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Choosing DE courses when units are limited


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Dd12 will likely start DE classes at our community college when she is in 9th. She is currently taking online classes for most subjects, and outsourcing is working very well for her. For high school, I am planning on a mix of online and DE classes.

 

I am trying to decide which classes would be most beneficial for her to take as DE vs. online. Our CC only allows a DE student to take six units per semester, so that affects my planning as well.

 

I looked through the college catalog, and made a list of potential classes she could take at the CC:

 

-several fine arts classes (3 units each)

-biology, chem, physics with lab (5 units each)

-computer programming classes (3 units each)

-micro/macro Econ (3 units each)

-various history/lit classes (3 units each)

-statistics, applied calculus 1-2 (3 units each)

-calculus/analytic geometry 1-2 (5 units each)

 

There are also several higher level math/science classes. They don't offer any language classes for the languages she is currently studying, but there are others she could take there when she finishes the current ones up.

 

For the sciences, she will have enough math for biology and chemistry by 9th and physics by 10th or 11th at the latest (requires pre-calc). This would be her first bio (she did take life science last year) but she will have already taken high school level physics and chem before attempting these at CC.

 

I am leaning toward having her complete the lab sciences at the CC and maybe a fine art or two, since I think she would benefit from being able to use the labs/studios. But beyond that, I'm undecided on how to make the most of the other units she could take there. How would you choose? This is a kid who is strong at math and a somewhat accelerated student in general. She likes school and does well in a classroom setting. Anything she doesn't take at CC would likely be done in an online class.

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I would target lab science and foreign language. With lab sciences though chances are slim she could get into a class as a DE student because she will not have priority registration. (Assuming you are in CA)

 

Ouch. I hadn't thought of that.  But if they do the CAHSEE or whatever that acronym is, then they can get priority reg? Is that what your ds is doing?

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Dd12 will likely start DE classes at our community college when she is in 9th. She is currently taking online classes for most subjects, and outsourcing is working very well for her. For high school, I am planning on a mix of online and DE classes.

 

I am trying to decide which classes would be most beneficial for her to take as DE vs. online. Our CC only allows a DE student to take six units per semester, so that affects my planning as well.

 

I looked through the college catalog, and made a list of potential classes she could take at the CC:

 

-several fine arts classes (3 units each)

-biology, chem, physics with lab (5 units each)

-computer programming classes (3 units each)

-micro/macro Econ (3 units each)

-various history/lit classes (3 units each)

-statistics, applied calculus 1-2 (3 units each)

-calculus/analytic geometry 1-2 (5 units each)

 

There are also several higher level math/science classes. They don't offer any language classes for the languages she is currently studying, but there are others she could take there when she finishes the current ones up.

 

For the sciences, she will have enough math for biology and chemistry by 9th and physics by 10th or 11th at the latest (requires pre-calc). This would be her first bio (she did take life science last year) but she will have already taken high school level physics and chem before attempting these at CC.

 

I am leaning toward having her complete the lab sciences at the CC and maybe a fine art or two, since I think she would benefit from being able to use the labs/studios. But beyond that, I'm undecided on how to make the most of the other units she could take there. How would you choose? This is a kid who is strong at math and a somewhat accelerated student in general. She likes school and does well in a classroom setting. Anything she doesn't take at CC would likely be done in an online class.

 

My kids started with Pre-Calculus as juniors.  One goal was for them to have an outside recommendation from a math instructor.  The other benefit was that they got to study math with someone who was immersed in the subject and could very quickly spot errors and misunderstandings.

 

They went on to do Chemistry at the highest level offered at the school.  They loved their instructors and really enjoyed the time in the lab.

 

I teach better English lit classes than what DS1 experienced.  The first class had to be composition, which focused on grammar, orderly paragraphs and eventually essays.  DS did do several essays and something like a research paper.  But he didn't learn much new in the class.

 

I would investigate literature, history and art classes before registering.  These sorts of courses seem to be the areas where there is the biggest divergence in expectations on content of readings and discussions between families of DE students and instructors teaching adults.  

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Ouch. I hadn't thought of that.  But if they do the CAHSEE or whatever that acronym is, then they can get priority reg? Is that what your ds is doing?

 

He took the CHSPE, and the certificate of proficiency one receives when they pass the test is considered an equivalent of a high school diploma and why CCs accept them as one form of having graduated HS. But CHSPE offers a backdoor in that if student is below 18, parents have permission to re-enroll them in school (after 18, parents don't have much say is why I think 18yo is the cut off).

 

By law, CCs are not supposed to turn away students who have the cert of proficiency. But that also comes with risks. DS can be considered a full time student. We have had to make sure that we make every admin who has raised a fuss aware that CHSPE clearly states the under 18 policy. It's tricky because not many people know about the CHSPE and they can make it hard on the student if they realize the student is not going to declare a transfer major.

 

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Check non-degree vs DE. We've found that here, non-degree has fewer hoops and fewer restrictions than DE.

