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If you made specific but casual plans with someone...


Greta
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... such as meeting at this time on this date for lunch, is that something you consider firm (a commitment to be there), or something you consider more fluid (maybe it will happen, maybe it won't)?

 

I have one particular friend who was always canceling plans like this the day before we were supposed to meet. No explanation was ever offered, and I never asked for one of course. But eventually I got the message (whether it's the one she intended to send or not) that she didn't really want to spend time with me, so I stopped asking. It happens. Life goes on.

 

But. Now her daughter is doing the same thing to my daughter. They used to be really close, and when they do (rarely!) get to actually spend time together she seems to genuinely enjoy it. But she cancels so often that I just don't know how to read it.

 

Is this simply a different family culture regarding what it means to make plans with a friend? If this were your daughter, would you encourage her to keep trying, with the understanding that there's a good chance the plans will never come to fruition? Or would you encourage her to focus her energy on other friendships instead?

 

(DD hasn't asked my opinion yet, and may not do so. If she doesn't, I'll stay out of it. But in case she does, I wanted to gain some outside perspective. Thanks!)

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I would wonder who is initiating the plans. Is it you and your daughter or the other family. If it is you or your daughter who brings up getting together and they keep cancelling, then I would not keep trying. If the other family is interested in getting together, let them make the first move.

Good point. It used to be mutual, but lately it has only been my dd initiating contact and making plans. I guess that means the friend isn't interested anymore. :(

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I think it might be a family culture type of thing. We are notorious for "playing it by ear" and most of my friends are okay with that because they're the same way. The ones that aren't we don't hang out with anymore. My friends and I will set dates, but we all have kids, aging parents,  and animals and stuff comes up. We always let each other know what's going on though and try and reschedule ASAP. But we (we being my girlfriends and myself) do cancel or reschedule at least 50% of the time. It's a part of life for all of us at the moment. 

 

The daughter thing though.....since by your signature your dd seems old enough to get herself to/from meetings. Yeah, that's a little weird. Maybe the Mom rubbed off on the daughter. 

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I'd ask DD how she is inviting her friend to get together.  

 

If she is one who uses the "What are you doing on Tuesday?" line as an intro to her invitations, she may unintentionally be railroading her friends into making plans that they weren't interested in making in the first place.  I wouldn't take offense at changed plans in this case, and I'd gently instruct her in altering her tactic.  This family may be people pleasers and allow themselves to be guilted into unwanted gatherings.

 

If she is asking to get together with specifics like, "It would be fun to get our nails done together.  What do you think?  (positive response) Are you free on Tuesday night?" then her friend should have enough information to say yes or no upfront.  I'd encourage her to wait for an invitation from friend in this case.

 

 

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I'd ask DD how she is inviting her friend to get together.

 

If she is one who uses the "What are you doing on Tuesday?" line as an intro to her invitations, she may unintentionally be railroading her friends into making plans that they weren't interested in making in the first place. I wouldn't take offense at changed plans in this case, and I'd gently instruct her in altering her tactic. This family may be people pleasers and allow themselves to be guilted into unwanted gatherings.

 

If she is asking to get together with specifics like, "It would be fun to get our nails done together. What do you think? (positive response) Are you free on Tuesday night?" then her friend should have enough information to say yes or no upfront. I'd encourage her to wait for an invitation from friend in this case.

The latter, to the best of my knowledge. With all of the interactions that I'm aware of, anyway, it went like that. But I can check in with her to be sure. Thanks for mentioning this!

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Some people just prioritise themselves over other people.

 

I have one 'friend' I dropped for doing this many, many times. I walked away from the friendship when she got me involved in two things that both ended up costing me money because she bailed at the last minute and I had to cover expenses I wasn't intending to.

 

Now her daughter is doing it to another friend's daughter. She simply prioritises what is happening to her, and is unable or unwilling to consider the impact on other people. My friend is encouraging her daughter not to consider any arrangements with the unreliable child as confirmed until they happen but to continued with the friendship. Personally I think that is tacit approval of that sort of behaviour.

 

Clearly I'm not over this issue yet, and it's almost two years to the day since I walked away from the unreliable friendship!

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... such as meeting at this time on this date for lunch, is that something you consider firm (a commitment to be there), or something you consider more fluid (maybe it will happen, maybe it won't)?

