AAR question

[busymama7]

I thought they had a forum but I couldn't find it last night so I'm asking here.

 

I used SWR for my first 5 children including two who are dylexic. Last year I switched to AAR for my now 8 and 6 year olds because I could tell the 8 year old was dylexic also and I wanted something new to keep my interest up. Yep that was the primary reason 😂

 

I love the program. I really do. It is everything I could want except one thing. The introduction of the phonograms is crazy slow. My older one is on lesson 38 of level 2 and he still only knows at most 40? Of them. With SWR, all but the most advanced are taught right away, within a few weeks of K or 1st. This means that my son can't even attempt to read anything that is not the readers that go along with it because so many of the needed phonograms have not been taught yet. I mean things like EA, OY, OW etc. My 6 year old would take off and read everything if she knew al those but she only at the end of level one.

 

I am tempted to just get out my SWR flash cards and drill them so they know them and I can point them out in other reading. They read a scripture verse daily and today one had the word head and my husband was kinda surprised he didn't have the knowledge to sound that out. Because EA hasn't been taught yet.

 

With the rest of my kids we used the pathway readers and loved them. Because they knew pretty much all the phonograms when we started we would just break down unfamiliar words as we came to them. I am frustrated that I can't do that with these two.

 

Should I do that? Just teach them to read the rest of the phonograms or is there a reason not to? I am ok with the speed of AAR otherwise. My son needs all the practice. But is like to give him the skills to read other words if there isn't a compelling reason why not to.

 

Thanks!

[ReadingMama1214]

I'm wondering though, if you did tbe SWR phonograms, what would be the point of AAR? I haven't used AAR past the Pre-Reading level.

 

We use Ordinary Parents Guide and they also introduce phonograms slowly and do not introduce every sound at the same time. We are on lesson 105 (out of 231) in OPG and Dd knows 51/70 phonograms in SWR

 

What I have done, is introduce new phonograms if she comes across them in reading. Only casually such as oh here oy says (blank)" and then move on.

 

You can find other phonics readers as well. We've had good luck with Elephant and Piggie books, bob books, old school style phonics readers, and Nora Gaydos readers.

Edited September 28, 2016 by ReadingMama1214

[busymama7]

I'm wondering though, if you did tbe SWR phonograms, what would be the point of AAR? I haven't used AAR past the Pre-Reading level.

 

We use Ordinary Parents Guide and they also introduce phonograms slowly and do not introduce every sound at the same time. We are on lesson 105 (out of 231) in OPG and Dd knows 51/70 phonograms in SWR

 

What I have done, is introduce new phonograms if she comes across them in reading. Only casually such as oh here oy says (blank)" and then move on.

 

You can find other phonics readers as well. We've had good luck with Elephant and Piggie books, bob books, old school style phonics readers, and Nora Gaydos readers.

Because he's dylexic and introducing things casually doesn't work. They need systematic direct instruction over and over and over again 😉 AAR works well for that but I'm annoyed at how long it's taking to teach the phonograms. I want to teach them to read them all or mostly all and then work with them more slowly and methodically with AAR and AAS. But at least they would be able to do some figuring out of simple words that use the other phonograms while we slowly work through AAR.

[lexi]

I'm using AAR. It does introduce the phonograms slowly and then work with them one at a time.

My son needs that. If I try to introduce a bunch to him before teaching through them slowly he gets overwhelmed. This leads to him panicking when he sees a word and guessing rather than sounding it out.

For my daughter the program does feel a little slow. If she's reading a book then I do casually introduce phonograms that she comes across. Some of them do stick with her. So I just move her through the program more quickly.

I have no real suggestions. Just agreeing with you that it can feel slow. But my son would probably not learn any other way. So we plod forward. And I feel like I'm dying a slow and painful death.

Yay for reading! It's my least favorite thing to teach! Blech!

[ReadingMama1214]

Because he's dylexic and introducing things casually doesn't work. They need systematic direct instruction over and over and over again 😉 AAR works well for that but I'm annoyed at how long it's taking to teach the phonograms. I want to teach them to read them all or mostly all and then work with them more slowly and methodically with AAR and AAS. But at least they would be able to do some figuring out of simple words that use the other phonograms while we slowly work through AAR.

Sorry! I wasn't sure if the 6 year old was as well.

 

Could you do the flash cards and then buddy read simple books to help them practice them? We buddy read a lot and it seems to help Dd not feel overwhelmed.

 

I've also seen so many fun games for learning phonograms.

[busymama7]

Sorry! I wasn't sure if the 6 year old was as well.

 

Could you do the flash cards and then buddy read simple books to help them practice them? We buddy read a lot and it seems to help Dd not feel overwhelmed.

