Narrations are killing us

[JusDelenH]

We are using Writing with Skill 1 for my 10 year old. We are still stuck on narrations. She just cannot seem to do it on her own. We have moved from passages in the text and tried other books to narrate from. It just not work on paper for her. She can do it verbally and with my holding her hand at each step. I do not want to move on until she masters this skill. Anything else I can try?

[RootAnn]

So, narrations are meant to be a means to an end. They are meant to teach your kid how to retell in different words, summarize, remember things chronologically, and identify the main ideas in a reading.

 

If your kid can't do these, go with smaller selections (one paragraph needing just the main idea picked out) until she gets the idea. It is often easier to do with science or history pieces than with a story.

 

I wouldn't hold her back- just work on it a little every day across the curriculum.

 

Edited because of a bizarre auto-correct.

Edited October 20, 2016 by RootAnn

[Bluegoat]

We are using Writing with Skill 1 for my 10 year old. We are still stuck on narrations. She just cannot seem to do it on her own. We have moved from passages in the text and tried other books to narrate from. It just not work on paper for her. She can do it verbally and with my holding her hand at each step. I do not want to move on until she masters this skill. Anything else I can try?

 

Are you doing summarizing narrations?  You might try going back to narrations that simply retell.  It's difficult to summarize when you can't hold the details in mind to some extent.

 

Also - is she reading the texts only?  If so, reading out loud to herself might help if she is a more aural lerner.

[JusDelenH]

The way I have been teaching it is that she should be able to answer all the question words in no more than 5 sentences. Then we moved to putting them in chronological order. We've been working on this for the past month and I'm just really ready to say screw it.

 

 

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[SanDiegoMom]

Two things I have done to help with narrations -- I switched to a book of folktales and fairytales that were 2-3 pages, because they found having an entire story arc was easier to summarize than a passage from a book that they were unfamiliar with.  (and to be honest, the passages in WWS are rather difficult) And I rely heavily on the questions SWB provides in the Instructor manual to help them shape their summary.  Mine aren't great at it, and we are up to week 11 now, but some weeks are better than others.  

 

Oh and reading the passage out loud usually helps mine understand it better. 

[stlily]

You may consider going back to Writing With Ease Level 4.  Writing With Skill is a very challenging writing program. The narration lessons in WWS are meant to be review.  If your student is struggling, it may be a good idea to go back because it isn't going to get any easier.  

 

If you look on page 1 of WWS, SWB says, "First you'll review how to write narrations. The ability to summarize a piece of narrative fiction (storytelling) in three or four sentences is a basic skill which should be in place before you begin work on outlining...The first week of the course walks you step by step through the process of summarizing and writing down a narration. These skills should be review for you. If you have a great deal of difficulty with the narrations, you may need to spend a few weeks working on this skill before continuing on with Writing with Skill. Additional narration practice is provided in Writing with Ease, Level Four."

 

If you choose to continue with WWS I would do with the other moms recommend and that is, have your student read the passage out loud, read it more than once, or read the passage with her/to her. I typed up this checklist for my daughter to use as a reminder (and for me as well:).  Hope this helps.

 

 

Summarizing a Narrative (Story-Telling)

Narration (3-4 Sentence Summary) Rubric

â–¡ Write down a few phrases or short sentences that remind you of things that happened in the story, focusing on the main events.

 

â–¡ Write down the events in same order that they happened in the story.

 

â–¡ Combine the phrases/short sentences into 3-4 complete sentences.

 

â–¡ Say your 3-4 complete sentences out loud several times before writing them down.

 

â–¡ Write your sentences down and proofread them.

 

 

[Farrar]

I strongly agree with going back to really small, easy passages to isolate the skill. We used picture books for a little while in fifth grade. And fairy tales, like someone suggested above. I also got a cheapie summarizing workbook at one point for one of my ds and that was helpful. I thought it was brain numbingly easy - and it was for him too... but only after he'd done about a third of it and something had clicked about picking out "key ideas" and so forth.

 

I haven't used WWS, so I can't say about that specifically... but it's possible it's the wrong program for her. Or that you need to back up, as suggested above.

[Another Lynn]

I strongly agree with going back to really small, easy passages to isolate the skill. We used picture books for a little while in fifth grade. And fairy tales, like someone suggested above. I also got a cheapie summarizing workbook at one point for one of my ds and that was helpful. I thought it was brain numbingly easy - and it was for him too... but only after he'd done about a third of it and something had clicked about picking out "key ideas" and so forth.

 

I haven't used WWS, so I can't say about that specifically... but it's possible it's the wrong program for her. Or that you need to back up, as suggested above.

 

Just curious what workbook?  I think it would be handy to have something ready-made on hand to practice this.  

[Farrar]

Just curious what workbook?  I think it would be handy to have something ready-made on hand to practice this.  

 

Purchased during Dollar Days one year:

https://shop.scholastic.com/shop/en/teacherstore/product/35-Reading-Passages-for-Comprehension-Main-Ideas--Summarizing

 

Like I said, it was incredibly simplistic. But spending... I think maybe it was only about two or three weeks?... doing a few of these a couple times a week helped something click that - for whatever reason - was refusing to click before. And then suddenly, it was way too simple for him too so we didn't do all of it. This kid had a strong feeling that *his* opinion/take/idea about what he read mattered most. Doing something super canned like this helped him understand that there was an actual, simple right and wrong answer about "the main idea" of a reading.

