s/o money expressions

[EmilyGF]

The other thread made me think of the statement, "We can't afford that."

 

It always bothered me when I was younger and people I knew were earning fairly good salaries would say that. I'd think, "You're earning twice what I am! What do you mean?" 

 

Now, I always try to say something more like, "We haven't budgeted for that," (or "That isn't something we value," if I am explaining it to my kids). 

 

So, we value private music lessons and take them but we haven't budgeted for non-used clothes. This was something I saw with a family growing up, where the kids had their own apartment and fax machine in the best school district but the boy didn't own any pants, only shorts (the parents lived in another country - weird situation). The values were education and communication with family and, the climate being fairly mild, long pants were not bought.

 

What expressions have you tried to change for your family?

 

Emily

[marbel]

I guess we don't tend to say "we can't afford that" but something like 'we don't have money for that" maybe adding "right now."  

 

The only expression I have consciously changed (that I can think of right now, anyway): we say "taxpayer money" instead of "government money" (or "taxpayer-funded" rather than "paid for by the government.")

[TechWife]

This is something I grew up with, but my husband did not. 

 

The phrase "I'm starving." is not appropriate in our home.  There is a huge difference between being hungry and starving. People who are starving do not have access to food. I have family that died because they had no food to eat where they lived in Hungary post WWI. They starved. When my grandmother, great-aunt and their mother made it out of the country, they had no food. They were starving. Once they had access to food, they were no longer starving, they were hungry.  People who have to wait until it's convenient to eat or until the foods they like are available aren't starving, they are hungry. 

 

I feel so strongly about this one that I do correct others when I hear this phrase in my presence. It's that important. It almost makes me cry sometimes, to be honest, because I know there are people out there that are starving. Can you imagine having to decide which of  your children to feed, or not having adequate nutrition to breastfeed your baby and your baby starves? I can't. 

[Cinder]

We also generally say "I didn't budget for that" or "that's not in the budget right now" with regard to choosing not to spend money on certain items.

 

I've also switched to saying "remember" as opposed to "don't forget" to make reminders more positive.

[TechWife]

I guess we don't tend to say "we can't afford that" but something like 'we don't have money for that" maybe adding "right now."  

 

The only expression I have consciously changed (that I can think of right now, anyway): we say "taxpayer money" instead of "government money" (or "taxpayer-funded" rather than "paid for by the government.")

 

"Free at the time of need/service" is another phrase I'm trying to use, especially in regard to health care. My annual physical isn't free.  It is free at the time of service because I have already paid for it through my insurance premiums. 

[Guest]

I tend to say, "I don't value that enough to pay for it," or "I don't choose to spend money on that." I want to focus on the choice. My parents, while growing up, constantly said "can't afford" and I resented our financial situation.

[marbel]

I thought of another.   "Free breakfast" at a hotel.  It's included in the price of the room.   That sort of falls under TechWife's comment above about "free at the time of need/service."    I'm sure there are other things that are paid for indirectly so are called "free."  

[Farrar]

I have sometimes felt awkward about that expression but haven't tried to change it. We are decidedly middle class and definitely *can* afford many things, but can't afford to have or do all of them all at once. I like your alternatives, Emily.

 

 

[creekland]

I don't care one way or another with expressions.  They're essentially all ok for me.  

 

When teaching my boys about budget and $$ we used the phrase, "You can only spend it once, so choose wisely.  They won't give it back to you to use again."  Then we make our choices.

[Guest]

'That's too expensive'...typically used when the person means 'its not in my budget, I want it, and I would like it for the clearance price if it cant be had for free'. I just rephrase that to 'I dont see the value in that at the asking price' or 'I am too cheap to pay that price for so little value'.

[pinkmint]

"It's not in our budget" is mine.

 

I am not totally against "can't afford it" because I think it's silly that we cant just say what we mean, but people live in different worlds. One person may say they can't afford groceries and diapers, and then someone else complains they can't afford a (completely cosmetic) bathroom renovation. 

 

I think there needs to be balance. I like to acknowledge the idea that there are both choices AND circumstances. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't say, "Do as I say not as I do." 

 

Yes, my mother really did say that regularly.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

With money, I just say I don't want to spend money on that.

 

 

[TechWife]

With money, I just say I don't want to spend money on that.

 

I like this a lot. 

[Happy]

I thought of another.   "Free breakfast" at a hotel.  It's included in the price of the room.   That sort of falls under TechWife's comment above about "free at the time of need/service."    I'm sure there are other things that are paid for indirectly so are called "free."  

It's weird though....

 

Due to my husband's work, he and occasionally I get to stay in different hotels. It amazes me that the relatively cheaper Hampton Inn, Holiday Inn Express, etc. include 'free' breakfast, internet, and parking in the room amount. While at higher end hotels that cost significantly more, breakfast doesn't exist, internet costs 12.95 a day, and parking is 50-80 bucks a day. 

