seriously.  He is only 6 and you have a lot on your plate.  Focus on your older son for a bit while you give yourself time to process things.  The 6 year old really does have time.

 

In the end, though, honestly if he failed all three parts after having taken the pretest several times this year, once you start up with him again (if you do decide to take a break) I would suggest you look at Foundations in Sound.  It is supposed to be much more clearly laid out and user friendly than LiPS.  It is designed for a layman to use and it may fill in the gaps that your 6 year old seems to be missing.  

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Caedmyn,  rather than spend $250 to teach him rhyme?

Maybe you could help him develop the ability to hear and understand 'Metrical Structure'?

 

Where each word has a unique metrical structure of sounds/phonemes.

Which can be defined as unique Rhythm.  

But this focus on 'phonemic awareness', and the sound of individual phonemes?

 

Is rather like a focus on recognising different 'musical notes'?

Without looking at the ability to recognise a group of musical notes, as a Metrical Structure.

 

Though the focus could be shifted away from phonemes, and instead use music notes, to develop an awareness of Metrical Structure.

Which could then be transferred to phonemes and words.

 

But with using music, it would need to use a 'wind instrument', such as a recorder.

The important difference with wind instruments? Is that with other instruments, their is little ability to vary the 'onset and decay' of a note.

But with wind instruments, we can vary the onset and decay.

So that for example, the notes G-A-C could be played/ blown, with certain onsets and decays.

Then G-A-C are repeated, using different 'onsets and decays'.

 

Maybe the difference could just be, the A is extended and the C is shortened.

Then the next line, the A is shortened, and the C is extended.

With these 2 lines, played repeatedly.

 

If your son practiced playing this, and was then asked what the difference between each line is?

He will probably identify the difference with A and C, in alternating lines.

 

Then the next step, could be to introduce D into it?

So that it becomes, A-G-C, A-G-C, D-G-C, D-G-C,

 

Where he will quite likely understand, that with the first A-G-C and D-G-C, that A is extended and the C is shortened.

Whilst with the second  A-G-C and D-G-C, that the A is shortened, and the C is extended.

 

That the G-C in the first A-G-C and D-G-C, are the same, and Rhyme with each other.

With the second A-G-C and D-G-C, having a different Rhyme.

 

Then maybe, adding E-G-C to it?

Where he will quite likely understand, that he adding the same ending to E.

That A,D and E lines, all have the same ending.

Which is called 'rhyming with each other'.

 

Having established this understanding of 'rhyming'?

He could then be asked, to think about the ending of words?

Which he may now be able to hear.

 

Though basically, music could be used to help him develop an awareness and understanding of 'metrical structure'.

Which he could then think about, in regard to words?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe I should just get LiPS and then do Barton 1. I think I could do the same auditory discrimination stuff I did with him before to get him to pass the Barton pre-screen last time, because what he had trouble with was sorting out /sh/ from other sounds. The first couple times he had a lot of trouble with /n/ and /m/ but since we worked on those he has no trouble at all with them. But I feel like there is something holding him up besides just trouble differentiating between /sh/ and a couple other sounds (digraphs haven't even been introduced yet in his reading) and inability to rhyme. It doesn't seem like that is enough to account for him still having to sound out every single word when the rest of his phonemic awareness skills seem ok. DS1 didn't even do that poorly, even before he started Abecedarian. So maybe it would be better to stick to the proven programs and hope that catches the glitches, whatever they are.

 

I think we'll take the rest of the month at least off of for him though. I was thinking of maybe putting DD through Barton 4 and once she's done I can start LiPS with the 6 yo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe I should just get LiPS and then do Barton 1. I think I could do the same auditory discrimination stuff I did with him before to get him to pass the Barton pre-screen last time, because what he had trouble with was sorting out /sh/ from other sounds. The first couple times he had a lot of trouble with /n/ and /m/ but since we worked on those he has no trouble at all with them. But I feel like there is something holding him up besides just trouble differentiating between /sh/ and a couple other sounds (digraphs haven't even been introduced yet in his reading) and inability to rhyme. It doesn't seem like that is enough to account for him still having to sound out every single word when the rest of his phonemic awareness skills seem ok. DS1 didn't even do that poorly, even before he started Abecedarian. So maybe it would be better to stick to the proven programs and hope that catches the glitches, whatever they are.

 

I think we'll take the rest of the month at least off of for him though. I was thinking of maybe putting DD through Barton 4 and once she's done I can start LiPS with the 6 yo.

Do you already have LiPS or a way to get a cheap copy of LiPS?  If not, have you looked at Foundation in Sounds?  I have not used it but everything I am reading indicates it is MUCH easier for a layman to implement than LiPS.  It is also specifically for students who cannot pass part C of the Barton system.  It does not go into the depth that LiPS does, as far as I understand it, but most people don't need to use all of LiPS before starting Barton Level 1.  And on the Barton site they tell tutors they can jump ship from LiPS to Barton at some point during LiPS but LiPS does not have a super clear cut off point where jumping ship would be obvious.  With Foundations in Sound you just start with Barton Level 1 after you finish it.

 

http://www.foundationinsounds.com/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just the manual is $60ish on Amazon. There's a thread here somewhere on what you need to make to use with the manual and how to use the manual. I guess it's hard to say without seeing it, but with that price difference, it's probably worth spending a little time figuring it out. And maybe I could ask my 3 YOs SLP for help once he starts speech therapy if there's anything I can't figure out. There is supposed to be a Barton & LiPS tutor here that I just found out about but I don't see DH going for that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't know if this would appeal to you, but my dd did not pass the Barton screening (I don't think she passed any of it), and we just started Barton level 1 without doing LIPS, and she just learned what she needed as we went. Sometimes we repeated lessons, went really slowly, etc. It wasn't easy. 

 

My experience with her has not been a linear progression; she never mastered one thing before moving on to the next, but now it's been about 1.5 yrs of consistent Barton use, and she has improved in her reading a LOT.  She still has a bit of trouble w/rhyming but it's better, and it has not held her back from progressing. I think if I had focused solely on rhyming/phonemic awareness for very long, we would have both gone crazy. So it's been better to just hit all skills from different angles, at the same time. She also goes to Scottish Rite which works on a little bit different stuff.

Edited by Jenn in CA
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...