Unmotivated Highschool Senior - Now what?

[musicalmom1125]

DS17 is a senior this year.  He did well on his college entrance exams and has assured admittance to one of his top two college picks.  That's where the plan falls apart.

 

He is taking 3 dual credit courses at the local college.  Spanish 2, Pre-calculus, and Composition 1.  He currently has 2 C's and a D. The reason he has those grades is because he's not turning in assignments and not studying for tests and quizzes. There are things we could do to help and things he can do on his own but the real problem is that he just doesn't care.  If he were worried about the grades, I'd feel differently but they don't bother him a bit.

 

We've always assumed he would go to college after high school and he has agreed with that.  Now he's saying he doesn't know what he wants to do after high school.  He's stressed about the decisions he has to make about next year and I don't know how to help him. 

 

Any advice?

[OneStepAtATime]

Just going to toss out some questions.

 

Was college right after High School his wish? Or something he felt obligated to do?

 

Does he have an area of study he is interested in? Anything that fires him up? Why is he going to college right out of High School? In other words what is the plan, if any? Was it just an expectation that college must happen after HS? If so might he need something more concrete to strive for?

 

Could he be dealing with anxiety/depression?

 

Is there maybe some other path he has been secretly wishing he could take but was afraid to say anything?

 

Have you asked him in a neutral way why he is not turning in assignments and listening to his response without comment/judgement/suggestions? He may not know himself what the problem is but if he can talk about it with you without feeling pressured he might be able to work out what the problem is.

 

I hope you can open up a line of communication to navigate through these waters. Hugs and good luck.

[Sandragood1]

OneStep has great ideas.

 

I'd suggest taking community college classes but not towards a goal. Just have him explore. My ds did this and it helped him validate himself against a non parental yardstick and find what interested him. My only rule was there must be a math class bc I have strong opinions on math skills getting rusty.

 

I think it's normal to feel doubt and anxiety when the world is saying, "pick what you want to do for the rest of your life!"

 

There's nothing wrong with taking a wide variety of courses as he considers this. In fact he will just be better educated.

[hornblower]

I hand hold a lot.  I don't know if it's because I have slow to launch kids or if I have slow to launch kids because I hand hold a lot but I pushed & pulled & prodded for quite a bit past 17.  

 

 

[MerryAtHope]

I'd consider withdrawing from the classes, unless you are sure it won't affect his enrollment chances next year. You'd be out the money but at least the grades wouldn't follow him.

 

I think it's very normal for a high school senior to feel stressed about the big decisions ahead and the idea of going on to college. I tried to help my oldest de-stress by encouraging him to take at least one class just for exploring what he might like to do along with his gen-eds. Encourage him that he doesn't have to have it all figured out at this point (sometimes kids think they need to declare a major immediately and map their lives out starting with college--and it doesn't help when these are the questions that everyone asks him.) Try to encourage him that he has time to discover and you aren't asking him to know the future.

 

I would, however, want him to be ready to study and do his best in classes. Getting a C while trying one's best is perfectly fine. Getting a C because he's not turning in work on time or studying--not okay. I wouldn't turn his current grades into a huge conflict though--I'd just assume that this is his way of communicating that he's not ready for this step yet. Kids can be ready academically without being ready in other ways (like emotionally etc...). So, I mention this not to make an issue of it now, but because I'd want him to be ready to be willing to put in the effort whenever he goes to college.

 

My dh took a gap year between high school and college, and I took one in the middle of college. We both found that beneficial, and if a student is really stressed about moving on, that might be worth exploring. My oldest is in his 2nd year--going full time but exploring at his pace, so he'll have another semester after this year to finish up his Associates degree. If he's still not sure at that point about what he'd like to do, we'd encourage a gap year for him to just work and think things through. All that to say, you may want to consider a possible gap year and the things he could do in that time.

 

Hang in there! It's an exciting time, but a scary one too, for parents and kids I think!

 

 

[MiMi 4under3]

Has he ever taken college classes before? Maybe the workload and/or tight deadlines are something new to him, and he's struggling with it? (Not implying a lack in his homeschooling :) ) It's easy to pretend you don't care when you're overwhelmed. Maybe he does care but feels like he's in over his head, and doesn't know how else to cope?

