s/o vaccine threads: would like to make a poll, but can't

[Pen]

Have you by any chance seen the documentary film Vaxxed? If so, what did you think of it?

 

If you have a child (or were yourself) completely unvaccinated, and if that was not due to pre-existing poor health, what is your or your unvaccinated child's health and related status -- including physical health and also things like learning or behavior issues?

 

Does anyone on here have a child who is diagnosed as autistic who was completely unvaccinated?

 

Does anyone on here have a child considered to be autistic where the autistic regression seemed to follow vaccination?

 

My child had pretty much the full CDC recommended vaccines--though some were late. He does not have autism, but he has had significant learning and other issues.

 

I had more vaccines than typical for my age cohort, due to international travel and parents in health care who believed in doing whatever was recommended (though that was still a lot less than are currently available/recommended and being given routinely to most children) and have serious, disabling autoimmune and chronic health issues.  

 

I have tended to be a "moderate" on vaccines, trying to decide for each one whether it gives more benefit than risk, and sometimes accepting my pro-vaccine (physician) father's recommendations--or sometimes having to accept a group of vaccines because the one I wanted was not available singly. But I am seriously wondering whether a lot of what I see in children around me or what I am experiencing in my own life could be at least in part vaccine related.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mergath]

My dd is kind of the opposite of what you're asking. She has a genetic deletion that gave her a one in three (!!!!) chance of being autistic, along with a high risk of many other learning issues. She was fully vaxxed on time, with a flu shot every year, and she is not on the spectrum, has zero learning disabilities,  and is academically advanced in many ways. She's ridiculously healthy.

[Laura Corin]

I think that small samples don't tell us very much.  Because of living overseas, Husband and I have been highly vaccinated and so have my children.  I received Typhoid immunisations annually for several years as a child, for example (long story).  My sons had all the usuals plus TB (yes, immunisation, not skin test), Typhoid, Japanese Encephalitis, Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, Cholera, Yellow Fever and Rabies.

 

We are all highly healthy, with no auto-immune issues.  Calvin's coordination was delayed, but he has some pretty uncoordinated relatives, so I don't think there's anything you can take from that.

[TranquilMind]

I have not seen it. I would like to see it.  I am always willing to look at all sides of an issue, especially one with such important ramifications. 

[SKL]

I think studies have shown that there are some people who are more susceptible to vaccine injury than others.

 

I too take a "decide vax by vax" and delayed vax approach, though my kids did receive vaxes per recommended schedule prior to age 1 due to being in foster care.  One of my kids has some minor learning/sensory/behavior issues which she seems to have mostly grown out of.  Because I don't know enough of her history, I can't say much else.  I am careful about vaxes because I watched my sister incur a vax injury, and I have at least two friends whose children were vax injured (both with lifelong results).

Edited October 24, 2016 by SKL

[FaithManor]

Small samples tend to not make for reliable data.

 

That said, anecdotally, the vaxxed persons in our extended family are healthier than the unvaxxed. I think it is likely coincidental. That said, niece does not allow her children to have any vaccinations, not even tetanus, and so far her daughter has had whooping cough, chicken pox, and rubella. She plays a lot with unvaccinated Amish children so I think this will continue to be an issue. She also has learning problems, some autistic tendencies but not enough to be officially on the spectrum at this time.

 

My nephews are all fully vaxxed as are my sons minus two of them opting out of Gardisil and hepatitis, and they are all very healthy with no learning issues.

 

But I don't think that this actually is an indicator of anything. In order to be of any scientific value the sampling would have to be in the many thousands, and certain variables such as known inherited traits for certain autoimmune disorders eliminated. WAY too many variables in this scenario to be of any real value.

[Crimson Wife]

 

Does anyone on here have a child who is diagnosed as autistic who was completely unvaccinated?

 

Does anyone on here have a child considered to be autistic where the autistic regression seemed to follow vaccination?

 

My oldest was in daycare from age 9 months through 3 years. She has followed the CDC schedule except we have held off on Hep B and HPV. She does not have autism.

 

My DS and younger DD followed a delayed, spread-out schedule. DS had the individual measles, mumps, and Rubella shots. Those had been discontinued under pressure from the Obama Administration by the time my youngest was due for the measles shot so I delayed the combo MMR until she was 3.