 

I've also seen so many fun games for learning phonograms.

The 6 year old is not but since she hasn't even been taught so many of the phonograms she really can't progress with reading either.

 

I think I've talked myself into just doing the SWR cards with them. AAR is just taking too long especially for the 6 year old who doesn't really need it. I'm still going to use it to be sure everything is covered but it is just so slow going (darn fluency pages!!! 😂 I see the value in them but they slow us down a lot)

 

The thing is they really aren't capable of reading early readers or simple books for practice because they don't know high frequency simple phonograms yet. I know how to teach them to them. I'm not worried about that part. It was just whether I should trust the system as laid out or just do my own thing with the phonograms to speed them up a bit.

 

Thanks!

Edited September 29, 2016 by busymama7

[MerryAtHope]

Should I do that? Just teach them to read the rest of the phonograms or is there a reason not to? I am ok with the speed of AAR otherwise. My son needs all the practice. But is like to give him the skills to read other words if there isn't a compelling reason why not to.

 

This is one of those things that's going to be pretty individual--some kids are fine with it and some kids start confusing the phonograms. Has he played around with the Phonogram Sounds App at all? He could probably learn them pretty painlessly that way.

 

It does get a bit easier to read outside books when they are in AAR 3 and have a bit more proficiency.  Remember though, that reading isn't a race, and a solid foundation is more important, especially for a student with dyslexia or other reading struggles. And, even though he doesn't have the phonogram knowledge to sound out some words like head, he's also gaining the ability to sound out a lot of two and three syllable words. It's a trade-off, but he'll get there.

Edited September 29, 2016 by MerryAtHope

[ReadingMama1214]

The 6 year old is not but since she hasn't even been taught so many of the phonograms she really can't progress with reading either.

 

I think I've talked myself into just doing the SWR cards with them. AAR is just taking too long especially for the 6 year old who doesn't really need it. I'm still going to use it to be sure everything is covered but it is just so slow going (darn fluency pages!!! 😂 I see the value in them but they slow us down a lot)

 

The thing is they really aren't capable of reading early readers or simple books for practice because they don't know high frequency simple phonograms yet. I know how to teach them to them. I'm not worried about that part. It was just whether I should trust the system as laid out or just do my own thing with the phonograms to speed them up a bit.

 

Thanks!

I feel your pain! My daughter is almost half way through our phonics program which supposedly goes to a 4th grade level and she still can't read level 1 early readers because they're so sight word heavy.

 

I don't see why you shouldn't introduce the phonogram cards. Especially with your 6yo. I'd just adjust my pace as needed. AAR is a great program, but I could understand your frustration.

[busymama7]

This is one of those things that's going to be pretty individual--some kids are fine with it and some kids start confusing the phonograms. Has he played around with the Phonogram Sounds App at all? He could probably learn them pretty painlessly that way.

 

It does get a bit easier to read outside books when they are in AAR 3 and have a bit more proficiency. Remember though, that reading isn't a race, and a solid foundation is more important, especially for a student with dyslexia or other reading struggles. And, even though he doesn't have the phonogram knowledge to sound out some words like head, he's also gaining the ability to sound out a lot of two and three syllable words. It's a trade-off, but he'll get there.

He hasn't used the app much since when we started he already knew the letter sounds and so we just picked up and went with it. Speaking of which we started last August when he was 7 and 4 months. We are now in lesson 38 of level 2. I was really hoping it would go faster but those dang fluency pages take several days each to get through. I don't want to exhaust him and he hates them so much. So we only do a half or occasionally a full page a day and they are so long in level 2. Any tips there or is this a pretty good pace?

Edit: he is now 8 and 5 months

He read green eggs and ham with my husband tonight. I came downstairs more than halfway through it so I'm not sure how my husband handled words with unknown phonograms and such but he was reading eat and train and would/could/should at first glance by the time I got down there :). And he does not know those phonograms yet.

 

I know it's not a race but it is getting tiring and he thinks he's a bad reader. His working memory is actually good (I had one where it was NOT) and he is zipping through AAS 1 not missing a single word. I am not worried about him mixing up or not learning the phonograms so I think I'm just going to do that. He needs confidence and I want him to have the skills to read words like "eat" and "train" without guessing or using context clues. I fear that will do more harm then just memorizing the phonograms he needs.

