ADD adults - any tricks or techniques?

[Laura Corin]

Hobbes (16) doesn't have a diagnosis but has ADD-like behaviours.  I'm not concerned with 'discipline', but I do want to help him if I can to find it easier to function.  Some examples of incidents in the last couple of weeks:

 

- it was the day before Husband's birthday, so I sat down with both my boys to make special arrangements as to when and where I would pick them up from school/work.  There were no particular distractions in the room (screens, radio, other people).  An hour later, he asked his father if he could pick him up from school the next day.

 

- We are driving home and I ask if Hobbes has his PE kit with him for washing.  He says he has.  As I park the car at home, I ask him to take the clothes directly to his washing basket or the laundry room so that they don't get forgotten.  He goes into the house first and I find the bag lying on the hall floor (where he normally dumps his school bag).

 

- He has (of his own accord) done a big clear out of his room recently, so the clutter is much reduced.  He nevertheless left his desk in such a mess that a speaker fell on his laptop and broke the screen.  He will be paying for the repair, but it's the underlying thought processes that I want to help him with.

 

- He asks to borrow a torch/flashlight so that he can take the dog for a walk.  I remind him that it's my torch and I like to keep it by my bed, but he is welcome to use it if he brings it straight back to me after the walk.  He doesn't.

 

- He borrows a nice neck tie from Husband.  The second day, he asks to borrow another tie and Husband agrees.  Husband later finds the first tie scrunched up on the sofa.

 

I would like to stress that he is not treating other people's things worse than he treats his own.  He just doesn't manage to treat any items well.

 

'Consistency' in the past has meant my consistently reminding him to do things and standing over him while he did them.  There didn't seem to be any habit building.  He does okay at school because the pupils are tightly controlled, but these don't seem to be his habits - they don't carry over into his personal life.

 

I've wondered whether visualising the necessary action might help.  If when I ask him to deal with his PE kit I ask him to visualise himself putting the kit next to the washing machine, that might stay in his brain for longer?  Do you have any techniques that work for you, or any books to recommend?  He loses lists or forgets to write in them.

 

FWIW, my other son is quite different.

 

Thanks

 

Laura

[eternalsummer]

I don't know that I have ADD, but those things all sound very familiar to me.  I was once called into the band office my senior year of high school, where one of the directors was holding a piccolo case and asked me if it was mine.  I said no, of course not, mine's in my locker, etc.  He said that was good as this one had been found in the middle of the parking lot.  Of course when I went to find my piccolo a few hours later it was not in my locker - I had indeed left it in the parking lot.

 

To clarify, the piccolo did not belong to me; it was borrowed from the school.  That kind of thing happened to me all the time.

 

I don't remember to put a new roll of toilet paper on when it runs out.  I own many pairs of glasses and can never find any of them.  etc.

 

What helped me in high school, to the extent that anything helped, was:

A.  A planner in which I wrote everything as soon as anyone told me anything I had to do or keep track of.  Once I got in the habit (instilled by the school) of writing every single thing down right away, I always knew I could just forget things right away and it would still be there waiting for me later in the day in my planner.  

B.  My best friend (and now SIL) lived with me.  She is the type of person who never forgets anything.  We took almost all the same classes and were in the same extracurriculars.  She kept me on track.

C. People were indulgent and I learned some boundaries.  In your examples, my dad would have lent me the flashlight but then come and asked for it back (and pestered me until I went to get it); my mom was blessedly unattached to possessions, so when I lost her favorite shirt or whatever she didn't much notice.  Best Friend/SIL cared very much about her possessions so she just didn't let me use them :)  That worked too.

 

 

Now I am grown up and married and DH takes care of a lot of those detail things.  I compensate in other ways - he hasn't changed a diaper in a decade.  :)  he kind of resents the detail-managing and I kind of resent the diapers, but mostly it works well.

[eternalsummer]

And for things like forgetting what you'd said to do with the laundry on the way into the house - on the way out of the bathroom when the TP has run out, I say to myself, "go get a new roll from the closet and take it to the bathroom."  Maybe 10% of the time I manage to hold onto this thought.  The other 90% of the time I have forgotten my intention by the time I walk by the closet.  I just figured out maybe 3 months ago that I can keep 12 rolls in the bathroom cabinet and refill from there - much easier to remember as there is no delay.

 

But once those 12 rolls run out it takes me literally months to remember to put 12 more rolls in the cabinet.

[Joyofsixreboot]

I do this a lot. It actually is much worse now than as a teen. My theory is my brain can only keep a limited amount of info. When I had only mine it was ok. Everyone else's leaves no room. I am also a " big idea not the details" person. I see the forest but no single trees.

 

1. If I need to do something immediately like the PE togs I have to say it over and over in my head. Hopefully no one speaks to me in between.

 

2. I keep a running list of things. I keep it on a magnetic board on my fridge so I can't lose it.

 

3. Alarms in my phone now that I have one.

 

These help but don't mean you won't find my coffee cup sitting in the laundry room 😬.

Edited October 1, 2016 by joyofsix

[Ausmumof3]

I was like this as a teen and somewhat am now. I have some routines that look almost ocd but are actually my way of dealing with it, like checking every time I leave the house or the car that I physically have the keys in my hand. I also tend to need some redundancy in life - like even though we do home made bread it's best to have some shop bread as well, in case I forget to put it on. I can keep things together by keeping a strict routine but it tends to take everything out of me so there's none of the creative stuff left.

 

The mess is often because I need a visual reminder to do stuff.

 

Although I do lists etc I don't thrive with them because I still forget it or lose it often. Phone lists and reminders are better because I tend to keep track of my phone.

 

Honestly the only thing that really helps is the negative life experience of what happens when you do lose or forget things. But even that only helps somewhat and comes with a lot of anxiety.

 

Oh and vitamin b and plenty of sleep keep my brain functioning as best it can too.

[Faithr]

I would first of all accept that a 16 yo doesn't have the greatest develop executive function and therefore is going to do this sort of thing a lot.  Hopefully, he'll grow out of it (but it will probably be sloooow, frustrating process for mom!).  And some folks never get good at not being spacey.