 

In retrospect, it is obvious that my younger DD was showing signs of autism VERY early in infancy, long before she had most of her shots and years before the MMR. She actually received the autism diagnosis a few months before the MMR. By that point, I felt that there was no reason to hold off on the MMR any longer.

 

She has non-regressive autism, just a very delayed development. She has always seemed much younger than her chronological age. Physically as well as everything else. She didn't lose her first baby tooth until last week at age 7 years 10 mos.

[MistyMountain]

I kept getting invited to screenings in my area but it is not my thing. I used to be more on the fearful camp but I have gotten much less so over time. I saw a rebuttal on the film from science based medicine and decided it would annoy me to much to watch it. I think of it as similar to that film that was on YouTube loose change or those videos people make about school shootings to show it is a hoax. It can seem scary but if you really look at it is not and can be debunked.

 

My kids have all the vaccines but were on a slower schedule. They have the same sort of things that run in our families and never had behavior changes after a vaccine and I saw there personalities and sensitivities from birth.

Edited October 24, 2016 by MistyMountain

[katilac]

I have not seen Vaxxed. 

 

I am in favor of vaccination, although I have no problem with parents who choose to carefully consider delaying or spreading out vaccines - the same for skipping some vaccines, but I think that applies to a much smaller number of people.

 

Vaccine injury is real, just as dangers from medication or any type of surgery are real. I don't dispute that. I do think that many people overestimate vaccine injury, particularly as it relates to autism, and underestimate the death and disability that existed prior to vaccines. 

 

I am always open to new information. One thing that I have searched for, without much success, is convincing video of children who were developing normally and then regressed after vaccination. Video cameras with sound have been prevalent for many, many years, and of course now most people have it literally in their hand with smartphones. I know I have tons of video with sound of my now nearly-grown children, but everything I found seemed to be still photos placed into a video, sometimes with a very short video segment that lacked sound. If anyone has a link to what they consider convincing video, I'd be interested. 

 

 

[MistyMountain]

People's memories for recalling milestones such as when kids were talking is not perfect. For instance if you look at Drs records for some of the people who claim a major regression you do not see it noted in visits shortly after the major regression supposedly occurred. I have a friend who says her child lost speech after a vaccine but I was around them a lot and they did not have the speech that was claimed. I specifically remember thinking at the ages she mentioned he was really talking thinking well they are not talking yet but they are young enough still. I thought I knew my own kid's history with talking milestones really well and I have an excellent memory usually but a look back post showed me my memory was not perfect. Plus kids can regress in skills especially in those early stages where they are learning a lot because they focus on something else. I think a lot of the kids that are cured just learn coping skills or did not have the correct diagnosis. There are so many cases where things kind of fit symptoms can seem like something but it was not. Things are not always super cut and dry in all kids.

 

There could be kids that were injured by vaccines out there just like with any other medication or treatment but it is not as prevalent as some claim or the cause of the autism rates. We just are so much aware of autism now and so more people seek out evaluations. I know adults who were never diagnosed but they have lots of spectrum symptoms.

Edited October 25, 2016 by MistyMountain

[Sara in AZ]

I have not seen the documentary you mentioned. In my little family we have two older children who are fully vaxxed (minus HPV), though most were done on a delayed schedule. We also have two younger children who are completely unvaxxed.

 

My oldest vaxxed child, DD14, had tons of ear infections as an infant, developed asthma at age 18 months, and was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at age 6. DS 11, also fully vaxxed has been generally healthy aside from minor colds/flu.

 

For a while I felt like the diabetes diagnosis might have been related to a vaccine based on some research I did that suggested the Hib vaccine could trigger diabetes. And Hib was the one I started DD on first at 4 mo. That and my general, unscientifically substantiated mistrust of assaulting infants' immune systems kept me from vaccinating DD8 (who was born a month after DD14's Type 1 diagnosis.)

 

DD8, unvaxxed, has been frequently ill from birth (kept in the NICCU for 10 days for an unidentified infection). She has always had frequent (as in every other month for the first two years) high and unexplained fevers. I've always thought she must have a weaker immune system or something. And this year, at age 7, she was finally diagnosed with Celiac disease after two years of vague stomach pain. So I wonder if her immune system really has been working overtime all this time. Who knows. DD5, unvaxxed mainly out of neglect, is healthy as a horse.

