Science suggestions

[mamashark]

For my 8yo third grader - I'm kind of floundering in science and not doing much. I'm justifying it at the moment by lots of outside time and free choice reading from our science library, and making sure to integrate science into some of her essay assignments. We were going to do Elemental Science, Chemistry, this year and while we did get some of it completed, she never liked doing any of it, complained about the reading assignments (which is unusual, she loves reading), and so I finally kind of let it die. I feel like science is an area she would thrive in, if given half a chance, but I obviously didn't choose something that worked for her. 

 

For reference, she is thriving in Beast 3 and MCT Town level. History is a state study project where she'll research the state and write a essay about the state. She usually includes some science in this as well; for example, Oklahoma she wrote about tornadoes and Missouri she wrote about caves.

 

She has no particular guiding interest and seems to shift around a lot in what she picks up to read about. I'd like something that allows her to delve deeply into a subject without me having to do all the prep work to pull resources and put them together in an organized manner. something that's pretty simple for her to do self-paced/self-guided, but that we can have interesting discussions about as well. 

What do you use that you like?

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Have you looked at Mystery Science?

The content doesn't have a lot of depth, but it is presented in a fun way (videos + hands-on) and may springboard to something more.

[EndOfOrdinary]

From the get-go, my son has never been STEM. He has always leaned to the humanities. So if you have a STEM kiddo, you might want to take a more direct approach.

 

We did a lot of documentaries with short-ish narrations and summaries. Ds had to keep a journal of what he watched and the summaries so connections could be made. It did not take too long before he discovered a focus for a couple of months. We would then check out a nice stack of library books. Pinterest, YouTube, and Google helped me find simple observation style "labs." He loves memory work, so I would find foundational things to memorize (Newton's laws, constellations, Periodic Table of Elements, taxonomy branches, characteristics of life, ect.) When he exhausted that focus, he would bounce about for a bit until he found another. It was very interest led. In general, the goal was to give him a broad understanding of how cool science and the world was. Nothing needs to be specific at that age. Just allow her to explore all that is out there so she can be excited about it.

[Jackie]

Some things that my science-obsessed 6yo has enjoyed:

 

- Thames and Kosmos kits

- The Happy Scientist videos

- Crash Course Kids (these are pretty basic, so we have moved on to the regular Crash Course, which move FAST)

- Ellen McHenry units (The Elements and Botany, so far)

- Lego Education kits

- Dash and Dot robots for programming

- documentaries on Netflix

- The Private Eye (which incorporates art and language skills, bonus!)

- library books, including biographies of scientists

[arliemaria]

From the get-go, my son has never been STEM. He has always leaned to the humanities. So if you have a STEM kiddo, you might want to take a more direct approach.

 

We did a lot of documentaries with short-ish narrations and summaries. Ds had to keep a journal of what he watched and the summaries so connections could be made. It did not take too long before he discovered a focus for a couple of months. We would then check out a nice stack of library books. Pinterest, YouTube, and Google helped me find simple observation style "labs." He loves memory work, so I would find foundational things to memorize (Newton's laws, constellations, Periodic Table of Elements, taxonomy branches, characteristics of life, ect.) When he exhausted that focus, he would bounce about for a bit until he found another. It was very interest led. In general, the goal was to give him a broad understanding of how cool science and the world was. Nothing needs to be specific at that age. Just allow her to explore all that is out there so she can be excited about it.

 

Could you describe this a bit more?  I think Robby would love to do this.  He is not reading yet, but remembers so much!  Currently he does vocabulary and recitation questions from Memoria Press. 

[Incognito]

Moving Beyond the Page is an option to check out.  

[mamashark]

Moving Beyond the Page is an option to check out.  

 

Wow, this is an expensive option! I only took a few minutes to look at it, I'd have to look further, but my initial concern would be figuring out placement. Reading and writing ability seem to be the guideposts, and her writing output is not at her comprehension level, though I expect her to be able to write a 5 paragraph essay by the end of the school year. I'll have to look into it more to see if it would work for us.

 

Yesterday I took advice from Jackie and allowed her to choose a topic of Crash Course Kids to watch, and after she wrote a summary of what she learned, she had to write one question she still had. She wants to know where the sun gets its energy. 