 

I have one particular friend who was always canceling plans like this the day before we were supposed to meet. No explanation was ever offered, and I never asked for one of course. But eventually I got the message (whether it's the one she intended to send or not) that she didn't really want to spend time with me, so I stopped asking. It happens. Life goes on.

 

But. Now her daughter is doing the same thing to my daughter. They used to be really close, and when they do (rarely!) get to actually spend time together she seems to genuinely enjoy it. But she cancels so often that I just don't know how to read it.

 

Is this simply a different family culture regarding what it means to make plans with a friend? If this were your daughter, would you encourage her to keep trying, with the understanding that there's a good chance the plans will never come to fruition? Or would you encourage her to focus her energy on other friendships instead?

 

(DD hasn't asked my opinion yet, and may not do so. If she doesn't, I'll stay out of it. But in case she does, I wanted to gain some outside perspective. Thanks!)

 

if they made a firm affirmative, I'd consider it firm. 

 

(I know one women who couldn't say 'no', so she'd waffle, even implying 'yes', but never actually saying 'yes'.)

 

I do wonder why you consider plans with this woman, who has a history of last minute cancellations,  are ever firm.  like mother like daughter.  if it was my daughter, I'd encourage her to move-on.  if the other daughter is interested in a friendship, she should make an effort.

 

 

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Some people just prioritise themselves over other people.

 

I have one 'friend' I dropped for doing this many, many times. I walked away from the friendship when she got me involved in two things that both ended up costing me money because she bailed at the last minute and I had to cover expenses I wasn't intending to.

 

Now her daughter is doing it to another friend's daughter. She simply prioritises what is happening to her, and is unable or unwilling to consider the impact on other people. My friend is encouraging her daughter not to consider any arrangements with the unreliable child as confirmed until they happen but to continued with the friendship. Personally I think that is tacit approval of that sort of behaviour.

 

Clearly I'm not over this issue yet, and it's almost two years to the day since I walked away from the unreliable friendship!

Wow, that stinks. This friend has never cost me money or inconvenienced me to that degree. Just left me scratching my head in confusion. :)

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It's rude.  I've had that happen with a "friend" whom I finally dropped.  I know she is just too busy to be bothered with the likes of me, but ya know, my time is valuable too.  If my friend had a kid like that, I'd probably warn my own kid as I saw that pattern developing, so she'd know it wasn't her [my kid's] fault.

 

Currently there is a mom and daughter who has disappointed us a few times.  There is always an explanation, but it's usually something minor.  It seems to me that they are just way more relaxed than we are, or unwilling to put themselves out for much.  I take that as being their family culture.  Though there could be some health issues that are none of my business (I know they have some, but I'm not privy to all the details).  I don't view that the same as the friend mentioned above, mainly because they seem more honest about it.

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if they made a firm affirmative, I'd consider it firm.

 

(I know one women who couldn't say 'no', so she'd waffle, even implying 'yes', but never actually saying 'yes'.)

I kind of wish she had waffled, because then I would have understood that it wasn't firm. But it always sounded like a definite thing. Then the day before, she would text me saying, "we're still on for tomorrow, right?" but then when I'd confirm she'd say "oh, sorry, can't make it after all."

 

I do wonder why you consider plans with this woman, who has a history of last minute cancellations, are ever firm. like mother like daughter. if it was my daughter, I'd encourage her to move-on. if the other daughter is interested in a friendship, she should make an effort.

 

I'm slow, but I eventually learned that she wasn't viewing these plans the same way I was! :D So I gave up, and she hasn't reached out to me since, which I guess tells me everything I need to know. I'd hoped it would be different for our daughters since they had been so close, but I guess not. Fortunately, my daughter has made some new friends in some classes that she started in August, so that really helps.

 

 

(Edited for typo)

Edited by Greta
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It's rude.  I've had that happen with a "friend" whom I finally dropped.  I know she is just too busy to be bothered with the likes of me, but ya know, my time is valuable too.  If my friend had a kid like that, I'd probably warn my own kid as I saw that pattern developing, so she'd know it wasn't her [my kid's] fault.

 

Currently there is a mom and daughter who has disappointed us a few times.  There is always an explanation, but it's usually something minor.  It seems to me that they are just way more relaxed than we are, or unwilling to put themselves out for much.  I take that as being their family culture.  Though there could be some health issues that are none of my business (I know they have some, but I'm not privy to all the details).  I don't view that the same as the friend mentioned above, mainly because they seem more honest about it.