 

So there's my useless little family anecdote. The one time we had whooping cough, though, it was my fully vaxxed son who brought it home and passed it on to me (need a booster) and DD8. The CDC told me that vaccine is less effective due to the new and safer formulation.

 

I do intend at some point to get the younger two vaxxed.

[kroe1]

My kids are exceptional. First one an ER physician. Second one amazing with her own business since age 14. She finished high school at age 15. Both were vaccinated on time, whatever the CDC recommended. The only exception is Gardisil and annual flu shots in DD16. We just really have not gotten around to getting them. My kids were always healthy. The younger one has ADD traits, but, because of homeschooling, she uses that to her advantage. It is more of a gift than a disability, and it helps her perform what she does as a broadcaster.

[DawnM]

There is a lot of study these days linking Autism Spectrum Disorder with genetics.  I tend to agree with this theory.  

 

My children are fully Vaccinated.  By that, I mean childhood vaccinations.  We have chosen not to do HPV, but all the rest, we have gotten.  Although I think meningitis is not effective for a long enough time, but I don't believe it is harmful, so we did it.

 

 

[Kathryn]

My autistic child was fully vaccinated at the time (Rotavirus vaccine came out after him). There is no doubt in my mind that his autism has nothing to do with that. He was how he is as a baby, even as a fetus on ultrasound. He did have allergies that would have made him react to the rotavirus vaccine, so we didn't do that one with our other two. I also spaced out the vaccines so that they only got one new one at a time. Other than rotavirus, my children are fully vaxxed.

 

I'm the one who started the HPV thread. DH and I talked about it last night and agreed to hold off for a year. This year, we felt the meningococcal one was more important for our particular 11yo and like I said, I like to do just one new one at a time.

[Pen]

There is a lot of study these days linking Autism Spectrum Disorder with genetics.  I tend to agree with this theory.  

 

 

 

 

I have no doubt that some cases of autism probably do have a genetic link.

 

However, how would genetics as a cause account for sharp rise in number of cases in recent years?

[Outdoorsy Type]

There is also a documented correlation between Folic Acid over dose in pregnancy and Autism rates.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Outdoorsy Type

[wapiti]

I have no doubt that some cases of autism probably do have a genetic link.

 

However, how would genetics as a cause account for sharp rise in number of cases in recent years?

if various genes affected one's ability to process and get rid of unwanted materials (both intra and extracellular processes), then one possibit might be a situation in which the individual with suboptimal processing is exposed to greater amounts of such materials during various developmenal periods than prior generations.

 

Vaccines are only one example of exposure to materials that have increased in recent decades (the schedule ). There are others. Example, forced intake of folic acid for an individual with mthfr polymorphisms who may have difficulty processing that synthetic vitamin and who may experience suboptimal methylation as a result. (IIRC, starting early 90s-ish, most wheat products in the US haversion had folic acid. A single serving of cheerios now has 50% (!) of the RDA and that's not even wheat.

 

On top of that, the immune system and its interactions with the nervous system are exceptionally complex and not well understood. A certain portion of the immune system lies in the gut and accordingly any changes in food supply may lead to additional differences for the genetically susceptible.

 

(I am giving up trying to type on phone, grrr)

Edited October 28, 2016 by wapiti

[Janeway]

My vaccinated children have been diagnosed with ASD, so far, my non vaccinated ones haven't been.

[OneStepAtATime]

I have no doubt that some cases of autism probably do have a genetic link.

 

However, how would genetics as a cause account for sharp rise in number of cases in recent years?

I don't have scientific studies to back this up but I strongly suspect one of the contributing factors to the increase in cases is the increase in awareness and therefore the increase in parents seeking evaluations and diagnosis.  

 

This is also true for dyslexia/dysgraphia/dyscalculia.  Increased awareness means more parents seeking specific answers and more medical professionals having the background to make proper referrals to professionals that can more accurately assess and assign a diagnosis that might not have been sought before.

 

 For example, DH is dyslexic, dysgraphic and probably ADD.  He has no diagnosis.  He nearly failed High School.  He is a brilliant engineer and very successful in his field but he struggled in school.  He was very, very lucky that he made it professionally.  His parents had no idea why he struggled in school.  They never sought help.  They assumed he just "wasn't very academic".  His pediatrician had never herd of dyslexia.  He was of no help whatsoever.  

