How would you respond to this?

[Tranquility7]

Pondering this incident from co-op this week -

 

Teacher: "If you need more help, just say so."

Student raises hand.

Teacher calls on student.

Student: "So." (Other students giggle.)

 

How would you respond if the student were your child and you witnessed this interaction (or heard about it later)?

How would you respond if you were the teacher and the student were not your child (and parent did not witness)?

 

 

[Kiara.I]

Hmmm.  As the teacher, it might prompt a stifled giggle or an internal eyeroll, depending on the day...and then I'd probably say, "Cute.  Did you have a further question?" and move on.

 

As the parent, I'd probably have a quick discussion later where I'd point out that mocking the teacher falls into the same category as mocking any other human, it's not cool, and games are fun only if *everybody* is having fun.  And how some teachers might take that kind of thing really badly, and student could get in trouble for it.

 

And if I were really organized and somehow inventive, I'd figure out a way to do some explicit or situational or covert teaching on humour--what makes things funny, how to judge situation appropriately, etc.  But really, that's stuff I'd only wish I could do and it would stop at the above conversation.

[maize]

I'd grin and move on if I were the teacher. If I were the parent I'd expect the teacher to do the same--a little humor helps life flow smoothly.

Edited September 29, 2016 by maize

[Arcadia]

My DS10 would do something like that and his outside class teachers would just take it as a joke k-8th kids tend to make. It happens often actually. For the high school kids, some of the outside class teachers may "eyeroll" while others might "glare".

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'd grin and move on if I were the teacher. If I were the parent I'd expect the teacher to do the same--a little humor helps life flow smoothly.

 

This.  I don't see it as a big deal. 

[J-rap]

I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but I would let my child know that it could come off as being a little sassy and childish, and he should probably refrain from doing it in the future.   If I were the teacher, I wouldn't make a bid deal of it either.  I'd probably just raise an eyebrow and say, "Yes?"

[macmacmoo]

I got detention in middle school (public school) for saying "not here" when the teacher said if you are not here say not here.

 

If I were the teacher I would have inquire if help was needed. And if none was needed, give a quick lesson on crying wolf

[Guest]

It wouldn't occur to me to even frame that incident as an issue UNLESS they did it more than once. I know some kids that are like a dog with a bone with that kind of thing and don't understand that it's no longer mildly humorous after the first time.

 

The first time, though, I do think it's mildly humorous.

 

And, tbh, if you are the sort of person that expects little human beans to do exactly, literally, what you want or it's an issue, you should speak very deliberately and literally.

[Guest]

I got detention in middle school (public school) for saying "not here" when the teacher said if you are not here say not here.

 

 

 

That's dumb.

 

And, I might add, it's not instructive nor indicative of quality leadership. Over reaction is a great way to lose the respect of everyone in the room.

[regentrude]

Smile and take the joke in stride if it was the first time and ask what precise help is needed.

 

Inner eye roll and tell student it's no longer funny if it was  a repeat.

Edited September 29, 2016 by regentrude

[debi21]

This is along the lines of what my son does. Calls me out on things that aren't 100% literally correct 100% of the time or say, "but you said...." I call him pedantic. Now he sings a little song when I do, "pedantic, pedantic, so so pedantic"

[Vintage81]

If I were the teacher, I'd laugh and then rephrase my instructions..."If you need help, raise your hand."  I'm all about the kids having fun during class, but if everyone else starts thinking they should be silly too, it could create a distraction. 

 

If I were the parent, I would have a quick discussion about it with my child. Something to the effect of...it's okay to have fun during class, but be respectful. It just comes off a little smart-alecky.

[The Governess]

If I were the teacher I might say, "you know what I meant" and move on.

 

If it were my kid, it would be a big deal. Comments like that are made to get attention, and they are a distraction and disrespectful to the teacher. Not the kind of classroom behavior I would want my kids to display.

[Plink]

As teacher, I'd smile and admit, "well done, you're right, I wasn't clear.  If you need help, please let me know."

