Jump to content

Menu

Language arts - what next? (Completely revised question)


Jackie
 Share

Recommended Posts

I think I now have a better idea of what I'm asking, so I'm completely rewriting my original rambling, completely unfocused question.

 

DD (6) loves things at that "just right" level of challenging but not too challenging. She loves language and most LA-related stuff comes easily to her, except handwriting, which is still a struggle. I'm rarely hitting that "just right" level lately and want suggestions.

 

Here's where we are:

* Vocabulary: We have a "just right" fit in Caesar's English.

 

* Handwriting: Still a struggle. She forgets formation of some letters. She does short copywork several times a week. She writes short notes to me for fun often. I'm assuming all I can really do here is keep up with copywork.

 

* Reading: She can read whatever is put in front of her. Comprehension is quite good with almost everything we've ever read. She prefers picture books or easy longer reads for her independent stuff. We have family read aloud time nightly, which she enjoys greatly. I'm not worried about moving her along in her own reading. Maybe some more challenging titles for family read aloud time? Suggestions?

 

* Writing/Composing: If I take dictation as she narrates, she's pretty good - very descriptive language, complex sentences. We did some prompts from Suppose the Wolf Were an Octopus a few months ago - I would give the prompt, she would talk her ideas out with me and I would form a simple outline of her ideas, then she'd type up a paragraph from the outline. They weren't amazing, but on target paragraphs, and she progressed to being able to write the oultine for herself. Paragraph Town had to be shelved because she was overwhelmed with how quickly it moved to multi-paragraph essays. She's doing NaNoWriMo with me scribing. I'm not sure where to go with this, and it's limited by slow handwriting and slow typing.

 

* Grammar: She loves grammar, and it's generally very easy for her. Grammar Town was mostly a flop, because so much of it was repetition of Island and she was frustrated with having so little new material. Do I move her on to Grammar Voyage? Is it all pretty much repeat again? Do I skip a level? Do I do something else? Do I just ignore grammar because even though she enjoys it, she really doesn't need any more of it now? Oh, and despite flying through MCT, she probably needs more work on basics like capitals and punctuation, which she often leaves out, but the workbooks I've shown her have been labelled "boring" or "babyish" so we just work on it as it comes up.

 

* Spelling: Mostly being ignored, and we're both fine with that. She's mostly a natural speller.

 

* Speaking: She loves public speaking, does well with it, and only wishes she had more opportunity for it.

 

Where from here? How to get a bit more challenge in literature and grammar? Where to go with writing?

Edited by Jackie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I'm not exactly where u r at, but here r some ideas.

 

For writing, we r using CAP's writing and rhetoric. We r in Fables now. We r really enjoying it. As with anything, I pick and choose what I want out of it.

 

If I had a 6 yo like yours, I would keep reading good literature books to her and play some LA games since she is flying through MCT. I think a friend of mine emailed me a thread on LA games . Would you like me to post it?

 

I know some people start studying Shakespeare as well. Did I read somewhere that you don't like Shakespeare? There's a book titled How to Teach Shakespeare to Children which may help in that department.

 

Don't have any other advice. I see BW in your siggie, I'm assuming you do poetry? :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Without digging myself, can you tell me if CAP W&R is secular?

 

I would love a link to a thread on LA games! We have a few, but I love games and I'm getting DD to love them, too!

 

I would also love any recs for "good literature books". Classics and "good books" weren't much a part of my life, so I truly don't know what is appropriate here. We've read E.B. White's books, Peter Pan, Alice in Wonderland, The Reluctant Dragon, and several others, but I don't know where to go next.

 

I hate Shakespeare. And Dickens. And most Old English. But DD loves it. She loved watching a play of Midsummer Night's Dream. I've bought tickets to Oliver for this winter, expect she will love it, and we'll read an adaptation beforehand. She reads lots of poetry, and says Emily Dickinson is her favorite. We don't get to poetry as often as I'd like, but it's something she's really drawn to, reads on her own, and she writes some poetry on her own.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I now have a better idea of what I'm asking, so I'm completely rewriting my original rambling, completely unfocused question.

