Ballet - what do we need to do now?

[nobeatenpath]

My son is talking about 'maybe' looking at aiming for ballet as a career. He is 12 and has been taking classes for a year, so he is only Grade 3 (as in RAD Grade 3) and despite me telling him that plenty of male ballet dancers started as his age or later (and showing him websites and biographies of these dancers) he is already doing the 'oh I have started too late I have no chance' thing.

 

He has three classes a week at a good ballet school that combines Vaganova and RAD. He does specific work with a male teacher (there are only two other boys at his school - both younger and one of those is really not interested) to learn specifically male techniques. We are willing to commit money and time to extra classes if that is what he needs and wants but don't know if that is going to help if he is only Grade 3. He has a friend (a girl) who is younger than him and she goes to classes at three different schools :ohmy: and her technique is fantastic but is that due to the multitude of lessons each week, or does she really enjoy ballet because she is talented.

 

The other issue is he has very short leg and back muscles - he was going to the physio for stretches because every time he has a growth spurt he tightens right up because his already short muscles are not keeping up with his bones. Is it worth considering dance as a future if he is going to be coping with this all his life? (his father also has the same thing, so it is not just a growing pains/child thing).

 

But after all that - he is very good. He is incredibly elegant (others have remarked on this), and has good musicality. And this is the one thing (outside of computer games!) I have ever seen him really passionate about and really wanting to do and commit - even when he was having problems with his feet and knees he never wanted to skip a lesson; if a teacher recommends he do something at home (exercises for example) he is committed to doing them; after watching ballet performances he will say that was good to watch but he much prefers doing ballet to watching it. So where do we go from here? How much is it worth doing when you are a 12 year old boy if you think you might want to do ballet 'seriously'?

 

(Note: I have a music not a dance background so I am floundering a little. People are always saying how good he is but because it is rare to see boys dancing here I don't know if it is 'he is so good' or they are being polite so I am trying not to let that be the yardstick).

 

[kroe1]

More classes on more days.

[Tanaqui]

He has a friend (a girl) who is younger than him and she goes to classes at three different schools :ohmy: and her technique is fantastic but is that due to the multitude of lessons each week, or does she really enjoy ballet because she is talented.

 

Well, anybody can become technically proficient if they put in the time, whether or not they have talent. Talent helps, but it can't do the work for you.

 

If he's serious about dance, and genuinely considering  a career, then he needs to be in more classes, more days a week, and he needs to ask his teachers what he can do at home every day, in the mornings or whenever, to help his training. When my sister was doing dance at LaGuardia at that same age, lo these many years ago, she was taking dance for half the day in school, plus going to Joffrey for classes six days a week. If you're serious about this field, you have to put in the hours. (Even now, and she doesn't do anything professionally in dance, she puts in several hours a week. Not ballet anymore, though.)

 

LOL, and of course it's not just dance! Once, many years ago when the girls were little, they were watching Angelina Ballerina and the interstitial segment was on young musicians. The kids were being interviewed and showing off their mad skills, and I said "Yes, and they only practice for three hours a day", to which my girls rolled their eyes. Right on cue, the interviewer asked the children how long they practiced every day - "About three hours". The expression on my girls' faces, oh, I wish I'd had a camera on me.

[ErinE]

Agree with Tanaqui. At 12, he should be in more classes. I don't know if other schools would help if he's making good progress in his current one. Has he talked to the director and his teachers? He or she could give him greater feedback on what he needs to do to progress faster. If his teachers are aware he wants to get better, they will "push" him more. I don't mean push in a bad way. A dance teacher walks a fine line between correcting and encouraging, especially with young children, so she might only correct one thing when two or three things are wrong. If she knows he wants to improve, she'll provide more guidance.

 

He should be stretching constantly. I'm naturally flexible, but I still stretched whenever I could when I was dancing. I did my homework in the floor so I could stretch my legs. I propped a foot up on the counter and stretched when I was on the phone.

 

He should explore summer camps. It's a good way to gain exposure and learn from experts. If he's very serious, he can look into high school programs, where the children have shortened school hours and take dance the remainder of the day.

[GinaPagnato]

At 12 he is at a slight disadvantage, but not one that is insurmountable.

 

If a kid has the drive to make up for "lost" time, he can more than compensate. It will take more classes on more days, as pps have mentioned. Let the instructors know how seriously he wants to pursue this so they take a special interest in him. Look into summer programs/festivals so he can get additional training and meet potential future instructors. 

 

 

[ashfern]

I have no advice about the ballet but I was wondering if yoga could help with stretching his muscles. 

[bolt.]

What is he thinking of for his secondary career, and/or "day job"? You will need an education plan that dovetails a preparation to set him on a solid footing for that goal too.