[Guest]

Let her read read read and watch lots of documentaries...and participate in ANY active thing you can find and afford that she is interested in, science-wise (animals presentations, robotics club...whatever you can find in your community...and I'd *still* say this is optional in elementary, even for a gifted student with scientific proclivities. Kids are still kids ykwim?).

 

I'm just going to be blunt about it. You are not going to find an elementary program that will be satisfactory for a gifted kid (or any kid tbh). Even things marketed as for gifted kids are chock-full of inane busywork.

 

In 2nd, DS went through Singapore science 7 (no labs) and we did the structured questions aloud. This was really great "science communication" practice, for lack of a better phrase, and I recommend it for that reason, if nothing else. HOWEVER, he already knew most of the information from his own piece-meal, meandering reading/watching of other things, just not how to talk about it.

 

After that experience I resolved to stop even looking at science curricula. Now we just keep stocked up on science materials. I asked my SIL for her college textbooks b/c she was a science major.  I pick up interesting books about science, and any kind of trade book  whenever I can and I feel like it. He watches lots of documentaries.

 

Really, just having good, varied stuff at all levels to read, making reading throughout the day habitual and/or compulsory, and talk-talk-talking up a storm [NOT WRITING!] has been the ticket around here. This is as true for my gifted kid, as my not-gifted kid.

Edited November 22, 2016 by OKBud

[mamashark]

This is helpful because it's pretty much what we already do, so hearing it as a recommendation is helpful! We have a collection of science books on various topics and she picks them to read more often than any other random book on the bookshelf (except for her novels). I was reading a book of science questions and answers to my 5 year old last night and my 8 year old interrupted after each question and gave the answer. I need to pick stuff for her to watch more often, and I'll watch for experiences that I can involve her in. Last summer she participated in a week-long science camp that she had a lot of fun with. 

 

I hate the busy work in so many curricula options. I think that's why she loves MCT materials so much, she sees the purpose in everything she's asked to do. Part of my issue is that I'm still second guessing what she can do. I When I looked at Ceasar's English over the summer, I was convinced that we would take 2 years to complete it. I decided ahead of time that I would take it slow and steady and help her really absorb the words. Yeah. She is doing a chapter a week and knows the words cold at the end of each week. She wasn't happy when I told her we were not doing a new chapter this week because of Thanksgiving. 

 

She's not feeling well this morning, so it is a good day for a documentary I think... off to find something about the sun that will answer her question from yesterday.

 

 

Let her read read read and watch lots of documentaries...and participate in ANY active thing you can find and afford that she is interested in, science-wise (animals presentations, robotics club...whatever you can find in your community...and I'd *still* say this is optional in elementary, even for a gifted student with scientific proclivities. Kids are still kids ykwim?).

 

I'm just going to be blunt about it. You are not going to find an elementary program that will be satisfactory for a gifted kid (or any kid tbh). Even things marketed as for gifted kids are chock-full of inane busywork.

 

In 2nd, DS went through Singapore science 7 (no labs) and we did the structured questions aloud. This was really great "science communication" practice, for lack of a better phrase, and I recommend it for that reason, if nothing else. HOWEVER, he already knew most of the information from his own piece-meal, meandering reading/watching of other things, just not how to talk about it.

 

After that experience I resolved to stop even looking at science curricula. Now we just keep stocked up on science materials. I asked my SIL for her college textbooks b/c she was a science major.  I pick up interesting books about science, and any kind of trade book  whenever I can and I feel like it. He watches lots of documentaries.

 

Really, just having good, varied stuff at all levels to read, making reading throughout the day habitual and/or compulsory, and talk-talk-talking up a storm [NOT WRITING!] has been the ticket around here. This is as true for my gifted kid, as my not-gifted kid.

 

[Guest]

Yeah, in Science and History I think you really have to divorce them from skill subjects (especially writing) in your own mind, especially for kids like this.

 

If she has a burning desire to learn how to __do__ something (sex finches, do ecology, build a computer, whatever), you'll know lol :laugh: 

 

And then when they do do it, have them do real things. That's the biggest difference in my kids. The one wants to PLAY at things....he's the one to do like a Magic Schoolbus science kit. The other wants to know as much as possible about something first, and only do the actual thing at an adult expert level (or as close as he can get).