 

Next generation, we had no idea, either, why our kids were struggling.  Even my reading specialist mother with all the degrees had no idea.  Until I met someone who actually DID know about dyslexia and recommended I seek evaluations.  And sure enough, my kids are dyslexic.  So are some of their cousins.  DH's generation in his family there are probably at least 5 that have diagnosable learning differences that were never diagnosed.  Our kids' generation?  Multiple cousins plus our kids that have diagnoses.  Was there a sudden explosion of kids in DH's family that have dyslexia from one generation to the next?  Nope.  Just a lot more people aware of the possibility that sought out answers and got a diagnosis.

[AmandaVT]

Very small sample size: 

 

My brother and I were fully vaccinated as children. He had learning disabilities (dyslexia, ADD), I did not. My father also is dyslexic - I assume there's a genetic component. 

 

DS is fully (almost - haven't done Hepatitis yet) vaccinated. He's a very healthy kid. One ear infection when he was just under a year old, generally a cold a couple times a year and that's it. 

 

My friend's son is 11, fully vaccinated. Has Autism but otherwise a healthy kid. 

 

Another friend has 2 daughters, fully vaccinated (including HPV). Both healthy with no learning disabilities. 

 

I have one friend who hasn't vaccinated her child at all. He is a bit developmentally delayed, has had some serious conditions that has landed him in the hospital multiple times (2 surgeries included) and also had a pretty bad case of whooping cough when he was 4, that thankfully DS didn't catch. 

 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

My bio kids, now 18 and 20, were completely unvaccinated for their childhoods not because I was concerned about autism (they're too old for that too have been a motivation when they were born, it came into the public mind later) but because at that time the number of cases of those diseases was minuscule.  Over time those numbers changed due to increasing numbers of people exposed abroad and then coming into the US both legally and illegally, so we discussed selective vaccination in their mid teens when they started cc at 15 and 17.   We found out that middle daughter had an immunity issue going on that made her contraindicated for all but one vaccine-the penumo vaccine that one is recommended for the elderly, not her age group.  So, she was vaccinated with that due to the recurring walking pneumonia and then more testing was done after she got it to see if solved it or if she had an underlying auto-immune issue going on.  She didn't have auto-immune issues and the pneumo vaccine solved her problem.   When you're vaccinated as a late teen you don't need as many so the immunologist gave the go ahead for selective vaccination for the big ones one at a time over a longer period of time the schedules recommend. 

I can' tell you how grateful I am that we didn't automatically start vaccinating her according to schedule at birth because it might have been an issue-no way to know for sure. 

Oldest does birth work, she's a doula, so she's vaccinated for anything that could make life difficult for a baby or young child because babies often have young siblings in the home.

I personally know a completely unvaccinated autistic kid. 

[maize]

There is also a documented correlation between Folic Acid over dose in pregnancy and Autism rates.

I hadn't heard of this so went searching for information:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/863216

 

Looks like ASD go down with folic acid supplementation but then increases significantly if levels of folic acid and B-12 are too high.

 

Good to know.

Edited October 28, 2016 by maize

[HS Mom in NC]

Middle daughter and her boyfriend both had whooping cough (blood test confirmed) last spring.  He was fully vaxxed according to schedule.  She was between her selective shots. It wasn't the stereotypical symptoms, just a momentary fit of moderate coughing a time or two each day. The doctors didn't give them any restrictions-they could still go to work and school and be out and about.  I thought that was interesting.  I thought they would be told to quarantine themselves.

Youngest is an international adoptee and we are required to have her vaxxed according to schedule with the flu shot being optional.

[maize]

I hadn't heard of this so went searching for information:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/863216

 

Looks like ASD go down with folic acid supplementation but then increase significantly if levels of folic acid and B-12 are too high.

 

Good to know.

Actually glad this came up. I just looked up my folate blood test levels and they are in the excessive range according to this study. Sounds like I should cut back on prenatal supplements for awhile. I think I'll bring this up with my midwife at my next appointment.

[wapiti]

Actually glad this came up. I just looked up my folate blood test levels and they are in the excessive range according to this study. Sounds like I should cut back on prenatal supplements for awhile. I think I'll bring this up with my midwife at my next appointment.

 

One thing to be aware of is that studies and other things often confuse folic acid with natural folate.  I don't know much about levels.  One area to consider looking is for defects in methylation (e.g. mthfr), even though it's a huge can of worms.

