s/o money expressions

[HomeAgain]

I think, for me, it's the attitude "we can't afford that" conveys.  The words are so negative.  It's not a good way to think about money if all the statements a person makes are negative and removes the person from power - like it's the money's fault it's not there.

 

It's a mental game, but saying "that's not in the budget" says something a whole lot different.  The budget is something I *am* in control of, I made, and I told the money where to go.  It gives me direction and a plan.  That's a positive thing.  Theoretically I could shift the budget around, plan $25 for groceries for the week and eat really, really simply while I spend $100 on a new pair of headphones I just have to have, or take the money out of savings to do so, and put the headphones in the budget.  If I wanted to, I could make things happen, but it might be at the expense of something else that I value (like a well balanced diet).  But it lets me make the choice, which is more important to me, to have that positive aspect of choice, than to say words that would constantly cut at my psyche.

[SKL]

"Free at the time of need/service" is another phrase I'm trying to use, especially in regard to health care. My annual physical isn't free.  It is free at the time of service because I have already paid for it through my insurance premiums. 

 

I always say "included" instead of "free" if it's paid for as a package deal.

[Guest]

I am fascinated that people need to say something some kind of way to feel some kind of feeling.

 

Personality differences for sure. Because i hate beating around the bush almost more than anything else. So "no," or "don't have the money" is +1 for me. "Technically I could move funds from here to there and do without this, that and the other thing but I choose to prioritize XYZ" makes me think: :confused1: :huh: :glare: :chillpill: :chillpill:  :willy_nilly:  :willy_nilly: 

 

I mean, if my own mind/mouth started phrasing things that way. Couldn't care less how other self-talk, obviously.

[SKL]

When my kids started asking me why they didn't have the things their friends have, I started saying, "we have different priorities for how we spend our money.  I'm sure you have some things and opportunities that they don't have also."

 

I also say "that is overpriced" if that's how I feel about it.  Often followed by "we could get it at a better price on ebay" or "if we wait a while, the price will probably go down."

 

Ever since my kids were babies, I have tried to avoid saying the negative side of things.  This is because of how kids' minds work.  If you tell a little kid "don't do X," they just have to do X, without even realizing they are "disobeying."  They don't register the "don't."  So I got in the habit of always trying to find a positive way to say the same thing.

 

I also have a slight hang-up about trying to be accurate.  That's why "free" rubs me the wrong way.  "I can't afford it" is usually not the reason I choose not to buy things.  I'd just rather save the money for education etc.  And most of the time I really truly don't want the thing.  We have too much stuff!  Often my protest is more "we don't have any place to put that" or "we wouldn't have time to use / take care of that."

[Guest]

I know I come across as really judge-y online. (Can I blame my Myers Briggs on that?) But it's not how I mean to express myself. Really I find it empowering to know I am making decisions about my budget and that I do not spend money on items that are not as important to me.

 

I have been up and down financially but never poor, in my own estimation. Right now, though, I am scraping the bottom. Longing after things. I hate my car. I just cut my own hair and did a pretty wretched job. Eating beans. That kind of thing. But I do spend on the crucial things, and am working on appreciating what I have, knowing it is what I chose to prioritize. Priorities for us. Curriculum. Fitness. Make sense?

I do agree that it is empowering to frame it as a choice, rather than always, knee-jerk reactively saying, "we can't afford it." This is what I resented growing up, because my parents were poor and diidn't seem to ever DO anything about it, except hope-pray-hopety-hope. It seemed like my mom was always just looking at daunting expenses, shrugging, and saying, "we can't afford it," so necessary things went on for far too long without being addressed; it seemed they didn't look for a solution, but just stuck their heads in the sand while saying, "we can't..."

 

However - there are some things I would say we can't afford because it would take a lot of debt or a drastic change of lifestyle in order to afford it and it isn't worth that to me. I could afford a lot of desirable things if I worked FT in the city, as I did before kids, because our needs are met by DH's income and all that additional money would be mostly for wants. But this would be a drastic lifestyle change and I would have to (obviously) quit hsing, and would even have to give up spending time helping with homework, seeing DS16s soccer games, being available for volunteer work. I'm not willing to do that at present, so we are going without some things that would be nice to have/do for now in favor of interacting with my kids while I still can.