 

As parent, I'd talk to my child after class and let them know that they weren't acting respectfully. 

Edited September 29, 2016 by Plink

[Critterfixer]

"La, ti, do. Any other questions?"

Well, I wouldn't. But it would be tempting. :D

[Guest]

One-off - I'd probably just tell them that's cute but not what I meant. Repeats are disrespectful and would be corrected. A little silly doesn't hurt, but when it starts to replicate like tribbles it can be an issue in keeping the class focused and moving.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[fairfarmhand]

I'd laugh. And move on after confirming whether the kid really had a question or was just being a smart mouth.

[IsabelC]

As the teacher, I would act mildly amused and then move on (the vibe: 'yes, I can take a joke, but no, it's not that good and we're not going to indulge you any further').
 

As that student's parent, I would tell her/him that the co-op class wasn't the appropriate venue for such humor, that it's better to err on the side of respect for the teacher, and that not wasting class time is one way to show appreciation for the teacher's efforts to help students learn.

Edited October 1, 2016 by IsabelC

[SparklyUnicorn]

Laugh and move on.

 

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

If I witnessed it as parent, I'd say nothing in the moment but probably tell them after that it was inappropriate, unless the teacher happened to run a very humor-laden class (some do this REALLY well... genius teaching style!)

 

If I were the teacher... it would depend on if I'd been having a good day.  LOL!  Let's assume the best, and I'd say something like, "Roger that.  But I'll need a bit more information before I can help!"  Another might be, "Johnny has sent out a "so" alert!  How can I assist?"  (best said in a robot voice, obviously...)

 

ETA:  So much depends on the child and the group as well.  If you have a group or a particular child who will use any excuse to escalate a simple joke to whole-class-chaos, then you pretty much have to stamp it out fast.  But hopefully you have a good group and a calm kid and this can just be part of a fun class ambiance.  

Edited September 30, 2016 by Monica_in_Switzerland

[Tranquility7]

Thanks for all the helpful responses!

Btw, the student was my DS10, I was out of the room, and the teacher was another mom at the co-op. She didn't really respond much, but from watching her in the past I would assume she probably did an internal eyeroll and said an ironic, "Very funny." I only heard about it because DS (who thought he had been clever) told my DH about it, and DH told me.

 

I appreciate all the input because stuff like this can drive me *crazy* and I needed to guage whether I'm over-reacting. I just feel like it is disrespectful and smart alecky, trying to get attention and amuse his friends rather than learn and be a blessing to his teacher. If left to myself, I'm liable to come down hard on DS for it. We have had a good conversation about it, and for now I've told him if I hear him make another comment like that he will end up sitting next to me for the rest of the class period. Probably still over-reacting for lots of folks, but I just can't totally let it go. It's the kind of thing that he sees other kids do, and I think he is testing the waters, you know? So I am going to make the water very hot :-)

[HS Mom in NC]

I'll tell you a few stories to give you a frame of reference for how wide cultural norms are in different educational environments. Be aware of the norm before you decide how to react.  If your reaction isn't in keeping with the cultural norm or higher than the cultural norm, then the class probably isn't for you.  There's probably another class that's a better fit somewhere.

 

At our Tae Kwon Do school (Asian run and attended by the children of mostly Asian immigrants) a kid once volunteered to demonstrate and then made a joke to get the other kids to laugh.  The master said very firmly, "You're wasting the class's time. Do 30 push ups." All the parents were fine with that punishment.

The parents and kids were told the blackbelts had to do 1,000 cutting motion exercises at home, video at least 100 of them and tag the TKD school with it by the end of the weekend.  All but 4 teen kids (in a class of 30+ kids ages 9-adult) forgot.  At the end of Monday's class the 4 who did it were dismissed and the rest were told, "I told you to video your cuts.  You didn't.  You have until Sunday to video at least 100 of the now 2,000 cuts or don't bother coming back. " He meant it.  All the parents were completely fine with it.