 

Yes it depends on location but wow. Sometimes things are included in room prices to encourage business type people to make use of that hotel.

 

I do like the phrase, free at the time of service. That makes such good sense.

[HomeAgain]

Yes!  I hate the phrase "we can't afford that".  We could, but then groceries might be shifted out of the budget.  I like to be in charge of my money, not the other way around.

 

Also,

"That's too expensive" becomes "That's not a good value for us"

"I'm so broke" becomes "The budget is zero-dollared."

[lllll]

nm

Edited October 4, 2016 by Cathi

[Guest]

Yes! I hate the phrase "we can't afford that". We could, but then groceries might be shifted out of the budget. I like to be in charge of my money, not the other way around.

 

Also,

"That's too expensive" becomes "That's not a good value for us"

"I'm so broke" becomes "The budget is zero-dollared."

I do say we can't afford something when I mean it. Like, we need a mattress for one of the kids and literally cannot buy it right now without going into the red. Not only that but everything else at this point is unaffordable - the money is tied up in bills and debt and just not there. Groceries and gas are tightly budgeted for another week and a half too.

 

One thing a blogger I love says that I agree with us that we cannot afford everything but we can afford anything - it speaks to budget prioritizing and choices and for those who aren't in abject poverty it's true that we make our choices. Once the choice is made though, saying 'I can't afford that' is often true - money is finite and adding things in outside the allotted expenses doesn't work.

 

I do think that 'it's not in my budget' is roughly equivalent but not always true. Even if it were in my budget at this point there just wouldn't be cash available. Without selling off our home we cannot afford to shift any money beyond he absolute basics of food, housing, transportation, etc. And those are tightened down as well until we can get on top of some of the medical costs.

 

I'm really grateful we can make our rent, insurance, and the most basic of groceries. I'm also glad we haven't had to ration power or cut simple things like our phones or Netflix. That and some Costco coffee beans are about as luxurious as we can get right now but I'm grateful. We aren't starving or homeless and our clothes are worn but warm. Works for me!

[Xahm]

I tell my daughter "we'd rather spend our money on something else." She's 4 and understands that well. When she sees the M&M vending machine at the zoo, she'll exclaim, "they are trying to trick us! If we wait until we get to the store we can buy way more fore the same money!" I guess I'm trying to focus on delayed gratification to help make wise decisions.

[marbel]

I really don't understand why people hate 'I can't afford that.' as a statement of fact.

 

If you can buy groceries ( a need) but can't pay for that homeschool class ( a want) without dipping into the grocery money,  you can't afford the want. It's not as if there is a real choice to be made between feeding your family and taking a dance class or something, kwim ?

 

After earlier saying that we don't tend to say "we can't afford that," Sadie's posts have made me realize that of course we do say it sometimes.

 

We moved across the country 9 years ago.  We've never gone back to visit.  There are two reasons:  one is that we're a little bit afraid of the new wave of homesickness it will cause.  But really the more important reason is:  we simply can't afford it.   The airfare is out of reach for our family of four.  It's not really a matter of moving $$ from one budget category to another.  We simply do not have the money (outside of long term/retirement savings and emergency fund) to pay $2000+ for airfare, not to mention other travel expenses, no matter how much we might like to go.

 

If one of my kids wants to go to a particular college that has a high cost and they are not able to get sufficient financial aid/scholarships, then we would have to say that we can't afford to send them.  We would not say "we choose not to spend money on that" when it's something we would gladly choose if we could.

 

Maybe most people are thinking of more everyday examples than this.

 

[Artichoke]

My two standard replies are: 

 

It's not a good use of our money.  

 

That's not worth the price they're asking.  Then we usually discuss why.

[Epicurean]

I really don't understand why people hate 'I can't afford that.' as a statement of fact.

 

If you can buy groceries ( a need) but can't pay for that homeschool class ( a want) without dipping into the grocery money,  you can't afford the want. It's not as if there is a real choice to be made between feeding your family and taking a dance class or something, kwim ?

 

Because based on previous statements, we are talking about people who have incomes are so high that they are NOT choosing between groceries and a homeschool class. Their income is such that they are choosing between a homeschool class and another discretionary spending item, like how much is spent on video game systems, TVs, new cars, toys, eating out, entertainment, etc. I know a family who makes about twice what we do. They live in the same area and because of family connections, were able to build their house for about $80k. So they have a lot of financial advantages going for them. But they're always saying, "We can't afford that," when what they really mean is, "We're spending our money elsewhere." And that's fine. But saying, "We can't afford that," implies that it's not a choice. It implies that they have no power over how their money is spent. Like you said, if it really was between groceries and a non-essential item, then of course saying, "We can't afford that," would be factual. But for a lot of people that just isn't the case.