 

Second, I think as moms we forget our voices have turned into that teacher's voice in Peanuts, you know the one that is the trumpet going wah, wah, wah-wah-wah?  They just zone us out after a minute or two.  So it is good to have kids repeat back what you just told them, or actually write things down on sticky notes, or do something visual to remember, like stick a rubber band around the flashlight as a reminder to return.  That sort of thing.  For crumpled ties, you just have to have regular tidy up times where people return what they have moved or taken.  I can never keep up with stuff moving around the house any other way.

[kewb]

My 18 year old has executive function challenges like your son. From 16 on we have been working on getting him to put everything on his calendar as soon as someone says anything about plans, a chore, lunch, etc. It is an ongoing process. He is away at college now and most things he remembers to put on his calendar. Which helps.

 

My dh has the same challenges. I do not understand how we haven't conversation about doing something later and dh says yep, OK. I leave the room and the conversation leaves his brain. Just gone until I remind him later.

 

Back to your ds. Habits. He needs to develop strategies that work for him. A planner, everything on for calendar on his phone, etc. You will have to scaffold him while he is finding his system. Doing together, moving into he does and you oversee, to doing solo with a review, to stand alone. This will take awhile. And be frustrating for all.

 

Some books that may help.

Getting things done

https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Things-Done-Stress-Free-Productivity/dp/0142000280

 

Life strategies for teens

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=BrDBGa6Tu8YC&source=productsearch&utm_source=HA_Desktop_US&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=PLA&pcampaignid=MKTAD0930BO1&gclid=CKHT9PvJuc8CFZUINwodNOYAdA&gclsrc=ds

[Guest]

IME you can't do anything. If it is ADD.

 

That sounds defeatist, but I don't feel defeatist when I say it...what I mean is, you're not going to be able to remind him into remembering.

 

Visualizing is a great idea! And I bet it'll work....for a while. Then it won't any more because the novelty has worn off. Not the goodness of the idea, but his unconscious mind will become habituated to it and it will stop being enough of a ~thing~ to help him remember.

 

But you could cycle through new things like that!

 

So, for example, do the visualization. When you notice it's effects are running out, carry a marker with you and have him write a reminder on his arm. Once he starts forgetting with the marker reminders, you could start texting him....and have him change his text tone to something weird and new.

 

So on and so forth.

 

The other thing to remember is that even though he does this sort of thing, when he's all grown up and truly on his own, he'll figure out how to live and he'll find someone who loves him as he is, not in spite of his off the wall brainz, but just because that's part and parcel of him-ness :)

 

Smart But Scattered can't be recommended often enough.

 

 

 

 

[Lawana]

Practicing mindfulness. The ongoing, relentless, never stops, did I say relentless, internal monologue preoccupation makes it hard for me to remember stuff. I am having some success by deliberately stopping and engaging my senses to notice stuff. Remembering to do it is the trick lol

 

ETA I have a 17yo that exhibits similar behaviors regarding things others ask him to do. Fortunately he is better about things he is doing for his own reasons and motivations. So in his case I don't think it is an ADD type thing but rather a motivational thing.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Lawana

[poppy]

Coffee . Bullet journal . Hold yourself accountable ; don't shrug your shoulders and say it's how you are wired , work consistently on developing firms routines and habits. Not exactly how I'd put it to a teen, but it's what I say to adults like me whose roommates get fed up over years of ditziness / messiness / forgetfulness / call it what you will.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rebot]

A year ago, I finally got diagnosed with ADHD. There is nothing hyper about me, but there is a lot of inattentive going on.  I sure do wish that I wasn't 40 when I figured this out.  It would have made life so much easier.  I am currently on medication, but my doctor leans natural and the one supplement he recommends is; Rosavin Plus

 

I take medication about 3-4 days per week, but I always take this.  I really "think" it helps.  I'm not sure if it is this, or if it is because the days I medicate I get things done so I don't feel so behind, flakey on the days I don't.

[City Mouse]

My now adult DD made the dispcision to go back on ADHD mess all on her own. She topped taking them around 16-17 yrs old. She said she could tell a difference in just a few days.

I agree with the poster who said you can't fix it if it is ADD.

You could have him make list and post them at home like you might with a younger kid, but be prepared to do all the reminding.

 

Oh, I thought of something. My DH probably has ADHD. He uses his smart phone for all kinds of reminders. His calendar is so crazy with all kids of stuff that it drives me crazy, but it works for him. That phone is constantly beeping about something.

[8circles]

If it's actual ADHD, it cannot be "fixed".  It can only be managed.  Meds can help.  Unfortunately, ADHD is often accompanied by anxiety (among other things) which can limit or influence how effective any of the habit tips/tricks will be.  The attitude of - stop making excuses & just do it, make yourself better - is really, really harmful.

[wapiti]

Lots of ideas in the PPs.  I strongly encourage you to ask on the Learning Challenges forum where you may get more great ideas.  (I have no idea whether what you describe are ADD-level behaviors vs normal teen.)

 

Are these behaviors new or has he always tended toward disorganized?  Has he ever had coffee, and if he has, do you notice any difference in behavior?

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I know this is frustrating and it SEEMS these things should be easy to remember.  I applaud you for trying to find ways he can function as an independent adult.  My first suggestion is to read the following two books:  Smart but Scattered and ADD Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life.   Read the first one all the way through, mull it over, then read it again in small pieces as you work through it.    Both are good books.

 

If he really is ADD/ADHD then his brain is NOT going to work the way you wish it would.  Example: When you are asking him to bring back your torch once he is done with it, that information is not traveling into short term memory.  In all likelihood it never fully registered in the first place.  His brain is already thinking about 1000 other things that have nothing to do with bringing back your torch, so that request got lost before it ever was processed in a meaningful way.  In fact, he may well just be able to focus on NOW.  If it is not happening right now it is NOT NOW.  NOT NOW gets the lowest possible priority in brain function.  It gets pushed away into never never land.  He is not doing this consciously.  It is how his brain works.

 

So how to help someone who has this issue (which means they may also be great outside the box global thinkers who can come up with great, unexpected ideas on the fly but will never be good at the minutia of life)?  Lots and lots of outside scaffolding and routine that doesn't depend too much on their brain to keep it working.  