 

DD (6) loves things at that "just right" level of challenging but not too challenging. She loves language and most LA-related stuff comes easily to her, except handwriting, which is still a struggle. I'm rarely hitting that "just right" level lately and want suggestions.

 

Here's where we are:

* Vocabulary: We have a "just right" fit in Caesar's English. Good!  You have at least one good fit, that's not nothing!

 

* Handwriting: Still a struggle. She forgets formation of some letters. She does short copywork several times a week. She writes short notes to me for fun often. I'm assuming all I can really do here is keep up with copywork.

 

Does she do a handwriting instruction book?  My almost 10 year old STILL does (along with KWT) because he still needs the fine motor work. We are still mostly focusing on the mechanics and only do copywork once a week.

 

* Reading: She can read whatever is put in front of her. Comprehension is quite good with almost everything we've ever read. She prefers picture books or easy longer reads for her independent stuff. We have family read aloud time nightly, which she enjoys greatly. I'm not worried about moving her along in her own reading. Maybe some more challenging titles for family read aloud time? Suggestions?

 

We chose books from Ambleside, the Mensa excellence in reading lists and Great Books AcademySome that we've really loved are Wind in the Willows, Robin Hood, Treasure Island, I'm blanking now but I'll try to come back with more of what we read around that age. Anne of Green Gables, The Secret Garden and Heidi would probably be good for read alouds!

 

 

* Writing/Composing: If I take dictation as she narrates, she's pretty good - very descriptive language, complex sentences. We did some prompts from Suppose the Wolf Were an Octopus a few months ago - I would give the prompt, she would talk her ideas out with me and I would form a simple outline of her ideas, then she'd type up a paragraph from the outline. They weren't amazing, but on target paragraphs, and she progressed to being able to write the oultine for herself. Paragraph Town had to be shelved because she was overwhelmed with how quickly it moved to multi-paragraph essays. She's doing NaNoWriMo with me scribing. I'm not sure where to go with this, and it's limited by slow handwriting and slow typing. 

 

I started with Partnership Writing from Bravewriter last year, and this year my DS is doing an afterschool creative writing program so we haven't done Faltering Ownership yet, but I have it.  I like the BW stuff because a gifted kid really has the freedom to make the projects their own. My guy claims to hate writing, but he loves freewrites, loves his after school programs and frequently writes his own comic strips. I think he knows I want him to like writing and he just can't give me the satisfaction. :glare:  :lol:   Anyways, BW is exactly right for us because it's so gentle but you can really go deep with it.

 

* Grammar: She loves grammar, and it's generally very easy for her. Grammar Town was mostly a flop, because so much of it was repetition of Island and she was frustrated with having so little new material. Do I move her on to Grammar Voyage? Is it all pretty much repeat again? Do I skip a level? Do I do something else? Do I just ignore grammar because even though she enjoys it, she really doesn't need any more of it now? Oh, and despite flying through MCT, she probably needs more work on basics like capitals and punctuation, which she often leaves out, but the workbooks I've shown her have been labelled "boring" or "babyish" so we just work on it as it comes up.

 

We had the same experience, loved Island, loved the story part of Grammar Town but hated the other books. (Aside from poetry.) WAY too much repetition. So what we did was take a break.  We skipped Caesar's English because DS was reading a ton and expanding his vocabulary through the classics. We totally skipped Voyage because I read it was even more repetition of the previous levels and neither DS or I could take it. I'm contemplating getting grammar of literature just for fun because we miss MCT. (Mud really made an impression on us both.  It was one of the more joyful parts of our homeschool journey.)  Long story short, my advice is to take a grammar break. I wouldn't scoot her along to Grammar of Lit because I don't think she will get much more out of it.  I don't think my DS will either but since he's had a break, it's a nice review, KWIM?

