Intermediate/Advanced level French

[Roadrunner]

Aggg. I keep failing at my quest to find all in one program for upper level French. Is there anything out there that incorporates good audio and has press clippings, literature, history….. European publishers maybe? 

I am less worried about grammar. I can find grammar workbooks separately that are good. I know I can pull this off myself and that's precisely what we have been attempting to do, but I don't think I am happy with this arrangement. 

Everything I see around is French 1, 2, 3 for high school. I want something beyond that, if possible. 

What are my options?

 

 

[madteaparty]

I think you just need the three different CLE books (civilization, grammar and and the other one). No real audio though.

I have this and it is gorgeous but even with the teacher book we can't do it bc no audio and my own French is horrid. I weep a little inside when I pass by this one on the shelf ;( https://www.amazon.fr/dp/2091717428/ref=pe_386181_51767671_TE_dp_2

[Roadrunner]

I think you just need the three different CLE books (civilization, grammar and and the other one). No real audio though.

I have this and it is gorgeous but even with the teacher book we can't do it bc no audio and my own French is horrid. I weep a little inside when I pass by this one on the shelf ;( https://www.amazon.fr/dp/2091717428/ref=pe_386181_51767671_TE_dp_2

Now you make me regret not buying it when I had a chance.

 

You know how people collect writing curriculum here, I collect French ones. 😞 Sometimes I am not sure what it is that I am really after, but it helps to think out loud here. My last thread on French 3 online class persuaded me to go for a tutor for the spoken part. Maybe this one will lead me somewhere too.

 

I actually own Civilization, Grammaire, and Communication CLE books. 😳 Shame on me. 😧

[madteaparty]

you can have mine, we can't use them anyway 😢

[RootAnn]

My dd found that some of her italki.com tutors used clippings from magazines. I wonder if you could find a native tutor who would craft at least part of a class for you. 

 

Doesn't 8's daughter use a Francophone as a tutor? You might see if hers is local or skype & what she recommends.

[Loesje22000]

Belgic all-in-one programs are pretty grammar focused and very step by step.

 

This is our daughter using:

http://www.cestbienca.noordhoff.nl (french for adults, we started with book 2 (B1/B2)

Language camp

Mary Glasgow Magazine + MP3

Terre de Lettres

French movies / series

http://www.averbode.be/7enpoche

Erreurs courantes

A small book with all the irregular verbs (it is common here to use that for languages)

 

And I own - but have not started yet - a 'history of literature' course with one basic book with literature terms and the overall timeline, and additional books for each language with specific literature fragments for that language

[Laura Corin]

You've been using Galore Park, haven't you?  In the English system, the next stage would be A levels.  A search on Amazon.co.uk might yield something.  I should say, however, that I don't think Britain teaches languages well (Galore Park is something of an exception) so I don't know what you will find.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Laura Corin

[Loesje22000]

Something like Alter Ego 5 (C1/C2) ?

http://www.hachettefle.com/adultes/pages/catalogue/fiche-livre/alter-ego-5-livre-de-l-eleve-cd-audio-classe-mp3-1557974.html

 

Is available at www.amazon.fr but here can you find the 'look inside' option.

[8filltheheart]

What do think her actual level is? A student functioning at advanced-low would be considered French major college graduation level. The difference between intermediate level (functional) and advanced (participatory) is significant. For example, during an oral proficiency interview questions at the intermediate level would be general: family, where you live, weather, etc. During an advanced interview, the questions would be more complex and less concrete topics like questions about politics or reasons behind decisions, etc.

 

Those distinctions are significantly different than the difference between French 3 and AP level French. Even though AP claims that students taking the AP and passing are at an intermediate high level, colleges we have visited strongly disagree. AP students can place out of up to 4 semesters of classes. But they are not advanced enough to skip introductory 300 level grammar, composition, or conversation classes.