 

(Presuming his goal isn't only to have you fully support him as he launches into a short career in the arts, then figure out 'what comes next' after his dance-able years have concluded.)

[Lady Marmalade]

Boys/Men don't have the same ticking clock that women have with regards to dance.  If he has the passion, let him go all in.  Extra classes- especially strength/conditioning classes will REALLY help him through the growth spurts too.  Every time my DS grows, it frustrates him to no end, because he gets so close on his splits, and then he grows and has to start over again.  But just imagine how tight those muscles would be if they weren't dancing!  

 

At 12 years old, I wouldn't worry about planning a secondary career.  If he has passion and desire at this age, and you have resources and time to commit to get him there, let him go all in and see what happens.  If at some point he starts to have doubts, then re-evaluate.  I can't tell you how much I would love to let my 12 year old commit himself fully to dance, because I know he could make something of it.  Resources are limited though, so he does what we can allow him to do and it enriches his life so much.  Your son is very lucky to have you there ready to be his head cheerleader!

[nobeatenpath]

Summer schools are not really a thing here in Turkey and we are not in a position for him to travel overseas for Summer at the moment. However we will be moving back to the UK or Europe in 18 months so that is a future option. He is also looking at the Royal Ballet school, though potentially to go at 16 rather than at a younger age  with boarding then (he was a boarding school student in the past and that is just not a good option for him. And we can't afford to live in London).

 

We will be speaking to his school about his ambitions and potential extra classes but at the moment the only extras at his grade level (and he has already skipped one grade and will probably skip another in February) are private lessons (which we are considering but he really gets a lot out of having others in the room with him) or modern/jazz (which he has no interest in). Also there is only so much he can do, technique-wise, until he is older and stronger - boys are different than girls in that regard. We are investigating another school which has even more of a 'technical' focus than his school which has some technique but is very 'performance' focused, if that makes sense. There are a lot of ballet schools here in Istanbul but unfortunately most are very geared towards concerts rather than learning formal technique.

 

We are not worried about what to do if ballet doesn't work out - he is already on a second year of highschool level studies and even if he did a few 'serious' years of ballet and decided in four or five years it is not for him he will have continued to a level that he can put in one or two years and get the subjects to apply for university.

 

[LucyStoner]

I have a friend whose son took his first class less than 2 years ago and who is now in the Nutcracker at the largest professional ballet company in a 4 state area.

[Anne]

I wonder if it would be helpful for you to contact a reputable ballet school - as in, where would he like to go if money/location were no barrier? And ask the same kind of questions you ask here.

 

Anne

[kitten18]

Summer schools are not really a thing here in Turkey and we are not in a position for him to travel overseas for Summer at the moment. However we will be moving back to the UK or Europe in 18 months so that is a future option. He is also looking at the Royal Ballet school, though potentially to go at 16 rather than at a younger age with boarding then (he was a boarding school student in the past and that is just not a good option for him. And we can't afford to live in London).

 

We will be speaking to his school about his ambitions and potential extra classes but at the moment the only extras at his grade level (and he has already skipped one grade and will probably skip another in February) are private lessons (which we are considering but he really gets a lot out of having others in the room with him) or modern/jazz (which he has no interest in). Also there is only so much he can do, technique-wise, until he is older and stronger - boys are different than girls in that regard. We are investigating another school which has even more of a 'technical' focus than his school which has some technique but is very 'performance' focused, if that makes sense. There are a lot of ballet schools here in Istanbul but unfortunately most are very geared towards concerts rather than learning formal technique.

 

We are not worried about what to do if ballet doesn't work out - he is already on a second year of highschool level studies and even if he did a few 'serious' years of ballet and decided in four or five years it is not for him he will have continued to a level that he can put in one or two years and get the subjects to apply for university.

Can he add a Grade 2 class just to get an extra ballet class (or if he gets moved up in February, keep one of his Grade 3 classes)?

Will he take RAD exams? My dd does private lessons for a couple months a year to prepare for exams.

 

I would look into the jazz and modern. At our studio they are required at a certain grade (intermediate) and STRONGLY encouraged starting at Grade 3.

Edited December 4, 2016 by kitten18

[nobeatenpath]

Thanks everyone for the great input - I was going to contact the Royal Ballet school and what I have read here has confirmed it.

Kitten 18 he is currently doing Grade 2 as well, except where it overlaps with Grade 3. Still means he is only doing 6 hours a week. I have tried, and failed, to get him to try jazz and modern ... he is stubborn!

[cuckoomamma]

Repetition with correction is key.  He needs to be taking at least 4 1.5 hour ballet classes/week.  He is definitely not too old.  As someone else mentioned, boys have a different trajectory.  