 

Another thing, if she's studying Latin, (I can't see your sig) you could definitely take a grammar break.  I just don't see the point of SO MUCH grammar with a gifted kid, especially if they lean more verbally gifted. I know she does Spanish, is there any way to amp that up?  My DS is VERY reluctant to restart Latin, much to my chagrin, so I'm just really laying on the foreign language.  He's more verbally gifted than mathy, and I've noticed he does better when our school days are language heavy. (Why oh why can't he just do Latin? :lol: )

 

* Spelling: Mostly being ignored, and we're both fine with that. She's mostly a natural speller. We dropped it around age 7.  It wasn't needed.  I wouldn't worry about it at all.

 

* Speaking: She loves public speaking, does well with it, and only wishes she had more opportunity for it. Would she be interested in theatre?  Just brainstorming....

 

Where from here? How to get a bit more challenge in literature and grammar? Where to go with writing?

 

In short, read the classics, ease up on the grammar (it's just probably not really needed at this juncture. Pick it up again in middle or high school just to refresh her, but I'm guessing she'll be fine without it. Just my 2 cents.) and personally, I'd try everything possible to keep writing fun.  If she likes to dictate stories to you, keep up with that!  It's a wonderful way for her to develop her writing voice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Without digging myself, can you tell me if CAP W&R is secular?

 

I would love a link to a thread on LA games! We have a few, but I love games and I'm getting DD to love them, too!

 

I would also love any recs for "good literature books". Classics and "good books" weren't much a part of my life, so I truly don't know what is appropriate here. We've read E.B. White's books, Peter Pan, Alice in Wonderland, The Reluctant Dragon, and several others, but I don't know where to go next.

 

I hate Shakespeare. And Dickens. And most Old English. But DD loves it. She loved watching a play of Midsummer Night's Dream. I've bought tickets to Oliver for this winter, expect she will love it, and we'll read an adaptation beforehand. She reads lots of poetry, and says Emily Dickinson is her favorite. We don't get to poetry as often as I'd like, but it's something she's really drawn to, reads on her own, and she writes some poetry on her own.

 

Honestly, keep doing whatever you are doing.  I made the mistake early of really wanting to stretch and challenge my DS and I agonized over what he should read and curricula.  If he was reading Dickinson for fun, I'd have been dancing in the streets!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as recs for good literature, check library websites for lists. Ours has several different ones with different focuses. If you combine lists from different libraries you should have a good long list. When I was a child my independent reading took off when my father would refuse to read more than one chapter a night, so I swiped the book to find out what happened next. Could you engineer such a situation? (I'm not sure if it was The Lord of the Rings or The Once and Future King for me, but I do remember it was a hard slog at first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding formation of letters, one idea is to 'write' the letter on her back with your finger. 

This method works with some children who struggle to form their letters correctly, even if they can read them correctly. You can make a game of it and do it to each other.

 

Another thought for handwriting issues is that sometimes young children just lack the muscle development in their hands and fingers.

Working regularly with playdoh or clay can help with this. Squish it, roll it, hide small things in it to find, poke holes with one finger etc.

 

Another strengthening exercise is squeezing a wet sponge. Does she like water play? Or maybe she could help wash the car?

Spray bottles are also good for building hand strength. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For handwriting, you might want to check out Handwriting without Tears if you haven't tried it yet.  They have suggestions about makign letters with dough, writing on a big chalkboard, and they way that they teach letters makes it unlikely that kids will flip them around.  I've got a kid with some motor issues, and at 10 now has great writing when they choose to (and it's always legible). 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In short, read the classics, ease up on the grammar (it's just probably not really needed at this juncture. Pick it up again in middle or high school just to refresh her, but I'm guessing she'll be fine without it. Just my 2 cents.) and personally, I'd try everything possible to keep writing fun.  If she likes to dictate stories to you, keep up with that!  It's a wonderful way for her to develop her writing voice.

 

 

We do some Brave Writer as well. We've done the JiD fairy tale project as an ongoing project with different tales. She's going to be dictating for NaNoWriMo again this year, so that will be an adventure.