[Jackie]

Wow, this is an expensive option! I only took a few minutes to look at it, I'd have to look further, but my initial concern would be figuring out placement. Reading and writing ability seem to be the guideposts, and her writing output is not at her comprehension level, though I expect her to be able to write a 5 paragraph essay by the end of the school year. I'll have to look into it more to see if it would work for us.

 

Yesterday I took advice from Jackie and allowed her to choose a topic of Crash Course Kids to watch, and after she wrote a summary of what she learned, she had to write one question she still had. She wants to know where the sun gets its energy.

This is the problem we had with MBtP, and it's absolute failure for us is what got me to stop trying grade leveled materials. We tried the 5-7 level when DD was 4. The content was way below where she was, yet the handwritten output way above her. Looking at a friend's copies, that was going to be true for several levels further.

 

The regular Crash Course has ten videos in their Big History section. Probably 30%+ went right over my kid's head, but that still had her getting a lot out of it. Including some information on where the sun gets its energy :)

[mamashark]

This is the problem we had with MBtP, and it's absolute failure for us is what got me to stop trying grade leveled materials. We tried the 5-7 level when DD was 4. The content was way below where she was, yet the handwritten output way above her. Looking at a friend's copies, that was going to be true for several levels further.

 

The regular Crash Course has ten videos in their Big History section. Probably 30%+ went right over my kid's head, but that still had her getting a lot out of it. Including some information on where the sun gets its energy :)

Yes this is one of the videos we watched this morning! She complained about the video editing out normal pauses in speech but I suspect it was her not feeling well that made it annoying to her and it did answer her questions.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jackie]

I hate the busy work in so many curricula options. I think that's why she loves MCT materials so much, she sees the purpose in everything she's asked to do. Part of my issue is that I'm still second guessing what she can do. I When I looked at Ceasar's English over the summer, I was convinced that we would take 2 years to complete it. I decided ahead of time that I would take it slow and steady and help her really absorb the words. Yeah. She is doing a chapter a week and knows the words cold at the end of each week. She wasn't happy when I told her we were not doing a new chapter this week because of Thanksgiving.

 

I hear you. Finding the correct level of material for DD is probably the single hardest part of homeschooling her. When CE arrived last summer, I thought there was absolutely no way she would handle the pace or have enough interest. I showed it to her just in case I was wrong and she's been flying through since. She's super excited when she runs across a "Michael Clay Thompson word!" in any other context.

 

I've had similar experiences with introducing her to MOOCs, Great Courses, science materials, history materials, and even board games. I feel like I'm constantly underestimating her, then occasionally run into a wall on something I assumed she could do.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Could you describe this a bit more? I think Robby would love to do this. He is not reading yet, but remembers so much! Currently he does vocabulary and recitation questions from Memoria Press.

We did a lot of lists. Google and Pinterest are great ones for quick lists. When he was interested in Physics Ds memorized Newton's Laws of Thermodynamics, a timeline of great physics discoveries, what fifteen famous physicists are known for, and 7 (IIRC?) basic formulas and a very quick reasoning behind them. The formulas were ones like Force = Mass x Acceleration. His exlanation would be very simplified. How much something hurts depends on how much it stuff is in it and how fast it is going. It was not a very specific thing. It was more that he generally could explain.

 

These then came up again and again as we would read or watch videos. Ds would get excited because he had heard or someone or knew about a principle they were talking about.

 

Does that help? Sort of like how many families learn classical music or famous paintings. We just expanded to bones of the body, constellations, Dalton's postulates, drawing chemical compounds for salt, sugar, alcohol. Nothing crazy, but for Ds it was a lot of fun.

[mamashark]

I hear you. Finding the correct level of material for DD is probably the single hardest part of homeschooling her. When CE arrived last summer, I thought there was absolutely no way she would handle the pace or have enough interest. I showed it to her just in case I was wrong and she's been flying through since. She's super excited when she runs across a "Michael Clay Thompson word!" in any other context.

 

I've had similar experiences with introducing her to MOOCs, Great Courses, science materials, history materials, and even board games. I feel like I'm constantly underestimating her, then occasionally run into a wall on something I assumed she could do.