 

It is confusing. It is something we have been navigating now for over a yr as we have visited various college campuses and tried to assess their programs. Right now we know Dd is advanced-low, but she would need more extensive OPI testing to determine if her level is adv-mid. At this point colleges have told her that when she arrives on campus they will arrange testing. We have also learned that baseline objectives vary by language. Her Russian is not even close to being as good as her French, but she may actually be at the same level in both (according to university depts we have visited.)

 

Anyway, she has never used a program. She has used bits and pieces of different things for grammar, but by far, reading and listening have been far more influential in her progression. She watches the French news every single day. She watches movies in French. She reads novels in French. She writes essays in French.

 

Without understanding her actual level, French in Action is the closest "package" I can think of that includes audio.But, if she is truly at an advanced-low level, FiA would be below her needs. TV5Monde would be my biggest recommendation for listening. When Dd first started listening, she would go find English related news to see if she had understood correctly. The Flash news is great for increasing their listening comprehension bc the speech is quick. French radio is another good way to improve their listening comprehension bc there are no visual clues.

 

Movies in French are a simpler way to start. Watching movies she knows in English so the French can be understood in context. For example, Disney's children's movies are almost all dubbed in French. We would go to the library and look at the back and just check out the ones that said they did have a French audio track. She then progressed to adult movies dubbed in French. A lot of the top movie hits are dubbed in French. She eventually progressed to actual French movies.

 

The same approach to literature has worked.

 

For French history, this yr she is reading https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/2262060894/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Her tutor dicusses literature, politics, religion, etc with her and reads her essays. Her tutor is local, but Skype works.

[madteaparty]

So, eightfilltheheart--did she not study grammar past FIA?

 

We don't study English grammar explicitly but find we really need to with French, over and over again :(

[8filltheheart]

So, eightfilltheheart--did she not study grammar past FIA?

 

We don't study English grammar explicitly but find we really need to with French, over and over again :(

I showed your question to dd and her response was people don't understand how I homeschool. ;) It is a list of whatever she needed to do to master what she needed. I'm on my phone so she'll respond tonight with resources.

[J-rap]

When my dd entered college, she was able to pass out of all of the level-courses (such as French 1, French 2, etc.) and move directly into French Lit., etc.  What helped her the most before then was immersion.  

 

She had three years of French in high school (she did high school in 3 years).  Two of those years were either online or via television.  She also watched French movies (movies with either English subtitles or movies dubbed in French which she had already seen in English), read English books that were translated into French (that she had already read in English), listened to French online radio stations, etc.  

 

But what really helped her was when she spent a semester in a type of French immersion school following high school.  She then went to college the following year, where she also did a semester abroad at a French-speaking school in Senegal.  Each immersion experience really pushed her to the next level of fluency.  She is now a teacher in France!

[Roadrunner]

O.K. so I will start mumbling again to sort of answer everybody's questions. 

8 - I am not sure which level they are. I know it's all confusing, and I know there is a huge jump between AP and other ones. The trouble I have is my kids are young, 11 and 10. I am posting here because otherwise I get recommendations for Getting Started with French and resources like that. Their age pretty much prevents me using resources targeted for adults not because of their level of French, but because of maturity of themes in these books. I hope I am making sense. I downloaded a sample of AP textbook and while they can read the article and understand the vocab, they can't participate in it. The first chapter asked a student to discuss how the idea of friendship changed with advent of Facebook. They don't have Facebook. They have an idea what it is, but couldn't discuss that topic in English. It's just not really appropriate for them. So I go to lower level ones and find those have little to teach in terms of vocab and grammar. 

what level they are? Who knows, but they gorge on Le Petit Nicolas cartoons and understand them with no problem. They read the book with little difficulty. They are reading Le Petit Prince now. They can communicate in French, and they are consistently working on grammar. I have debated about FiA, and I have decided we won't get much out of it. They have seen some videos of later chapters online and have no trouble understanding them. Of courses there will be vacab to learn there as well, but I am not sure it's a right course of action.