 

Even if he can't attend, if he has the ability to audition for summer intensives, it is worth the experience.

 

Having patience with growth spurts and learning self care is part of the discipline that accompanies studying ballet and is one of the lifelong benefits even if your dancer doesn't go on to be a professional.

 

While more ballet at the current school is preferable, it sounds as if you may need to add privates or see if another family (like the family of that girl) is interested in semi-privates.

 

It's very important for dancers to have a Plan B.  A career-ending injury is one moment away.

 

[GinaPagnato]

This is where it is so helpful for him to be evaluated by teachers and have them direct his path. Mom can then be the cheerleader, wallet, and consoler when things don't go his way. Where you "fail" to get him to try other genres of dance, a teacher can tell him he must do them for XYZ reasons (enhanced technique/strengthening/being well-rounded, etc.).

 

If you can find a teacher or studio that takes an interest in him and his passion, then you can get behind their recommendations and just deal with being a dance mom.  ;)

[ErinE]

 

We will be speaking to his school about his ambitions and potential extra classes but at the moment the only extras at his grade level (and he has already skipped one grade and will probably skip another in February) are private lessons (which we are considering but he really gets a lot out of having others in the room with him) or modern/jazz (which he has no interest in). Also there is only so much he can do, technique-wise, until he is older and stronger - boys are different than girls in that regard. We are investigating another school which has even more of a 'technical' focus than his school which has some technique but is very 'performance' focused, if that makes sense. There are a lot of ballet schools here in Istanbul but unfortunately most are very geared towards concerts rather than learning formal technique.

 

Don't confuse skill with technique. A ballet dancer can always take more technique classes. There's a reason professional dancers take technique classes every day. A person can point her toe and I can tell if she's a skilled ballet dancer or one with only a few years. An experienced ballet dancer shows the movement of every bone in his foot when he points. It is gorgeous and requires years of training.

 

If he wants more training and is passionate about ballet, I would move him to a technical school. Ballet is rigorous and unique in its training. He should be schooled with an emphasis on correct technique over gaining skills.

Edited December 4, 2016 by ErinE

[Storygirl]

I agree with the previous posters. DD14 is a serious ballet student with hopes of a possible professional career, so ballet training is a part of daily life at our house.

 

It's sometimes difficult to get enough classes at a proper level when you live somewhere that does not have a pre-professional ballet studio. Three classes a week is not horrible. I've heard of situations where students can only get an hour of ballet per week. Does your studio offer more hours at higher levels? Perhaps once he moves up, he will be able to get more hours.

 

As far as jazz and modern .... yes, he should take them. Very few ballet companies nowadays do only classical ballet. Most do some contemporary work and so look for dancers who have that training.

 

Can you arrange for a meeting at his ballet studio? He may listen more if that advice comes from a teacher instead of a parent. But you should have an idea yourself about what advice they would give him. We used to attend a studio where the director did not like jazz (though she had a jazz teacher on staff) and didn't think that a professional career was worth pursuing, because of the low income. And she would tell students and parents those things. If your teachers have that perspective, it would backfire for him to talk to them.

 

People can definitely have physical barriers that can prevent them from pursuing a career as a dancer. But until he has his adult body, you won't know how things will turn out. If he can work on stretching (under supervision from someone who can train him to do it properly), it will make a difference. Can he take Pilates?

 

Even if he trains vigorously but does not end up with a career in dance, the benefits of the exercise and the discipline that he will learn will be lifelong. If he loves ballet, let him keep at it, as long as your family can afford it and find the time. If he tires of it and wants to pursue another interest, he will let you know.

 

And yes, boys can start later and still succeed. One of the things you could consider is the possibility of studying ballet in college, which gives him four extra years to mature and develop his skills. There are pros and cons to that, but it is an option.

[ErinE]

I always need to emphasize that professional =/= only ballet. I was a professional dancer for a few years, but never part of a ballet company. I once spent a long afternoon with a ballet school director. She told me that her dance director told her to give up ballet because she had the wrong feet and shape. We wondered over the many opportunities now available. Ballet is helpful and actually critical for modern dance troupes, but there's a whole world of styles available for talented dancers.

Edited December 4, 2016 by ErinE

[amsunshine]

I didn't see this mentioned yet -- but you may want to join the Ballet Talk for Dancers forum:  http://dancers.invisionzone.com/  Lots of great information there with experienced, professional dance moderators.

 

My older dd, who is 15 and would love to dance professionally at least a couple years before she goes on to a non-dancing career, now dances 6 days per week for a total of approx 20 hours per week, not including rehearsals.  I agree with previous posters that your ds needs to ramp up his days and hours per week.  Watch out for growth spurts, though, which might require a temporary cut back in hours.  Experienced teachers will be able to recognize and accomodate for things like that.