 

Heck, even when we've been at our poorest, living well below the poverty line, I was still cognizant of the fact that for the most part, that wouldn't apply to us, because we still had luxuries we could cut if we needed money to go to something more worthwhile (within a certain amount, of course). For almost a year we lived without Internet, cable, a TV, Netflix, etc. in order to limit our spending, and there were still several things we could have cut on top of that if it'd been important enough to us. I'm not saying everyone can afford $300 in private music lessons a month or whatever if they just budget correctly. Of course not. But I'm just saying that having been poor, it made me appreciate how we still lived a "rich" lifestyle as Americans in a lot of ways and we were lucky enough not to be deprived of a lot of non-essentials in order to have the essentials. And it's for that reason that it irritates me to hear people who are NOT living in those conditions use phrases that imply that they are painted into a corner and there's nothing they can do because they aren't rich enough to have x or y, when it is clear that they could if they had different priorities. I hope that makes sense.

[Guest]

After earlier saying that we don't tend to say "we can't afford that," Sadie's posts have made me realize that of course we do say it sometimes.

 

We moved across the country 9 years ago. We've never gone back to visit. There are two reasons: one is that we're a little bit afraid of the new wave of homesickness it will cause. But really the more important reason is: we simply can't afford it. The airfare is out of reach for our family of four. It's not really a matter of moving $$ from one budget category to another. We simply do not have the money (outside of long term/retirement savings and emergency fund) to pay $2000+ for airfare, not to mention other travel expenses, no matter how much we might like to go.

 

If one of my kids wants to go to a particular college that has a high cost and they are not able to get sufficient financial aid/scholarships, then we would have to say that we can't afford to send them. We would not say "we choose not to spend money on that" when it's something we would gladly choose if we could.

 

Maybe most people are thinking of more everyday examples than this.

 

We have those bigger ones too, but I even mean it in the more mundane sense. If someone asked me to donate $30 to a charity drive right now we would have to say we couldn't afford it - we totally would pay the money if we could come up with it and we heartily endorse the cause, but there physically isn't credit or cash in our names presently to do it.

 

If we didn't want to, we'd just decline or say it wasn't something we were interested in spending on. But truly, not everyone saying they can't afford things is lying, even if they're gainfully employed in a first world country :)

[Bluegoat]

I really don't understand why people hate 'I can't afford that.' as a statement of fact.

 

If you can buy groceries ( a need) but can't pay for that homeschool class ( a want) without dipping into the grocery money,  you can't afford the want. It's not as if there is a real choice to be made between feeding your family and taking a dance class or something, kwim ?

 

I think in the situation you are talking about, it's just fine.  I think everyone knows what it means.

 

But, I do think at times it's more about choices being made.  I could give up my kids music lessons and do something else with the money, but, I'm not likely to.  Given that I am not going to give up music lessons I maybe can't afford a trip to disney, but really I want the lessons more than the trip.

 

Personally I don't mind "we can't afford it" even then, I think people usually understand the point.  But, I do think sometimes when someone is clearly quite well off and it's all about luxeries, other people can find that phrasing a little hard to take.

[Joyofsixreboot]

I have no problem with "We can't afford that." We even say "No, we're poor." Are we? Well certainly not 3rd world poor but...even though we do far better than our childhoods, internally I will always be poor. It's not a big deal. I do avoid " I could kill you." It just sounds so harsh and unloving. I'm mad at you is fine but no killing.

Edited September 29, 2016 by joyofsix

[luuknam]

Yes!  I hate the phrase "we can't afford that".  We could, but then groceries might be shifted out of the budget.  I like to be in charge of my money, not the other way around.

 

 

Because based on previous statements, we are talking about people who have incomes are so high that they are NOT choosing between groceries and a homeschool class.

 

HomeAgain was (well, not about a homeschool class, but about groceries vs something).

[TechWife]

It's weird though....

 

Due to my husband's work, he and occasionally I get to stay in different hotels. It amazes me that the relatively cheaper Hampton Inn, Holiday Inn Express, etc. include 'free' breakfast, internet, and parking in the room amount. While at higher end hotels that cost significantly more, breakfast doesn't exist, internet costs 12.95 a day, and parking is 50-80 bucks a day. 

 

Yes it depends on location but wow. Sometimes things are included in room prices to encourage business type people to make use of that hotel.

 

I do like the phrase, free at the time of service. That makes such good sense.