I received Tresor du Temps (apparently French 4 textbook that some schools use for AP as well), and that might work because it is focused on history and literature as oppose to social topics. But then again, it is not an all encompassing text given it's focus. 

 

Laura - yes, we have done Galore and loved it! I wish there was a continuation. I looked at IB French books and I am not finding an audio component. Those are also topic wise probably not a good match for us for similar reasons as AP. 

 

Loesje - It's funny, but I have decided that we might find more luck with European materials. Some of the programs you linked I spent time searching up last night. I thought about picking one and starting with B1 and staying our course. I just need to figure out which ones are targeting kids as oppose to adults. At least I will have something that's clearly leveled. 

 

We are in a situation that next year when my DS is in 7th, he can get a high school credit for a foreign language. This brings another question. Where on earth do I place him? We don't plan on starting the second language (this is a STEM kid), but just plan on working steadily on French until he graduates. 

I hope my mumbling makes some sense. And thanks everybody for helping me think this all out. 

Edited October 22, 2016 by Roadrunner

[Loesje22000]

I can link to some Belgic textbook series if you like.

Flanders have textbook FLE for grade 5-12, the Netherlands reach an higher end level in less years though

 

But I wonder if it might be time to switch to French for Native Speakers.

That is our way of filling the gap between Age and working level.

I have an older edition of :

http://enseignants.nathan.fr/catalogue/terre-des-lettres-6e-livre-de-l-eleve-9782091717159.html

This is part one of the serie, if it is too hard, A mots contes is the name of the levels before.

[Emerald Stoker]

But I wonder if it might be time to switch to French for Native Speakers.

That is our way of filling the gap between Age and working level.

 

We have found this to be true as well (and French-from-France for native speakers curriculum is beautiful!). At this point, we're in the 4e level of the Magnard* series for literature (Jardin des lettres) and Histoire/Géographie, as well as using the intermediate or advanced levels in CLE's vocabulary, grammar, and communication books. We experienced a huge leap forward in the children's French when we switched over from French-for-North-American-Anglophones to French-from-France. Of course people's experiences will vary, but for us at least, this was true, and the switch to French curriculum some years ago is one of our homeschool choices about which I have been most pleased.

 

What has made this work well is my husband's beautiful French (he has near-native fluency, and his accent is far superior to mine!).

 

*Since it's a national curriculum, I don't think it matters much which publisher you select--pick the one that's easiest for you to get or that appeals to you most.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Emerald Stoker

[8filltheheart]

My thoughts are that you give them progressively harder books to read. At this point vocabulary and nuances are the goal. Like J-rap, reading translated novels really broadened her vocab. The Chronicles of Narnia were a great place to start. Though even at that level, that is still an intermediate level. You can progress from there to books like Maupassant's stories.

 

Dd read Perrault's short stories which were difficult bc of the vocabulary. Then she read Les Mis.... super challenging.

 

Vocabulary is the goal. In the spring she is switching to economic journal articles to focus on business vocabulary.

 

Movies are great for more common expressions and structures that are more in speech than writing.

Edited October 22, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[Roadrunner]

My thoughts are that you give them progressively harder books to read. At this point vocabulary and nuances are the goal. Like J-rap, reading translated novels really broadened her vocab. The Chronicles of Narnia were a great place to start. Though even at that level, that is still an intermediate level. You can progress from there to books like Maupassant's stories.

 

Dd read Perrault's short stories which were difficult bc of the vocabulary. Then she read Les Mis.... super challenging.

 

Vocabulary is the goal. In the spring she is switching to economic journal articles to focus on business vocabulary.

 

Movies are great for more common expressions and structures that are more in speech than writing.

How could I forget Maupassant!

 

 

I am so impressed by your DD. Les Mis is hard enough in English, so for a student of French to manage it in the original deserves a loud applause! I could only hope my boys could come close to that level one day. Is it O.K. if I ask how many hours a week she spends on French? 