I would scold my kid for being a PIA to the teacher based on what was described in the OP.  I hire the best teachers available when my I outsource.  I expect my kids to be the best behaved kids in their classes because the teachers deserve it and there's no reason my kids can't be among the best behaved. Plenty of homeschoolers stop volunteering to run and teach co-ops because they're tired of obnoxious kid or obnoxious parent behaviors.  How many threads have there been here about how few co-op opportunities are available?  How many about why veterans refuse to host or plan things anymore?  The OP describes mildly annoying behavior  and I can't imagine a typical white person educational environment wanting the kid kicked out or punished, but if that teacher has multiple kids doing that kind of thing frequently and their parents don't feel compelled to confront it, it is possible the teacher may choose to stop doing in next year because s/he may simply not want to deal with it anymore. What's the overall scale?  That will will influence a teacher's decision.

My middle daughter's archery coaches got sick of it too.  Instead of confronting the PIA kids and parents they simply developed a purge policy.  The publicized archery classes ran for about 4-5 months (pay for the month as you go) and then the coaches announced that they were ending the class at the end of the month.  Everyone went home.  Then the coaches called the parents who weren't a pain who had kids who weren't a pain and told them about the invitation only class that wasn't publicized and that they wanted them to continue.  That's how they operated because too many parents can't handle hearing that their kid isn't coachable or that the parents are overbearing or unreliable in some way.  So posters should be aware of stealth practices that have developed because American culture is  generally uncomfortable with confrontation. 

There are invitation only stealth groups in the homeschooling community; I'm part of one.  (I didn't start it and I don't host it.) It's expected that members not invite anyone else in unless they're a very good dynamic match for the group. Officially, the class is full. Unofficially, the class is open but there's pressure to select your invitees very carefully.  A significant change in dynamic can ruin things for everyone.  We learned that the hard way by inviting a couple of people in who did nothing but cause problems and we should've known better based on temperament and parenting styles.  The two biggest fails were the overbearing, rigid, fussy parent and the non-parent. Other factors included wanting to make a major change to long established class policy and throwing a fit about it. It that situation, instead of signing up the parent should've chosen not to because it was clearly not a good match.

[luuknam]

If I were the teacher (in a bored voice): "Ha ha, anyone else?"

If I were the parent I'd probably ignore it if it only happened once (unless I witnessed it and the teacher seemed upset).

 

I try to not micromanage my kids in outside classes. If there's a problem, I'll do something, but something like this, one time, meh - I think the teacher would be able to handle it him/herself.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Whether my child or not I'd roll my eye's a bit and say "ha, ha, cute... anyway...."  Very light. Later if it had been my child I'd remind them that since they're the teacher's kid the other kids take their cues from them and occasionally playing around is fine (after all I am a cool mom) but to please not make it a regular occurrence. I'd say about that, maybe a little more serious if it were my kid in someone else's class.

If it was someone else's kid I wouldn't do a thing unless they became disrespectful or interrupted class often, then I'd talk to the kid first and the parent if it continued.

Edited October 1, 2016 by foxbridgeacademy

[Tranquility7]

... Be aware of the norm before you decide how to react...

There are invitation only stealth groups in the homeschooling community; I'm part of one.  (I didn't start it and I don't host it.) It's expected that members not invite anyone else in unless they're a very good dynamic match for the group. Officially, the class is full. Unofficially, the class is open but there's pressure to select your invitees very carefully.  A significant change in dynamic can ruin things for everyone.  We learned that the hard way by inviting a couple of people in who did nothing but cause problems and we should've known better based on temperament and parenting styles.  The two biggest fails were the overbearing, rigid, fussy parent and the non-parent. Other factors included wanting to make a major change to long established class policy and throwing a fit about it. It that situation, instead of signing up the parent should've chosen not to because it was clearly not a good match.