 

So here's a question - I've always assumed that part of my problem in underestimating her is that I have no test results that give me an idea of where she is intellectually - whether grade level testing or IQ. We had an IQ test a few years ago but it was inaccurate for several reasons and the guy who administered it was an idiot. Frustrating waste of money!!!  I've also seen so many bits of advice on here that a number doesn't make a difference, that you just follow where your kid leads and on you will go. So how do you figure out what to introduce your kid to, where do you open doors that you wouldn't normally open for a typical kid, when you feel like you are shooting in the dark? I don't have the money for another psych workup, so I often feel like I'm floundering. 

[Jackie]

So here's a question - I've always assumed that part of my problem in underestimating her is that I have no test results that give me an idea of where she is intellectually - whether grade level testing or IQ. We had an IQ test a few years ago but it was inaccurate for several reasons and the guy who administered it was an idiot. Frustrating waste of money!!! I've also seen so many bits of advice on here that a number doesn't make a difference, that you just follow where your kid leads and on you will go. So how do you figure out what to introduce your kid to, where do you open doors that you wouldn't normally open for a typical kid, when you feel like you are shooting in the dark? I don't have the money for another psych workup, so I often feel like I'm floundering.

We have no psych testing. I gave her the DORA (language arts test) around her fifth birthday and it showed her many grade levels above my estimates. Around her sixth birthday, I had her do ITBS two grade levels above her age-grade and she maxed out the language arts. I expected her to do well, but not that well. So I understand the advice, but the standardized testing has been a help for my mindset. We will do psych testing when she's a bit older because I suspect some mild 2e, and because I wonder just how much I'm underestimating her.

 

As for introducing topics, I've learned to start with free resources whenever possible. Then it doesn't feel wasteful if it's a complete and total miss. That's where the MOOCs, Great Courses (from the library), and YouTube channels come in, as well as local free events. When she shows enough interest in the free stuff, then I'll figure out what's out there and how much to spend. I use very little "curriculum" (MCT and Beast are about it for standard stuff) because it's so hard to fit. I use hands-on when possible because even if it's not a perfect fit for level, she enjoys the hands on.

 

We take advantage of local stuff, and I try to remember she's not quite the typical kid - she'll spend hours at art museums, sit perfectly still through long concerts, loves opera and Shakespeare plays... so I try to go beyond the normal "for kids" stuff. I could probably try lectures at the local university, but I'll have to think on that one. We spend far more money on art supplies and a variety of lessons (gymnastics, circus arts, nature classes, piano) than on anything traditionally academic.

 

Some of it is just letting her know something exists. She loves Spanish and is working towards fluency. She was fascinated when she first discovered languages with different alphabets from ours and is determined to learn at least one of them. So it wasn't a stretch to offer a MOOC for Intro to Linguistics. Similarly, I've just skimmed through the list of topics on Coursera with her. We once looked through a list of majors at the local college together just so she could have some idea of what exists, and I could gauge what general topics she showed interest in that I might not have thought of (everything not math, so it didn't exactly narrow anything down, lol).

 

It's basically throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. And remembering that she doesn't need to even understand it all if she's enjoying herself.

[Incognito]

This is the problem we had with MBtP, and it's absolute failure for us is what got me to stop trying grade leveled materials. We tried the 5-7 level when DD was 4. The content was way below where she was, yet the handwritten output way above her. Looking at a friend's copies, that was going to be true for several levels further.

 

The regular Crash Course has ten videos in their Big History section. Probably 30%+ went right over my kid's head, but that still had her getting a lot out of it. Including some information on where the sun gets its energy :)

 

 

Wow, this is an expensive option! I only took a few minutes to look at it, I'd have to look further, but my initial concern would be figuring out placement. Reading and writing ability seem to be the guideposts, and her writing output is not at her comprehension level, though I expect her to be able to write a 5 paragraph essay by the end of the school year. I'll have to look into it more to see if it would work for us.

 

Yesterday I took advice from Jackie and allowed her to choose a topic of Crash Course Kids to watch, and after she wrote a summary of what she learned, she had to write one question she still had. She wants to know where the sun gets its energy. 

 

Yes, it is expensive.  I bought some used and think they are neat.  Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding is also good (better, perhaps), but it is work to structure it and plan.  MBtP takes very little thought/planning to implement decently.

 

As far as writing ability and matching age, I just go with a higher age bracket and don't expect things to be written but discussed.  A science curriculum isn't necessary, but if someone with an advanced and connection-making bright child wants one, I think MBtP is a lot better than many texts and other curricula I've seen.  