 

 

Yeah, I wondered if it was something like this!  They are far more outgoing and social than we are by nature, so I think they have a lot more friends offering a lot more activities.  So I was wondering if for them it's kind of like, I'll wait and see which offer interests me the most.  Whereas to me, if I said I'd be there, I'll be there barring illness, accident, etc.  I definitely feel "done" but without any hard feelings.  It's just not worth getting upset about.  I guess I just needed confirmation that it's okay to tell my dd that she doesn't have to keep trying.  :)

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I can't stand people who do that. Sometimes things come up, but a date and time means it's to be kept. I even go so far as to say "barring emergency I will see you ______, I'm really looking forward to it!". And if they continually flake I'll just call them up and let them know my feelings are a bit hurt and they can do the scheduling and reaching out, because I'm done trying. The ball is in their court at that point and I think some of these people don't reall understand how this comes off to their friends who treat outings more seriously.

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If a time and place have been agreed upon, I consider it firm and would only cancel for emergencies.

If it is more "we'll get together some time next week for lunch", that is not a firm appointment.

 

I hate it when people cancel nilly-willy. It shows that they do not value my time. "Stuff" always seems to "come up" for the same people - somehow many of us manage to hold a job and raise children without bailing on commitments.

 

ETA: A friend of mine organizes group events, and fb RSVPs are even worse. People seem to think a "will attend" does not count if it is on social media.

Edited by regentrude
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I'm almost phobic about accepting invitations / "suggestions to get together" because I am so busy and I want to be reasonably sure I can follow through.  I'd rather manage expectations up front than let people down after they have made an effort and maybe got their kids' hopes up.  Maybe I am the weird one though ....

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I'm almost phobic about accepting invitations / "suggestions to get together" because I am so busy and I want to be reasonably sure I can follow through. I'd rather manage expectations up front than let people down after they have made an effort and maybe got their kids' hopes up. Maybe I am the weird one though ....

Guess I'm weird too. :)

 

Thanks, everyone, again for the help!

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Depends on the person.  Unfortunately, I have had friends that did not consider those firm plans.  They might or might not show up, might or might not let me know they were canceling, but they were still interested in being friends.  They were just lousy at commitment and staying organized enough to get places.  The choice, then, becomes whether I want to put up with someone that cannot be consistent and commit to plans and follow through.  For some, it was worth it.  For others, nope.

 

For others, it may very well be a message that they are no longer interested, they just don't know how to say it.

 

And for others, they may just be really busy and are kind of expecting you to keep the friendship alive.

 

FWIW, I had a friend I considered a good friend.  We saw each other often because we were in certain activities together.  When those ended it took more effort to see each other.  We both were still calling at first but eventually she stopped calling and it was all me.  I was busy and I guess she was too.  Eventually, I stopped calling her.  She never called back.  A couple of years later we ran into each other again.  She asked why I stopped calling.  She said she assumed I had moved away.  I pointed out she never called me,either, and I was the one to make the last several calls.  She said she just assumed when I stopped calling that I no longer wanted the friendship.  I guess she expected it to all be from my side of things.

 

If the friendship really matters to your daughter, she might talk to her over the phone and ask point blank if she is still interested in maintaining the friendship.  That might or might not net a useful answer.  Or she can just stop calling and see if the other person makes an effort.  I'm sorry you are both dealing with this.  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

 

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If I had specific plans for a specific time and date, I would consider them firm unless one of us said, "Let's plan on lunch on Tuesday at 12, but I'm waiting for a call about scheduling X, and if Tuesday at 12 is when X can happen, then we will need to reschedule." I have a good friend that I could say that to, and she could say the same to me, and I wouldn't find it flaky or offensive. But both of us would be up front about plans possibly needing to change.

 

I will admit to being bad about initiating plans. I'm such an introvert. I very much enjoy hanging out with my handful of close friends, but I'm much less likely to initiate. I have to make a conscious effort to initiate so my friends don't think it's one-sided. So I wouldn't necessarily think it a bad sign if one person was always doing the initiating, but the frequent last minute cancelling would lead me to stop pursuing the friendship. OP, I'm sorry your daughter is running into this!

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