 

No Latin for us. I asked her if she'd like to, and she thought I was insane for suggesting learning a language no one spoke. She's doing Homeschool Spanish Academy 3x a week and we're planning an immersion trip for late winter, so I think she's full up there, even if she does tell me I should up the HSA to daily.

 

 

Regarding formation of letters, one idea is to 'write' the letter on her back with your finger. 

This method works with some children who struggle to form their letters correctly, even if they can read them correctly. You can make a game of it and do it to each other.

 

Another thought for handwriting issues is that sometimes young children just lack the muscle development in their hands and fingers.

Working regularly with playdoh or clay can help with this. Squish it, roll it, hide small things in it to find, poke holes with one finger etc.

 

Another strengthening exercise is squeezing a wet sponge. Does she like water play? Or maybe she could help wash the car?

Spray bottles are also good for building hand strength.

 

My siblings and I used to write the letters on each other's backs as kids and then figure out what letter was written! I never thought of it actually being useful!

 

I think she has decent hand strength. She does a good bit of work on bars at gymnastics, and scurries up aerial silks (while my hands give up after a bit of silks).

 

  

For handwriting, you might want to check out Handwriting without Tears if you haven't tried it yet.  They have suggestions about makign letters with dough, writing on a big chalkboard, and they way that they teach letters makes it unlikely that kids will flip them around.  I've got a kid with some motor issues, and at 10 now has great writing when they choose to (and it's always legible).

 

She doesn't exactly flip letters. We switched her to cursive around her 5th birthday by mutual agreement. She has done books 1 and 2 of New American Cursive and did excellently with the books. She always knows the shape a letter is supposed to be, but forgets where the letter starts and what order or direction to make the strokes in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Without digging myself, can you tell me if CAP W&R is secular?

 

I would love a link to a thread on LA games! We have a few, but I love games and I'm getting DD to love them, too!

 

I would also love any recs for "good literature books". Classics and "good books" weren't much a part of my life, so I truly don't know what is appropriate here. We've read E.B. White's books, Peter Pan, Alice in Wonderland, The Reluctant Dragon, and several others, but I don't know where to go next.

 

I hate Shakespeare. And Dickens. And most Old English. But DD loves it. She loved watching a play of Midsummer Night's Dream. I've bought tickets to Oliver for this winter, expect she will love it, and we'll read an adaptation beforehand. She reads lots of poetry, and says Emily Dickinson is her favorite. We don't get to poetry as often as I'd like, but it's something she's really drawn to, reads on her own, and she writes some poetry on her own.

 

I don't know if CAP in particular is secular.  But I can say that so far their W&R Fables is secular.  I think there are going to be about 12 books in total in this line of progression, so I can't say if they all are going to be.  I believe CAP does Song School Spanish?  If I'm right, then that is secular.  I guess you'll have to ask someone who is further along in the W&R books. 

 

I'm sorry I misspoke about having a thread on LA games.  She told me that she thinks she put in "fun language arts" or "story telling" in the WTM forum.  or perhaps googled them. 

 

This is what she said that she will be doing:

 

" A storytelling or word game once a week.  Ideas I've collected so far:

    -Rory's Story cubes 

    -"Fortunately/Unfortunately," -- take turns telling a story alternating sentences starting with "Fortunately" and "Unfortunately"

   -Squiggle stories: I make a starter squiggle (gear, puzzle pieces, exploding lines, etc) on a piece of paper.  Child finishes the drawing and writes a story about it.

    -WordPlay Cafe activities

    -Boggle, Bananagrams, Hangman

    -Silly Sentences: Write words on popsicle sticks -- adjectives, nouns, and verbs.  Have student sort them by part of speech. Then choose one per category to make a sentence:  â€œSilly China sings.” or “Old baby dances.”

    -A storytelling card game I picked up in the Target dollar section recently

    -Directions game:  Draw a task from a hat, then write directions for how to do it.  (E.g. Explain in words how to draw a smiley face.)" 

 

I would add mad libs to the list. 