 

I've noticed, too, that the internet is included for people who have frequent status at various hotels. For example, if we use my husbands frequent travel number, we never pay for internet and only have to pay for breakfast at super high end hotels. At hotels like Hilton, they give us the internet code and breakfast coupons when we check in. At Omni, they charge everyone a ridiculous daily fee for the internet. At standard hotels like you mentioned, the fees are rolled into the room charge. I think you're right that it's part of attracting business travelers - those with frequent status are almost always business travelers. I can't imagine being able to travel that much on my own dime! 

[StephanieZ]

How about just "No." 

 

Just because I/we can afford things doesn't mean we are willing to buy them.

 

I can afford to buy 100 pounds of candy at the store each week. However, I am not willing to buy it. Indeed, by dd13 asked me to pick up a TWO POUND bag of candy at the grocery today, and I said, nope. She said, "I'll pay,"  I said, "Nope. You eat too much sweets." If her sibling drives her to the store and she spends her money on candy, I'm not going to throw it away, but I'm not helping her buy it (in bulk!). 

 

We could afford most things our kids could want. We choose not to buy them. I think a simple, "No." is really nice. I think we underuse it and overexplain. When I do explain, I tend towards non-money explanations since, in fact, the vast majority of things they'd like I could pay for if I wanted to, but I choose other things instead. "I think it's a waste of money." "You have plenty of jeans." "I'd rather spend our money on a vacation." "Put it on your Christmas list," are a few favorites. My kids are teens now and have pretty much learned not to ask me to pay for stupid stuff. They get a little spending money, and they can easily earn more if they're willing to do chores for me. They have a pretty good idea of the stuff I consider routine expenses and freely ask me for things like that (groceries, school related items or routine activities, basic clothes and grooming), and beyond that, they might ask, but if I say no, they don't push for an explanation and just decide if it's worth it to THEM to earn the money to pay for it (from me, easy chores). Makes my life easier.

 

 

[Guest]

I just start singing "You can't always get what you want" when the kids ask for something that I'm not spending money on. That shuts them up because no one wants Mom to keep singing that song. I think saying "we can't afford that" is totally legit but I honestly got tired of my kids asking "why" so I switched to my new saying and let the Rolling Stone's words speak for me. :) "Hey we need to save money for college and retirement and it's nice to eat food sometimes,"  definitely are topics that get covered with them, but sometimes you don't need to make a case. It just is. 

 

I've honestly never had anyone else even remotely question why I would or wouldn't buy something, so discussing this with my kids is really the only case where this would come up. I bitch about having to pay for this or that to my friends sometimes- like our new roof causing us to defer some plans, but if someone tried to call me out and say, well you really COULD afford XYZ if you wanted to, then they probably wouldn't be my friend after that point because that's just obnoxious. 

[eternalsummer]

We have those bigger ones too, but I even mean it in the more mundane sense. If someone asked me to donate $30 to a charity drive right now we would have to say we couldn't afford it - we totally would pay the money if we could come up with it and we heartily endorse the cause, but there physically isn't credit or cash in our names presently to do it.

 

If we didn't want to, we'd just decline or say it wasn't something we were interested in spending on. But truly, not everyone saying they can't afford things is lying, even if they're gainfully employed in a first world country :)

 

You could afford it though, if you really really wanted (or had) to.  You could sell some clothes, definitely could sell your phone/stop paying for it, sell other electronics maybe, etc.

 

It is an extreme version of affording it, but you could afford it.  You just choose (wisely) not to.

 

 

There are things I really really can't afford.  Like a private jet.  I could sell everything I have and eat beans from the food pantry for 2 years and live in a tent in a national park and I still couldn't buy a private jet.

 

I tend to use "we can't afford it" as shorthand for "that is not a tradeoff (money or otherwise) we're willing or easily able to make"

[Ellie]

The other thread made me think of the statement, "We can't afford that."

 

It always bothered me when I was younger and people I knew were earning fairly good salaries would say that. I'd think, "You're earning twice what I am! What do you mean?" 

 

Now, I always try to say something more like, "We haven't budgeted for that," (or "That isn't something we value," if I am explaining it to my kids). 

 

So, we value private music lessons and take them but we haven't budgeted for non-used clothes. This was something I saw with a family growing up, where the kids had their own apartment and fax machine in the best school district but the boy didn't own any pants, only shorts (the parents lived in another country - weird situation). The values were education and communication with family and, the climate being fairly mild, long pants were not bought.

 

What expressions have you tried to change for your family?

 

Emily

 

First I decide whether or not we would do or buy that thing if money were no object. It becomes an easy excuse, somehow less painful than telling the children "no," to tell them that we couldn't afford it.

 

If we wouldn't do or buy that thing anyway, I just bite the bullet and say no. If we would buy or do that thing but we can't afford it, I would tell the dc that I would have to think about it, rather than saying that we couldn't afford it. After thinking about it, if money really were the reason we couldn't do or buy, I'd be open and tell the dc that it just wasn't in the budget.