 

For example, DD cannot sense the passage of time and may be ADD (just got evals and will get results next week).  She needs lots of external scaffolding (as do my son, myself and my husband unfortunately) or she cannot stay on top of things.  We use alarms and routine.  Let me use her drama class as an example.  She used to always be late to drama because even though I would give her verbal reminders, those reminders were erratic and she frequently tuned me out unintentionally or forgot 5 seconds after she heard what I said.  She never had her materials/notes, etc. or even her shoes and glasses ready to go.  It was frustrating for both of us to go through the same issues every week.

 

I finally restructured things and created a ton of alarms and a solid routine to get her (and me) out the door on time.  There is an alarm for an hour before leaving for Drama to remind her (and me) that drama is coming up.  There is an alarm for 15 min before leaving for drama reminding her to get ready.  Then an alarm for 5 minutes before we have to leave for drama to let her know she is out of time.  Then there is the alarm to say GO RIGHT NOW.  

 

When we started the alarms we practiced, in the same sequence every.single.time., what each alarm meant.  Alarm one meant: find shoes, put glasses in drama bag, confirm sketch pad, notes, and pencil are in the drama bag (we created a drama bag that is ONLY used for drama and her stuff STAYS in the drama bag at all times unless she is at drama and the bag goes in ONE place as soon as she comes home from drama) and then she moves the drama bag to the back door.  Alarm two means put shoes on and grab a quick swig of water.  Alarm 3 means if you got distracted and didn't finish any of the things you should have done you are now out of time and need to do those things RIGHT NOW.  Alarm 4 means we are leaving even if shoes are not on, bag is missing, glasses are lost.  Practicing and talking through and visualizing and doing it all in the same sequence every week really helped.

 

With all of those alarms and getting used to a very specific routine she is now always prepared for drama and has started to anticipate the alarms by a couple of minutes.  She is always ready for drama on time.  We started that process maybe 3 years ago and now she is never late for drama, never loses her drama bag, and never loses the stuff in her drama bag.  

 

For school, we keep everything in the same place and have alarms to remind us to put things up at a certain time each day, in the same place every time.  For her glasses, she has a glasses case and we practiced over and over and over and over again putting her glasses back in that glasses case and putting the case in one spot every.single.time. when she is not using her glasses.  

 

Lack of routine, or an erratic schedule or lack of external scaffolding or lack of extended practice in the exact same order of a particular routine are killers here.  It takes a ton of time and effort to get these things in place but it takes a lot more effort and creates a ton of frustration on the back end if you don't.

 

Hugs and Good luck.

Edited October 1, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[Melissa B]

I have a similar 16 year old. She does have the diagnosis. The most effective strategy I have found is to have her repeat information I give her back to me. Usually, at least twice. I will ask her what I just said, wait a couple minutes and then ask her to repeat it again. I have also gotten her into the habit of entering all important information into her phone. All dates, times, classrooms, etc. I tried having her write it down, but she would forget/lose the paper, notebook. If she is pressed for time she will write information on her arm. If she asks again about a ride, etc. I will ask her to check her phone and see if the information is already in there. It often is.

 

I'm so glad there are smart phones now. She also sets alarms for all important events. Even things like ten minutes before she has to leave for the bus every day. She sets the alarms to repeat daily/weekly. Otherwise she would always be late. :) 

 

I have no suggestions for misplacing items. Things my dd needs daily she gets into a habit of putting in the same place every day. When I see things similar to the tie on the couch, I ask her to put it back immediately. If I notice the flashlight is still missing I ask her to immediately stop what she is doing and find and replace the flashlight. 

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

I have a similar 16 year old. She does have the diagnosis. The most effective strategy I have found is to have her repeat information I give her back to me. Usually, at least twice. I will ask her what I just said, wait a couple minutes and then ask her to repeat it again. I have also gotten her into the habit of entering all important information into her phone. All dates, times, classrooms, etc. I tried having her write it down, but she would forget/lose the paper, notebook. If she is pressed for time she will write information on her arm. If she asks again about a ride, etc. I will ask her to check her phone and see if the information is already in there. It often is.

 

I'm so glad there are smart phones now. She also sets alarms for all important events. Even things like ten minutes before she has to leave for the bus every day. She sets the alarms to repeat daily/weekly. Otherwise she would always be late. :)

 

I have no suggestions for misplacing items. Things my dd needs daily she gets into a habit of putting in the same place every day. When I see things similar to the tie on the couch, I ask her to put it back immediately. If I notice the flashlight is still missing I ask her to immediately stop what she is doing and find and replace the flashlight. 

I write stuff on my arm, too. LOL

 

And yes, smartphones have been a HUGE help here.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Also, for situations like with the tie, if he borrows something does he have a Smart phone or some other electronic reminder he could create?  I agree with up thread, sometimes paper reminders get lost.  If he had something like a smart phone then as soon as he borrowed the tie I would have him put an alarm in his phone to remind him to return the tie.  Have him do it RIGHT THAT MINUTE. 

 

Set him up for success and encourage him when he has those successes.  Getting irritated, nagging, complaining after the fact (not saying you do this but in general) can actually exacerbate the situation.  They are focused on the fact that they feel bad for something they really couldn't help instead of focusing on developing strategies that actually work to help them out.

[Laura Corin]

Lots of ideas in the PPs.  I strongly encourage you to ask on the Learning Challenges forum where you may get more great ideas.  (I have no idea whether what you describe are ADD-level behaviors vs normal teen.)

 

Are these behaviors new or has he always tended toward disorganized?  Has he ever had coffee, and if he has, do you notice any difference in behavior?

 

He's always been wildly disorganised.  I have always suspected that home educating him until he was ten allowed him to avoid a whole lot of school trouble in the early years.  He is managing better these days than before.

 

He does sometimes have coffee but prefers tea. I'll watch to see if caffeine makes a difference.

[Ellesmere]

I have a diagnosis, was treated with just medication when first diagnosed in high school, and wish I had also gotten some kind of coaching or therapy to help. (Still using meds but I would say first get a thorough evaluation to rule out things that have similar symptoms. I would do that even if I weren't inclined to use meds.)

So I'm still kind of a mess and probably not the best for advice. But here's what helps me, so far.

I agree with a lot of what is already posted. It is what it is and there are things about it that people have to learn to live with or work with instead of trying to work against. I'm not saying use it as an excuse or surrender.. But I know my limits and am constantly trying to work with them or find tips that will help improve.