 

And I ditto recommenders. It's really uncomfortable to have to contact admissions because you're your child's only math instructor! (They had me do the math form, and they asked DD's science mentor to do a few extra questions on DD's math skills as well).

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My kids started with Pre-Calculus as juniors.  One goal was for them to have an outside recommendation from a math instructor.  The other benefit was that they got to study math with someone who was immersed in the subject and could very quickly spot errors and misunderstandings.

 

They went on to do Chemistry at the highest level offered at the school.  They loved their instructors and really enjoyed the time in the lab.

 

I teach better English lit classes than what DS1 experienced.  The first class had to be composition, which focused on grammar, orderly paragraphs and eventually essays.  DS did do several essays and something like a research paper.  But he didn't learn much new in the class.

 

I would investigate literature, history and art classes before registering.  These sorts of courses seem to be the areas where there is the biggest divergence in expectations on content of readings and discussions between families of DE students and instructors teaching adults.  

 

I share your same concerns regarding humanities classes.  It probably makes sense to do these online rather than DE, although I would love to be able to find something "safe" she could do in person just for the discussion aspect.  Online discussion is a fine option, but still second to in-person, IMO. 

 

I would love for her to find some mentors/outside teachers that can guide her in her interests.  

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In our experience with a CC in CA, DS and I both do not recommend higher math at the CC if a student loves math for math's sake or is used to the kind of challenge that AoPS offers.

 

She does love math.  She has enjoyed it no matter what curriculum she uses: Saxon, Singapore, Foerster, AoPS, etc.  She's doing physics this year and is loving all of the applied algebra.  She's not an AoPS-or-die type of kid, though.  I was hoping that by Calculus a CC class would be a good fit for her, so it's disappointing to hear that this was not your experience. 

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She does love math.  She has enjoyed it no matter what curriculum she uses: Saxon, Singapore, Foerster, AoPS, etc.  She's doing physics this year and is loving all of the applied algebra.  She's not an AoPS-or-die type of kid, though.  I was hoping that by Calculus a CC class would be a good fit for her, so it's disappointing to hear that this was not your experience. 

 

Some of it depends on the professor but DS found the general apathy of the class frustrating. No one really cared about the math.

 

I would suggest courses like Economics, Statistics and Programming. Those seem to be generally well done from what I've heard at other CCs and also the one DS uses. Fine Arts/ Humanities would depend a lot on content and prof's approach as you know.

 

Good luck!

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Some of it depends on the professor but DS found the general apathy of the class frustrating. No one really cared about the math.

 

I would suggest courses like Economics, Statistics and Programming. Those seem to be generally well done from what I've heard at other CCs and also the one DS uses. Fine Arts/ Humanities would depend a lot on content and prof's approach as you know.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks.  I will keep those in mind.  She is going to take the SAT next spring, and depending on her scores, I may try approaching our local university to see if they would allow her to take classes there, and if so, how many units they would allow.  So maybe we will have a second option for math, etc.

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For the very first class - pick something you think will get her off to a good start. Think about the areas that your DD is most eager to take classes in, check Rate My Professor carefully, etc. Set her up for success as much as you can.

 

After that, it's a balance. Think about where is the CC strong/weak compared to her other options and what she wants to take versus what she needs for college admissions.

 

The specific classes are really going to depend on your individual situation.

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Thanks.  I will keep those in mind.  She is going to take the SAT next spring, and depending on her scores, I may try approaching our local university to see if they would allow her to take classes there, and if so, how many units they would allow.  So maybe we will have a second option for math, etc.

 

DS wrote to a math prof to ask for permission to take a math class and then went through the uni's concurrent enrollment steps and just enrolled. There were no unit restrictions for concurrent enrollment at the university and no need for SAT results. They were only concerned about their full time students being placed in the class first. As long as there was a spot, the university's extension department was open to DS enrolling in any class he wanted to. DS was only limited by that priority status, instructor approval (mostly a formality), my and his time (crazy morning commute) and of course, the cost. My point being that you could start approaching/ researching now to see what exactly the process will be like. DS took this math class at a UC through UC Extension but it was an on-campus class with UC students themselves. It might be different in other states or within the CA state uni system.

 

Good luck!

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we plan to outsource all 4 years of foreign language. do any others have experience here? it's 4-credits for a semester - i'm wondering how much the coarse load is?

 

This depends on the language and the student and the instructor. I've heard that local CCs' Spanish classes are very workload heavy. Some CCs' first term of a foreign language is also equal to 2 years of high school level language (check on assist.org) and might require more work? Definitely ask around locally if you can. Japanese has been a little tedious (lots of writing) but not extremely workload heavy for DS. He works consistently and that helps a lot.

 

Edited by quark
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This question is s bit of a sidetrack, but I am asking because I would like DD to take some math at the CC.  DD is in 9th grade and has taken Algebra I at home with me (Saxon, A), and is currently doing Algebra II at home (Saxon, doing an excellent job).  I would like her to take a CC course by the end of her junior year.  After 1 year of Saxon Advanced Mathematics, what CC course would be appropriate for her?