 

I have a friend who always uses "we can't afford it" for *everything.* It's so annoying, because she actually does spend the money on things she wants to. And for myself, I don't feel the need to tell complete strangers about my money issues. My friend's daughter was invited to join a women's singing group; instead of just saying no, she said she couldn't afford the dues and costumes and whatnot. In fact, yes they could, but at any rate, her finances are private; those people didn't need to know why she wasn't going to join. It was enough to say "no."

[fdrinca]

I find it telling when someone doing well (better than I?) offers "we can't afford it" as an excuse. It makes me reconsider fiscal responsibility myself. There's always extra retirement/college saving, mortgage pay-down, and general savings to be done. 

[marbel]

The other thread made me think of the statement, "We can't afford that."

 

It always bothered me when I was younger and people I knew were earning fairly good salaries would say that. I'd think, "You're earning twice what I am! What do you mean?" 

 

<snip>

 

Earning a good salary has little to do with what people can afford.

 

We know a lot of young people, graduate students.  They don't make a lot of money, surely not as much as my husband does.  They seem to do things that we might say we can't afford (travel, eating out a lot, newer cars).   How can that be?  My husband makes a lot more than a waiter and a nanny combined.  

 

But they live in small apartments with low rent.  We live in a house with a high mortgage because of home values at the time we bought (not because we bought a huge house in a tony neighborhood).  We have a kid who had high medical needs for a few years, some of which was not covered by insurance.  

 

So they fly back home to the west coast twice a year while we do not.   Etc.

 

I never look at someone's salary and think they should be able to afford something they say they can't.  For one thing, it's none of my business.  But also, I just don't necessarily have all the information to make that judgment.

[DawnM]

There is a word for that!

 

Thoil.  I love this word.

 

http://www.miss-thrifty.co.uk/2009/04/01/thoil/

 

Here in Yorkshire, United Kingdom, people have a reputation for being very friendly – but very tight with their money. I thought it was an unfair stereotype, until I saw a chap at the deli counter in Sainsburys, sucking air through his teeth and asking the wearied sales assistant to “do him a price†on a slice of ham. On the bright side, the beer here is very cheap.

Recently I was reading the Yorkshire Post and came across an interview with a couple of farming sisters. They spoke of something called thoil; apparently it’s an old Yorkshire word that means to be able to afford something, but to be unable to justify the expense.

As in: “I can’t thoil the flatscreen TV and the Blu-Ray DVD playerâ€.

I’d never heard it before, so I looked it up – and it exists all right. It’s delightfully Yorkshire, isn’t it? I think it’s a wonderful word!

I like the idea behind it: the noisy sentiment that just because you have the money, you don’t have to spend the stuff all at once. And why should you?

[creekland]

One of my middle son's best (spending money) teaching moments didn't come from us saying, "no."  It came from us letting him spend his own spending money on a $2 or $3 toy trinket from a gift shop.  We knew it was cheaply made and wouldn't last or interest him for long and we mentioned that, but added that he could get it if he wanted to since it was his money. He gets to choose where to spend it - again - reminding him that he could only spend it once.

 

The toy broke within an hour or two.  He's remembered the lesson ever since, occasionally even bringing it up when considering whether to buy something or not.  Cool packaging and/or instant gratification is not always worth giving up hard earned money for, but if we had said "no" I doubt the results would have been so lasting.

[Guest]

I really don't understand why people hate 'I can't afford that.' as a statement of fact.

 

If you can buy groceries ( a need) but can't pay for that homeschool class ( a want) without dipping into the grocery money, you can't afford the want. It's not as if there is a real choice to be made between feeding your family and taking a dance class or something, kwim ?

For me, I usually don't say "can't afford it" unless it is something I literally could not possibly pay for. I don't generally use it to mean if I bought this I would be late paying the electric bill. So, for example, there are a couple of colleges I would have liked DD to attend, but there would be no way at all for us to send her to them except through a crushing amount of debt - and that would only address one child's education. So that - we can't afford.

 

But many things that I would say, "I'm not paying for that" or some similar version is a choice. For instance, I am nursing along an ancient van because I do not wish to have a new car loan. But if it became immediately necessary, we could get a new car. Thus I feel it wouldn't be quite right to say I can't afford a new car. I could. But I prefer to put off that purchase for now.

[Guest]

Earning a good salary has little to do with what people can afford.

 

We know a lot of young people, graduate students. They don't make a lot of money, surely not as much as my husband does. They seem to do things that we might say we can't afford (travel, eating out a lot, newer cars). How can that be? My husband makes a lot more than a waiter and a nanny combined.