A very small thing -- I keep little items that I use and lose all the time everywhere if I can afford to stash them around the house OR I keep just ONE of something and try to treat it like rare treasure. I have an enormous supply of toothpaste and other toiletries that I will forget at the store and can't go without. It's not terribly frugal or helping with my decluttering goals but until I get my act together with getting everything I need when I shop, this is what I have to do. 

For the flashlight and the tie -- I might not start by getting his own torch or tie (unless he's going to need one quite often.) I might, at first, work towards having an agreed spot. Can he put borrowed items in a specific spot where you know they would be? I'm not saying coddle him and cater to his disorganization. But -- and I know I'm saying this as the one with the disorder -- at his age it might be something to consider to help him. Of course, under the understanding that he may suddenly forget that spot and start finding new and exciting places to put things. It's not easy to live with, I know. 

Not the same situation but here's something that was driving someone nuts here -- pocket change was getting cluttered all over a countertop by the door. Could have argued, insisting that change go into the coin bank on the bedroom dresser on the other side of the house.For now, there's a small cup to collect change on that counter. It's not as aesthetically pleasing but it's not all over the counter or in pockets (annoying whoever is doing laundry) and it is at least contained. 

I noticed most books from the bedroom bookshelves (of the child who seems to have my tendencies) always ended up in piles in the living room. So I moved all those books to the living room bookcases. I see the argument for insisting they go back to the bedroom, but I chose to just make room and no longer am constantly working to get piles of books back to the bedroom. Not saying my way was right or best, but it worked as far as keeping anxiety and stress down for now.

I can identify with the desk incident. I know I am prone to breaking things. I have broken three coffee machines because although I'm primarily inattentive, I move in a clumsy, oddly impulsive way. I finally got a simple, streamlined ceramic dripper and glass carafe. I know it is likely I'll break them but replacing them won't cost nearly as much as the machine (ok, machines) that I broke. My desk drives my husband nuts because it looks horrible but I really do find just about everything I need now.

I do ask myself, when setting anything up or organizing anything around the house -- is this likely to fall or be bumped into (I'm clumsy), spill, or otherwise cause a headache to clean up? Am I likely to forget it if I put it here? Am I starting to create the Great Leaning Pile which will fall and break something? Where will I likely use this -- store it there. Get dressed and undressed in one spot if possible, near a hamper. 

Some other things that helped me a bit:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/apr/17/file-that-under-m-for-messy-paperwork-solution
http://www.wnyc.org/story/algorithms-practical-efficiency/

My mom was in your shoes. I lost my glasses far from home, my retainer while out with a friend's family, and wow, was my room a disaster area. My sympathies to you! But obviously you realize he's not doing it to be difficult or purposely mistreating your stuff. And you want to help (and visualizing can help) so having someone alongside him who understands he's not lazy and just wants to help him is great. I had a lot of angst over my issues but knowing my parent didn't quite understand me but always were wanting to help and not judge was good. I just told my mom recently that I know I gave all appearances of not listening to her when I was younger, and often I wasn't. But I was able to give examples of some things that did trickle into my scatterbrain after all.

[Starr]

Maybe you could track down some other threads about organization/ADD/ADHD. I remember reading a very detailed description of the multiple ways a teen had for organizing and remembering things. I wish I was better about remembering the names of posters. This is a struggle for some in our house as well. 

[Ellesmere]

I kept a paper planner and paper lists up until a couple years ago because if I put reminders on my phone calendar or set timers, I'd just happily snooze and then ignore them. But I agree with the posts that mentioned finding apps that work. There are so many and I tried a bunch before settling on what works best for me. My current line-up -- not that these would necessarily work with a teen but in case they might help anyone:

Todoist, for everything from my shopping lists, things to do today, recipes to cook, bill reminders, and I'm experimenting with using it to track homeschool stuff
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.todoist&hl=en

Loop Habit Tracker -- tracking irregular chores and things that I need to do once in awhile. Todoist and others are fine for that but I keep this one separately because the layout works for my me to see progress on certain things. I have one of my kids on this one b/c it is ad-free (although I don't remember if I paid?). I would say that trying to consolidate to just one habit/planning/reminder app might be good because I too easily lose track of where I entered something but using two apps for two very distinct needs has been working for a few months.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.isoron.uhabits&hl=en

A couple that I tried, liked, but don't use:
Regularly:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ugglynoodle.regularly
Remember the Milk

I also agree with mindfulness even though I haven't done a lot with it. I finally found an app with a voice that didn't drive me to distraction and have tried it a few times. It has been good for keeping distractions out as I go to sleep.

Regular exercise, good sleep routines, and good diet --- I think those are huge and I'm not inclined to be any good at those things. But I also agree that helping with good habits there should help.

[Pen]

I think my son and I both are having these same problems!

 

I've noticed that single word reminders (from How to Talk so Teens Will Listen) like "laundry" sound gruff to me, but seem like to him they get through and are what he likes and tends to respond to, while what to me seems nicer, like a whole sentence with "please" seems like nagging or lecturing.

 

I'm also stepping back more out of the loop when possible. I'll tell him I have my keys and wallet in hand and am ready to take him to x when he tells me he's ready. Then I ignore the rest of the situation which is likely to consist of first dawdling and then frantic scurrying for this and that. (Doesn't sound like good scaffolding, but it seemed to me like he needs to decide he wants to change things for that to work.)

 

But I suffer from it too, I realize, probably much more than he does, but in different ways.  I've also developed things over the years, like hooks for keys where they always go, to help.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Pen

[Guest]

I have a similar young man, now 21. Hard exercise (cross country, skateboard or mountain bike for 2 hrs daily) and coffee were helpful, as was a workplace that forced him to pay attention to details and punch in his time card within certain parameters. Everything goes on the phone as far as scheduling. He got into body building and works out with weights..when he was here on break I noticed he was a different man when he took his pre-workout supplement. Lo and behold, it contained the methylcobalamin form of B12...and the college grades went up when he started supplementing daily.

 

As far as putting things in the proper places....it helps if he devises the routine and spots rather than having them imposed. All you should do is prompt...'I am running a load thru the washer. Did you want your gym clothes included? I dont see them in the spot?"