 

 

 

[Lori D.]

Totally agreeing with all the previous posters. OneStepAtATime's questions can help you weed through some of the many kinds of things could be going on here...

Pragmatically, you've really got 3 issues here that are all tangled together:

1. still needs to finish high school graduation required credits

2. doing poorly with current dual credit college credits

3. not sure what he wants to do for his immediate future (after high school graduation)

(and there may be some related emotional/mental concerns here)

 

And, for some possible solutions, you're under an immediate time deadline:

Consider withdrawing from one or more of the college courses. Our community college withdrawal deadline is usually at the end of the first week of November, but your school may have an earlier deadline, so that is your priority -- find out if withdrawing is even an option. So find out ASAP what the college's withdrawal deadline is.

 

A withdrawal, while not ideal, leaves a "W" on the transcript, which just means the class was started, but the student withdrew partway through; there is no credit awarded, and no grade assigned, so no impact on GPA. In contrast, a C or a D grade remains as part of the permanent college transcript.

 

Totally agreeing with everything MerryAtHope said above, but esp. this re: grades:

...Getting a C while trying one's best is perfectly fine. Getting a C because he's not turning in work on time or studying--not okay. I wouldn't turn his current grades into a huge conflict though--I'd just assume that this is his way of communicating that he's not ready for this step yet...

 

 

Next, sit down with DS and discuss:

I'd start with those first 2 issues I listed above to help decide whether or not to withdraw from one, two, or all three of the dual credit classes. Consider:

 

- Will withdrawing from one class -- say, the class with the lowest grade, or the class that is stressing him the most, or the class that would be the hardest to catch up in -- make it easier to catch up and complete the other 2 classes? (this was a great, workable solution one semester for one of our DSs here -- withdrawing from the class with a horrible teacher de-stressed him and he was able to have more energy and put the effort in to pull up the rest of the grades for a good GPA)

 

- If withdrawing, what will finish the credit? You will probably need something to fill out those credits for high school graduation requirements. For example, the Pre-Calculus could be done over the rest of this school year through a self-paced self-study option like ALEKS. The Spanish could be completed over the rest of this school year through self-paced self-study with Duolingo and a weekly tutor for accountability. This semester of Composition 1 could be finished at home through whatever assignments and readings you and DS would think are reasonable, and then for the spring semester, DS could take a 1-semester high school level online course to complete the rest of this year's English credit.

 

- If not withdrawing from one or more of the dual credit classes, what commitment is DS willing to make to catch up and complete those courses with a grade that is high enough so that it transfers? (Usually requires a B or a C -- a D  or an F grade does not transfer, and does not count towards a community college Associate's degree) How can accountability come into play? Might it motivate DS a little to realize that a course with a D or an F grade has to be done AGAIN?

 

- Have a serious talk ASAP about what he's thinking / feeling about his future.  Your DS may just have a serious case of "senior-itis" and just wants to be done with school, and I know he can't see it right now, but some day in the future he is REALLY going to regret having low grades as part of his permanent college transcript.

 

Graduating from high school can really stress out students, esp. if they are feeling unsure about what they want to do as a career, or if they are tired of "doing school," or if they ware unsure about what the future holds in general, or if they aren't entirely emotionally/mentally "ready" to move on to college or full-fledged adulthood. Like Hornblower said above, some are slow to mature and need pushing, pulling and prodding for awhile.

 

So talk about what alternatives might be:

- take a gap year deferment on entering the university and make a plan to be productive in some way during that year (work, travel, wilderness experiences, missions, volunteering...)

- work for a year or two

- do an AmeriCorps project for a 6-month or 12-month commitment (earns you federal credit for tutition!)

- start at the community college and work towards an Associate's degree or certificate of interest

 

Sometimes just seeing that there ARE alternatives to immediately starting college can help a student relax and have more energy for finishing high school strongly. Let DS know he doesn't have to make a decision about the university until the spring -- most colleges have a deadline either in March or the 1st of May for accepting the school, so let DS know it's okay to take a few months here before deciding whether or not to go on to college next year, or try an alternative.

