Testing and prep?

[skimomma]

Dd is in 8th grade and I am just starting to wrap my brain around what high school might look like.  I have scoured the pinned threads about all sorts of topics.  The topic of the week for me is testing.

 

I understand that there are all sorts of testing and I see that many take the tests multiple times.  I am having trouble figuring out what makes sense in my dd's situation.

 

First question:  Can someone who has been through this lay out what the bare minimum a bright but not gifted college-bound high schooler should consider in regards to testing and the timing of that testing?  For instance, some 11th graders we know are taking the PSAT but I thought students take the SAT in 11th grade?  Then I know of 9th graders taking the PSAT.  I'm so confused!  And what is the PSAT for anyway?!?

 

Some background that might be helpful....  Dd will likely take some DE classes.  My guess is that she will not be in the running for NM scholarships but it is not out of the question.  We have no idea what sort of college she may want to attend but it is somewhat likely she will at least start at our local university in which she will have taken DE classes from and which is selective but nowhere near ivy-level-selective.  There is also a significant, yet slight, possibility that she would pursue going abroad for college.

 

Second question:  I hate the idea of spending precious time on studying for these tests.  I am OK with slightly lower scores in trade for saved time.  Is this crazy talk?  Aside from a practice test or two and perhaps some very brief discussions on test strategy, I would prefer to not spend time on studying for these tests.  Anyone do this or would this be so far out of the range of what most students do that she would be at a significant disadvantage?

[wapiti]

Disclaimer:  my oldest is only in 10th and we are learning as we go.  What follows is what I've gleaned so far though my ears are open.

 

There are levels of prep and perhaps a couple of practice tests will be sufficient - or maybe not.  That's all I did (and dh too) back in the old days and we both attended selective schools, though the world of college admissions seems far more competitive than it was 30 yrs ago.

 

For a bright student (gifted or not), personally, I'd be very reluctant to forego an increase in scores by saving time not prepping.  It's impossible to predict a child's score potential because preparation can make a huge difference for certain students which, in turn, can make a huge difference in college acceptances and scholarships.  This won't be true for everyone, but my sense is that it's often true at the upper ends of the score ranges, that prep can make a big difference for students who are bright but perhaps need fine tuning or aren't as fast as others.

 

Example from a friend:  bright son took the ACT cold, got a 28, took a prep class at a local tutoring center and then got a 34, which net him a half-tuition scholarship at an in-state school for engineering (his family is full-pay and has several younger siblings).  That's many thousands of dollars, say 60-80k saved over 4 yrs, for having taken the time (and money, in his case, for the class) for what, a month of test prep?  There are other schools where I think that score would even net a full-tuition scholarship.  Kids cannot earn that kind of cash in a job.

 

PSAT in junior year is for the chance at National Merit Scholarship.  There are some threads here about that.  Prior to junior year, it is merely for practice.  It is akin to the SAT and will help give some idea of the student's scoring potential - a nice option if it would help your student to have a full, official test sitting without the ramifications that come with it.  Compare the scores to the scores needed for the local selective university you are considering.

 

Our current plan is for the 10th grader to take the prep class for the SAT this summer.  Then take the SAT in the early fall of 11th grade, probably Oct or Nov.  The PSAT is in mid-Oct, so the prep should also be applicable to that as well.  Then if needed, she can take the SAT again in the early spring of 11th gr.  As there will probably be APs and maybe SAT2s in May/June of 11th gr, it would be nice to be finished with the SAT.  Avoiding a need to take the SAT or ACT in fall of senior year should relieve some stress during that busy time.

Edited October 25, 2016 by wapiti

[regentrude]

Bare minimum for college bound student: Act or SAT (either suffices).

Taking test early allows for do-overs. Absolutely latest test date are the fall dates in senior year. Ideally, take in fall Jr year so that student can repeat in spring.

 

The PSAT in 11th only makes sense for a student who has a shot at national Merit Scholar. For a student who is unlikely to reach that target, it can be skipped. The score is not reported to colleges.

 

SAT 2 subject tests test high school level knowledge. AP tests test college level knowledge. Either can serve to validate mommy grades. Some colleges require a certain number of SAT2s. They are best taken immediately upon completion of the relevant course.

 

Second question:  I hate the idea of spending precious time on studying for these tests.  I am OK with slightly lower scores in trade for saved time.  Is this crazy talk?  Aside from a practice test or two and perhaps some very brief discussions on test strategy, I would prefer to not spend time on studying for these tests.  Anyone do this or would this be so far out of the range of what most students do that she would be at a significant disadvantage

 

Time spent studying for the ACT/SAT can pay huge financial dividends in terms of scholarships. Thousands of dollars. Definitely more than one could earn with any kind of job in the same amount of time.

 

Time spent studying for the AP exams has a good ROI as well. Not having to take a 4 credit class means approx $1,600 for in state students at our local state uni, much more for out of state public or private college. 