My kids started with Pre-Calculus as juniors.  One goal was for them to have an outside recommendation from a math instructor.  The other benefit was that they got to study math with someone who was immersed in the subject and could very quickly spot errors and misunderstandings.

 

They went on to do Chemistry at the highest level offered at the school.  They loved their instructors and really enjoyed the time in the lab.

 

I teach better English lit classes than what DS1 experienced.  The first class had to be composition, which focused on grammar, orderly paragraphs and eventually essays.  DS did do several essays and something like a research paper.  But he didn't learn much new in the class.

 

I would investigate literature, history and art classes before registering.  These sorts of courses seem to be the areas where there is the biggest divergence in expectations on content of readings and discussions between families of DE students and instructors teaching adults.  

 

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This question is s bit of a sidetrack, but I am asking because I would like DD to take some math at the CC.  DD is in 9th grade and has taken Algebra I at home with me (Saxon, A), and is currently doing Algebra II at home (Saxon, doing an excellent job).  I would like her to take a CC course by the end of her junior year.  After 1 year of Saxon Advanced Mathematics, what CC course would be appropriate for her?

 

When you enroll at the CC, one of the steps required for all students new to the CC is to take the free Placement Assessment. Just about all CCs and universities use placement tests to assess each student's working level for reading, writing, and math, to determine what level of course the student is prepared for, or if the student needs to take any pre-requisite courses.

 

The results of the math portion of the CC's Placement Assessment will show you which math course DD is cleared to take. If the assessment clears her for a much higher level of math than you think she is prepared for, you can chose to do a math that is a bit lower in level. The other consideration is to choose a math that has a good possibility of transferring to a future 4-year university and counting towards the degree requirements -- so, things like College Algebra, Calculus, or Statistics are often good choices.

 

BEST of luck in the future math endeavors! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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DS wrote to a math prof to ask for permission to take a math class and then went through the uni's concurrent enrollment steps and just enrolled. There were no unit restrictions for concurrent enrollment at the university and no need for SAT results. They were only concerned about their full time students being placed in the class first. As long as there was a spot, the university's extension department was open to DS enrolling in any class he wanted to. DS was only limited by that priority status, instructor approval (mostly a formality), my and his time (crazy morning commute) and of course, the cost. My point being that you could start approaching/ researching now to see what exactly the process will be like. DS took this math class at a UC through UC Extension but it was an on-campus class with UC students themselves. It might be different in other states or within the CA state uni system.

 

Good luck!

Great to know, thanks!

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This question is s bit of a sidetrack, but I am asking because I would like DD to take some math at the CC.  DD is in 9th grade and has taken Algebra I at home with me (Saxon, A), and is currently doing Algebra II at home (Saxon, doing an excellent job).  I would like her to take a CC course by the end of her junior year.  After 1 year of Saxon Advanced Mathematics, what CC course would be appropriate for her?

 

 

When you enroll at the CC, one of the steps required for all students new to the CC is to take the free Placement Assessment. Just about all CCs and universities use placement tests to assess each student's working level for reading, writing, and math, to determine what level of course the student is prepared for, or if the student needs to take any pre-requisite courses.

 

The results of the math portion of the CC's Placement Assessment will show you which math course DD is cleared to take. If the assessment clears her for a much higher level of math than you think she is prepared for, you can chose to do a math that is a bit lower in level. The other consideration is to choose a math that has a good possibility of transferring to a future 4-year university and counting towards the degree requirements -- so, things like College Algebra, Calculus, or Statistics are often good choices.

 

BEST of luck in the future math endeavors! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

In addition to this, I would recommend looking at the college's math sequence to see what course would put your dd on the track that is appropriate for her goals.  My kids have attended two CCs in two different states.  The nomenclature for courses was very different from school to school.  At one, the College Algebra course was one of two courses that made up Pre-Calculus.  At the other CC, College Algebra was an algebra course that came before Pre-Calculus (an maybe even before Algebra 2).  So it really depends on the individual school, the student's goals and background, and the results of the placement test.

 

Also, my oldest son found that he hadn't done enough with logarithms or probability.  These were topics that he had to learn in order to do the related topics in his CC course.  He generally found that internet searches gave him a down and dirty intro to the topics he needed but hadn't seen yet because of the focus of the math courses he'd taken.

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  • 3 weeks later...

 I would like her to take a CC course by the end of her junior year.  After 1 year of Saxon Advanced Mathematics, what CC course would be appropriate for her?

 

Reiterating what others have said in that your daughter will likely have to take a placement test. 

 

Here is a link to one community college's math review sheets for placement testing. Answers are included.

 

Basic skills and algebra 1 review sheets are available.

 

In addition:

Math 95 is Intermediate Algebra (Algebra II)

Math 97 is Geometry

Math 111 is College Algebra (Algebra III)

Math 112 is Trigonometry

 

Regards,

Kareni

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