 

I think he just thinks reading is too hard because he can't make sense of the words around him. Everywhere he looks are words he can't read yet. But with my other kids we could always point out the phonograms or talk about the rules. He's been working so hard at this for so long and still he can't read simple books, you know? I won't give up working through AAR because I know he needs it. But I'm going to teach him the other phonograms. Like yesterday. :)

Edited September 29, 2016 by busymama7

[busymama7]

I feel your pain! My daughter is almost half way through our phonics program which supposedly goes to a 4th grade level and she still can't read level 1 early readers because they're so sight word heavy.

 

I don't see why you shouldn't introduce the phonogram cards. Especially with your 6yo. I'd just adjust my pace as needed. AAR is a great program, but I could understand your frustration.

Yeah. Who writes those things?!? I keep picking them up thinking they can read them and I'm like this is step 1? What?

 

Other than dr Seuss which was a success tonight and we also had success with a story from pathway reader primer today (he was so excited. Said the story was much easier than his reading lessons!😉). Does anyone else have suggestions of books/readers to use for practice at this level. Yes we read the readers with AAR but I'm looking for others.

Edited September 29, 2016 by busymama7

[ReadingMama1214]

Yeah. Who writes those things?!? I keep picking them up thinking they can read them and I'm like this is step 1? What?

 

Other than dr Seuss which was a success tonight and we also had success with a story from pathway reader primer today (he was so excited. Said the story was much easier than his reading lessons!😉). Does anyone else have suggestions of books/readers to use for practice at this level. Yes we read the readers with AAR but I'm looking for others.

You should try Elephant and Piggie and Fly Guy. I hate Fly guy simply because the entire concept of a fly grosses me out, but Mo willems writes Elephant and Piggie and they're fantastic. There may be words you need to help with, but my daughter can read those with a little help. They're real books and they're funny.

 

My daughter just started calling herself a reader. We've been doing lessons for almost a year.

 

It took being able to read fluently for her to feel confident.

 

If you think the phonograms will help your boys get there, I say go for it. Our program doesn't explicitly do phonograms, but we do review all of the phonograms she's gone through. I've done bingo with them and other games. It really helps to have those fluent I find.

[Jess4879]

I'm using AAR. It does introduce the phonograms slowly and then work with them one at a time.

My son needs that. If I try to introduce a bunch to him before teaching through them slowly he gets overwhelmed. This leads to him panicking when he sees a word and guessing rather than sounding it out.

For my daughter the program does feel a little slow. If she's reading a book then I do casually introduce phonograms that she comes across. Some of them do stick with her. So I just move her through the program more quickly.

I have no real suggestions. Just agreeing with you that it can feel slow. But my son would probably not learn any other way. So we plod forward. And I feel like I'm dying a slow and painful death.

Yay for reading! It's my least favorite thing to teach! Blech!

 

This.  Exactly.

 

I also not only have him read the sounds from the flashcards, but I dictate and have him write the sounds. This really makes them stick! 

[MerryAtHope]

He hasn't used the app much since when we started he already knew the letter sounds and so we just picked up and went with it. Speaking of which we started last August when he was 7 and 4 months. We are now in lesson 38 of level 2. I was really hoping it would go faster but those dang fluency pages take several days each to get through. I don't want to exhaust him and he hates them so much. So we only do a half or occasionally a full page a day and they are so long in level 2. Any tips there or is this a pretty good pace?

 

If you're doing AAR daily for about 20 minutes, then it's probably the right pace for him. The fluency pages are the hardest reading for many kids--harder than word cards (where you only have to look at one word at a time) and harder than readers (where context clues can sometimes help kids who have strong comprehension skills). 

 

Do you practice the words cards for a few minutes each day? Helping him to get fluent on the individual cards can make the fluency pages easier. Some kids also benefit from extra tile demonstrations before getting to the fluency pages.

 

Some articles with review ideas to make the pages and cards more enjoyable (some good ideas in the comment sections too):

 

5 Tips for Fluency Practice Pages 

8 Great Ways to Review Reading Word Cards

 

HTH some!

[Meadowlark]

Hmm, I've never thought about this and I've used AAR 1-4 with two kids and just started AAR 1 with another.

 

I never felt like the introduction was too slow, but then again I've not used anything else.

 

I do know what you mean by they can't just pick up a book. You know those early reader books at the library? I don't like to even use those because it's frustrating to them when it's supposed to be "easy" but they can't read it.

 

BUT-I will say that I really like that about the program. I've always gone at whatever pace my kids could handle, and we read those stories in the reader like nobody's business. I like that the stories are constantly reviewing what they have learned, and we read them over and over again. Having said that, after using 1-4, my boys are very, very good readers. Last year my 3rd grader scored 99 on reading on the ITBS (he finished level 4 in 2nd grade and then I just had him read read read). So, I have complete confidence in the program. I think if you stick it out, you'll be happy with it.