 

(and woah, dude, I didn't know you were expecting - congratulations :) )

[maize]

One thing to be aware of is that studies and other things often confuse folic acid with natural folate. I don't know much about levels. One area to consider looking is for defects in methylation (e.g. mthfr), even though it's a huge can of worms.

 

(and woah, dude, I didn't know you were expecting - congratulations :) )

Definitely. Some of the comments below the article I posted mentioned the possibility of MTHFR or other mutations affecting folic acid/B-12 metabolism and that correlation between high maternal plasma levels and children diagnosed with autism may in fact relate to these genes being passed down.

 

I don't have MTHFR mutations but I do have a mutation that affects B-12 metabolism. My husband has at least one MTHFR mutation.

 

Interesting.

 

Given that my plasma folate levels are in fact very high I think I'm better off cutting back on supplements. I wasn't taking extra supplements either, just a normal prenatal vitamin dose.

Edited October 28, 2016 by maize

[LMV]

*I have seen Vaxxed and I suppose to be very diplomatic I found it less than credible. 

*We've vaccinated all of our biological children by the recommended CDC/ACIP/AAP schedule. Our sixteen year old was completely unimmunized when we met her (when she had just turned 10) so we did work through the catchup schedule with her. At the time we met her, her physical health was horrible but I'm not in any way blaming that solely on her lack of immunizations. Our pediatrician recommended a quite aggressive catch up schedule with the plan to check titers for some vaccines because her immune system was not in great shape at the time we started immunizing. Yes, we knew that she might not build good immunity to vaccines at the time but we also didn't feel comfortable leaving her completely unprotected either so we followed the pediatrician's recommendation. In the end I guess the immune response concern was needless because she had adequate titers when we were all done.

*None of our children have been diagnosed with autism. In the course of practicing medicine, I can think of several children/adolescents with very low functioning autism who were completely unimmunized at the time I saw them.

[umsami]

I have not seen Vaxxed, but have a friend who regularly posts clips from it, from the guy who made it Somebody Bigtree I think?, etc.  Everything she's posted has issues.  For example, she posted some clip from a physician who is supposedly an infectious disease specialist.  I Googled.  He is not board certified in infectious diseases.  He's board certified in anti-aging medicine which is not an ABMS recognized board.  He let his internal medicine certification lapse, etc.   Autism, Andrew Wakefield, etc. fully discredited.  Vaccines are not a conspiracy, IMHO.  Wonderful invention that has saved millions upon millions of lives. 

 

[SporkUK]

I have no doubt that some cases of autism probably do have a genetic link.

 

However, how would genetics as a cause account for sharp rise in number of cases in recent years?

 

The evidence for sharp rise outside of diagonstic changes is cloudy at best. Autism has only been a diagnosis since the '60s, but autistic people almost certainly existed before that. 

 

Autism, as a diagnosis, has a very complicated history. It was for decades interlinked with schizophrenia [there is a noticeable difference even today on which children with the same symptons and function issues are diagonsed as autistic and which as schizophrenic along race and income lines]. There was a schism in the 60s and 70s between parts of the world who backed the German Aspergers who viewed autism as a spectrum and mainly genetic and the American Kanner who viewed is as a psychotic condition that was rare, partially caused by bad parenting, and favoured institutionalizing-based treatments. As a result of Kanner's view, only the most severe cases - and some debate those cases where autism was an additional condition alongside psychotic conditions - were counted. It has taken years to fight against that mentality in the system and it is why, even though Aspergers is not an official diagnosis in many places any longer, many prefer the term as Dr. Aspergers continually had a more humane view of us. There are still major issues in diagnosis and stigma today because of Kanner's work - I still meet medical professionals who view anything beyond severe as unworthy of diagnosis and need of better parenting. And that is before we get into the overlap between autism and over neurodivergent conditions and the extra difficulties of being autistic in a modern, over stimulating world that would not have been the case previously which means we need better awareness of how to live with it. 

 

I am autistic, I have autistic children. My children were all vaxed on a very delayed schedule because I was a frightened young mother who was made to feel broken and needing to protect my kids from what I am. They were, particularly my eldest, clearly autistic before they were vaccinated. I now look at that scare mongering with a lot of anger and ensure my kids get all of their vaccinations. I should never have been scared out of protecting my kids, especially by those praising a quack who falsified records after abusing autistic and developmentally delayed children who has thankfully since been struck off the medical register. Dr Wakefield has a lot to answer for. 

