FYI: Davidson Academy OHS, free for NV, tuition for OOS (updated tuition info)

[quark]

Sorry, on my phone with limited text editing support so I hope this works:

 

Which universities, among the best in the US, accept students for a second bachelor degree?

 

https://www.quora.com/Which-universities-among-the-best-in-the-US-accept-students-for-a-second-bachelor-degree?srid=uAoND&share=55d1edfc

[SeaConquest]

To my knowledge, some universities allow 2nd baccalaureate degrees only in the case of career changers, again like in nursing or other healthcare fields. Not sure about something like engineering. I will (hopefully) pursue a second baccalaureate degree at SDSU, but the BSN is the only second bachelor's that they allow.

Edited February 7, 2017 by SeaConquest

[TerriM]

I am one of those people who won't sleep well at night if I don't disclose info. :)

 

Please research carefully is all I can say. It could become an issue once SSN is requested during registration. Second degrees can also impact finaid. I have not researched details thoroughly.

 

Yeah... :)  I just don't remember being asked if I already had a degree on my college apps.  I know that's a long time ago, but.....

 

It *does* make sense that a degree would impact finaid.

[TerriM]

It seems to me to be reasonable to apply to a top-tier college and argue that the lower-level college's degree was really just your High school degree.  I just don't see a college such as Caltech or MIT, for example, caring that anyone got an associates degree, and also probably being grateful that the kid delayed leaving home for college until 18.  

[TerriM]

http://mitadmissions.org/apply/transfer/faqs

 

 

Question: I have been attending college during high school. Should I apply as a transfer?

Answer: The transfer process is intended for students who have finished high school and completed at least one year of college. If you are still in high school, you are considered a freshman applicant regardless of how many classes you may have taken at the university level.

 

Question: I already have a bachelor’s degree from another institution. Can I apply as a transfer student?

Answer: No. MIT does not award second bachelor’s degrees. We encourage you to apply to MIT as a graduate student.

 

 

I kind of see the two answers as contradictory though....

 

And then there's this:

 

http://ask.mitadmissions.org/customer/en/portal/articles/1556463-dual-enrollment

 

Dual Enrollment

It's exciting that you're stretching your academic muscles and taking college-level courses! Well done!

Students who are participating in dual enrollment programs, or taking college-level courses while in high school, apply for freshman admission at MIT. If you apply to MIT while you are still in high school, you are considered a freshman applicant regardless of how many units of study you may have taken at the university level.  

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by tiuzzol2

[EndOfOrdinary]

Every Ivy and top tier (currently 9 schools total) we have talked to do not consider associates degrees or ANY community college credits. They have all said essentially the same thing: those look great to an admissions person, but will do nothing toward your degree here. We do not count them as anything other than college readiness.

 

ETA: Two Ivies went so far as to say that the majority of their applicants had an associates or were extremely close to finishing an associates. It was par for the course.

Edited February 7, 2017 by EndOfOrdinary

[Dmmetler]

What I've heard is the same thing (from state schools, mostly-the only Ivy DD would possibly be interested in for undergrad would be Cornell)-that getting tons of college credits, even an AA, would be just considered to be taking the "highest level of classes available", and is fairly common. And to not expect them to take any credits. About the only place she'd be considered a transfer would be in-state, where there's an articulation agreement. If she decides to go for a BS while in high school, she would do so in-state and we'd likely end up moving for her to complete it as a transfer student, but live at home.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by dmmetler

[TerriM]

Ok.... So does that leave us with this situation?

 

1.  Associates or Bachelors degrees awarded during high school don't affect entry to or Fin-aid for Top-tier colleges (and are considered normal).

 

2.  Associates or Bachelors degrees awarded during high school do affect entry and Fin-aid for middle and lower tier colleges.

[Dmmetler]

As I understand it, the big question is whether you transfer or come in as a freshman. If you come in as a transfer, you would not be eligible for freshman only scholarships (and most schools have more for freshmen than for transfer). Financial aid, as I understand it, has a set number of semesters of eligibility, so doing a first BA may eat up eligibility for financial aid, but students aren't eligible without a high school diploma or equivalency anyway, so DE usually wouldn't count. The same may apply to in-state grants-ours is capped at 24 credits of DE and 4 years for a BA. Once you have a BA you are no longer eligible.