[ThursdayNext]

I really don't understand why people hate 'I can't afford that.' as a statement of fact.

 

If you can buy groceries ( a need) but can't pay for that homeschool class ( a want) without dipping into the grocery money, you can't afford the want. It's not as if there is a real choice to be made between feeding your family and taking a dance class or something, kwim ?

Yes. I use the phrase "can't afford that." I suppose I really could cut phones and Internet, and start skipping meals or eating only cheap carbs. But that doesn't make sense. We have chosen to live with phones and Internet, and sometimes the only other place to trim the budget is food.

 

I frequently tell my kids we don't have the money for things. Do you really think they'll be scarred for life to hear that?

That if we did that fun expensive activity, there would be no more grocery shopping the rest of the month. Now when we've needed shoes and didn't have the money, we ate out of the pantry and made a lot of lentils and other meatless meals. But shoes were a need.

[poppy]

Yes. I use the phrase "can't afford that." I suppose I really could cut phones and Internet, and start skipping meals or eating only cheap carbs. But that doesn't make sense. We have chosen to live with phones and Internet, and sometimes the only other place to trim the budget is food.

 

I frequently tell my kids we don't have the money for things. Do you really think they'll be scarred for life to hear that?

That if we did that fun expensive activity, there would be no more grocery shopping the rest of the month. Now when we've needed shoes and didn't have the money, we ate out of the pantry and made a lot of lentils and other meatless meals. But shoes were a need.

Maybe 'we don't need that' would be more useful than 'we can't afford that'.

 

Not judging , every family does it different , but for me the idea of defining 'needs ' is more useful than listing deprivations.

 

Another optional but not really expense ? Pets. My dog costs more than $50 a month in food and shots and a once a week sitter so we can go to coop. I am sure my dog expense is not on the high end for dog owners! But it's not a 'need'.... Or rather by adopting the dog I chose a 'need' that has rather significant ongoing costs. I have told my kids 'nah we're not joining the club with the pool this year because we got the puppy instead!' Cheerfully . But I could just as honestly have said 'we can't afford the club'.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Bluegoat]

I am fascinated that people need to say something some kind of way to feel some kind of feeling.

 

Personality differences for sure. Because i hate beating around the bush almost more than anything else. So "no," or "don't have the money" is +1 for me. "Technically I could move funds from here to there and do without this, that and the other thing but I choose to prioritize XYZ" makes me think: :confused1: :huh: :glare: :chillpill: :chillpill:  :willy_nilly:  :willy_nilly:

 

I mean, if my own mind/mouth started phrasing things that way. Couldn't care less how other self-talk, obviously.

 

I think how people frame things to themselves can make a huge difference to perception.

 

For me, to say "I can't afford it" doesn't make much difference, because I don't tend to feel passive in relation to what I can do - I just don't relate to money (in that sense) in a way that is a problem.

 

But some people really do - they feel powerless, or like they are always trying to figure things out.  My dh used to become quite frustrated because he had somehow internalized the idea that as a person with a good job, he should be able to afford everything that seemed "reasonable". 

 

I think when we need to reframe things, it helps to be much more careful about using accurate language than we are under normal circumstances.  And many people do seem to have money issues of one kind or another.

[SKL]

It's an interesting question how all of this affects kids.  I grew up in a home where, if we bothered to ask at all (we usually didn't), the answer was usually "no, we can't afford it."

Then one day my mom was appalled at hearing me say "we're poor."

 

I think the result is a mixed bag.  I learned how to be pretty frugal, which helped me a lot as an adult.  However, I can't say the same for all of my siblings.  :P  Maybe I would have been frugal either way?

 

I learned not to take things for granted, not to waste, not to value stuff that isn't important, and I certainly was humble, possibly to a fault.  Some of my emotions about stuff were not so commendable.  I had opinions about people with more material wealth, which were not really fair.  Also, there were things I really should have felt free to discuss with my parents, or ask about, but I figured I knew what the answer would be - "no."  I didn't even consider the possibility of going to college anywhere except the nearby regional branch of the state college - the only one I could commute to.  I wasn't financially "good enough," even though, in retrospect, I probably could have gotten an aid package at various universities.  No biggie for me, but for some kids that might be life-changing.