[Roadrunner]

A little update. After buying different programs, I decided to go with French in Action. My kids are not happy. They are making voices, faces, anything to show their contempt at how easy this program is. Yet I think there is value in working through it. My youngest is in 4th grade, so we aren't in a rush, and we will continue reading (Maupassant, Exupery….). I don't know what I am asking here really, but I want some reassurance that I am not crazy for picking FiA with kids who already understand most of this. We plan on taking no more than a year to run through the program, and yes, we are using all the components. 

[madteaparty]

I still don't know why you can't make your full program those graded readers that come with CDs and also with comprehension questions after each chapter. Have them copy a paragraph, add one of your grammar books and you got reading, listening, writing covered. We do half each chapter per day plus one grammar lesson.

Edited January 11, 2017 by madteaparty

[Roadrunner]

I still don't know why you can't make your full program those graded readers that come with CDs and also with comprehension questions after each chapter. Have them copy a paragraph, add one of your grammar books and you got reading, listening, writing covered. We do half each chapter per day plus one grammar lesson.

Oh, I am making them do one of those in addition - Civilization one. 😂

So it's FiA, CLE + grammar text, + lit.

I think what charms me about FiA is all the dialogue. It seems just so complete with interactive oral component, which right now is being delivered with angered sarcasm.

And I haven't received my DELF level B workbooks. Completely forgot about those. Sigh.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Roadrunner

[madteaparty]

Oh, I am making them do one of those in addition - Civilization one. 😂

So it's FiA, CLE + grammar text, + lit.

I think what charms me about FiA is all the dialogue. It seems just so complete with interactive oral component, which right now is being delivered with angered sarcasm.

And I haven't received my DELF level B workbooks. Completely forgot about those. Sigh.

So I personally don't see the need (nor the time?) for FiA, but then DS gets his conversation once a week with tutor plus reading the cartoon books which from what I gather is the characters yelling back and forth at each other. You're doing a lot more French than us ;) Edited January 12, 2017 by madteaparty

[Roadrunner]

So I personally don't see the need (nor the time?) for FiA, but then DS gets his conversation once a week with tutor plus reading the cartoon books which from what I gather is the characters yelling back and forth at each other. You're doing a lot more French than us ;)

 

Now that I think about it, I think I am a bit paranoid that there are conversational (common expressions and such) aspects and some ear training that maybe we missed out a bit. So FiA seems like me plugging in holes. I don't know. The Civilization book is so ridiculously easy, we use it one day a week to get kids to familiarize themselves with geography and the functioning of the country more than just a language. Yes, Bretagne is a region.....  I think we can knock out one chapter of FiA in two days, one day Civilization, two days lit. 

Edited January 12, 2017 by Roadrunner

[madteaparty]

Now that I think about it, I think I am a bit paranoid that there are conversational (common expressions and such) aspects and some ear training that maybe we missed out a bit. So FiA seems like me plugging in holes. I don't know. The Civilization book is so ridiculously easy, we use it one day a week to get kids to familiarize themselves with geography and the functioning of the country more than just a language. Yes, Bretagne is a region..... I think we can knock out one chapter of FiA in two days, one day Civilization, two days lit.

Hmm, DS wouldn't know about Bretagne. He does know about Le Pen's politics and Beujolais Noveau...maybe there's holes here too but another curric, perish the thought! Edited January 12, 2017 by madteaparty

[Roadrunner]

Hmm, DS wouldn't know about Bretagne. He does know about Le Pen's politics and Beujolais Noveau...maybe there's holes here too but another curric, perish the thought!

 

Is he getting it from watching news? Or are you reading magazine clippings? 

[madteaparty]

Is he getting it from watching news? Or are you reading magazine clippings?

Tutor for commiserating on politics and also he's picked up a few things from that N'est pas sorcier...he does get J'aime lire magazine but I think he just fake-reads that one.😒 Edited January 12, 2017 by madteaparty

[Loesje22000]

Dd has this magazine:

http://fr.maryglasgowplus.com/subscribe/francais/chez_nous

For current events and modern French. (As opposite to French only used in Literature)

 

What is that Civilization book you are talking about?

