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Can we (gently) talk about the explosive child?


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We have been going through a (really) rough patch with Alex. Sometimes I have a very difficult time reconciling my very logical, not-missing-a beat pre-algebra/algebra-performing child with the emotional, six-year-old ball in front of me.

Tonight she sobbed in my arms because she thinks we value baby brother more than her. Whilst I know some of that is normal the depth of emotion is staggering.

And exhausting

How do you manage/balance this?'

Edited by Kerileanne99
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Check the basics:

 

-Food. Is she getting regular protein snacks?

 

-Sleep. Enough and high quality (does she wake often at night?)

 

Anything that could have her feeling rushed? Too many transitions? Other stressors?

All of the above are known issues, unfortunately/(

She is food resistant/sensory issues that we are waiting for eval on.

Severely ADDADHD, again, testing began but awaiting appt., kid does not go to sleep nor remain asleep. She will wake up and read or listen to audio books for hours at a time despite prodigious amounts of physical exercise.

She is on the gymnastics competition team and practices 3 days per week for 2 hour sessions in addition to regular exercise. We have a garage-size climbing wall and fullback trampoline at our house that she is on non-stop. She attends multiple activities per week.

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For my explosive child, food and sleep are key. You may find things improve when you sort out the food sensitivities.

 

I actually have more trouble managing/balancing this than my husband, who is more similar and therefore has more empathy. Getting angry/sending him away/dismissing his concerns doesn't work as well as calming and reconnecting with a neutral activity before focusing on the issue.

 

Books and resources I have found helpful:

 

Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka (I haven't read the new edition, but the old one is fabulous.)

 

The Explosive Child by Ross Greene

 

And Celebrate Calm - He has some great ideas for reconnecting/diffusing the mood. You can watch some clips to get an idea of his style before buying anything (there are several clips on his Facebook page if you can't find them elsewhere). One of his tips saved our homeschool day a few weeks ago.

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With out going into too much detail, it is the result of her doing something to her 17 mo old brother that I would not have thought feasible. Whilst she did not hurt him, the behavior is highly questionable. She does suffer from PANDAS/PANS and has been ill...but I have no idea how much this is a factor.

Ultimately, I can see why she might say this. Her behavior has been...difficult to say the least. Viewed through thAt lens, combined with how mom normally interacts with a baby? Reasonable:(

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If she tried to nurse him like you do or have, that's pretty normal for the 4-7 age set as they try to imitate mommy and know nursing is a good thing, but don't necessarily get the biology. We get a lot of nursed baby dolls around here too, and everyone seems to find diaper changes fascinating.

 

If I'm off base in my assumption ignore me :)

Edited by Arctic Mama
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If she tried to nurse him like you do or have, that's pretty normal for the 4-7 age set as they try to imitate mommy and know nursing is a good thing, but don't necessarily get the biology. We get a lot of nursed baby dolls around here too, and everyone seems to find diaper changes fascinating.

 

If I'm off base in my assumption ignore me :)

No. nothing that could remotely be considered nurturing. Whilst I strongly do not believe she intended to hurt him she did mark him. This was definitely an executive function issue.1

I am struggling with viewing the behavior as a deficit,rather than manipulative. I am learning here too:(

Edited by Kerileanne99
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How high are her emotional needs? How about your toddler's needs?

 

My only sibling is 8.5 years younger. He was an extremely laid back baby/toddler but has strong separation anxiety so someone has to be beside him all the time. I have my own social life since I was a latchkey child from young so it was draining to come home and watch over my brother in his walker in close range while my mom catch a nap. I went home after school if my parents need help babysitting else I stay out until dinner time. I have many intense nephews but my brother is the only "clingy" one that needs someone all the time. My intense relatives are all very independent. (ETA: I meant my intense relatives outburst and "clingy" brother's needs triggered different response and drain energy differently)

 

Does her mood change with the change of seasons. My DS11 is cranky every time seasons change.

Edited by Arcadia
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Oh hugs, lots of hugs :grouphug:

 

My mantra every day was 'be kind.' Be kind, Ruth, be kind.  You can do this, be kind. 

 

The Explosive Child book saved me and my ds, who today is the most well adjusted teen I have every met. 

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited by lewelma
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I have found it difficult to remember to keep my maturity expectations at age level (or below, depending on the kid) instead of intellectual level.  When they can talk with you at the vocab and understanding level of a much older child, it is natural for me to sort naturally assume I am indeed talking to an essentially older child, which I Definitely Am Not.

 

I have no concrete advice.  I parent by instinct, and while it serves me well 95% of the time, it is not as great when dealing with an explosive or otherwise extremely frustrating child; in these cases my best coping technique is to give myself as much space as possible to regain *my* cool.