 

 

BEST of luck as you work towards completing the senior year in excellence, and in planning towards the future! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Lori D.

[musicalmom1125]

First, a big thank you to everyone you answered my post.  It feels good to talk to people who understand.

 

I think (guessing here) that the pressure of what to do next year has him overwhelmed.  I am basing this on some conversations we've had.  So I think some more discussion along the lines of "lots of kids have no idea what they want to do at this point" is warranted. 

I'll have to discuss some of the options for dealing with the short term issue - grades - with dh.

 

At least now I feel like we have some options to discuss.

 

Thanks so much for the help and support!

 

ETA - I feel bad with such a short reply when you all went to such great lengths to answer my concerns.  Rest assured, I have read and re-read every post and am digesting all of your wisdom.

Edited October 28, 2016 by musicalmom1125

[OneStepAtATime]

Hugs and good luck!

[musicalmom1125]

Background: He's taking 2 one-year long classes: Government/Economics at home and Intro to Psychology at a homeschool support center. Both are relatively easy.  Also, he only needs Gov/Econ, Spanish 2 and Physics to graduate.

 

So this is what we've decided to do about the various issues. 

 

College courses:  We're keeping him in all three courses.  Texas has a six drop limit over the course of his undergraduate career in public higher education.  He'll be able to explain bad grades early on better than later on.  I want him to have those drops for harder courses that may be coming.

 

Grades

• Spanish:  He's decided to start studying the vocabluary (!)

• Pre-Calculus:  He's started tutoring

• Composition:  He's decided that he's going to turn in even the small assignments.(!)

 

Next Semester:  He'll take College Student Success and Intro to Speech at the Community College.  Both should be more approachable than what he took this semester.  He'll take Physics at home instead of at the college as we had planned though we will have to double up on assignments to get it done in a semester.  We'd also planned for him to take Calculus which we've decided against.  He's relieved by the schedule for next semester.

 

Motivation: We have a family business (laboratory) and he has a job waiting for him when he is 18 that pays $15/hour. It's doing grunt work but the pay is like nothing most kids will get. We are going to set a GPA that he must meet next semester to get to keep his job at the lab for the summer. If he doesn't make the grade he can go get a job somewhere else. Mom and dad will not be taking him places, paying for gas, paying for ballroom classes, or giving him spending money so he'll want to work. He's already shown a good work ethic where money is involved.

 

Future Plans: We've all agreed to table any decision making about his future for the present. We're letting him focus on getting through this semester (and possibly next) before he tackles that. We are acting as though he will go to college with the full understanding between him and us that he may very well choose not to. Still,he's applying and will likely accept an admission. We'll put down a deposit and secure housing. This will keep the college zealots among the family (me included) happy and buy him some time to figure out what he REALLY wants to do.

 

We may lose deposits but I'm betting he'll eventually choose college. I think he's scared and overwhelmed.  Right now he's dealing with 3 college classes, finishing his driver's license, finishing his Eagle Scout, and an upcoming ballroom exhibition. The kid has plenty to stress about. My hope is with the changes we've made, he'll make it through the rest of the semester OK. Not with great grades, but OK. Then we'll all take a breath and figure out where to go from here.

FWIW: He is seeing a therapist and she spoke with DH yesterday. My son is discussing these issues with her so at least he has that outlet to help with the stress.

 

Thanks,

Laura

[Eliz]

Double check but I pretty sure in Texas dual credit drops don't count toward the 6 maximum.  My daughter is a dual credit student now.

[musicalmom1125]

Double check but I pretty sure in Texas dual credit drops don't count toward the 6 maximum.  My daughter is a dual credit student now.

 

Wow!  I didn't even think to check that.  I'll get on that right away!  Thanks!

[Bristayl]

Re: Texas drop limit and dual credit, see #49 here: http://www.cte.esc2.net/Curriculum/documents/TEA_Dual_Credit_FAQ1.pdf

 

The university where my daughter does dual credit specifies that dual credit is not counted toward the drop limit. But if you decide to drop, hurry and check the drop dates--at the university my daughter attends, today is the last day you can drop and receive a W.