 

But they live in small apartments with low rent. We live in a house with a high mortgage because of home values at the time we bought (not because we bought a huge house in a tony neighborhood). We have a kid who had high medical needs for a few years, some of which was not covered by insurance.

 

So they fly back home to the west coast twice a year while we do not. Etc.

 

I never look at someone's salary and think they should be able to afford something they say they can't. For one thing, it's none of my business. But also, I just don't necessarily have all the information to make that judgment.

Yes, I agree. There is no way to speculate on what others do with their money unless you are their financial planner and know exactly all their sources of income as well as all their obligations. I know some people who live very posh and I do sometimes wonder how they can spend like they do (both in terms of dollar amounts and what seems to me the frivolity of the choices) but in the end, it's not my circus or my ponies, so I just shrug and assume I would choose differently.

[Guest]

How about just "No." 

 

Just because I/we can afford things doesn't mean we are willing to buy them.

 

I can afford to buy 100 pounds of candy at the store each week. However, I am not willing to buy it. Indeed, by dd13 asked me to pick up a TWO POUND bag of candy at the grocery today, and I said, nope. She said, "I'll pay,"  I said, "Nope. You eat too much sweets." If her sibling drives her to the store and she spends her money on candy, I'm not going to throw it away, but I'm not helping her buy it (in bulk!). 

 

We could afford most things our kids could want. We choose not to buy them. I think a simple, "No." is really nice. I think we underuse it and overexplain. When I do explain, I tend towards non-money explanations since, in fact, the vast majority of things they'd like I could pay for if I wanted to, but I choose other things instead. "I think it's a waste of money." "You have plenty of jeans." "I'd rather spend our money on a vacation." "Put it on your Christmas list," are a few favorites. My kids are teens now and have pretty much learned not to ask me to pay for stupid stuff. They get a little spending money, and they can easily earn more if they're willing to do chores for me. They have a pretty good idea of the stuff I consider routine expenses and freely ask me for things like that (groceries, school related items or routine activities, basic clothes and grooming), and beyond that, they might ask, but if I say no, they don't push for an explanation and just decide if it's worth it to THEM to earn the money to pay for it (from me, easy chores). Makes my life easier.

 

I was thinking this too, and we do have a serious can't-stray-from-it budget.

 

No.

 

I will say "we can't afford it" or "we don't have enough money for that" when that is the case. Anyone whose known us for five minutes or more knows that most of our "discretionary income" goes toward food (ingredients). They'd also be aware of how insane DH and I think it is that whole, real food out of the ground is even thought of as a luxury item, but I digress.. Certainly, our children are aware.

 

I do occasionally initiate conversations with my kids about exagerating to make a point, using words that describe real problems that real people have have. "I'm starving." "I'm going crazy." etc... BUT! I don't see this as a moral issue and I don't correct anyone about it, and Lord knows I do it myself. I just think it's a good idea to understand the deeper levels of the surface things we say.

 

IRL, ff the internet, I really don't overthink any of this. I is who I is and everyone else is too. If they aren't too obnoxious for my sensibilities, I just accept them as they are.

[Guest]

There is a word for that!

 

Thoil.  I love this word.

 

http://www.miss-thrifty.co.uk/2009/04/01/thoil/

 

Here in Yorkshire, United Kingdom, people have a reputation for being very friendly – but very tight with their money. I thought it was an unfair stereotype, until I saw a chap at the deli counter in Sainsburys, sucking air through his teeth and asking the wearied sales assistant to “do him a price†on a slice of ham. On the bright side, the beer here is very cheap.

Recently I was reading the Yorkshire Post and came across an interview with a couple of farming sisters. They spoke of something called thoil; apparently it’s an old Yorkshire word that means to be able to afford something, but to be unable to justify the expense.

As in: “I can’t thoil the flatscreen TV and the Blu-Ray DVD playerâ€.

I’d never heard it before, so I looked it up – and it exists all right. It’s delightfully Yorkshire, isn’t it? I think it’s a wonderful word!

I like the idea behind it: the noisy sentiment that just because you have the money, you don’t have to spend the stuff all at once. And why should you?

 

That is a stupendous word!

 

[Guest]

One of my middle son's best (spending money) teaching moments didn't come from us saying, "no."  It came from us letting him spend his own spending money on a $2 or $3 toy trinket from a gift shop.  We knew it was cheaply made and wouldn't last or interest him for long and we mentioned that, but added that he could get it if he wanted to since it was his money. He gets to choose where to spend it - again - reminding him that he could only spend it once.

 

The toy broke within an hour or two.  He's remembered the lesson ever since, occasionally even bringing it up when considering whether to buy something or not.  Cool packaging and/or instant gratification is not always worth giving up hard earned money for, but if we had said "no" I doubt the results would have been so lasting.