[Farrar]

No particular advice... I have a ds12 who is also hoping for a ballet career and also has various limitations, like anyone would (for him, tight hamstrings and potentially not the right build... we'll have to see... he's almost finally able to do the splits though). He's at a great studio and it moves slowly compared to others (we haven't seen that as an issue at all though - every kid in their senior class for the last several years has either gotten a dance scholarship or gone into a young company or good training program) - but he does 5 classes a week, so 3 seems like too few.

 

Because of where we live, he's also had a chance to dance as a super in some cool productions - with the Royal Ballet, with ABT... If you don't live somewhere with a world class performance venue though, I don't know if you can get those opportunities...

Edited December 5, 2016 by Farrar

[redsquirrel]

He's going to need to find a place with more boys. It doesn't have to be all year long, but you can look for a summer intensive, if they have those where you are.  At his age he can start learning partnering basics. He can't lift yet, he needs to get older and bigger, but he can start to learn supported pirouettes and other non lifting moves.  Only the biggest schools have enough boys to field a partnering class year round. 

 

My son is now 16 and dances at a pre professional school, but has no desire to be a professional dancer, or rather, he has no desire to put off college. The professional dancers we have seen put off college until their late 20s at least. My son doesn't want to do that, so it is assumed he isn't going to be a professional dancer. He auditioned for and got into a very good residential summer intensive where he got to partner for 4 hours a day. At the residential professional schools, where he has friends, the boys focus on partnering more than anything else. It's all about lifting the girls.

 

Again, at 12, it's not as big a focus, but it's coming. You should be looking for opportunities for him to partner as much as possible as he gets older and stronger.

 

And he hasn't started late.  He's exactly the age that dance schools commonly get very motivated dancers, both male and female. It is super common to have 11-13 year old kids show up very excited and wanting to accomplish a lot quickly. My sons' school always has at least one 11-13 year old boy show up almost every year. We just got a new boy and he is 12.  Misty Copeland didn't dance until she was 13. Now, she was also a prodigy who was winning awards soon after, but the thing is, that 12 isn't too late.

 

I assume he has seen the movie "First Position"?  There are some very inspiring boys in that movie.

[nobeatenpath]

He's going to need to find a place with more boys. It doesn't have to be all year long, but you can look for a summer intensive, if they have those where you are.  At his age he can start learning partnering basics. He can't lift yet, he needs to get older and bigger, but he can start to learn supported pirouettes and other non lifting moves.  Only the biggest schools have enough boys to field a partnering class year round.

 

 

We would love to but even in our huge city it is super rare - the culture here is just not one where boys do ballet. But we are looking. Luckily there are four male teachers at his school, and he is being given specific teaching in male dancing.

 

 

You should be looking for opportunities for him to partner as much as possible as he gets older and stronger.

 

 

We are looking at making sure our next move is to somewhere this is possible - hopefully the UK, France or Germany, and somewhere with strong ballet classes. He will be 14 then so we want him to have a solid foundation now.

 

Again, thanks everyone for all your advice. It is really helpful, and has solidified a lot of our thinking.

[redsquirrel]

We would love to but even in our huge city it is super rare - the culture here is just not one where boys do ballet. But we are looking. Luckily there are four male teachers at his school, and he is being given specific teaching in male dancing.

 

 

We are looking at making sure our next move is to somewhere this is possible - hopefully the UK, France or Germany, and somewhere with strong ballet classes. He will be 14 then so we want him to have a solid foundation now.

 

Again, thanks everyone for all your advice. It is really helpful, and has solidified a lot of our thinking.

 

His teachers must be able to teach partnering.  Even at my son's school, that only has a handful of boys...only two at his level, they still have partnering class.  When my son was still smaller than all the girls, the teacher just had the girls lift the boys!  It was a great teaching method. It was important for the boys to know what it feels like to be lifted, to have to trust your partner, how easy it is for the person doing the lifting to accidentally hurt the dancer he or she is lifting etc.  It also gave the girls some much needed upper body conditioning. 

 

So, you might want to talk to one of the teachers about the feasibility of doing some partnering instruction. In my son's school it is part of a regular conditioning class that all the company dancers take, but the teacher will usually toss in some specific partnering work. When they have more boys they do more.

 

FWIW, the girls are usually also hungry for partnering classes. They have to learn to do it also and having that experience gives a young female dancer and extra edge.

[Farrar]

Ds is 12... he'll have partnering next year as part of his courses, assuming he advances his level at the end of the year. One of the supers things he did involved partnering. I thought it was a good experience for him. I have the impression from his teachers that it will be more important in a few years than it is now.