Edited October 1, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[poppy]

If it's actual ADHD, it cannot be "fixed".  It can only be managed.  Meds can help.  Unfortunately, ADHD is often accompanied by anxiety (among other things) which can limit or influence how effective any of the habit tips/tricks will be.  The attitude of - stop making excuses & just do it, make yourself better - is really, really harmful.

 

My retort would be, telling kids (as several posters have) that they  cannot be fixed, there is not treatment, is really, really harmful.

 

I would never say suck it up and just do it.  But if you have conditions that limit your ability to effectively function, you need to treat them.  If that means meds, take meds. If that means rigorous routines where others can hang loose, do the routines.  It's not fair, it sucks,  oh well.    Don't let your life be ruined by treatable conditions.  Anxiety and ADHD are both common and can be mitigated many different ways.

 

I have both.  I'm on a high dose of anxiety meds. I have worked many years to develop a manageable lifestyle.  It sucks. It's hard. I fail sometimes (just like everyone).   But if I just thought, can't be "fixed" , I wouldn't be happier, my family definitely wouldn't be better off..... I can't see any good that can come from that, honestly.

 

At the same time, of course you offer a lot of support and patience towards any family member dealing with these issues. Of course! But from a mentoring perspective, "can't be fixed" is not helpful, IMO.

Edited October 1, 2016 by poppy

[8circles]

My retort would be, telling kids (as several posters have) that they  cannot be fixed, there is not treatment, is really, really harmful.

 

I would never say suck it up and just do it.  But if you have conditions that limit your ability to effectively function, you need to treat them.  If that means meds, take meds. If that means rigorous routines where others can hang loose, do the routines.  It's not fair, it sucks,  oh well.    Don't let your life be ruined by treatable conditions.  Anxiety and ADHD are both common and can be mitigated many different ways.

 

I have both.  I'm on a high dose of anxiety meds. I have worked many years to develop a manageable lifestyle.  It sucks. It's hard. I fail sometimes (just like everyone).   But if I just thought, can't be "fixed" , I wouldn't be happier, my family definitely wouldn't be better off..... I can't see any good that can come from that, honestly.

 

At the same time, of course you offer a lot of support and patience towards any family member dealing with these issues. Of course! But from a mentoring perspective, "can't be fixed" is not helpful, IMO.

 

ADHD isn't "fixed" by meds or tricks.  It doesn't ruin my life to accept that this is the way my brain works.  Another really important note: it doesn't ruin YOUR life for me to accept that about myself, it doesn't hurt you at all.  On the flip side, your attitude hurts many people who aren't like you.   There is no amount of meds plus tricks that will fix me.  The good that comes from that is I get to be happy.  I get to not be on high-alert 24/7.  I get to do my best at each moment without suffering that my best isn't like someone else's.

 

If you aren't helped by knowing that your brain can't be fixed, then by all means, tell yourself you can do it.  Don't make that judgement about anyone else.

[8circles]

My retort would be, telling kids (as several posters have) that they  cannot be fixed, there is not treatment, is really, really harmful. 

 

I would never say suck it up and just do it.  But if you have conditions that limit your ability to effectively function, you need to treat them. Nobody has advocated for no treatment.  If that means meds, take meds. If that means rigorous routines where others can hang loose, do the routines.  It's not fair, it sucks,  oh well.    You're making me sound like I'm lazy and just don't want to do the work.  Rude & presumptiuous. Don't let your life be ruined by treatable conditions. My life is far from ruined.  Treatable does not = fixed.  Anxiety and ADHD are both common and can be mitigated many different ways. Yes, and depending on the person the level of mitigation won't be the same.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2016 by 8circles

[poppy]

ADHD isn't "fixed" by meds or tricks.  It doesn't ruin my life to accept that this is the way my brain works.  Another really important note: it doesn't ruin YOUR life for me to accept that about myself, it doesn't hurt you at all.  On the flip side, your attitude hurts many people who aren't like you.   There is no amount of meds plus tricks that will fix me.  The good that comes from that is I get to be happy.  I get to not be on high-alert 24/7.  I get to do my best at each moment without suffering that my best isn't like someone else's.

 

If you aren't helped by knowing that your brain can't be fixed, then by all means, tell yourself you can do it.  Don't make that judgement about anyone else.

 

Someone came online to ask, how should I approach this with my kid.

I said, here is how I approach it for me.

How am I hurting anyone???

 

My point was, it is unfixable (without adding more) says to me that there is nothing that can be done, shrug your shoulders and accept it.  I reply: treat it, mitigate it, deal with the lemons life has handed you .  Keeping in mind, every human being on this earth has their own "lemons". 

 

I sure never said I was fixed, either. That would be nice, but, nope.

 

 

[8circles]

Someone came online to ask, how should I approach this with my kid.

I said, here is how I approach it for me.

How am I hurting anyone???

 

My point was, it is unfixable (without adding more) says to me that there is nothing that can be done, shrug your shoulders and accept it.  I reply: treat it, mitigate it, deal with the lemons life has handed you .  Keeping in mind, every human being on this earth has their own "lemons". 

 

I sure never said I was fixed, either. That would be nice, but, nope.

 

If that isn't what you meant, why did you take issue with me saying it can't be fixed?  I didn't quote you.

 

To imply that accepting that your brain is different is won't ever function like other people's is the same as shrugging and saying Oh well - without any effort - That is harmful.  It isn't one or the other.  Nobody is saying "woe is me" and having a pity-party.

 

 

 

 

Coffee . Bullet journal . Hold yourself accountable ; don't shrug your shoulders and say it's how you are wired , work consistently on developing firms routines and habits. Not exactly how I'd put it to a teen, but it's what I say to adults like me whose roommates get fed up over years of ditziness / messiness / forgetfulness / call it what you will.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[poppy]

 

If that isn't what you meant, why did you take issue with me saying it can't be fixed?  I didn't quote you.

 

To imply that accepting that your brain is different is won't ever function like other people's is the same as shrugging and saying Oh well - without any effort - That is harmful.  It isn't one or the other.  Nobody is saying "woe is me" and having a pity-party.