[SeaConquest]

Ok.... So does that leave us with this situation?

 

1. Associates or Bachelors degrees awarded during high school don't affect entry to or Fin-aid for Top-tier colleges (and are considered normal).

 

2. Associates or Bachelors degrees awarded during high school do affect entry and Fin-aid for middle and lower tier colleges.

I think it would be wise to check with each college on your list to see what their policies are, just to be safe.

 

I think that, as long as you don't graduate the kid, you are fine for elite schools. Just know that those credits are unlikely to graduate you sooner. However, they may help you to accelerate through some pre-reqs. In some cases, this may not be wise. I wouldn't want to sub in Calc I at the CC for Calc I at MIT, ykwim?

 

For lower tier schools, the credits may help you graduate faster. Just check financial aid regs at that school.

[TerriM]

As I understand it, the big question is whether you transfer or come in as a freshman. If you come in as a transfer, you would not be eligible for freshman only scholarships (and most schools have more for freshmen than for transfer). Financial aid, as I understand it, has a set number of semesters of eligibility, so doing a first BA may eat up eligibility for financial aid, but students aren't eligible without a high school diploma or equivalency anyway, so DE usually wouldn't count. The same may apply to in-state grants-ours is capped at 24 credits of DE and 4 years for a BA. Once you have a BA you are no longer eligible.

 

That makes sense for a state school.

 

For some boarding-only colleges, they really want these kids to come in as "freshman" because there are rules that make it easier for new students to acclimate to the culture and get to know people.  For example, freshman must live on campus or in college-approved independent living groups, freshman seminars to get to know other new students, and freshman advisors who would meet more often than a transfer student.  It doesn't mean that the kid doesn't get transfer credit (which is a whole problem of its own), but that instead of coming in as a sophomore and graduating after 3 years without this orientation, you come in as a freshman, and graduate after 3 years.

[lewelma]

Students who are participating in dual enrollment programs, or taking college-level courses while in high school, apply for freshman admission at MIT. If you apply to MIT while you are still in high school, you are considered a freshman applicant regardless of how many units of study you may have taken at the university level. [/size]

As I understand it, the big question is whether you transfer or come in as a freshman. If you come in as a transfer, you would not be eligible for freshman only scholarships

[/size]

 

I'm coming at this sideways, but our experience might help a little bit. The IMO requires that students are still in high school in order to compete. It does not matter how many college credits you have apparently, rather it is if you are "enrolled" in university. So a kid last year got onto the team, but even though he was *attending* high school, he was "enrolled" in a degree bearing program at the university. He had taken a total of 5 university classes -- the number did not matter but how he was enrolled did. He could not compete. Learning about this, we have been in contact with the IMO team leader here about ds's university classes. The key is that he has to be taking courses for "personal interest" and NOT be "enrolled." What this means in practice is that 1) he has to reapply each TERM to take one or two classes. 2) He has to be in a non-degree bearing program (I've been triple checking this to make sure they don't muck it up). 3) He has not be 'accepted' into university meaning that he cannot take any class he wants, he is only allowed to take the class they have accepted him for.

 

Also of interest, it apparently does not matter that ds already has his NCEA level 3 certificate, (which is the equivalent of a USA high school diploma). The certificate gains him automatic "entrance" here into university into a degree bearing program if he chooses. But by doing the above 3 things and then having him continue to take high school courses, the IMO committee considers him a high school student rather than a university student.

 

Like Quark said, do your research!

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited February 7, 2017 by lewelma

[lewelma]

Also, apparently MIT will award credit for courses taken at other Universities once they verify that the course is of similar content to one that they teach.  You must have the textbook name, chapters covered, and syllabus from the term that you took the class.  So keep records!  We threw out the syllabus for last years course before we learned this. oops. 

[EndOfOrdinary]

The places we talked to cared about universities. They did not care about CC. Universities they wanted to check out and see about transfer. CC was just a little notch under "taken classes at higher level." The line seemed to be drawn at two year versus four year schools.

[quark]

I have heard about exceptions for CC credits. Unfortunately, this was through grapevine but both sources were reliable and I do not see any need for them to fudge details. College might make exceptions case by case. It sounds to me that if they really want a student, they might be willing to look at records of equivalency (echoing what Ruth said about syllabi, books etc) and either allow some credit or waive prereqs.