 

I'm getting my literature list from ambleside online or other moms on this forum.  Often I see threads asking "So, what is your 5th grader reading this year?"  or I've got my 4th grader reading this, this and this, is this enough?  :) 

 

I also get my list from Great Illustrated Classics.  http://www.hiddenstaircase.com/new/greatillustratedclassics2.html Truth be told, I often see these books either in the dollar store or at books sales. (I don't think I've paid more than $2 for them.) There's 20,000 League Under the Sea, Dorian Grey, Black Beauty, The Count of Monte Cristo, etc. 

 

I hope this helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

W&R isn't secular - there isn't a ton of Christian stuff in there, but it is an underlying assumption and I believe it comes out more clearly in some places.  I don't recall exactly, but we have done a couple of the levels now.  It is a GREAT way to get a reluctant writer writing, although I'm not sure a 6yo needs to be writing longer passages.

 

For finding good books, there are a lot of lists out there - Sonlight is Christian, but their sister company Bookshark isn't.  Try Bookshark's lists.  Or Sonlight's - it's usually quite clear which ones have heavy Christian content.  I chase rabbit trails on Amazon - if you go to the page of a book you like, check out the other recommended books.  I get lots of really interesting picture books from our library that way.  If you look up Newberry award winning books, or Caldecott winners, that is another starting point.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

I hate Shakespeare. And Dickens. And most Old English. 

 

Me too. Shakespearian plays should be watched, not read. Dickens is horrific (sorry to Dickens lovers). 

 

If your kid likes it and you don't, let it be independent or outsourced. Put it off until she's reading independently at Dickens' level and let her do a "book club" sort of thing with a Lit Major. Plus, a six-year-old's life experience makes French Revolution or England's Debtor's prisons a challenging read.

 

I'm going to second handwriting work rather than copywork. Letter formation in isolation to words. Spelling in invented sentences. My five-year-old has never done copywork, and his handwriting has been steadily improving. If you have to stick with copywork, make it the fun kind with several mistakes (spelling, grammar, punctuation) that she has to correct in the sentence she writes.

 

Personally, I think grammar is best learned in the context of a foreign language. So much of English feels more open to discussion when you can compare how two languages approach the same problem. Linguistics (particularly comparative linguistics) is also incredibly fascinating, but you're going to be hard-pressed to find an appropriate program for elementary, though you yourself may enjoy a MOOC. My linguistics professor in college was monolingual, so fluency in multiple languages isn't essential to understanding linguistics.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Me too. Shakespearian plays should be watched, not read. Dickens is horrific (sorry to Dickens lovers). 

 

If your kid likes it and you don't, let it be independent or outsourced. Put it off until she's reading independently at Dickens' level and let her do a "book club" sort of thing with a Lit Major. Plus, a six-year-old's life experience makes French Revolution or England's Debtor's prisons a challenging read.

 

I'm going to second handwriting work rather than copywork. Letter formation in isolation to words. Spelling in invented sentences. My five-year-old has never done copywork, and his handwriting has been steadily improving. If you have to stick with copywork, make it the fun kind with several mistakes (spelling, grammar, punctuation) that she has to correct in the sentence she writes.

 

Personally, I think grammar is best learned in the context of a foreign language. So much of English feels more open to discussion when you can compare how two languages approach the same problem. Linguistics (particularly comparative linguistics) is also incredibly fascinating, but you're going to be hard-pressed to find an appropriate program for elementary, though you yourself may enjoy a MOOC. My linguistics professor in college was monolingual, so fluency in multiple languages isn't essential to understanding linguistics.

 

We moved to copywork because she had been getting all letter formation correct. Maybe it really is time to go back to letter formation. She kind of enjoys copywork, so I may do one some days of the week, and the other the other days of the week.

 

Grammar was done because she loves it. She loves anything and everything to do with language, really. And she especially loves anything and everything MCT ever wrote, which is how we made it through GT with lots of despised repetition.

 

I'm not a bit interested in linguistics, but she's done a couple of MOOCs. She doesn't understand it as well as an adult would, but she get enough out of them to enjoy them and learn, so that may be something to explore. We're about to finish up the Big History videos and need something else to watch over lunch anyway.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...