[Guest2]

Sorry, posted at the same time as above poster. Here is a link from a Texas school . Dual credit students are excluded, but I would google his CC for their policies. Deadlines for withdrawing are coming up really fast. This week and next at many schools. Good luck with whatever you decide.

http://www.laredo.edu/online_catalog/six-drop-limit-imposed-by-the-texas-legislature.htm

Edited November 2, 2016 by Silver Brook

[J-rap]

My daughter can actually drop classes til this Friday, so that's something to look into.

 

Otherwise, I had one child who lost all motivation in her senior year.  (Partially due to chronic pain issues.)  I did everything I could to help her graduate, because I knew that's what would help her most of all, to just be done with it!  We stopped making too many plans for the following year, with the exception of knowing she'd be taking a gap year, and I really "held her hand" through her senior year to get her through it.  

 

In the spring of that year we did begin making some fun plans for a gap year.  There are actually a lot of neat things you can do in a gap year.  You can volunteer in another country (where your room and board is paid), for example.  Maybe something like that would motivate him to get through this year!

 

ETA:  Also, if he has already been accepted at a college but he is feeling uncertain, you can often defer entrance for a year.  That's what my ds did.  (A different child than the one above.)  That gave him a year to think about it and do something fun and different in the meantime, without the worry of wondering what he'll do the following year.  (Since he had already been accepted at the college and knew he could do that the following year.)

Edited November 2, 2016 by J-rap

[musicalmom1125]

The drop date for this school is Nov 9th.  DS has a test in pre-calculus on Monday and wants to wait to decide about dropping until he gets the grade back.  That will put us on the drop date.  We may miss it but we'll see. He spent 2 hours in the tutoring office today so maybe he'll do OK.  He got a 75 on the first one.  Another 75 would bring his grade up.  It's just hard to know what to do...

 

On the upside, we are visiting a university this weekend and it's the one he's most interested in attending.  This mom is going to keep her mouth shut and let the school do the talking.  I hope...

 

Thanks,

Laura

[musicalmom1125]

The three of us (DH, son, me) sat down last night (today is the last day to drop) and figured out a plan.

 

DS will drop composition and pre-calculus today.  He's gong to limp along and take the C in spanish 2.

 

Monday he looks for a job.  After he spends a couple of months working at a minimum wage job he may be ready to take school more seriously..  If not, he'll keep working in the spring semester and take only the two classes he needs to graduate (physics & gov/econ) at home.  If he's ready to go back to college, he'll take College Student Success and retake composition and Pre-calc along with physics and gov/econ at home.

 

Our hope is that some time flipping burgers or bagging groceries will help him decide that school is a good option.

[Lori D.]

The three of us (DH, son, me) sat down last night (today is the last day to drop) and figured out a plan.

 

DS will drop composition and pre-calculus today.  He's gong to limp along and take the C in spanish 2.

 

Monday he looks for a job.  After he spends a couple of months working at a minimum wage job he may be ready to take school more seriously..  If not, he'll keep working in the spring semester and take only the two classes he needs to graduate (physics & gov/econ) at home.  If he's ready to go back to college, he'll take College Student Success and retake composition and Pre-calc along with physics and gov/econ at home.

 

Our hope is that some time flipping burgers or bagging groceries will help him decide that school is a good option.

 

I think the very best part is that you all were able to talk through the options and come up with a plan. :) That is such a great way of modeling/mentoring for when your DS has different tough times and decisions! :)

 

And just to encourage you -- some students are just on their own unique timetable for figuring out what they want to do with their lives, and it can't be rushed.

 

A friend's son, who has always been brilliant with computers and software, worked at a carwash for a year after high school graduation. He then moved on to working for a local computer outlet store for several years, and finally at age 23 realized he really wanted to do something more, so he knocked out gen. ed. classes at the community college, got a transfer scholarship to the university, and then knocked out an integrated degree, landing an internship with a big computer company in the last semester, and went on to work for them for several years before moving on to now doing computer software work for a small company. He was 28 before he finally met a young lady and started dating, and they married. He's very happy. Just bloomed on his own timetable. :)

 

Also, college is not always the route that opens up the future for students.