[umsami]

This was a fascinating listen on the rise of Autism/history. It's fascinating....goes back to Asperger, Nazis, Leo Kanner, etc. Basically, one reason why it was not diagnosed earlier is that the criteria were extremely strict.  http://www.npr.org/2016/09/09/493148713/neurotribes-examines-the-history-and-myths-of-the-autism-spectrum

 

"And he even suggested at one point later that autistic children, when they grew up, could make good code-breakers for the Third Reich. It could be that, you know, the Nazis obviously did not take Hans Asperger's advice and instead set about to killing children that had those characteristics. It could be that the Allies benefited most from the qualities of what Asperger called autistic intelligence in code breaking during World War II."

Edited October 28, 2016 by umsami

[Crimson Wife]

There is a lot of study these days linking Autism Spectrum Disorder with genetics.  I tend to agree with this theory. 

 

Researchers looking at 2 million children in the Swedish national health register found that autism is 50% genetics and 50% environment. Their findings were published in the Journal of the American Medical Association a couple years ago.  https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140504095619.htm

 

It's obvious from meeting some autistic kids' parents that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, but in plenty of other cases the family seems totally NT with the exception of the one child. And there are definitely WAY more autistic kids in our social circle now compared to when my oldest was a preschooler (and I'm not counting people I met through my SN child).

[Crimson Wife]

The evidence for sharp rise outside of diagonstic changes is cloudy at best. Autism has only been a diagnosis since the '60s, but autistic people almost certainly existed before that.

 

UC Davis MIND Institute has found that the increase in autism is NOT due to better recognition. http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/20090218_autism_environment/

 

[edited to fix link]

Edited October 28, 2016 by Crimson Wife

[umsami]

UC Davis MIND Institute has found that the increase in autism is NOT due to better recognition. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140504095619.htm

 

 

Take a look at the article I posted above.  Diagnostic criteria changed drastically.

 

"Kanner framed autism as a - strictly a condition of the first years of life. So he saw it as a form of childhood psychosis. So basically, the diagnosis was not available to adults until the '80s, really. The children who were diagnosed as autistic - which happened very, very rarely because in order to get a diagnosis of autism in the '40s and '50s, you pretty much had to see either Kanner himself or a colleague of Kanner's. And Kanner was extremely parsimonious about dispensing the diagnosis of what eventually became known as Kanner's syndrome. For instance, he once bragged to another clinician that he turned 9 out of 10 children referred to his office for a diagnosis of autism by other clinicians away without giving them that diagnosis. So what Kanner did was he artificially deflated the numbers."

 

While it may not account for all of the rise, it definitely counts for some.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

UC Davis MIND Institute has found that the increase in autism is NOT due to better recognition. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140504095619.htm

 

I skimmed the abstract but didn't see the part where they say how they studied recognition as a factor. Can you quote a bit of that paragraph to help me find it?

[Crimson Wife]

The unprecedented increase in autism in California is real and cannot be explained away by artificial factors, such as misclassification and criteria changes, according to the results of a large statewide epidemiological study.

 

"Speculation about the increase in autism in California has led some to try to explain it away as a statistical issue or with other factors that artificially inflated the numbers," said UC Davis pediatric epidemiologist Robert S. Byrd, who is the principal investigator on the study. "Instead, we found that autism is on the rise in the state and we still do not know why. The results of this study are, without a doubt, sobering."

 

Key findings of the study are that:

 

• The observed increase in autism cases cannot be explained by a loosening in the criteria used to make the diagnosis.

• Some children reported with mental retardation and not autism did meet criteria for autism, but this misclassification does not appear to have changed over time.

• Because more than 90 percent of the children in the survey are native born, major migration of children into California does not contribute to the increase.

• A diagnosis of mental retardation associated with autism had declined significantly between the two age groups.

• The percentage of parent-reported regression (loss of developmental milestones) does not differ between two age groups.

 

 

"While this study does not identify the cause of autism, it does verify that autism has not been over-reported in the California Regional Center System and that some children diagnosed with mental retardation are, in fact, autistic," Byrd said.

 

Source: http://www.dds.ca.gov/Autism/MINDEpidemiologyStudy.htm

[maize]

Take a look at the article I posted above. Diagnostic criteria changed drastically.