 

 

 

 

Coffee . Bullet journal . Hold yourself accountable ; don't shrug your shoulders and say it's how you are wired , work consistently on developing firms routines and habits. Not exactly how I'd put it to a teen, but it's what I say to adults like me whose roommates get fed up over years of ditziness / messiness / forgetfulness / call it what you will.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

I did get the impression your "very, very harmful" reply was in response to me...seeing as how you remember it well enough to quote it.   I am certainly not going to go through posts to refute your assertions. No point whatsoever. I posted what I posted and i stand by it, it is something that took me a long time to get to.  Your journey is different, fine.  Hope the OP gets what she needs from this thread.

 

[8circles]

I did get the impression your "very, very harmful" reply was in response to me...seeing as how you remember it well enough to quote it.   I am certainly not going to go through posts to refute your assertions. No point whatsoever. I posted what I posted and i stand by it, it is something that took me a long time to get to.  Your journey is different, fine.  Hope the OP gets what she needs from this thread.

 

 

It took all of 5 seconds to find & quote your original post.  I didn't re-write it word-for-word.  ctrl+c, ctrl+v.

 

I'm all for everyone being on a different journey.  I allow you yours, don't try to criticize mine.

[6packofun]

YES to the exercise and coffee if he can handle it!  Also, my ds (22) is not an auditory learner--he's very visual--BUT, having him repeat instructions out loud does wonders for him.  Sometimes.  lol  And sometimes is better than rarely ever so we're happy with that!  :)  He always felt VERY down on himself for his scatterbrained-ness and inability to remember tasks, particularly with more than one step, so it was important that we just kept looking for new ways to help so that he could have successes.  We look at success so differently now and that was good for all of us.

[eternalsummer]

I think everyone has some traits that are difficult to deal with - to some extent we try to mitigate them, both for ourselves and for our families, but to a large extent, at least in my life, instead of trying to change the person with the difficult trait we develop ways to work around it.

 

So for instance, DH is not disorganized (ever) and he is very thorough, so it seems a bit insane to him that I can forget to put on a new roll of TP or think I've finished cleaning the kitchen when there are crumbs in the corners.  I try to remember about the TP and I am more conscious than I would naturally be about the crumbs, but for the most part he just covers for my deficiencies in these areas.

 

On the other hand, he cannot tolerate eating sounds, and has a compulsion to listen to loud music.  If I am being very silent and he is listening to loud music (and not trying to concentrate on writing or a chess game or something), I can eat next to him.  But for the most part I eat crunchy things elsewhere or not at all, and I do not get offended when he is upset by my chewing noises.

 

He could just learn to live with it, but it is no problem really for me to compensate.

 

So that is what it is like living with other people, I guess, who are not perfect.  I have no intention (nor would DH want me to have any intention) of medicating myself into remembering to clean things up constantly or fill out paperwork on time.  

 

I do drink black tea, though.

[Guest]

No poppy, if someone you love has add... You CAN NOT FIX THEM.

And newsflash, maybe they don't want to be fixed. Maybe people love the exactly as they are, but line with anything else. Are seeking to live authentically and thus work with what you've got, make allowances for what you don't, and deal with the annoyances that go along with living around other people.

And if you think it's as simple as "if you need medicine, take medicine" ... Then you just don't know. Lot of good reasons not to take medicine, even if you DO find one that helps, sometimes.

Edited October 1, 2016 by OKBud

[Heathermomster]

Daily mindfulness meditation, daily exercise, and work assigned by a CBT are working very well with my DS. We use some cognitive exercises to practice goal setting and other EF work.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Heathermomster

[poppy]

No poppy, if someone you love has add... You CAN NOT FIX THEM.

 

And newsflash, maybe they don't want to be fixed. Maybe people love the exactly as they are, but line with anything else. Are seeking to live authentically and thus work with what you've got, make allowances for what you don't, and deal with the annoyances that go along with living around other people.

 

And if you think it's as simple as "if you need medicine, take medicine" ... Then you just don't know. Lot of good reasons not to take medicine, even if you DO find one that helps, sometimes.

Wow I made a lot of people angry and I genuinely do not know why. Feeling battered. To be clear, I am the person with ADHD. And anxiety. I have been through the wringer. I am not standing on a mountaintop of health judging damaged people. I am trying to find ways to cope just like everyone else.

[Guest]

Wow I made a lot of people angry and I genuinely do not know why. Feeling battered. To be clear, I am the person with ADHD. And anxiety. I have been through the wringer. I am not standing on a mountaintop of health judging damaged people. I am trying to find ways to cope just like everyone else.

 

Because you said (copy paste quote)

 

My retort would be, telling kids (as several posters have) that they  cannot be fixed, there is not treatment, is really, really harmful.

 

 

This is our lived experience we are advising from AND it's twisting several people's words. If you have ADD, no one ELSE can fix you. No one ELSE can make your executive functioning skills kicks in...and more to the (my) point, a person with ADD will likely be OK is people don't run around telling them there's something wrong with them that MUST BE FIXED their whole lives, ykwim?

 

There is a huge gulf between anxiety and ADD, and it sucks balls that you have both. Anxiety can ruin a person's life from the inside. ADD will only ruin a person's life if the people around them do not accept them as they are and help where they are able and willing to help.

 

Everyone here (including you, no doubt about it) is ATTEMPTING to help. People who love people with ADD need support and that's all anyone has tried to do. I really REALLY don't think anyone is advocating for any type of harmful interactions in this thread

Edited October 1, 2016 by OKBud

[poppy]

Because you said (copy paste quote)

 

 

This is our lived experience we are advising from AND it's twisting several people's words. If you have ADD, no one ELSE can fix you. No one ELSE can make your executive functioning skills kicks in...and more to the (my) point, a person with ADD will likely be OK is people don't run around telling them there's something wrong with them that MUST BE FIXED their whole lives, ykwim?

 

There is a huge gulf between anxiety and ADD, and it sucks balls that you have both. Anxiety can ruin a person's life from the inside. ADD will only ruin a person's life if the people around them do not accept them as they are and help where they are able and willing to help.

 

Everyone here (including you, no doubt about it) is ATTEMPTING to help. People who love people with ADD need support and that's all anyone has tried to do. I really REALLY don't think anyone is advocating for any type of harmful interactions in this thread

.

Did you not see that I was quoting someone who had posted the advice I gave was 'really, really harmful'? It wasn't twisting; I was echoing, which is why I used the word retort. Then attempted to show another view....

