Evil Pre-Calc Teacher Ruining DDs Grades

[goldberry]

Okay... so I'm not "that parent"!  I promise!

 

DD is taking dual enrollment this year through a charter school.  Her PreCalc teacher is from the college but teaching on the charter school campus.  At the very beginning, she told me he was rude to students in the class and yelled at people.  Once they were working in groups, and the group was afraid to go ask him a question.  Finally she went up and asked, and in front of the class he started yelling "that's a stupid mistake for you to make, how could you guys be that stupid..." etc.  That's just an example.

 

DD has been a straight A math student, she got a high A in College Algebra last year taken on the college campus.  Her SAT math section was 750.  She loves math and is most likely going to pursue a math-teaching degree.

 

Her first several assignments in this pre-calc class got Bs and Cs.  One assignment she showed me, all the answers were correct but he gave her a C for "formatting".

 

Other students in the class have all said they are having the same experience.  After the "stupid" incident, she went through the process to talk to the school principal.  The principal assured her that the process was anonymous, and told her that hers was not the first complaint about this teacher, and that they would be following up.  That was about two weeks ago.

 

Her last 3 assignments she got returned today she failed.  She went to him to ask for a meeting, which she has asked before and been refused.  Again today, he refused, and said if you want to improve just get a tutor.

 

This is her senior year, and she is considering a math major at college.  A failing grade or even a C will have a very bad impact on her transcript and her scholarship possibilities.   

 

Not sure what to do at this point, since it has already been addressed to the principal?  Any ideas?

 

Edited to clarify, teacher is from the local college but teaching on the charter school campus.

Edited September 26, 2016 by goldberry

[SKL]

Wow, I wonder if she should just drop the class?

 

My sister had a similar experience in higher math.  Teacher said one thing too many, my sister marched down to the office and withdrew.  Teacher tried to talk her out of it.  It was regrettable, but that is one way to get the administration's attention.

 

I hope she saved all her papers so she can prove that she knows her stuff.

 

Maybe if they remove this teacher and sub in another one, she could rejoin?

 

ETA:  I should add that my sister's teacher had an issue with girls in math.  So the boys may not be getting treated as unfairly as your daughter, if that's his problem.

Edited September 26, 2016 by SKL

[Tanaqui]

I'd definitely document the heck out of it and encourage the entire class to go to the principal. 20+ students are unlikely to be just holding a silly grudge.

 

Edit: And if this teacher is affiliated with the college, maybe it makes sense to go to them as well?

Edited September 26, 2016 by Tanaqui

[maize]

Can she switch classes or just withdraw altogether?

[goldberry]

Wow, I wonder if she should just drop the class?

 

My sister had a similar experience in higher math.  Teacher said one thing too many, my sister marched down to the office and withdrew.  Teacher tried to talk her out of it.  It was regrettable, but that is one way to get the administration's attention.

 

I hope she saved all her papers so she can prove that she knows her stuff.

 

Maybe if they remove this teacher and sub in another one, she could rejoin?

 

It's too late to drop without it showing up on her record.  This is technically a college course.

[SkateLeft]

Honestly, I'd advise her to drop the class.

 

An instructor who refuses to allow a student to make an appointment isn't worth the trouble. The rest of the issues, like making sure she's using the format he expects, can be worked around. That's just part of the college experience. If he's not willing to meet with her in office hours, that's not a good thing. She can't win this one and trying to go over his head just might make things worse. The school would be scrambling to find a replacement at this point in the year, so they probably won't do much.

 

 

 

[SKL]

It's too late to drop without it showing up on her record.  This is technically a college course.

 

What if she transferred into a calculus class instead?

 

I think I would drop it even if it showed on my record.  She has enough credibility to say that the teacher was just awful and she needed to take a more appropriate class with a good teacher.

[goldberry]

Oh, also he won't return test papers.  He says that's a college policy?  He lets them look at the test for about 5 minutes then collects them.  So she asked for a meeting with him where she could review it and he could explain what he marked.  He refused, and again told her to just get a tutor.

Edited September 26, 2016 by goldberry

[SkateLeft]

It's too late to drop without it showing up on her record.  This is technically a college course.