 

"Kanner framed autism as a - strictly a condition of the first years of life. So he saw it as a form of childhood psychosis. So basically, the diagnosis was not available to adults until the '80s, really. The children who were diagnosed as autistic - which happened very, very rarely because in order to get a diagnosis of autism in the '40s and '50s, you pretty much had to see either Kanner himself or a colleague of Kanner's. And Kanner was extremely parsimonious about dispensing the diagnosis of what eventually became known as Kanner's syndrome. For instance, he once bragged to another clinician that he turned 9 out of 10 children referred to his office for a diagnosis of autism by other clinicians away without giving them that diagnosis. So what Kanner did was he artificially deflated the numbers."

 

While it may not account for all of the rise, it definitely counts for some.

Maybe Crimson is looking at more recent data?

[Wheres Toto]

My brother would almost definitely have been diagnosed autistic if he had been born 20 years later.  Instead it was severe ADHD and "minimal brain damage".  I have no real signs of autism.  We were both vaccinated fully on the schedule around then (70's).

 

All three of my kids were vaccinated on schedule except we stopped flu shots a few years ago.

Oldest was in daycare from 7 weeks old.  She shows no traits of autism at all.

My son shows some autism traits, was speech delayed, and was "quirky" from birth.  

My youngest shows some signs of ADHD and anxiety but no autism traits.

 

Haven't seen the movie. Sounds like I wouldn't want to.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Source: http://www.dds.ca.gov/Autism/MINDEpidemiologyStudy.htm

 

Thank you.  I didn't see that anywhere in the abstract,

 

ETA:  I just looked and it seems these are two different papers.  The one you linked previously is from 2014, and I still don't see a reference to the diagnosis rate.  The paper you linked here is from 2002, and I believe there has been research more recently that does find that part of the increase is due to a shift in diagnosis criteria.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26198689

Edited October 29, 2016 by ChocolateReignRemix

[Crimson Wife]

A study by researchers at the UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute has found that the seven- to eight-fold increase in the number children born in California with autism since 1990 cannot be explained by either changes in how the condition is diagnosed or counted — and the trend shows no sign of abating.

 

Published in the January 2009 issue of the journal Epidemiology, results from the study also suggest that research should shift from genetics to the host of chemicals and infectious microbes in the environment that are likely at the root of changes in the neurodevelopment of California’s children.

 

[snip]

 

The methodology eliminated migration as a potential cause of the increase in the number of autism cases. It also revealed that no more than 56 percent of the estimated 600-to-700 percent increase, that is, less than one-tenth of the increased number of reported autism cases, could be attributed to the inclusion of milder cases of autism. Only 24 percent of the increase could be attributed to earlier age at diagnosis.

 

“These are fairly small percentages compared to the size of the increase that we’ve seen in the state,†Hertz-Picciotto said.

Hertz-Picciotto said that the study is a clarion call to researchers and policy makers who have focused attention and money on understanding the genetic components of autism. She said that the rise in cases of autism in California cannot be attributed to the state’s increasingly diverse population because the disorder affects ethnic groups at fairly similar rates.

 

“Right now, about 10 to 20 times more research dollars are spent on studies of the genetic causes of autism than on environmental ones. We need to even out the funding,†Hertz-Picciotto said.

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

The autism epidemic is real and something (or more likely things) in the environment are making kids sick. We need to figure out what and do something about it. It's likely too late for my daughter since she's already 8 but so that other families don't have to suffer like we have.

[momto10blessings]

It was interesting and it magnified my wondering WHY some people are more susceptible to having a terrible reaction. WHY aren't we working towards figuring out the answer to that. WHY aren't vaccine manufacturers held accountable for reactions? WHY aren't they tested and scrutinized nearly as much as pharmaceuticals? WHY hasn't there been a study comparing Vaccinated and unvaccinated children?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

It was interesting and it magnified my wondering WHY some people are more susceptible to having a terrible reaction. WHY aren't we working towards figuring out the answer to that. WHY aren't vaccine manufacturers held accountable for reactions? WHY aren't they tested and scrutinized nearly as much as pharmaceuticals? WHY hasn't there been a study comparing Vaccinated and unvaccinated children?

 

1.)  They are.  Do you really believe there is no research looking for the cause of vaccine reactions?

2.) Because someone having a reaction isn't in and of itself an indication that the manufacturer did anything wrong. 

 

3.) They are.