 

MIT apparently allows kids to take grad level classes without limiting when to take them. From a different source. Kids I know taking those grad level classes did AP and/or CC and/or uni when homeschooling high school.

 

Just some data points. I unfortunately cannot provide names of sources but wanted to add this info hoping that awareness can help with further research.

Edited February 10, 2017 by quark

[TerriM]

Also, apparently MIT will award credit for courses taken at other Universities once they verify that the course is of similar content to one that they teach.  You must have the textbook name, chapters covered, and syllabus from the term that you took the class.  So keep records!  We threw out the syllabus for last years course before we learned this. oops. 

 

Yeah..... but generally it'll take two semesters to count as one, and they're fairly picky.  I don't think I got any transfer credit at all from what i took at the state university.  So definitely don't assume that you're going to get much transfer credit.   :(   And if you do, it may be generic credit that counts as electives.  Generic credit is helpful for graduating early if your major doesn't have a lot of required classes or if you're double majoring with two majors that have a lot of overlap and you just need the extra credits.

 

However, I do believe that it makes for a good college application.

Edited February 10, 2017 by tiuzzol2

[lewelma]

Yeah..... but generally it'll take two semesters to count as one, and they're fairly picky.  I don't think I got any transfer credit at all from what i took at the state university.  So definitely don't assume that you're going to get much transfer credit.   :(   And if you do, it may be generic credit that counts as electives.  Generic credit is helpful for graduating early if your major doesn't have a lot of required classes or if you're double majoring with two majors that have a lot of overlap and you just need the extra credits.

 

However, I do believe that it makes for a good college application.

 

Thanks for the heads up! My assumption is that his second year linear algebra class would count as a 1st year class at MIT.  So yes, 2 semesters count for 1.  DS placed out of 1st semester linear algebra just because he was ds.  :001_smile: It took a 20 minute interview with the head of maths when ds was 13 to place him out of the first 5 math classes. Our local University is not MIT, but ds was also not 18.  If MIT cannot recognize what ds has already accomplished, then they don't deserve to education him. Just saying!

[Mike in SA]

Thanks for the heads up! My assumption is that his second year linear algebra class would count as a 1st year class at MIT.  So yes, 2 semesters count for 1.  DS placed out of 1st semester linear algebra just because he was ds.  :001_smile: It took a 20 minute interview with the head of maths when ds was 13 to place him out of the first 5 math classes. Our local University is not MIT, but ds was also not 18.  If MIT cannot recognize what ds has already accomplished, then they don't deserve to education him. Just saying!

 

They'll know.  It has much less to do with the time spent, and much more to do with the rigor / level attained.  Most linear algebra programs are ridiculously light and easy.  Very few are constructed to lead into formal abstract algebra.  That's why the second course is often needed, to bridge that gap in rigor.

[Butler]

I don't think that you should look at college classes taken in high school purely in a transfer light. Most of the time Ive seen them used as a placement tool instead. IMO this is the better use anyway as a student really should make use of the time in undergrad to accomplish other goals, especially so if the student is planning on grad school. A student that places out of many of the requisite undergrad classes has the opportunity to fill their schedules for the next 4 years with graduate level classes, but just as importantly they have opportunities for summer programs/research and making connections with professors (LORs are very important for grad school). This makes for a much stronger graduate application than the student who transferred in a lot of credit from classes taken in high school and then applies to grad schools 2 years later.

 

(To clarify, I'm talking about a student not receiving credit but being allowed to place into advanced levels. What I adamantly don't agree with are schools that require a student to repeat all the undergrad courses at their institution. That's a waste of time and does a disservice to the student. Also, I'm talking more about courses in the prospective student's major. General Ed courses generally should be transferred for credit so they can be done with but the major courses should be used for placement purposes)

Edited February 16, 2017 by Butler

[Mike in SA]

I don't think that you should look at college classes taken in high school purely in a transfer light. Most of the time Ive seen them used as a placement tool instead. IMO this is the better use anyway as a student really should make use of the time in undergrad to accomplish other goals

 

:hurray: Yes, yes, yes!