[madteaparty]

Dd has this magazine:

http://fr.maryglasgowplus.com/subscribe/francais/chez_nous

For current events and modern French. (As opposite to French only used in Literature)

 

What is that Civilization book you are talking about?

One of these: http://www.cle-inter.com/index.php?page=detailactualite&idactu=226

[Loesje22000]

One of these: http://www.cle-inter.com/index.php?page=detailactualite&idactu=226

Thanks!

We might need that for the 12th grade exam.

Although I have never seen that serie of Cle before...

[madteaparty]

Thanks!

We might need that for the 12th grade exam.

Although I have never seen that serie of Cle before...

For the other CLE books in that series (grammar, vocab), there were PDFs online. I still bought the book but FYI if you want to look at what the pages look like. (I don't have this one, just grammar and the vocab ones).

[MamaSprout]

This is a good resource for French news, etc. https://savoirs.rfi.fr/apprendre-enseigner

 

The Journal in francis facile is a good way to bridge the gap to regular news, and there are other resources there, as well.

 

Also, maybe your dc is beyond this, but French Brainpop has a free movie of the day with quizzes, etc. https://fr.brainpop.com/

 

We've had good luck buying French magazines from an Ebay seller who lives close to the US and drives across the border to mail them once every week or two. Keeps the cost reasonable. She mostly sells library discards, but they are usually in good condition. Search by magazine title.

[MamaSprout]

We do like this series: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_12?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=cours+de+langue+et+de+civilisation+fran%C3%A7aises&sprefix=cours+de+lan%2Cstripbooks%2C290&crid=1RTVSMEBSTZUM

 

Inexpensive and all in French. Definitely need to supplement with current materials though. It still contains francs and inkwells.

[MamaSprout]

Dd has this magazine:

http://fr.maryglasgowplus.com/subscribe/francais/chez_nous

For current events and modern French. (As opposite to French only used in Literature)

 

These look great.

[Roadrunner]

One of these: http://www.cle-inter.com/index.php?page=detailactualite&idactu=226

Yes, that's it, only I wish I had an advanced book. We have debutant one, which I bought long time ago, and it's too easy. I decided easyvis OK sometimes.

[Loesje22000]

For the other CLE books in that series (grammar, vocab), there were PDFs online. I still bought the book but FYI if you want to look at what the pages look like. (I don't have this one, just grammar and the vocab ones).

I know they have a grammar and vocab serie too, but never heard about the civ. books.

They might be useful to prepare the oral exam.

Any idea how 'intermediair' or 'avance' relates to the European reference work?

[learners4life]

French in Action is great!  You are watching it for free, right? Workbooks are available - I remember seeing them but we were in the last few episodes by then, so don't know how good they are.  FIA is good for exactly the reasons you say.  

 

Canal Academie has very good audio.  If your children are using a French tutor, it is good to listen to speakers with a wide variety of intonation.

[Roadrunner]

French in Action is great! You are watching it for free, right? Workbooks are available - I remember seeing them but we were in the last few episodes by then, so don't know how good they are. FIA is good for exactly the reasons you say.

 

Canal Academie has very good audio. If your children are using a French tutor, it is good to listen to speakers with a wide variety of intonation.

We got the used textbooks and workbooks very inexpensively. I found the rest for free online.

 

Thanks for the tip on Canal Academie! I have never heard of them before.

[madteaparty]

I know they have a grammar and vocab serie too, but never heard about the civ. books.

They might be useful to prepare the oral exam.

Any idea how 'intermediair' or 'avance' relates to the European reference work?

No idea on the European standards but, for grammar the intermediare level seems the most extensive.

[Roadrunner]

I know they have a grammar and vocab serie too, but never heard about the civ. books.

They might be useful to prepare the oral exam.

Any idea how 'intermediair' or 'avance' relates to the European reference work?