 

4.) For what?  If you mean for autism, there have been.  Quite a few actually.  And one of the first steps in determining a relationship between vaccines and a selected health issue is first examining incident rates in vx vs un-vax'd samples.

 

Example of a study of vax vs un-vax'd: https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2014/01/22/a-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-study-and-guess-what-vaccinated-kids-do-better-on-tests/

 

My question is why do people on the internet like to ask questions that can easily be answered by searching the internet?

[maize]

It was interesting and it magnified my wondering WHY some people are more susceptible to having a terrible reaction. WHY aren't we working towards figuring out the answer to that. WHY aren't vaccine manufacturers held accountable for reactions? WHY aren't they tested and scrutinized nearly as much as pharmaceuticals? WHY hasn't there been a study comparing Vaccinated and unvaccinated children?

Vaccines are produced and administered with the understanding that there will be occasional negative reactions, sometimes even severe ones. We (the scientific and medical communities) KNOW that these reactions sometimes occur. Vaccines are formulated and tested to maximize efficacy and disease prevention while minimizing negative reactions, but we are not at this point able to eliminate them completely.

 

Medicine works on the principle of doing as much good as possible and as little harm as possible, but with our current knowledge and abilities some harm is inevitable. Medications sometimes cause harm. Surgery sometimes causes harm. These things also do a lot of good and save a lot of lives. That is why we have them. And why we have vaccines. The good outweighs the harm--many, many times over.

 

Smallpox vaccine was one of the ones more likely to result in negative reactions. The CDC estimates that 1-2 people out of every 1 million people given the Smallpox vaccine could be expected to die from the vaccine. Smallpox, by contrast, had a death rate of about 30% of those infected--that is, 300,000 out of every 1 million people infected were likely to die.

 

Clearly the vaccination program that eliminated smallpox worldwide was a major benefit to humanity.

 

But it did kill some people.

Edited October 29, 2016 by maize

[momto10blessings]

I have 2 family members who had terrible adverse reactions and no one was held accountable. The vaccine companies didn't fork over a penny and their lives were just considered collateral damag, plus their families have to pay for their care. In what kind of world is that considered ok?

[momto10blessings]

1.) They are. Do you really believe there is no research looking for the cause of vaccine reactions?

2.) Because someone having a reaction isn't in and of itself an indication that the manufacturer did anything wrong.

 

3.) They are.

 

4.) For what? If you mean for autism, there have been. Quite a few actually. And one of the first steps in determining a relationship between vaccines and a selected health issue is first examining incident rates in vx vs un-vax'd samples.

 

Example of a study of vax vs un-vax'd: https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2014/01/22/a-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-study-and-guess-what-vaccinated-kids-do-better-on-tests/

 

My question is why do people on the internet like to ask questions that can easily be answered by searching the internet?

The OP asked what we learned from the movie so I told her. Sheesh.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The OP asked what we learned from the movie so I told her. Sheesh.

 

Then what you learned is inaccurate.

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I have 2 family members who had terrible adverse reactions and no one was held accountable. The vaccine companies didn't fork over a penny and their lives were just considered collateral damag, plus their families have to pay for their care. In what kind of world is that considered ok?

 

So their claim was rejected by the Vaccine Injury Compensation program? 

Edited October 29, 2016 by ChocolateReignRemix

[Ausmumof3]

The most anti vaxx family I know has one definitely autistic kid and one that has various borderline issues.

[maize]

I have 2 family members who had terrible adverse reactions and no one was held accountable. The vaccine companies didn't fork over a penny and their lives were just considered collateral damag, plus their families have to pay for their care. In what kind of world is that considered ok?

  

So their claim was rejected by the Vaccine Injury Compensation program?

 

I also want to know if they filed a claim with the Vaccine Injuries Compensation program? That is the established route to pursue compensation for vaccine injuries in the US. Attorney fees are typically included in the settlement when a claim is approved.

[maize]

For those who want the vaccine companies to be held accountable for adverse reactions, I have a question. If a person has an anaphylactic allergic reaction to food--say, peanuts--should the farmer who produced that food be held accountable?

 

Wouldn't that result in farmers choosing not to grow peanuts because they are known to be hazardous to a small minority of people?

 

We need vaccines, I don't want to run the manufacturing companies out of business. That is why the government has taken over compensation for vaccine injuries.

Edited October 29, 2016 by maize