 

So I dunno.  I would rather not paint a gloom and doom picture if I can avoid it.  Instead of saying "no," I prefer to tell my kids what it would take to have the thing they want.  The end material result may be the same, but the end psychological result might be different.

[luuknam]

There is a word for that!

 

Thoil.  I love this word.

 

http://www.miss-thrifty.co.uk/2009/04/01/thoil/

 

They spoke of something called thoil; apparently it’s an old Yorkshire word that means to be able to afford something, but to be unable to justify the expense.

As in: “I can’t thoil the flatscreen TV and the Blu-Ray DVD playerâ€.

 

Awesome! I would totally start using that, if it didn't start with th. "I can't foil the flatscreen TV" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

[poppy]

I think how people frame things to themselves can make a huge difference to perception.

 

For me, to say "I can't afford it" doesn't make much difference, because I don't tend to feel passive in relation to what I can do - I just don't relate to money (in that sense) in a way that is a problem.

 

But some people really do - they feel powerless, or like they are always trying to figure things out.  My dh used to become quite frustrated because he had somehow internalized the idea that as a person with a good job, he should be able to afford everything that seemed "reasonable". 

 

I think when we need to reframe things, it helps to be much more careful about using accurate language than we are under normal circumstances.  And many people do seem to have money issues of one kind or another.

 

For me it's more "how do we talk about it as a family / to the kids" than "how do I feel about it". It's a way to engage kids about budgeting and decision making. 

[Guest]

I have no problem telling my kids we cannot afford certain things.

 

We also have a category for 'too expensive at the moment but we can budget toward that'.

 

Additionally we have the 'yes, we can purchase that now' area, and the 'that's not something we'd ever buy even if money were no object'.

 

 

The 'we cannot afford it' thing isn't some made up malady. When bills and insurances and debts are paid and there isn't more than $12 in the checking account after that, a whole lot is presently unaffordable. My kids understand that our income is sufficient but not generous and choices are made, as well as some things being beyond our reach for the immediate or foreseeable future. And when emergencies and random accidents throw us in the red even things we could have budgeted for before are now unaffordable. The older kids get it and realize we do the best we can with the circumstances we have, and hope they don't get leaner. We are still very fortunate and haven't had to move to keep a roof over our heads, so yay!

[Julie Smith]

The other thread made me think of the statement, "We can't afford that."

 

It always bothered me when I was younger and people I knew were earning fairly good salaries would say that. I'd think, "You're earning twice what I am! What do you mean?" 

 

Now, I always try to say something more like, "We haven't budgeted for that," (or "That isn't something we value," if I am explaining it to my kids). 

 

So, we value private music lessons and take them but we haven't budgeted for non-used clothes. This was something I saw with a family growing up, where the kids had their own apartment and fax machine in the best school district but the boy didn't own any pants, only shorts (the parents lived in another country - weird situation). The values were education and communication with family and, the climate being fairly mild, long pants were not bought.

 

What expressions have you tried to change for your family?

 

Emily

 

That thing about pants is funny for me. 

 

Several years ago my boys were going to their first piano recital. I looked through their clothes for some pants and realized that, with the exception of snow pants Eldest didn't own any pants that fit him. 

[SKL]

Well, even if "we can't afford it" is true, isn't there more to the story (for the kids to learn)?

 

Would we buy it if we *could* afford it?

 

Is it worth trying to save for?  Or would it be an imprudent purchase for us regardless?

 

What is the reason we can't afford it right now?  I remember my 7yo niece pointing out that hey, you have credit cards, you could have afforded it!  Is it a matter of cash available, or priorities + budgeting?

 

Is there a wiser way to satisfy the need/want without spending this amount of money on this item?

 

If we just say "can't afford it," do the kids learn anything other than "let's buy it as soon as we can afford it"?

[luuknam]

If we just say "can't afford it," do the kids learn anything other than "let's buy it as soon as we can afford it"?