 

Perhaps what is happening is that people who are used to being in an advocate role are weary from hearing criticism. I get that, trust me, my DD has some real challenges and I know what it feels like to learn to nurture who she is vs changing her to make her fit in (which will never happen anyway). But I am not an advocate looking at it from the mom's pov, I am looking at it from the kids pov and thinking what do I wish I'd known 25 years ago. Which is what the OP asked for and I don't think it's invalid.

[maize]

The only way I can keep something like "put gym clothes in the laundry" in my mind long enough to carry out the action is to keep repeating that phrase over and over in my head until it is done.

 

Trouble is I'm likely to forget to keep repeating it, or maybe I manage to keep repeating it but stop noticing that I am repeating it--it stops having any meaning.

 

Medication does help.

[8circles]

.

Did you not see that I was quoting someone who had posted the advice I gave was 'really, really harmful'? It wasn't twisting; I was echoing, which is why I used the word retort. Then attempted to show another view....

 

Perhaps what is happening is that people who are used to being in an advocate role are weary from hearing criticism. I get that, trust me, my DD has some real challenges and I know what it feels like to learn to nurture who she is vs changing her to make her fit in (which will never happen anyway). But I am not an advocate looking at it from the mom's pov, I am looking at it from the kids pov and thinking what do I wish I'd known 25 years ago. Which is what the OP asked for and I don't think it's invalid.

 

I didn't quote you.  I didn't even use your words.  

 

I also have ADHD & anxiety.  Thinking about how I experienced this as a child is something that I think about often.  WHat I wish *I'd* known?  That I wasn't broken, that I wasn't lazy, that I was OK just like I was - working hard to overcome but always different & that was OK.  I'd share more but I'm frankly not comfortable in this thread.

[KathyBC]

Poppy, I think I see what you are saying. The Sequential Spelling people have a program, "If it is to be, it is up to me."

 

Yes, the people who have ADD loved ones need to accept that this won't be "fixed".

But also yes, those with ADD need to take accountability to do their best to find strategies to function.

 

You all seem to agree more than you know, it's just a misunderstanding. ((( hugs to all )))

[OneStepAtATime]

For those who are unhappy right now,    :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:.  

 

This is a touchy subject for many.  Can someone with ADD/ADHD be "fixed"?  No.  Just like someone with dyslexia cannot be fixed.  Along with a dozen other things I can think of that frequently are looked at as something "wrong" or "bad" or needing to be "fixed".  They cannot be fixed.  Why?  Because the person isn't broken.  They just process differently.  Human beings function on a spectrum and we all have different areas of strength and areas of challenge.  Doesn't mean we are all broken and need fixing.  We just have different ways of processing things.

 

Unfortunately, those differences in processing can cause daily life to be a challenge in certain areas.  Just as with anything else in life some things that help one person with those challenges won't help or at least not as much for someone else.  That is why getting a variety of suggestions for how to work through those challenges in a more productive way can be sooo useful.  Sometimes the answer is meds.  Sometimes the answer is a variety of other things.  And sometimes the answer is lean on others for the stuff you need support for instead of beating your head against a wall trying to be something you are not.  

 

I think many times, also, there are expectations from others that are not helpful.  DH has very high expectations for how the kids function.  When they were struggling to learn to read and finally got diagnosed with dyslexia, I didn't want the label to give them excuses.  I needed to know why they struggled and how I could better help them to acquire an incredibly useful skill or find ways to help them function without it if it came to that.  DH expected the kids to just suddenly start reading once we began teaching them in a more dyslexic friendly way.  His expectations were totally unrealistic for how they should progress and he saw them as broken and needing to be fixed.  He was very frustrated and kept laying expectations on them that were very unhelpful.  They weren't broken.  They just processed differently and needed more time to learn and in a different way.  

 

DD struggled for years to learn how to do long multiplication.  The standard presentation made no sense to her, no matter how it was presented.  A summer school teacher finally showed her lattice method when she was 11.  Did it make much sense to me?  No.  But it sure made sense to DD.  Within minutes things were clicking that had never clicked before.  Now DD can do long multiplication without issue.  She does it faster than I do.  Was DD broken?  No.  Is she now fixed?  No.  She just found a better way to handle long multiplication.  

 

In setting up all those alarms I referenced in a previous post, I was not attempting to fix my daughter because she isn't broken.  But we both recognized that we needed a better way to handle her schedule since being late to everything was hurting her emotionally and causing problems for the people and organizations she is part of.  Relying entirely on me wasn't helping, either.  I was overloaded, too, and struggling to keep track.  Is setting 5 gazillion alarms for every.single.thing we do somewhat irritating at times?  Sure.  But it helps make sure things get done when they need to get done.  Until DD and I got Smart phones I never tried having this many alarms.  Now we have devices that help tremendously.  It didn't "fix" DD because she isn't broken.  It didn't fix me either.  But it DID fix the specific issue she and I were having with getting to her events on time and prepared.  

 

Laura, maybe read through the books I mentioned up thread, see if he is interested in reading them too, and perhaps the two of you could brainstorm together.  

 

Good luck and best wishes.

 

[poppy]

I didn't quote you.  I didn't even use your words.  

 

I also have ADHD & anxiety.  Thinking about how I experienced this as a child is something that I think about often.  WHat I wish *I'd* known?  That I wasn't broken, that I wasn't lazy, that I was OK just like I was - working hard to overcome but always different & that was OK.  I'd share more but I'm frankly not comfortable in this thread.

 

I did not say you quoted me.  

I really wish I'd never opened this thread.

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Hobbes (16) doesn't have a diagnosis but has ADD-like behaviours.  I'm not concerned with 'discipline', but I do want to help him if I can to find it easier to function.  Some examples of incidents in the last couple of weeks:

 

- it was the day before Husband's birthday, so I sat down with both my boys to make special arrangements as to when and where I would pick them up from school/work.  There were no particular distractions in the room (screens, radio, other people).  An hour later, he asked his father if he could pick him up from school the next day.

 

- We are driving home and I ask if Hobbes has his PE kit with him for washing.  He says he has.  As I park the car at home, I ask him to take the clothes directly to his washing basket or the laundry room so that they don't get forgotten.  He goes into the house first and I find the bag lying on the hall floor (where he normally dumps his school bag).