 

If she can withdraw and get a "W" on her transcript, that looks much better than a D or F. Is she past the withdrawal deadline?

[SKL]

Oh, also he won't return test papers.  He says that's a college policy?  He lets them look at the test for about 5 minutes then collects them.  So she asked for a meeting with him where she could review it and he could explain what he marked.  He refused, and again told her to just get a tutor.

 

Nope.  This is really extremely terrible.  Can she file a grievance at college?

 

[Guest]

Drop. Do the class online, the take calc in the spring with a different provider. And make the school refund you - they promised a competent provider.

 

If you dont want to drop, drop the college credit portion and take only high school credit.

[regentrude]

I recommend dropping the class, even if it shows up on her records. Any resolution will take way longer than she has time.

Take the "W". If asked, she can explain the situation. Students drop courses all the time for a variety of reasons. Her strong test scores show clearly that she did not drop because she could not hack the math.

 

She should also submit a written complaint to the principal and to the professor's department chair at the college.

 

And leave a well written, factual, but devastating review on rate my professors. (The style of writing is important so she does not come across as a disgruntled student who failed because he was unprepared; you can usually tell from the word choices and grammar whether that is the case.)

 

Being a jerk is one thing. Not returning exams can very well be college policy; many colleges reuse exams and do not return the papers to the students. But refusing the request for an appointment is completely unacceptable and not within any policies of any colleges.

 

And this is one of the instances where I would be "that" parent. *I* would complain to the school. They have no business having a prof teach who behaves in such an unprofessional manner.

Edited September 26, 2016 by regentrude

[maize]

If she can withdraw and get a "W" on her transcript, that looks much better than a D or F. Is she past the withdrawal deadline?

This. Take the W, then take the class again next semester with a different professor.

[ScoutTN]

I'd drop it and complete an online course instead.

[HomeAgain]

Sounds like a lazy teacher.  I'd be willing to bet he reuses the exams year after year, and doesn't want students getting copies.

 

File a grievance at both schools.  I'd be down there in a heartbeat showing my kid the steps needed to advocate for herself (and being the menacing parent in the background as the principal and college tried to play down the problems).

[Pawz4me]

You (she) have my sympathy. Or I guess empathy.

 

DS17 is going through pretty much the same thing with his CC calculus class. The teacher has a horrible reputation but is the only one who teaches that level class. The people at the campus tutor center haven't been helpful -- they say they can't figure out what/how he's teaching. DS is far (far) from the only student in the class who is struggling. Thankfully he still has plenty of time to drop the class and he doesn't need it to earn his AS or to get his high school diploma.

[Rebel Yell]

Oh, also he won't return test papers. He says that's a college policy? He lets them look at the test for about 5 minutes then collects them. So she asked for a meeting with him where she could review it and he could explain what he marked. He refused, and again told her to just get a tutor.

Can she snap a photo of her test before it is taken back? And has anybody verified that it is actually policy?

[regentrude]

Can she snap a photo of her test before it is taken back? And has anybody verified that it is actually policy?

 

That may be very dicey. Many colleges have such policies, and there could be sanctions in place for students who do that.

[goldberry]

I don't have a problem with them not keeping the tests, but she should be able to review it enough to understand what was wrong.

[goldberry]

Up until now, DD has been handling it on her own.  Would it be appropriate for me to request a meeting with this guy and with DD?  (with me there also I mean)

Edited September 26, 2016 by goldberry

[gardenmom5]

1dd had a pre-cal teacher like this.  (I had a math teacher not much better.).   it's a sign they are insecure about their teaching ability. they're not very good, and they know it.  (they're in the wrong job.)  dd kept her head down and never said anything in class.  even the day he came up to her and asked her how he could be a better teacher (or something like that.)  she refused to answer.   (he was on his "7th career" at 35.  get a clue.)

 

I called the school by beginning of october to complain (coincidentally - dd's school counselor was a family friend) - by then they'd had so many complaints about him - that if they could have fired him (union) and had a replacement, they would have.

 

she would write down the assignment, completely ignore him during class.  then go home, read the book and do the assignment.