 

I don't think you'd have to dissect every financial decision in order for the kids to learn something. You could say "we can't afford it" 95% of the time and still have plenty of opportunities left to explain the reasoning and nuances and all that the other 5% of the time. So, yeah, I don't think you should just say "we can't afford it" 100% of the time, but I don't think it's the end of the world to tell kids that.

[Guest]

A lot of overthinking it in this thread. A lot of baggage attached to plain speaking and matters of fact.

Sheesh, pretty much! And apparently impending emotional damage to children. But this is the hive we are talking about :lol:

[Scarlett]

True!

 

It's funny how you never know which topic will make the bees swarm :)

No kidding! But I do like that thoil word.

[poppy]

A lot of overthinking it in this thread. A lot of baggage attached to plain speaking and matters of fact.

 

I do find it a little ironic that some of the  same posters who preferred the euphemism   "on a fixed income" over "on disability / on social security / low income / poor " are, in this thread, speaking of the virtues of being matter of fact and plain speaking!

 

But really it's like anything on the internet.  If you agree with someone, they are showing common sense.  If not, they either don't get it, or are overthinking it. 

[Melissa in Australia]

I see no problem with saying we can't afford that. It is so much politer than saying I am not wasting my hard saved money on that garbage

[heartlikealion]

"It's not in our budget" is something I would say if I was embarrassed. To ds I might just blurt out, "we can't afford that" because, well, I have many times. Although, I do like the alternative and I may have even used it around ds. 

 

I don't know that internet costs are comparable to taking a family to Disney World. Travel expenses which could include flights and hotels, food, possibly souvenirs. Many people rely on the internet for work-related things or other communication (one of my siblings is in another country and it makes sense to just rely on the internet for communication most of the time). I consider it a more practical use of money, though I'm not anti-Disney. We plan to go one day.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I really don't understand why people hate 'I can't afford that.' as a statement of fact.

 

If you can buy groceries ( a need) but can't pay for that homeschool class ( a want) without dipping into the grocery money,  you can't afford the want. It's not as if there is a real choice to be made between feeding your family and taking a dance class or something, kwim ?

 

I think the "complaint" isn't about the person who'd have to dip into food money to pay for a want, but rather about the person who appears to have quite a bit of money and complains of not being able to afford something.  Which they might truly not have the money for various reasons, but it just feels weird in some cases.  But then I think too that it's just really a short hand statement for saying for various reasons they aren't going to be spending money on something (don't have it, don't want to spend it, been spending too much lately, grew up poor so will forever think they are broke no matter what, etc.).  It's just complicated.  I don't read too much into it.  But then I rarely discuss money with anyone.

[SparklyUnicorn]

A lot of overthinking it in this thread. A lot of baggage attached to plain speaking and matters of fact.

 

Yes, definitely.  No clue what the culture is like in your neck of the woods, but growing up the message was loud and clear for me that appearances matter.  People validate your worth as a human being by the stuff you have, the neighborhood you live in, etc.  One way to gain some sympathy for not having nice enough stuff is to say you don't have the money.  Even if clearly you have plenty of money.

[ThursdayNext]

Well, even if "we can't afford it" is true, isn't there more to the story (for the kids to learn)?

 

Would we buy it if we *could* afford it?

 

Is it worth trying to save for? Or would it be an imprudent purchase for us regardless?

 

What is the reason we can't afford it right now? I remember my 7yo niece pointing out that hey, you have credit cards, you could have afforded it! Is it a matter of cash available, or priorities + budgeting?

 

Is there a wiser way to satisfy the need/want without spending this amount of money on this item?

 

If we just say "can't afford it," do the kids learn anything other than "let's buy it as soon as we can afford it"?

"We can't afford it" is not always the end of the conversation. I might suggest my daughter put 6 flags tickets on her Christmas wish list. If it's something smaller, I might suggest she start saving up for it.

 

For example, if she can come up with $40 from allowance and doing jobs, we will let her get a pet rabbit. It's not just her helping in buying a rabbit and cage, it's proof that she's serious about wanting a rabbit.

 

I use "we don't have the money" for things like ballet lessons. I don't tell her that if we really thought she would be amazing at it we might find a way, even if it delayed our getting out of debt.

[theelfqueen]

I love the word thoil totally got to sneak that into conversation!