 

There's room for both "no" and "it's your three bucks, Bud." in the long, long, slog of raising people.

 

Plus, different kids, different needs, etc.

[poppy]

I always say (or think of it to myself as) "that's not a priority for us".

 

I honestly do not buy "We can't afford that".  You are not a passive victim to your budget. You didn't choose to set aside money for something.  I own my decisions.

We've never been to Disney.  We camp.  "We can't afford Disney" is true, given our choices, but I am a person with an iphone.  We're not exactly destitute.  I'm gonna assume anyone who has the internet access to post here frequently budgets hundreds of dollars per year on internet.  It's a priority.

 

Yes I have a special needs child who has a counselor, OT, tutor, psychiatrist out of pocket which also impacts that no-big-vacation thing. It's expensive. But I  assume most families have unpleasant expenses.    Part of life.

 

[creekland]

There's room for both "no" and "it's your three bucks, Bud." in the long, long, slog of raising people.

 

Plus, different kids, different needs, etc.

 

Totally true - and age makes a difference too.  My young lad was 11 at the time (because I remember the year of that trip and the year my guy was born - not because I remember the total specifics without math  :lol: ).

 

All that agreed to, it's also true that if parents are always making the decisions for their kids, it can backfire when the kids finally get out on their own and aren't used to self-control.  I see too much of this with young adults and their first paychecks.

 

Hubby and I have also been on field trips with kids (4th grade and older) who never got to order for themselves in a restaurant because their parents always did it for them (their statement - not our guessing).  They either opted for the most expensive meal, sometimes not even knowing what that was, or they sat there staring at the menu bewildered unable to make up their mind.

 

It's pretty important that while raising our kids we let them make decisions on their own when age appropriate - and even let them fall if we know it's "safe."  We all learn from mistakes, sometimes even better than learning from our successes. 

[creekland]

I'm gonna assume anyone who has the internet access to post here frequently budgets hundreds of dollars per year on internet.  It's a priority.

 

 Here it's a work expense.  Hubby works from home and needs the internet available anywhere, anytime.  This costs (him/us) $70 per month, but it'd be that way even if we never used it for personal reasons.

[Valley Girl]

I always say (or think of it to myself as) "that's not a priority for us".

 

I honestly do not buy "We can't afford that".  You are not a passive victim to your budget. You didn't choose to set aside money for something.  I own my decisions.

We've never been to Disney.  We camp.  "We can't afford Disney" is true, given our choices, but I am a person with an iphone.  We're not exactly destitute.  I'm gonna assume anyone who has the internet access to post here frequently budgets hundreds of dollars per year on internet.  It's a priority.

 

Yes I have a special needs child who has a counselor, OT, tutor, psychiatrist out of pocket which also impacts that no-big-vacation thing. It's expensive. But I  assume most families have unpleasant expenses.    Part of life.

 

How on earth is saying "we can't afford that" not "owning" one's decisions?

 

Regardless of how people choose to communicate it, they are making the decision to purchase or not purchase something based on a variety of personal, and quite possibly complex factors, absolutely NONE of which is anyone else's business. There's no superiority or virtue attached to one way of phrasing it over another.

 

ETA: Punctuation. (So necessary.)

Edited September 29, 2016 by Reluctant Homeschooler

[mommyto4]

"We don't have money for that."

 

And if asked further by the kids, I talk about where our money does go to and how those things are priorities.

[regentrude]

I don't get the problem. For me "I can't afford that" means "This expense is not possible for me with the way I have chosen to allocate my funds". that goes for " I cannot afford an expensive cruise, because I prioritize paying for college over it, and with this way of allocating funds, I do not have money for the other expense" or in " I cannot afford to buy myself this sweater because first my kids needs winter boots." It has nothing to do with absolute amount of money available and is a question of context.

Short of people in abject poverty who are unable to pay for their basic needs, everybody makes decisions and prioritizes. I don't know any people with unlimited funds who could pay for everything they can possibly want. Even people with good incomes will have things they cannot pay for because they have chosen other priorities.

 

Similar for "This is too expensive". Unspoken are the words "for me, with the way I have chosen to allocate my funds" or "for this kind of item". The same thing may not be expensive to another person because it is of higher priority for them, and it may be a sum that is, in absolute terms, not very high, but at the high end for the kind of item, and I may be unwilling to pay it. 

"Too expensive" does not have mean, to me, that I literally cannot afford it - but that I choose not to spend this amount on this kind of item/service at this point in time.

 

Nobody is interested in a  long winded explanation.

Edited September 29, 2016 by regentrude

[Guest]

I always say (or think of it to myself as) "that's not a priority for us".

 

I honestly do not buy "We can't afford that".  You are not a passive victim to your budget. You didn't choose to set aside money for something.  I own my decisions.