 

eta: an option (that won't give credit, but could help her learn the subject so she can do well on assignments and tests.  and not have to ask the uptight teacher a calculus question he can't seem to handle.) that ds did, was khan academy.  it was free online.  he didn't take calc. in high school, but needed to test into it last year. it started him where his skills were, and he not only tested into calc, but was able to see where he had previously made mistakes without anyone telling him.  (he's now on his 5/5 quarter of calc.  and having fun.)

Edited September 26, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Epicurean]

Some professors keep tests so they don't have to make new tests every semester (if they let students keep tests they could be used to cheat in subsequent semesters). It's lazy imho.

 

My dh teaches pre-calc. I told him about this and he is appalled. But it would be hard to actually do anything if the guy is a tenured professor. I agree she should take the W and retake the class next semester. Maybe at a community college instead.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Epicurean

[regentrude]

Up until now, DD has been handling it on her own.  Would it be appropriate for me to request a meeting with this guy and with DD?  (with me there also I mean)

 

NO NO NO.

If anything, request a meeting with the principal. But not with the instructor. It won't help, and your DD will have to suffer because he obviously is a jerk.

[SKL]

I don't know if it would do you any good to meet with the guy.  I agree with Regentrude, this is time sensitive and even if you get some of what you want, I doubt she'll get an A from this guy at this point.

[Epicurean]

I can't see a resolution at this point, even with the principal, unless you think he might be able to erase the class from her records. She is NOT going to pass this class if she stays.

[EKS]

I'd withdraw.

 

My son withdrew (and got a W on his transcript) from Calc III when he was dual enrolled at the local CC.  The alternative was going to be a D or worse.  It didn't have a negative effect on college admissions.

 

(I'd also like to say that I commiserate--my son also has an evil precalc teacher.  He belittles students when they ask questions, does not actually teach the material, goes "off book" so that they can't even use the textbook to help themselves learn, when asked about this says that students should "google" anything they don't understand, makes worksheets that have one problem of each type on them so that when the student has trouble solving one, there are no additional problems to practice with, and doesn't give back tests.  He even took off points for my son not saying "x=" in an answer!  He has been at the school for 10 years, and everybody I've talked to who has dealt with him says he's horrible.  Ugh.)   

[Aura]

I'm in the drop the class camp. Take the W, it will be better than the lower grade, and it will have more impact with the administration.

[FaithManor]

I recommend dropping the class, even if it shows up on her records. Any resolution will take way longer than she has time.

Take the "W". If asked, she can explain the situation. Students drop courses all the time for a variety of reasons. Her strong test scores show clearly that she did not drop because she could not hack the math.

 

She should also submit a written complaint to the principal and to the professor's department chair at the college.

 

And leave a well written, factual, but devastating review on rate my professors. (The style of writing is important so she does not come across as a disgruntled student who failed because he was unprepared; you can usually tell from the word choices and grammar whether that is the case.)

 

Being a jerk is one thing. Not returning exams can very well be college policy; many colleges reuse exams and do not return the papers to the students. But refusing the request for an appointment is completely unacceptable and not within any policies of any colleges.

 

And this is one of the instances where I would be "that" parent. *I* would complain to the school. They have no business having a prof teach who behaves in such an unprofessional manner.

I agree with all of this. It is what I would do, and yest this would the time that I play "that parent" and go off on the principal about it. I would also have dd, before she drops the class, turn her cell phone on and record the insults he is hurling at the class for the principal to hear. It is one of the only times I would recommend anyone tape a professor.

 

If she drops this semester, she could still take a pre-calc class next semester through a different source. 

[kiana]

Drop. Get out. This guy is a jackass. If she wants to get caught up for calculus as a senior, she can take precalculus somewhere in summer session. 

[EmseB]

Before dropping I would go back to the principal with a timeline/documentation about the refusal to meet.  How can a prof not have office hours or make appointments?  That's insane.

 

And yes, my thought was to record, with audio at least, what is happening in class.  You don't have to post it to YouTube, but the principal needs to know about it.