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:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Oh, how we have experience with this.  I have had to protect two, going on three, young toddlers from Peter.  Peter has put pillows over their heads, pushed them down the stairs, swung baseball bats at them and throw wooden blocks at their heads, shoved them off stools, tipped them over when they were in their high chairs, tried to hold their heads under water...and the list just goes on.  It is only through constant, draining, intense supervision that we have avoided any major injuries.

 

The hardest time for us has always been the transition from baby to toddler.

 

Peter likes babies because he can treat like dolls.  He does not see them as people with feelings or agency, but rather as things that he can interact with as he pleases.  He isn't mean or violent (to babies), but he is very selfish and controlling, and for the most part babies either don't notice, don't care or don't have any recourse.

 

Then "baby" starts to walk and grab things and have opinions and the whole situation blows up.  Looked at objectively, I can usually understand Peter's alarmingly dangerous behavior, but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with or react kindly to.  For example, when Peter pushed Spencer down the stairs as a young toddler, it was because Spencer was slowly climbing up (thankfully with me spotting behind him) and Peter wanted to go down.  Period.  That is as far as his brain could process - he wanted to go down and there was "something" in his way.  So he pushed it out of his way and would have sent his 1 year old brother tumbling down an entire flight of stairs if I hadn't been right there to catch him.   :sad:

 

Wendy

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I have found it difficult to remember to keep my maturity expectations at age level (or below, depending on the kid) instead of intellectual level. When they can talk with you at the vocab and understanding level of a much older child, it is natural for me to sort naturally assume I am indeed talking to an essentially older child, which I Definitely Am Not.

 

I have no concrete advice. I parent by instinct, and while it serves me well 95% of the time, it is not as great when dealing with an explosive or otherwise extremely frustrating child; in these cases my best coping technique is to give myself as much space as possible to regain *my* cool.

I think this is one of the biggest problems. We had JUST been talking about a class I am teaching on fallacies and had an in depth discussion on the presidential debate, which she had watched with us. She had some surprisingly insightful views, and laughingly gave us examples of Tu Quoque fallacies from her home life:)

It is so easy to see her as a little adult when in fact she most certainly is not. I really have to struggle to remember this.

 

And yes, sending her to bed was very much about me needing time away from her. Not my finest parenting hour:(

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Saying this gently but "severe" ADHD + sensory issues + mood swings raises a "red flag" for high-functioning autism. Girls with HFA often have delayed diagnoses because they seem "too social". I would strongly encourage an evaluation by someone familiar with 2E issues, especially girls on the spectrum.

 

Hopefully this is just a phase but you need a good neuropsych to verify that there's not anything more going on with her.

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And yes, sending her to bed was very much about me needing time away from her. Not my finest parenting hour:(

My intense oldest need a safe corner to calm down. At one time his favorite spot was curling under my piano bench. Sometimes he is so overwrought that I have to send him to his bed for him to calm down.

Just to say sending your child to bed does not equate bad parenting even if it is to give you breather room. :grouphug:

 

ETA:

My younger boy was sensory seeking so it could be that the plastic knife feels good but it could be something else. An ex-school mate used to cut herself in elementary school so something to watch out for.

Edited by Arcadia
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Saying this gently but "severe" ADHD + sensory issues + mood swings raises a "red flag" for high-functioning autism. Girls with HFA often have delayed diagnoses because they seem "too social". I would strongly encourage an evaluation by someone familiar with 2E issues, especially girls on the spectrum.

 

Hopefully this is just a phase but you need a good neuropsych to verify that there's not anything more going on with her.

Thanks for reading between the lines.

I couldn't agree more. I have always believed this as her responses seem more parroted and just slightly 'off' to me. She wants friends, but is completely oblivious to 'normal' social interactions and cues.

We believed it so strongly that at age 4 we had her evaluated by a neuropsych who did a full work up. He believed that she was not on the spectrum, but exhibited similar behaviors because she is PG.

Now at 6, things are much more obvious to me.

 

We just had another workup done by another neuropsych, and are awaiting the results. I go on Friday to get them, and it cannot come soon enough😟

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Thanks for reading between the lines.

I couldn't agree more. I have always believed this as her responses seem more parroted and just slightly 'off' to me. She wants friends, but is completely oblivious to 'normal' social interactions and cues.

We believed it so strongly that at age 4 we had her evaluated by a neuropsych who did a full work up. He believed that she was not on the spectrum, but exhibited similar behaviors because she is PG.

Now at 6, things are much more obvious to me.

 

We just had another workup done by another neuropsych, and are awaiting the results. I go on Friday to get them, and it cannot come soon enough😟

 

 

I think a lot of neuropsychs really don't know what to do when they see that PG level IQ score. I tend to abide by the "if you hear galloping hoofbeats, it may not be a horse, but it's probably something in Equidae and therefore is likely a herbivore." Ultimately, if a kid struggles with sensory, emotional regulation and social skills, chances are good that some of the interventions used for autism may well be helpful, whether or not they formally qualify for the label.