 

- He has (of his own accord) done a big clear out of his room recently, so the clutter is much reduced.  He nevertheless left his desk in such a mess that a speaker fell on his laptop and broke the screen.  He will be paying for the repair, but it's the underlying thought processes that I want to help him with.

 

- He asks to borrow a torch/flashlight so that he can take the dog for a walk.  I remind him that it's my torch and I like to keep it by my bed, but he is welcome to use it if he brings it straight back to me after the walk.  He doesn't.

 

- He borrows a nice neck tie from Husband.  The second day, he asks to borrow another tie and Husband agrees.  Husband later finds the first tie scrunched up on the sofa.

 

I would like to stress that he is not treating other people's things worse than he treats his own.  He just doesn't manage to treat any items well.

 

'Consistency' in the past has meant my consistently reminding him to do things and standing over him while he did them.  There didn't seem to be any habit building.  He does okay at school because the pupils are tightly controlled, but these don't seem to be his habits - they don't carry over into his personal life.

 

I've wondered whether visualising the necessary action might help.  If when I ask him to deal with his PE kit I ask him to visualise himself putting the kit next to the washing machine, that might stay in his brain for longer?  Do you have any techniques that work for you, or any books to recommend?  He loses lists or forgets to write in them.

 

FWIW, my other son is quite different.

 

Thanks

 

Laura

 

In thinking through my own day, I was going to address a couple of other things with some specific suggestions.  I highly recommend that for your son's PE kit you help him set up a very specific routine that you help him do every.single.time. in the same way.  Not options like you could take it here or there, but a very specific routine he does the same way every time.  Provide him with the scaffolding and support to get that routine into procedural and muscle memory.  But brainstorm with him on what HE thinks would work best.  Let him think it through and come up with a plan he things might work then scaffold him while he gets it up and running.  Keep it consistent.  

 

For example, I used to lose my wallet, my car keys and my glasses cleaning cloth.  I also kept losing my chapstick.  All.the.time.  I cleared out a space in a drawer in the kitchen, since I spend a LOT of time in the breakfast/living room area right off the kitchen.  I had reminder alarms in my phone that I would just change the time for to remind myself when I walked in the door to IMMEDIATELY put up my wallet, my chapstick, my glasses cleaning cloth, and my car keys in that drawer.  Before ANYTHING else.  Or I would get sidetracked, the items would get scattered about the house and I would go nuts looking for them later.  

 

I also kept misplacing my favorite pair of sandals.  I don't wear my shoes in the house but when we would walk in from being away I would often kick them off in really weird places without even remembering I had done so.  I gave up on ever remembering to take my sandals upstairs to my closet and got really tired of losing my sandals.  I found a little nook near the back door for my sandals.  I now take them off and put them in that nook.   I had to train myself to do it with alarms and post it note reminders for quite a while but eventually it became automatic.  I rarely forget, now, so I know where my sandals are when we need to leave the house.  It has helped tremendously.

 

On the flip side of this coin, I used to take off my watch and leave it in the most bizarre places.  I guess it was subconsciously bothering me.  I lost a lot of watches that way.  I no longer wear watches.  It just wasn't worth the hassle of having to replace them.  I suppose I could have tried to set some sort of reminder alarms to look for my watch every 5 minutes, just in case I had randomly taken it off, but that seemed rather ridiculous and a waste of time.  I just don't wear them anymore.  Or rings.  Or bracelets.  Really cut down on my frustration and the guilt when I would lose something that someone had given me.  I share this last as an example that sometimes instead of banging one's head against a wall trying to function as others do, it can make more sense to simply get out of the game altogether.

 

Best wishes...

[Ellesmere]

What OneStepAtaTime just said about knowing when to get out of the game is so true for me. I *had* to learn to work with my disorderly ways and learn how to keep track of my keys and wallet. No way out of that.

 

But after losing an important piece of jewelry, I gave up on wearing anything valuable. It wasn't easy but I also seem to have sensory issues so in the end I am happier. So for me it is about accommodating vs coddling vs banging my head aginst the wall. Coddling would be if someone else constantly kept track of my keys and purse for me. Beating my head against the wall is insisting my home is organized like a Container Store ad. Accomodating is training myself on keeping track of necessary things and deciding how much effort I will invest in keeping track of extras.

 

For remembering certain things, I have tried the method of anchoring it to something I never fail to do. After I brush my teeth, I ..., After I eat breakfast, I ... There is a name for that method; of course, I forget.

[katilac]

 

He does sometimes have coffee but prefers tea. I'll watch to see if caffeine makes a difference.

 

Is there a reason the caffeine needs to be in coffee form? If not, he could just wash down a Jet Alert with tea.

[lauraw4321]

Every single one of those things you have described are close to identical behavior that my DH (diagnosed ADD) has, and close to things my DD has done (she's younger so it's a tad different).

 

Medication helps, but it does not solve the problems.

 

Routine helps.  I keep up with things for them because it's easier and more natural for me. 

 

When DH and I got married, I thought ADD wasn't a real thing.  After living with him for 6 months, I not only thought it was real, I thought that we needed better research and medication for it.

 

95% of our fights the first year of our marriage were about things that he truly had no control over (ADD-related).  I no longer get mad.  I see that it bothers him just as much or more as it bothers me.  How does you DS feel about these mistakes?  I bet they bother him as much (or more) than they bother you. 

 

There are a lot of good things about a brain that works this way.  My DH wouldn't be as successful as he is if his brain didn't filter out stuff like where ehe left his wallet and cell phone. Try to focus on the good.  And hugs, because I know it's very frustrating at times to live with someone whose brain works this way.

[Pen]

 

- He has (of his own accord) done a big clear out of his room recently, so the clutter is much reduced.  He nevertheless left his desk in such a mess that a speaker fell on his laptop and broke the screen.  He will be paying for the repair, but it's the underlying thought processes that I want to help him with.

 

 

 

Laura

 

 

Where was the speaker in relation to the lap top? Is this a thought process problem (at least in this case) or a physical arrangement problem?

[Laura Corin]

Where was the speaker in relation to the lap top? Is this a thought process problem (at least in this case) or a physical arrangement problem?

 

I don't know - I didn't see it.  I'll have to ask Husband.