[Corraleno]

I would definitely withdraw. At least a W won't affect her GPA. Could she finish precalc on her own this semester and then try to test into calc in the spring with a different teacher? 

[City Mouse]

If this is a college class that is being taught at the high school there isn't much the principal can do about the instructor.

You might try having the student complain to the college that employers the instructor.

 

At this point the only real option is to drop the class. It is very unlikely that the college will do anything mid semester. The kids need to get the word out though. If the kids refuse to take courses with this instructor, then either the college will assign a different instructor or the class will not be offered.

 

That happened at my DDs school. Several of the kids took an DE biology class from one instructor and made sure all of their friend knew not to take that person's class the following semester.

[Annie G]

I'd request a meeting with the instructor AND the principal, with both you and dd attending. If you just meet with the principal, he'll have to go back and talk to the instructor and that gives the instructor the chance to say your dd didn't do certain things. (Or otherwise put the blame on dd). But if you have it together, it'll become really clear whether this situation can be salvaged or not. 

 

I'd have the meeting so you can make it known what has been going on. But then probably expect to take the W and move on. It's not a huge deal to have a W on the transcript. 

[Guest]

If this is a college class that is being taught at the high school there isn't much the principal can do about the instructor.

You might try having the student complain to the college that employers the instructor.

 

At this point the only real option is to drop the class. It is very unlikely that the college will do anything mid semester. The kids need to get the word out though. If the kids refuse to take courses with this instructor, then either the college will assign a different instructor or the class will not be offered.

 

That happened at my DDs school. Several of the kids took an DE biology class from one instructor and made sure all of their friend knew not to take that person's class the following semester.

Similar here...the second semester, the instructor kept remarking how odd it was that so few were taking the course for college credit.The parents refused to pay for it, and tried to switch their children to another class, but there wasnt enough room. Survival strategy was to take the AP exam and use that for credit.

[SarahW]

Take the W. If colleges ask her about it she can say something like "It was a really bad situation and I realized that I needed something different to properly learn Pre-Calc."

 

Knowing when to get yourself out of a bad situation shows maturity.

 

She should then find some other way to take Pre-Calc (and hopefully get an excellent grade). Or some other way to show mastery of the math. The W may not disappear, but it would become largely irrelevant.

[Twigs]

Another thought. If you decide to meet with the principle, ask to be able to review the exams yourself to see if she legitimately missed problems or if the instructor was still playing games.

 

Best wishes.

[gardenmom5]

one other thing to keep in mind - she needs to learn how to handle this type of situation in a constructive manner - because, sadly, she's going to meet people, have co-workers or even bosses who are just as big of jerks.  hopefully, not too many.  (or too often.)

[goldberry]

Thanks for all the advice.  I emailed her adviser about if dropping was an option.  I think you're right, that meeting with this guy won't accomplish anything.

 

FYI, he does have office hours, he just won't meet with her.  When she has shown up, he tells her to find a tutor.  I do know a good tutor.  Depending on when the drop deadline is, I'm thinking of having her work the assignments with the tutor, to get a third party involved.  Unfortunately, she surpassed my math knowledge somewhere between Alg I and II.  One assignment clearly had all the answers marked as correct, but lots of red marks in the work part which resulted in a C.  Things like which side the x was on, that kind of thing.  But beyond that I'm not able to look at the work and know what is really going on.  

[Ali in OR]

I think your daughter has done everything I would expect her to try to do on her own. At this point with a minor child in a high school setting, I would absolutely get involved. While I would probably still drop the class as others recommend, I would meet with the principal myself to let him know this type of "instruction" is not acceptable, especially at the high school level.  Find out what other opportunities for instruction might be accepted for her transcript--an online class, self-study, etc. I would also communicate with the department head at the college where he comes from (or whoever his supervisor is) to let them know that he is not qualified to be working with high schoolers (or probably anyone, but at a minimum he shouldn't be assigned this position). 

 

On keeping tests, I'm also not a fan, but that is the practice at dd's high school also. They reuse tests and have multiple teachers teaching the same course on slightly different schedules, plus absent kids making up tests at different dates. They've had rampant cheating in the past and are pretty tight with tests now.