[Another Lynn]

Purchased during Dollar Days one year:

https://shop.scholastic.com/shop/en/teacherstore/product/35-Reading-Passages-for-Comprehension-Main-Ideas--Summarizing

 

Like I said, it was incredibly simplistic. But spending... I think maybe it was only about two or three weeks?... doing a few of these a couple times a week helped something click that - for whatever reason - was refusing to click before. And then suddenly, it was way too simple for him too so we didn't do all of it. This kid had a strong feeling that *his* opinion/take/idea about what he read mattered most. Doing something super canned like this helped him understand that there was an actual, simple right and wrong answer about "the main idea" of a reading.

 

Thank you!  I smiled at the bolded - I know exactly what you're talking about, lol.  

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Aesop's fables are also excellent starting points for narration.  

[Reefgazer]

Ohm the narrations were OK for us, but the dictation brought my DS to tears.

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

You might want to look at Writing and Rhetoric from CAP. They do an Oral narration in each lesson and dictation and then build up their summary and amplification skills before moving onto other topics. The first book, Fable, is not as advanced as WWS 1, but it's building those essential skills with lots of creative exercises. It's not as much drudgery. It's creative and fun, and I just think it's a gentler transition from WWE narration and dictation to writing. As you progress in the books, you'll go from writing your own fable to narrations with dialogue and description and then to outlining and more advanced skills. My ten year old son well with it. I have WWS, but it would not have been as good of a fit for him.

[JusDelenH]

You might want to look at Writing and Rhetoric from CAP. They do an Oral narration in each lesson and dictation and then build up their summary and amplification skills before moving onto other topics. The first book, Fable, is not as advanced as WWS 1, but it's building those essential skills with lots of creative exercises. It's not as much drudgery. It's creative and fun, and I just think it's a gentler transition from WWE narration and dictation to writing. As you progress in the books, you'll go from writing your own fable to narrations with dialogue and description and then to outlining and more advanced skills. My ten year old son well with it. I have WWS, but it would not have been as good of a fit for him.

Where would I find that text? I am not familiar with CAP.

 

 

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[rose]

My dd13 has been struggling some with the WWS1 narrations as well. We also didn't do WWE before starting WWS. One thing that has helped her has been to tell her to imagine that she's writing an encyclopedia article where the editor has given her a word limit. I've also read her some of the sample paragraphs from the teacher's book after she's completed her paragraph for the week. She's been stuck because she's trying to make the narration carry the same interest level that the original had so she had all sorts of details. She'd probably excel with a creative writing curriculum but she really needs to be able to write an essay too. I think that she's finally got the idea as of today. :D

[Sahamamama2]

We are using Writing with Skill 1 for my 10 year old. We are still stuck on narrations. She just cannot seem to do it on her own. We have moved from passages in the text and tried other books to narrate from. It just not work on paper for her. She can do it verbally and with my holding her hand at each step. I do not want to move on until she masters this skill. Anything else I can try?

 

We used WWS 1 last year for my 5th grader. She had gone through WWE, Levels 1, 2, and 3, and even then, we only completed the first 12 units of WWS 1 in 5th grade. She did do plenty of other writing across the subjects, though.

 

Narrations, however, were no trouble at all for her. After three levels of WWE, narrations were a breeze. If I were in your shoes, I would work through WWE 3 first. Give your daughter the placement tests for WWE 3 and 4, then work through whichever level she tests into. IMO, your best bet would be to start with WWE 3, because the dictations in Level 3 are more realistic than they are in WWE 4. After you finish WWE 3, come back to WWS 1 and go at maybe half-pace.

 

Also, IMO, Writing with Skill is not a writing course that a student can do independently. Yes, there are aspects of it that are addressed to the student and portions that the student can do on her own. But, overall, I think this course is best accomplished with a teacher coming alongside the student, and offering as much support and scaffolding as is needed. HTH.

[Bluegoat]

We went to Writing & Rhetoric after having a terrible time with WWE, and it worked really well.  We didn't use the whole series but it was just a much better fit and more enjoyable.

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

Where would I find that text? I am not familiar with CAP.

 

 

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www.classicalacademicpress.com  They have a lot of great products, but we love their writing curriculum.  We started with WWE, but Writing and Rhetoric is a more gentle transition than WWS, and it's more engaging and creative, imho.

[JusDelenH]

Thanks. I am downloading the sample now!

 

 

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[gratitude]

The written narrations in WWS 1 are review of previously learned skills. The book then goes into new skills around week 4 or 5 with longer written narrations, outlining, etc.

 

She sounds really young for WWS 1 and not quite ready for it.

 

I would try some samples from Writing With Ease 3 & 4 off line to get an idea of where she is at and could work best at. When kids are well placed you should see growth without a struggle.

 

The recommendations changed for WWS 1 from anywhere between 5th and 9th. I would back up to WWE 3 or 4 and build her narration skills. They take time.

 

I hope that helps.

[HS Mom in NC]

WWS 1 assumes the student has years of experience with narrations. 

[JusDelenH]

Yeah, I gave up on WWS this year. I picked up Writing and Rhetoric Book 3. She likes this tons better. We found a brand new complete set at a local consignment store for half the sell price. We made it to chapter 2 in two days with no fuss.

 

 

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