[visitor]

We love Singapore Science (My pals are here) and Real Science 4 kids . My boys also love to read Science books by them selve. Watching Magic School bus is also great.

[mamashark]

Ok so here is a question about a science curriculum. She asked why we can't live on other planets after learning that one of Saturn's moons supports life. A unit study to find out what is required to support life, how that may be different from us being able to live there, and comparing planets from that perspective would be right up her alley. Only I don't understand enough of what I just described to be of any help.

 

It seems like a lot of elementary stuff is gimmicky, watch this happen, wow isn't it cool that's science! Is there something maybe at the middle school level or higher that gives purpose to learning science beyond the gimmicky stuff?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EndOfOrdinary]

There is an entire Great Course on ExoPlanets. I started outsourcing-ish when Ds was about 8 because I knew nothing about all the Humanities subjects he wanted to study. He was too young to just hand it off, so we watched and learned together. Great Courses saved my behind!

[8filltheheart]

For my 8yo third grader - I'm kind of floundering in science and not doing much. I'm justifying it at the moment by lots of outside time and free choice reading from our science library, and making sure to integrate science into some of her essay assignments. We were going to do Elemental Science, Chemistry, this year and while we did get some of it completed, she never liked doing any of it, complained about the reading assignments (which is unusual, she loves reading), and so I finally kind of let it die. I feel like science is an area she would thrive in, if given half a chance, but I obviously didn't choose something that worked for her. 

 

For reference, she is thriving in Beast 3 and MCT Town level. History is a state study project where she'll research the state and write a essay about the state. She usually includes some science in this as well; for example, Oklahoma she wrote about tornadoes and Missouri she wrote about caves.

 

She has no particular guiding interest and seems to shift around a lot in what she picks up to read about. I'd like something that allows her to delve deeply into a subject without me having to do all the prep work to pull resources and put them together in an organized manner. something that's pretty simple for her to do self-paced/self-guided, but that we can have interesting discussions about as well. 

What do you use that you like?

 

We don't do formal science until 8th grade.  My kids just read various whole books on science throughout elementary and early middle school.  I have graduated a chemical engineer, an Allied Health professional, and a physics major.  ;)  Science is purely interest driven until 8th or 9th grade (depends on the child and what they want to do.)  It has not hampered their understanding of science at all.

[Tumbatoo]

My Dd who is also doing well in BA and MCT Town is doing NOEO Biology 2 this year. I would like there to be a few more experiments, but the info is at a good level and gives room to explore further on your own. She tends to take the encyclopedia in her room for bedtime reading though, so we'll probably do Biology, Chemistry and Physics in 2 years instead of 3.

[mamashark]

Just a quick update - while I loved the look of the Great Courses, the price and inability to get them at the library right now puts it on the shelf for the time... I stumbled across Ellen McHenry's stuff and took a chance on the Elements (I let dd choose between a couple). She blew through the first 2 chapters in the past week, spends her spare time looking up elements on an interactive periodic table website, and we had an entire dinner conversation trying to figure out which element(s) we could live without. The irony is this is after shelving elemental chemistry earlier in the year after she was literally bored to tears with it. She's loving this, learning a lot, and it was inexpensive and easy to download.

[arliemaria]

Just a quick update - while I loved the look of the Great Courses, the price and inability to get them at the library right now puts it on the shelf for the time... I stumbled across Ellen McHenry's stuff and took a chance on the Elements (I let dd choose between a couple). She blew through the first 2 chapters in the past week, spends her spare time looking up elements on an interactive periodic table website, and we had an entire dinner conversation trying to figure out which element(s) we could live without. The irony is this is after shelving elemental chemistry earlier in the year after she was literally bored to tears with it. She's loving this, learning a lot, and it was inexpensive and easy to download.

 

I just got the Ellen McHenry's Carbon Chemistry as a Black Friday Freebie.  This makes me excited to go ahead and print this for our next term.  Robby is very curious about neo newtonian fluids at the moment.  His comment at dinner last night was a question about my blue hubbard squash soup and whether or not it was a neo newtonian fluid because it was thick and had a low viscosity.  I love your dinner discussion about which elements you could live without.  Such fun kids!