 

Hugs to you-and if Alex wants someone to complain to when her life is a struggle, she can always text DD. It would probably be a good distraction-DD is pretty tightly wound now with the interview/assessment coming up.

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I think a lot of neuropsychs really don't know what to do when they see that PG level IQ score. I tend to abide by the "if you hear galloping hoofbeats, it may not be a horse, but it's probably something in Equidae and therefore is likely a herbivore." Ultimately, if a kid struggles with sensory, emotional regulation and social skills, chances are good that some of the interventions used for autism may well be helpful, whether or not they formally qualify for the label.

 

Yes, this. And :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

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Thanks for this.

 

I don't believe that she meant to hurt him. They were playing in the toy kitchen whilst I used the restroom. Baby brother had his shirt off because he had just finished lunch, and I came out to find an intricate pattern scratched on his back. When I asked what happened she told me he fell of a chair. I said no, tell me what happened, that is not from falling off a chair.

She said she did not want to tell me because then I wouldn't take her to the library😒

 

Ultimately, she admitted to using a plastic butter knife with serrated edges to scrape 'a lovely symmetrical pattern' on his back. He is a very sturdy boy and didn't utter a peep (I would have heard), but it was enough that a few of the scratches were present hours later. She demonstrated on herself (and says it feels good).

I can justify it any number of ways. But she got mad at him for stepping on her

Book and responded.

She is just SO volatile these days.

 

Wow....

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Oh my, she is very similar to James. James isn't as emotionally explosive. But that could be a gender difference.

We are in the process of doing assessments with a mental health team. What we know for sure is that he has severe ADHD. I personally suspect that ODD is a possibility.

They don't think he has ASD. But they can't rule it out. They think they would have diagnosed him with it years ago. But now he can fake it because he is such an avid reader and his language skills are really high. And academically he is well above the norm. We will meet for a better idea in a few weeks after they have reviewed all their testing results.

He does want friends. But I think he wants the ideal friendships like children from The Secret Seven. His social skills are poor. But ADHD explains that in many ways. He is buzzing and so involved in his world he doesn't stop to read the other kids.

 

I have spent the last few weeks really looking into ADHD. So many of the things I thought were ASD fit an ADHD diagnosis. Dr Barkley would prefer ADHD to be called an executive function impairment. He has a rule of thumb and this has helped me with James. He is intellectually older and I make the assumption that he is able to handle more than he can. But the rule of thumb for ADHD children is that their executive function is thirty percent lower than their age. So I have to think of James as having the executive function of a four year old. And when I think of his fits, his lack of reasoning, defiance, hyperactivity level, lack of impulse, social skills it all fits.

 

James also is hyposensory. Sensory seeking. He can run into a wall and it doesn't hurt. We actually do a brushing protocol to help with his sensory seeking to settle him. He would love the feeling of a plastic serrated knife across his back. It is actually common for ADHD children to have much higher pain thresholds.

 

I really hope you can find help. I highly recommend Russell Barkley's books about managing ADHD. I have been watching the lectures of his website and they are great. Science based. He also has a book about the defiant child which is my next book to read.

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If she didn't think of it as something that hurts (and he wasn't making "this is hurting me" sounds), I wouldn't see it as *that* crazy.  My littlish ones (4-6) have been known to surreptitiously draw on the little ones with markers  when they first think of it as a possibility, until they are told in no uncertain terms that it is not acceptable.  I think they see little brother/sister as a compliant blank canvas.  I know that when my sister (who was also 5.5 years younger than me, and I was bright as a child though not PG) was around a year old, I liked to experiment with feeding her "food" I'd "made."  (quotes because I don't know that it would really qualify as food to anyone not literally starving).  She was too much younger for me to have much of a real affinity for her - I knew not to hurt her, because that was Bad, but I did sort of see her as an unwelcome imposition whom I could more or less use as I saw fit, granted she didn't complain.

 

 

If she is deliberately hurting the younger child or seeking to harm him, that is something else.

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I think a lot of neuropsychs really don't know what to do when they see that PG level IQ score. I tend to abide by the "if you hear galloping hoofbeats, it may not be a horse, but it's probably something in Equidae and therefore is likely a herbivore." Ultimately, if a kid struggles with sensory, emotional regulation and social skills, chances are good that some of the interventions used for autism may well be helpful, whether or not they formally qualify for the label.

 

Hugs to you-and if Alex wants someone to complain to when her life is a struggle, she can always text DD. It would probably be a good distraction-DD is pretty tightly wound now with the interview/assessment coming up.