So the debutant book is A1, which puts it in the beginner category. I am really confused at this because you can view the samples online and it's a solid text. What makes this easy is the knowledge of English, since so many "high-end" words are shared by both languages. It's certainly not for somebody who is just beginning to learn the language. I have noticed that new editions don't have DELF designations. However based on online samples, they deal with harder concepts. So if debutant talks about geography, calendar.... avance talks about individuality.... it's best to just look at the table of content and samples online to see what you want. For a high schooler the avance level is fine.

[MamaSprout]

A little OT (since it seems to be my day for it). I finally went and looked at the French in Action videos. What workbooks would would I need? Does it matter what editions I get?

 

How does the level compare with Breaking the Barrier series, roughly? We are about done with book one (and she's used lots of other French "stuff", too, BthB is just our spine).

Edited January 17, 2017 by elladarcy

[Roadrunner]

A little OT (since it seems to be my day for it). I finally went and looked at the French in Action videos. What workbooks would would I need? Does it matter what editions I get?

 

How does the level compare with Breaking the Barrier series, roughly? We are about done with book one (and she's used lots of other French "stuff", too, BthB is just our spine).

We got one textbook (second edition) that covers all the lessons, but apparently there are some that only cover half. I don't know how this compares to BthB, but the latter is mostly grammar, isn't it? When I looked at it, it seemed to not have an audio component comparable to FiA.

 

I am just going to list what we got:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0300058217/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0300058225/ref=ya_st_dp_summary

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0300058233/ref=ya_st_dp_summary

 

You also need an expensive audio tape, but you can get it for free online. I am on the road now, but will send you a PM when I get home.

https://www.amazon.com/French-Action-Digital-Audio-Program/dp/0300087470/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484699364&sr=8-https://www.amazon.com/French-Action-Digital-Program-Language/dp/0300087489/ref=pd_sim_14_5?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0300087489&pd_rd_r=5NXFE60VM1MSDTTEXHDY&pd_rd_w=eNTa7&pd_rd_wg=TQ6ES&psc=1&refRID=5NXFE60VM1MSDTTEXHDY1&keywords=French+in+Action+audio

Edited January 18, 2017 by Roadrunner

[Roadrunner]

I know they have a grammar and vocab serie too, but never heard about the civ. books.

They might be useful to prepare the oral exam.

Any idea how 'intermediair' or 'avance' relates to the European reference work?

Have you seen CLE Literature program? They have debutant, intermediaire, and avance levels.

Again, I am absolutely puzzled at their designation of debutant since the text is really hard.

Just wondering your thoughts if you ever worked with those books.

[MamaSprout]

We got one textbook (second edition) that covers all the lessons, but apparently there are some that only cover half. I don't know how this compares to BthB, but the latter is mostly grammar, isn't it? When I looked at it, it seemed to not have an audio component comparable to FiA.

 

 

 

BthB is grammar heavy. We use the audio in the iBook, which is very targeted to each lesson, although there is some conversation practice. I think BthB covers more grammar than most first year high school text books, at least it covers more than the one or two I picked up second hand. I think French in Action would be a nice complement.

[Loesje22000]

Have you seen CLE Literature program? They have debutant, intermediaire, and avance levels.

Again, I am absolutely puzzled at their designation of debutant since the text is really hard.

Just wondering your thoughts if you ever worked with those books.

I didn't know this exists!

 

I think you can 'translate' debutant, intermediate et avance as 'book 1,2,3'

Without knowing if you are talking about what level (middle school, highschool or college).

 

Literature requirements in Belgium & the Netherlands are very different, so I have lost my idea of 'normal'. I think these serie is geared to French in a B2 - C1 setting or French as second language and not as foreign language. DD could read the first texts in debutant, and some of the texts in avance are required in grade 12 in the Netherlands (french as foreign language but with stronger literature component) dd considered the first texts of debutant easier then Terre de Lettre 4 (grade 9, native speaker). Very subjective indication, but maybe still some help.