 

Appreciate your post, and I could not agree more! The ironic thing is, this already IS one of those "stealth by-invitation-only carefully-selected" co-op groups! Only 4 families, 9 kids total, and super careful about preserving the dynamic and being on the same page before the group allows others to join. I am SO *not* a joiner, but if I can't make *this* group work, then no group will!

 

That being said, part of what makes the group great is that while we are like-minded on many things, we are also on the same page when it comes to respecting the fact that different families have different styles, rules, etc. The teacher who was part of DS's exchange doesn't mind that kind of thing from her own kids, but also wouldn't mind my correcting her kids if the situation were reversed (though I wouldn't, in this particular example). So all that to say, I do feel freedom to deal with this however I want to, but I was just trying to gauge the Hive's opinion to see how much of an outlier I am, to hopefully keep myself from over-reacting.

Edited October 1, 2016 by tranquility7

[8circles]

I don't generally like that obnoxious humor at someone's expense but I would just acknowledge the joke "Very cute.  Did you have an actual question?" and move on.  If it became frequent or more disruptive I'd say something.

[Reefgazer]

I would laugh in both instances.

[mamiof5]

I got detention in middle school (public school) for saying "not here" when the teacher said if you are not here say not here.

 

You made me laugh! Sorry you got detention though, that's silly

[Plink]

A what?

 I can't imagine a typical white person educational environment 

 

[Mimm]

Thanks for all the helpful responses!

Btw, the student was my DS10, I was out of the room, and the teacher was another mom at the co-op. She didn't really respond much, but from watching her in the past I would assume she probably did an internal eyeroll and said an ironic, "Very funny." I only heard about it because DS (who thought he had been clever) told my DH about it, and DH told me.

 

I appreciate all the input because stuff like this can drive me *crazy* and I needed to guage whether I'm over-reacting. I just feel like it is disrespectful and smart alecky, trying to get attention and amuse his friends rather than learn and be a blessing to his teacher. If left to myself, I'm liable to come down hard on DS for it. We have had a good conversation about it, and for now I've told him if I hear him make another comment like that he will end up sitting next to me for the rest of the class period. Probably still over-reacting for lots of folks, but I just can't totally let it go. It's the kind of thing that he sees other kids do, and I think he is testing the waters, you know? So I am going to make the water very hot :-)

 

No, I think it's good to come down on him. I've had some real smart alecks in my co-op classes before, some of whom had parents I could go to and say, "Hey, your kid is driving me nuts," and not offend the parent. I'm pretty tolerant of it and wouldn't be offended but at the same time, it does get a bit tiresome after a while. As the teacher, you don't want to overreact to what is a pretty mild joke, but you also don't want to laugh and encourage the behavior so that it happens more and more, so it left me not really knowing how to respond. In that situation I probably would have smiled and said, "Soooooo... what was your question?" :)

[HS Mom in NC]

A what?

 

That statement was in the context of contrasting Asian immigrant cultural norms to mainstream Caucasian American educational norms. (Caucasian, US trained teacher or homeschooler and mostly Caucasian kids.)  Most white parents are far more lenient and tolerant of student behavior issues compared to the Asian immigrants which I gave examples of.  Asian schools are notorious for being demanding about both academic and behavioral standards compared to the the standards of behavior among most white people.  I have no first hand knowledge of other types of ethnic dominated educational environments. There are homeschooling groups and coaches, as I pointed out, who have higher expectations of behavior and I listed how they choose to deal with the problem.

 

All of that was to make the readers here aware of some drastic differences in cultural norms.  There have been discussions here about the consequences for children forgetting their belt or gear at martial arts schools. At Asian run schools attended by primarily Asian immigrants, parents wouldn't even consider sending a child to class unprepared (missing a piece of gear) because it would be considered disrespectful to the teacher and the school.  The would eat the cost and not complain because it was a family failure. Other marital arts schools institute anything from warnings to push ups.  It's a whole different world because of the differing degrees of childcenteredness/individuality/feelings in the typical white educational environment contrasted against meeting standards/conforming to behavioral norms/instruction in the Asian immigrant educational environment.  At the Asian schools the learning/instruction is superior to all things.  At typical white people educational environments, the feelings of the child and mommies reign supreme.  I've heard quite a few teachers of all types trained in the US saying things like, "I didn't know there was anything other than child centered educational philosophies-I thought it was a given."