We've never been to Disney.  We camp.  "We can't afford Disney" is true, given our choices, but I am a person with an iphone.  We're not exactly destitute.  I'm gonna assume anyone who has the internet access to post here frequently budgets hundreds of dollars per year on internet.  It's a priority.

 

Yes I have a special needs child who has a counselor, OT, tutor, psychiatrist out of pocket which also impacts that no-big-vacation thing. It's expensive. But I  assume most families have unpleasant expenses.    Part of life.

 

So you have to be destitute before you can't afford something.

 

---

 

Separate from this, let's also keep in mind that irt marriages and family priorities, there are usually two people's priorities to take into consideration, under the best of circumstances. Along with that, let's bear in mind that holding the purse strings is a super way to silently, invisibly control someone.

 

My point is that a LOT of the time (more than you'd suspect, in general) "we can't afford it"=="I can't afford it b/c I don't get to make these decisions."

 

 

In any case, it's really gross to judge the financial choices of others.

 

We can take out the word gross^^ and replace it with unwise, foolish, self-centered....or replace "judge" with compare-against-my-circumstances/choices.

[marbel]

I always say (or think of it to myself as) "that's not a priority for us".

 

I honestly do not buy "We can't afford that".  You are not a passive victim to your budget. You didn't choose to set aside money for something.  I own my decisions.

We've never been to Disney.  We camp.  "We can't afford Disney" is true, given our choices, but I am a person with an iphone.  We're not exactly destitute.  I'm gonna assume anyone who has the internet access to post here frequently budgets hundreds of dollars per year on internet.  It's a priority.

 

Yes I have a special needs child who has a counselor, OT, tutor, psychiatrist out of pocket which also impacts that no-big-vacation thing. It's expensive. But I  assume most families have unpleasant expenses.    Part of life.

 

 

I think plenty of people would disagree with you on that.  It's actually rather insulting to assume that people who can't afford some things are simply "passive victims" to their budgets.   Sometimes there is simply not enough money.  

 

Internet?  At my house it's a business and educational need - the fact that I can use it for fun stuff (like arguing with strangers on the internet :-) ) is a bonus.  If we had to rely on the library and the community college for internet use, it would cost us much more in other ways (time, productivity, gas).  I guess you could say we are making the choice, but really it's the only choice that makes any economic sense.  I do see people in the public library using the computer terminals. They are occupied all day, every day, with people always waiting.  Maybe they made the choice not to pay for internet, or maybe they simply can't afford it. 

 

But I wonder if when you (general you, not necessarily poppy) hear/see "we can't afford that" you assume it's said in a whining "poor me" sort of way.   Not being able to afford everything that is desirable is just a part of life, like unpleasant expenses.   I think most people (in my experience, anyway), accept that.  I do have a relative who couldn't seem to accept that she couldn't have whatever she wanted.  She is a sad, bitter person.  

[Serenade]

 we used the phrase, "You can only spend it once, so choose wisely.  They won't give it back to you to use again."  Then we make our choices.

 

I like this!

[poppy]

I think plenty of people would disagree with you on that.  It's actually rather insulting to assume that people who can't afford some things are simply "passive victims" to their budgets.   Sometimes there is simply not enough money.  

 

Internet?  At my house it's a business and educational need - the fact that I can use it for fun stuff (like arguing with strangers on the internet :-) ) is a bonus.  If we had to rely on the library and the community college for internet use, it would cost us much more in other ways (time, productivity, gas).  I guess you could say we are making the choice, but really it's the only choice that makes any economic sense.  I do see people in the public library using the computer terminals. They are occupied all day, every day, with people always waiting.  Maybe they made the choice not to pay for internet, or maybe they simply can't afford it. 

 

But I wonder if when you (general you, not necessarily poppy) hear/see "we can't afford that" you assume it's said in a whining "poor me" sort of way.   Not being able to afford everything that is desirable is just a part of life, like unpleasant expenses.   I think most people (in my experience, anyway), accept that.  I do have a relative who couldn't seem to accept that she couldn't have whatever she wanted.  She is a sad, bitter person.  

 

I know I come across as really judge-y online.  (Can I blame my Myers Briggs on that?) But it's not how I mean to express myself.  Really I find it empowering to know I am making decisions about my budget and that I do not spend money on items that are not as important to me. 

 

I have been up and down financially but never poor, in my own estimation. Right now, though, I am scraping the bottom. Longing after things. I hate my car. I just cut my own hair and did a pretty wretched job. Eating beans. That kind of thing.  But I do spend on the crucial things, and  am working on appreciating what I have, knowing it is what I chose to prioritize. Priorities for us. Curriculum.  Fitness.  Make sense?