 

Our DS#2 started off at the community college and got 2 years into a 3-year Associate's before realizing that is not what he wanted to do. He left school and worked for a little over a year really investing himself into trying to climb the ladder there, and when the company wasn't moving him up as they said was their policy, he left and is part of an AmeriCorps project right now that pays NO money, but provides room & board and a tuition credit for any future college. But he is LOVING the work and seeing there are some potential jobs this could take him to in wildland firefighting or possibly environmental conservation -- he may never need a college degree for those careers. He's 22, and on his own timetable. He'll get it figured out. :)

 

 

Wishing all the BEST for you and for your DS and his future! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Lori D.

[Bluegoat]

The three of us (DH, son, me) sat down last night (today is the last day to drop) and figured out a plan.

 

DS will drop composition and pre-calculus today.  He's gong to limp along and take the C in spanish 2.

 

Monday he looks for a job.  After he spends a couple of months working at a minimum wage job he may be ready to take school more seriously..  If not, he'll keep working in the spring semester and take only the two classes he needs to graduate (physics & gov/econ) at home.  If he's ready to go back to college, he'll take College Student Success and retake composition and Pre-calc along with physics and gov/econ at home.

 

Our hope is that some time flipping burgers or bagging groceries will help him decide that school is a good option.

 

Don't set out a false choice though, in your own mind or for your son.  It really isn't university or a minimum wage job - there are other paths in life.

 

A real job like bagging or fast food sounds like a good idea, but so might be something entry level from a non-university track that would be in an area that might actually appeal in the long term. 

[Arcadia]

 On the upside, we are visiting a university this weekend and it's the one he's most interested in attending. 

 

  

Our hope is that some time flipping burgers or bagging groceries will help him decide that school is a good option.

What is his interest? Does he have any ideas after the campus tour?

 

Depending on what his interest is in, I'll look at a job that caters to that. For example, my interest is in project management other than engineering. So I worked retail as a temp in a company that has a management training program for prospective employees who are fresh grads after my last high school exams. I got to learn how to markup prices correctly, fill out purchase orders, small accounting tasks. Then I temp at my university's computer center and get to do project rollout work.

 

So try to apply for temp jobs that would help him gain new skills sets and help resume building. If he wants to be a fast food manager eventually than of course go for a fast food job. I know people who have rise up the ranks of fast food chains but they enjoy food management.

[musicalmom1125]

Thank you for all the supportive replies.  You all are right - I do need to remember that there are lots of options for after high school.  College and minimum wage jobs are not the only two options.  My dream has always been to see him in college, but I want him to be happy more.  I guess it's time to open that dream up to other options.  It really is a major mind shift for me.  But above all I want him to have a fulfilling life and it's one he has to live, not me.  So he has to make the choices.

 

I know these things in my head, but my heart is having a hard time catching up...

[Mom22ns]

I just wanted to encourage you. My ds did exactly the same thing his senior year. Luckily, he was taking APs and homeschooling not DE. We dropped everything we could and made the spring semester light. I handheld through the rest. He really considered not going to college. He wasn't sure what he wanted to do and didn't like the idea of more school or wasting money.

 

Long story short, he is a sophomore in college now. He is ASD and is easily overwhelmed by stress. His first semester he didn't show up to one of his finals where he wasn't prepared. The teacher ended up letting him write a 5 page paper and gave him half credit for the final and he ended up with a B in the class (obviously he was doing well up to that point).He has found things he loves and has a rough career plan now. He went with one major and added another and a minor after he got there and tried some different classes. If we hadn't kept pushing and pushing pretty hard, he wouldn't have gone. We've still had to hand-hold a bit at times. 

 

Things aren't straight forward and simple with him, but he is making it through college and he doesn't regret being there. Do listen to his dreams, but don't be afraid to help him work through the stress and fear and still continue with college too.

[learners4life]

My dream has always been to see him in college, but I want him to be happy more.  I guess it's time to open that dream up to other options.  It really is a major mind shift for me.  But above all I want him to have a fulfilling life and it's one he has to live, not me.  So he has to make the choices.

 

I know these things in my head, but my heart is having a hard time catching up...

 

{{Hugs}} to you MusicalMom.