 

Time spent studying for the subject tests can make the difference between getting in and not getting in.

 

You don't need months and months of study. But a few weeks of targeted test prep can pay off handsomely.

Edited October 21, 2016 by regentrude

[MarkT]

Dd is in 8th grade and I am just starting to wrap my brain around what high school might look like.  I have scoured the pinned threads about all sorts of topics.  The topic of the week for me is testing.

 

I understand that there are all sorts of testing and I see that many take the tests multiple times.  I am having trouble figuring out what makes sense in my dd's situation.

 

First question:  Can someone who has been through this lay out what the bare minimum a bright but not gifted college-bound high schooler should consider in regards to testing and the timing of that testing?  For instance, some 11th graders we know are taking the PSAT but I thought students take the SAT in 11th grade?  Then I know of 9th graders taking the PSAT.  I'm so confused!  And what is the PSAT for anyway?!?

 

 

typical sequence:

9th grade   Fall or Spring PSAT 10 - ONLY if you need some kind of standardized test to backup "parent grades" or love these kind of tests

10th grade Fall PSAT - for practice especially if student is expected to compete for the National Merit Scholarship

11th grade Fall PSAT - for "score", for most students it is just a practice for the SAT - I do recommend - not expensive and CB gives excellent online feedback

11th grade Spring SAT and/or ACT 

12th grade Fall  SAT or ACT retake to raise score (optional)

Edited October 22, 2016 by MarkT

[Kendall]

The PSAT is an inexpensive test(I paid $16 this fall) and gives them practice in sitting in one spot and testing for that long. And for us gave the kids the good student discount since our car insurance company wouldn't take parent grades.

 

I have the same opinion as the original poster regarding testing in the elementary and junior high years.  I don’t even take the 2-3 days to give those tests, much less prep for them. But the PSAT/ACT/SAT are a different matter.  As other posters have said, they are potentially much more profitable than a job-this has been the case for my oldest 3.  My 2 oldest (all 3 oldest were NMF) did some practice tests, but not much.  My 3^rd son prepared for the ACT on his own and with my help, and he raised his ACT score from a 28 practice test (27 real score the year before) to a 35.  He spent several hours 4-5 days a week for about 3-4 weeks.  Well worth the time in scholarship money. 

 

 

I have also come to see some benefit for students who aren’t as strong.  Some benefit in taking the time to prepare that is. The math, though limited in scope, gives a mixed practice and also requires logical thinking skills and forces them to look at the bigger picture rather than just “what algorithm do I useâ€.  It has been a good way to review some of her algebra and prior skills.  The reading section has forced us to really look at the text to see what it says and has helped fill in missing background knowledge.  It has also taught me that she doesn’t know how to read graphs-something I really didn’t have to teach to my older kids.  There are some stupid and/or nitpicking questions on the tests, but evaluating that is profitable, too.  This is a new opinion for me.  I previously felt that a good education is the best prep, and that worked out fine for my oldest two.

 

 

Of my NMF kids 2 took the PSAT starting in 9th grade, 1 in 10th.  I'm not sure that extra year really mattered.  One of my kids did not have a great score in 9th and wasn't in NM range in 10th (20 points away).  He surprised us in 11th by going up 30 points (and surprised himself!).  Not sure how that happened.  I share that to say that you just never know.

 

 

[skimomma]

As usual, lots of great advice.  Thanks!  

 

This helps me to start to map things out.

 

Is it still the case that some colleges only take one or the other of ACT and SAT or are they now universal?  If they are both generally accepted everywhere, is there any reason to take both?

 

Good to know about SAT 2 tests.  I will have to research what might be needed.  It is so hard to say this far out when I really have no idea what dd might want to do 3+ years from now.  But she is currently taking Latin 3 so the SAT 2 for that is something that we might have to figure out sooner than later.

 

I am not 100% opposed to test prep.  It sounds like I need to be more open to it.  I don't want to miss out on financial rewards even if I have little concern about specific scores being needed to get into the schools dd is likely to be interested in.

 

Unfortunately, I am dealing with local school districts that are downright hostile to homeschoolers so that is another factor.  I know anyone can sign up for the ACT and SAT but what about the PSAT?  If that requires any sort of cooperation from the school district, I can just about guarantee it will be a bitter fight.

[regentrude]

Is it still the case that some colleges only take one or the other of ACT and SAT or are they now universal?  If they are both generally accepted everywhere, is there any reason to take both?

 

I have not heard of any college that does not accept either. The reason to take both is that some students perform better on one than on the other.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, I am dealing with local school districts that are downright hostile to homeschoolers so that is another factor.  I know anyone can sign up for the ACT and SAT but what about the PSAT?  If that requires any sort of cooperation from the school district, I can just about guarantee it will be a bitter fight.

Edited October 24, 2016 by regentrude