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Another Question About How Much Parental Involvement


goldberry
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DD is going to pursue either a math or science degree with a secondary education qualification.  We've narrowed down to about four schools.  Two of the schools have a specific track for those degrees including the secondary education. Those schools have a checklist and recommended 4-year plan.   Two of the schools don't have a specific track, it is just the degree plus the add on education credits.  For the two that don't, it's very unclear how many credits will be required total and how to get that done in four years, although the website says it can be done.  

 

I'm thinking that meeting with someone at the school to get more specific details is the best option. (Both schools are in state, it would be a day trip.)  Is this kind of meeting something I need to have DD go to alone?  This is all still very confusing to her, and I would like to be able to assist with question asking rather than just prepping her beforehand.  Or is that totally "not done"?

 

Also, should she meet with a general advisor or someone from the education department?

 

(Side note, I have always spelled "advisor" with an o, which I thought is an accepted spelling, but it keeps flagging me..  :glare:  Apparently the e "adviser" is preferred now. )

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She should meet with the academic advisor of the department in which she plans to major. Not with somebody in admissions.Possibly with the academic department and the education department as well, if that is how the school is organized. the fat that the info is not readily available online would be a red flag for me.

 

 

With a high school student who is selecting schools, it is entirely appropriate for parents to come along. The student should be the one to ask most questions; the parent should stay in the background - but it is normal that parents come on the college visit.

Edited by regentrude
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Well, here is an example of what I'm finding.  School A has under biology the different tracks for biology, including one track that says "Biology Secondary Education" with all the requirements and a plan listed.  School B has no track like that under Biology.  So you actually go one of the regular tracks and then add secondary education.  DD is actually very interested in the molecular, cellular, developmental track, and this school has that.   Under the Education-Teacher Licensure section it lists Biology-MCDB as one of the qualifying degrees that if you declare that major, you can complete the major plus licensure requirements in 4 years.  This particular college has more of a selection of degrees that qualify.  Then it lists education classes required, which is about 35 credits.

 

I can get the biology-mcdb plan, and then get the education credits, but it doesn't look to me like that could all be finished in four years.  So there has to be some overlapping that I'm not able to determine for myself.

 

ETA, this is important, because DD really wants to be done in four years, and if this school does not offer a reasonable plan for that, it would take the school off the table.

 

(sorry for my random capitalizing/not capitalizing biology.. I can't make up my mind!)

Edited by goldberry
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Let her do it. You can always proof read and advise.

If the student has the communication then the positive benefits of seeming engaged and interested go to the student.

 

I ask myself if what I'm doing would be normally done by a parent or normally done by a guidance counselor. If neither then it is a student task.

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I'm having her do a lot, but if you saw my thread on Evil Pre-Calc Professor, she's under stress right now and close to a melt down.  I am trying to balance "you are a young adult now!" with "come here poor baby, let me make you some tea..."

 

I'm sure I'm going wrong one way or another, but trying anyway!
 

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If finishing in four years is her goal, I would say "yes" to your suggestion of also meeting with an advisor in the education department. It's not just the education credits, it's also knowing how the school helps you handle getting your teaching license in hand when you graduate and how long any additional hoops associated with that take to complete.

 

Based on my experience, it could be tough finishing in four years, especially if the education credits include a semester of student teaching. At the university I attended, I registered for that semester at 12 credits (minimum for full-time), but could not take any additional classes while student teaching, which was full-time off-campus. Even with full to the max loads other semesters and a couple summer classes, it took me 4 1/2 years. Mine was also a secondary ed with science degree.

 

Not sure if the school would connect you with a recent grad (perhaps through email), but their take on it would also be valuable.

 

Erica in OR

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Based on my experience, it could be tough finishing in four years, especially if the education credits include a semester of student teaching. 

 

Yes it does include that, and yes, it looks tough.  It looks a bit easier at some of the schools that seem to offer the combined track rather than just the degree plus the add-on.  Of course the school DD likes the best is the one with the more complicated program.

 

 

Can I ask how long ago it was that you got your degree?

Edited by goldberry
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DD is going to pursue either a math or science degree with a secondary education qualification.  

 

I have a question... does she have a particular reason for wanting to get her teaching qualification as an undergraduate?  At least around here, teachers aren't paid much (or hired much) without a Master's degree, and it's pretty much expected that everyone get something like 30 hours more after a Master's.   So, if she needs one anyway, why not pursue math or science as an undergraduate, and then just get her Masters in Education?  There are places that offer one-year programs.   This is what my db did - he majored in Anthropology undergrad, then did a one-year Master's in Science Education, and got a job right out of school as a high school Biology teacher (and then went back while already working to get the extra credit hours).

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Yes it does include that, and yes, it looks tough. It looks a bit easier at some of the schools that seem to offer the combined track rather than just the degree plus the add-on. Of course the school DD likes the best is the one with the more complicated program.

 

 

Can I ask how long ago it was that you got your degree?

'95, so the advice may have aged. :)

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She should meet with the academic advisor of the department in which she plans to major. Not with somebody in admissions.Possibly with the academic department and the education department as well, if that is how the school is organized. the fat that the info is not readily available online would be a red flag for me.

 

 

With a high school student who is selecting schools, it is entirely appropriate for parents to come along. The student should be the one to ask most questions; the parent should stay in the background - but it is normal that parents come on the college visit.

Agreed. And I go one further, as parent who is putting a lot of money into this, I ask departments a lot of questions such as how many appointments per week are available for academic advising,how many departmental advisers are there, what is the communication plan for the students assigned to each department.

 

Solid answers from WMU's Deb S, sealed the deal for us once ds had it down to three schools from the original six he was admitted to, and the almost went there school had a big, big ding against them when it became clear that students were pretty much on their own in that department as answers were totally non committal, office hours terribly limited, and the go to response "a lot of the students in our department take five years to graduate" - the reasons given for that last one being mostly "they have a hard time fitting it all in" without any specific on WHY despite the number of credits required to graduate being very standard.

 

Five years for our eldest to graduate? Fine. He is in the English Honors program and will have his Master's at the end of five at the lower undergraduate tuition rate. But without reasonable explantion, I am not impressed.

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I have a question... does she have a particular reason for wanting to get her teaching qualification as an undergraduate?  At least around here, teachers aren't paid much (or hired much) without a Master's degree, and it's pretty much expected that everyone get something like 30 hours more after a Master's.   So, if she needs one anyway, why not pursue math or science as an undergraduate, and then just get her Masters in Education?  There are places that offer one-year programs.   This is what my db did - he majored in Anthropology undergrad, then did a one-year Master's in Science Education, and got a job right out of school as a high school Biology teacher (and then went back while already working to get the extra credit hours).

 

Because she is 17.  :glare:   She has it in her head that she can't stand the idea of any more than four years of school looking ahead. In this state, it actually is most common for teachers to start with a bachelors and then get their masters while they are already teaching.  That's her plan right now.  

 

I was talking to her last night about the probability of needing an extra semester to finish her student teaching.  "That's not a big deal."  Okay... But you can't take just one extra year to get your masters instead, and be done with it?

 

So no, it's not reasonable really.  I'm just trying to work with what we've got.

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Around here, a bachelors is enough to get hired as a teacher.  In fact, many districts prefer it because they are cheaper.  But still, high school math and science teachers are paid pretty well.  Getting a masters while teaching does get a pay boost.  It would be harder to get a teaching position right out of school with a masters. 

 

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