 

This.  My boy has been in and out of mulitple therapies that would look on paper like he is on the spectrum.  (He definitely kisses the spectrum if he's not officially on it.)  For numerous reasons we haven't had a full neuro work up yet, but I see it on the horizon.  Anyways, we still do the therapies.  Right now he's in a social skills group with both neurotypical peers and his actual "quirky" peers.  I don't know what his labels are but I know what therapies he needs.

 

Big hugs.  This is hard stuff.

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Oh my, she is very similar to James. James isn't as emotionally explosive. But that could be a gender difference.

We are in the process of doing assessments with a mental health team. What we know for sure is that he has severe ADHD. I personally suspect that ODD is a possibility.

They don't think he has ASD. But they can't rule it out. They think they would have diagnosed him with it years ago. But now he can fake it because he is such an avid reader and his language skills are really high. And academically he is well above the norm. We will meet for a better idea in a few weeks after they have reviewed all their testing results.

He does want friends. But I think he wants the ideal friendships like children from The Secret Seven. His social skills are poor. But ADHD explains that in many ways. He is buzzing and so involved in his world he doesn't stop to read the other kids.

 

I have spent the last few weeks really looking into ADHD. So many of the things I thought were ASD fit an ADHD diagnosis. Dr Barkley would prefer ADHD to be called an executive function impairment. He has a rule of thumb and this has helped me with James. He is intellectually older and I make the assumption that he is able to handle more than he can. But the rule of thumb for ADHD children is that their executive function is thirty percent lower than their age. So I have to think of James as having the executive function of a four year old. And when I think of his fits, his lack of reasoning, defiance, hyperactivity level, lack of impulse, social skills it all fits.

 

James also is hyposensory. Sensory seeking. He can run into a wall and it doesn't hurt. We actually do a brushing protocol to help with his sensory seeking to settle him. He would love the feeling of a plastic serrated knife across his back. It is actually common for ADHD children to have much higher pain thresholds.

 

I really hope you can find help. I highly recommend Russell Barkley's books about managing ADHD. I have been watching the lectures of his website and they are great. Science based. He also has a book about the defiant child which is my next book to read.

 

 

I have heard something along these lines, but always seem to forget in the heat of the moment.  Thank you for the reminder, and also the book suggestion.

 

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Wow - I was going to mention strep but figured it was a long shot. When my kiddo went through a year of recurrent strep his behavior ranged from downright weird to aggressive. Once we finally figured out his his brother was an asymptomatic carrier who was amox resistant, it was like night and day. I would just stop in the middle of my day and thank the Lord for the change in our household. It was SO different having him strep free. I do believe it could be a huge component since you mention that it is an issue. 

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Good luck with the eval results....I hope those help. I have to KEEP reminding myself that emotionally DD7 is often about 2 years behind emotionally and with most executive function skills. It's so hard to see these academically advanced kids act emotionally mature sometimes because we then expect them to keep it up all the time. My DD7 recently asked to go back to counseling (she had gone during our separation) and has even asked to go see the school counselor as well. She knows she struggles with effectively managing her emotions and is starting to self-advocate, which is good, but it also makes me sad that she's feeling a bit lost already.

 

Often I find that my sensitive child is more overwhelmed by life when I am. It can be very subtle, and the self-reflection is hard, but often when I find a more grounded peaceful place for myself my daughter's behavior miraculously improves. Then as life slowly gets more hectic and chaotic, I spiral down, and that's when my daughter struggles the most (and I struggle the most with her!). So, offering this gently, but how are you doing these days?

 

Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but as I'm heading full throttle into (early) perimenopause, having crazy hormonal swings, and reflecting on the depression I suffered from starting by 4th grade at least, and probably earlier (2nd I'm guessing - hmmmmm), I'm wondering how much of my daughter's emotional swings are hormonal.  I recently read 'The Female Brain' (awesome!) and hadn't realized so much is going on hormonally with all children, but especially girls, before puberty. I think of how sensitive I am to drugs, how sensitive I am to my body's own drugs (hormones, pregnancy), and wondering if my daughter is caught in this chemical-sensitivity trap already. I recently started taking some mild peri-menopausal herbal supplements and WOW they are awesome. I went off of them for a few days to make sure they weren't the source of my headaches (nope) and I spiraled down emotionally so fast it gave me whiplash. Anyway, I'm guessing you see my point, that maybe we are turning a blind eye to a potential physiological sensitivity that our children have to their own hormonal fluctuations, which are compounded by their emotional sensitivities. If my DD were 3-5 years older hormones would be my first thought, but with my 5-, 6-, 7-yr old, they hadn't really crossed my mind before I read that book and was reminded by my body how much more complicated they can make everyday life.  I haven't done it yet, but will probably start researching mild herbal supplements for preteens and see if that's something that helps my DD7 feel more stable. Any suggestions are welcome (PM if you'd rather)!

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