[AMJ]

Pondering this incident from co-op this week -

 

Teacher: "If you need more help, just say so."

Student raises hand.

Teacher calls on student.

Student: "So." (Other students giggle.)

 

How would you respond if the student were your child and you witnessed this interaction (or heard about it later)?

How would you respond if you were the teacher and the student were not your child (and parent did not witness)?

 

 

Response (also works as response to "So what?"):  "Sew buttons on your underwear."  Then move on.

[AMJ]

This is along the lines of what my son does. Calls me out on things that aren't 100% literally correct 100% of the time or say, "but you said...." I call him pedantic. Now he sings a little song when I do, "pedantic, pedantic, so so pedantic"

 

 

Record him sometime, and save the recording for when he has kids.  Then play it back for him when his child does something similar.   :laugh:

 

There are some advantages to having grown up before video cameras were owned and used by parents everywhere.  I have plausible deniability that I ever did such things.

[AMJ]

Appreciate your post, and I could not agree more! The ironic thing is, this already IS one of those "stealth by-invitation-only carefully-selected" co-op groups! Only 4 families, 9 kids total, and super careful about preserving the dynamic and being on the same page before the group allows others to join. I am SO *not* a joiner, but if I can't make *this* group work, then no group will!

 

That being said, part of what makes the group great is that while we are like-minded on many things, we are also on the same page when it comes to respecting the fact that different families have different styles, rules, etc. The teacher who was part of DS's exchange doesn't mind that kind of thing from her own kids, but also wouldn't mind my correcting her kids if the situation were reversed (though I wouldn't, in this particular example). So all that to say, I do feel freedom to deal with this however I want to, but I was just trying to gauge the Hive's opinion to see how much of an outlier I am, to hopefully keep myself from over-reacting.

 

 

I do like your motives for mentioning it here.  What is obvious to many isn't obvious to some -- people tend to notice things differently.  Some of us don't read people as well as others, and new (to us) situations can leave us feeling uncertain about how to appropriately react.  Asking in a safe place (like these forums) is a good way to get a cross-check on our gut reactions.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

My opinion as a teacher and a mom is that anyone who can't handle this with good humor should not be teaching.  And anyone who can't tell students to "knock it off" in polite language if they take the joke too far should not be teaching.  It shouldn't be a big deal for anyone.  Redirect and move on. 

[Mimm]

This is along the lines of what my son does. Calls me out on things that aren't 100% literally correct 100% of the time or say, "but you said...." I call him pedantic. Now he sings a little song when I do, "pedantic, pedantic, so so pedantic"

 

I've told my middle child that if she had a superpower, it would be correcting people. She gets it from my husband. Listening to the two of them when they disagree makes me want to invest in some industrial strength mega ear plugs. ;)

[Tanaqui]

For that level of joking around, I think it's better to ignore it and move on. The most I'd do in reply if a kid pulled that on me is ask, seriously, if they needed help. When they said no, I'd move on and so long as I didn't have a rash of kids saying "so" when they didn't need help, I wouldn't even bring it up again.

 

(I suppose I might end up with a bunch of kids saying "so" every time they did need help, but honestly, that's nothing to get worked up about either!)

 

Of course, you have to bear in mind, I used to tell the kids "I don't want to hear a peep out of you!" at bedtime and then stand outside their door silently cracking up as they went "peep peep peep" for three minutes. They were apparently under the impression that this annoyed me - the older one sat me down one day and seriously told me that "you shouldn't say that, that makes us do it!". On the contrary, I thought it was hilarious. (Once I confessed this, they never did it again :( )