For me as a kid, my mom was a spender but I was frequently told we couldn't afford things.... at one point I auditioned into ladies honor choir and almost turned it down rather than ask my parents for money for the required dress... then again I was sure my parents would never let me be an exchange student because it was too expensive... I ended up getting to do these things in the end but I was always afraid to ask for expenses.

 

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[EmilyGF]

OP here.

 

It's interesting to hear the variety of opinions on this!

 

I think the phrase stuck with me (this happened 8 years ago) because it made me realize how much abundance I was living with yet lacking to acknowledge. It helped me realize how much choice I had in my situation and how I was using phrases that refused to acknowledge that. I am mostly concerned about language for those I'm teaching about money by example, mainly my children. I'm not trying to apply this to people who can't afford rent.

 

I'll add that I'm an armchair economist (and that my kids floor economists) so I tend to think about life in terms of multifaceted costs. One of my favorite games for this is Patchwork, where each piece has a "money" cost and a "time" cost, and you have to optimize between the two. We often talk about the trade offs playing that game and those discussions spill over into real life.

 

Emily

[gardenmom5]

This is something I grew up with, but my husband did not. 

 

The phrase "I'm starving." is not appropriate in our home.  There is a huge difference between being hungry and starving. People who are starving do not have access to food. I have family that died because they had no food to eat where they lived in Hungary post WWI. They starved. When my grandmother, great-aunt and their mother made it out of the country, they had no food. They were starving. Once they had access to food, they were no longer starving, they were hungry.  People who have to wait until it's convenient to eat or until the foods they like are available aren't starving, they are hungry. 

 

I feel so strongly about this one that I do correct others when I hear this phrase in my presence. It's that important. It almost makes me cry sometimes, to be honest, because I know there are people out there that are starving. Can you imagine having to decide which of  your children to feed, or not having adequate nutrition to breastfeed your baby and your baby starves? I can't. 

 

this.

 

My fil was a bataan death march survivor.  he spent 3 1/2 years in a pow camp.  he weighed 94 lbs when he was repatriated. (at 6' tall)  my kids dont' use the term "i'm starving".  but I'm not sure they ever heard it when they were young.  they only ever used "I'm hungry".

 

 

my friend's sil couldn't understand why she couldn't afford things when they made more money.  she sat him down one day, and gave him the lesson his mother didn't.  she walked him through everything.  she had more income, but also owned a home which has  more expenses than renting a small apartment.  etc.etc. etc.

 

I don't have a problem saying I can't afford something. even now with a comfortable income.  it might be because it's not a priority - but it could also be income is so tight (we went through prolonged unemployment that sacrificed our savings) that a mortgage payment has far higher value.

 

eta: spelling.  I don't like this keyboard.

Edited October 3, 2016 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

I always say (or think of it to myself as) "that's not a priority for us".

 

I honestly do not buy "We can't afford that".  You are not a passive victim to your budget. You didn't choose to set aside money for something.  I own my decisions.

We've never been to Disney.  We camp.  "We can't afford Disney" is true, given our choices, but I am a person with an iphone.  We're not exactly destitute.  I'm gonna assume anyone who has the internet access to post here frequently budgets hundreds of dollars per year on internet.  It's a priority.

 

Yes I have a special needs child who has a counselor, OT, tutor, psychiatrist out of pocket which also impacts that no-big-vacation thing. It's expensive. But I  assume most families have unpleasant expenses.    Part of life.

 

wow.  nice you've had such a fiscally comfortable life.   (I base that on your words.)

 

I'd love to see what you would do with your 'budget' living below the poverty level with four children.  and yes, we have.  THAT's a reality check.

 

eta: you might want to rethink how you say that.

Edited October 3, 2016 by gardenmom5

[poppy]

wow.  nice you've had such a fiscally comfortable life.   (I base that on your words.)

 

I'd love to see what you would do with your 'budget' living below the poverty level with four children.  and yes, we have.  THAT's a reality check.

 

eta: you might want to rethink how you say that.

 

Did you read the thread?  I had quite more discussion about it later, and i hope I clarified a bit..... 

I have found it very useful to read the whole thread before putting in my thoughts.