 

[GoodGrief]

If I'm understanding correctly, the charter school has a special arrangement with the college for this instructor to come and teach a dual enrollment class? If that is the case, I would not hesitate to meet with the principal and instructor. Though the kids are getting college credit, it sounds like a somewhat different situation than a true college course on campus, and I think different parameters for appropriate parental involvement apply.

[Ravin]

I would check with the principal about having the principal, or vice principal or the instructor's boss at the college (dean or whatever) sit in a meeting with DD and the instructor, since the instructor is refusing to do it, to go over the exams and determine what the problem is, with or without a parent present (though preferably with).

[Corraleno]

OP, one thing I would look into before meeting with the principal or instructor (or complaining about the instructor to the college) would be whether the college and/or HS records withdrawals as just a plain W or as W/P or W/F. When I was in college, withdrawals were always listed on the transcript as W/P or W/F to show whether students were passing or failing the course when they withdrew. Personally I would withdraw before speaking to anyone about the issue anyway, but if there is any possibility of the instructor listing your DD as "W/F" then I would definitely not say anything until after the grade was recorded. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Corraleno

[marbel]

If I'm understanding correctly, the charter school has a special arrangement with the college for this instructor to come and teach a dual enrollment class? If that is the case, I would not hesitate to meet with the principal and instructor. Though the kids are getting college credit, it sounds like a somewhat different situation than a true college course on campus, and I think different parameters for appropriate parental involvement apply.

 

I agree with this.  

 

I don't have any advice re: this specific problem.  But, your daughter is still in high school, right?  Both my kids have taken dual enrollment classes and the college has viewed it as completely appropriate for me to be involved in things.  They prefer the student take the lead, but they have had no problem talking to me about their registration status, disability accommodations, testing, etc.   I have never needed to get involved with an instructor, but I would if I had to and the college admin would back me up.   (I can't speak for individual instructors.)

Edited September 26, 2016 by marbel

[Terabith]

If she is getting the answers correct, how is a tutor going to help???

 

Drop. Now.

[regentrude]

One assignment clearly had all the answers marked as correct, but lots of red marks in the work part which resulted in a C.  Things like which side the x was on, that kind of thing.  

 

That alone is not an issue.

Getting a  correct answer does not mean all the reasoning is correct. The teacher also may have requirements for how the solution has to be written out. Requiring compete equations ("x=...") is perfectly reasonable; a random expression or number on the page does not constitute a valid answer to a problem that asked for x. 

But this makes it even more important that the student has the ability to review the exam and see where points have been deducted for what reason.

The red flag is the teacher refusing that opportunity - NOT that points have been deducted for work that results in a correct answer. As an instructor, I have often seen students obtain correct answers for completely the wrong reason, or without showing sufficient work, and have taken off points accordingly

Edited September 26, 2016 by regentrude

[purpleowl]

To add to those who've said this needs reporting - start getting a paper trail.

 

"Dear Evil Prof, I asked after class today if I could meet with you to discuss my recent assignments, and your response was that I should 'just get a tutor.' This is the same response you gave on the [however many] other occasions when I've asked the same question. Please confirm that I have understood correctly: You refuse to meet with me for this purpose. If I have misunderstood, when are you available to meet?"

 

Except, you know, use his name instead of "Evil Prof." ;)

[skimomma]

I agree with taking a W if that is a possibility.

 

On the matter of keeping exams, I teach at a university and I also do not return exams to keep.  Actually only the final exam.  All other work is returned.  In my case, the exam is different every year but I plant a handful of the same problems every year that I use as assessment data.  I can see if key concepts displayed in the exact same way improve (or not) when I use different methods to teach that material.  It is a common practice.  However, I have a whole day of open office hours (and additional times by appointment) for the students to come in and examine the graded test or discuss it with me for as long as they like.

[sassenach]

I would raise hell with the principal. Not your DD, but you. I'm all for kids learning how to advocate for themselves, but sometimes it takes a parent.

[regentrude]

Sounds like a lazy teacher.  I'd be willing to bet he reuses the exams year after year, and doesn't want students getting copies.

 

Or the same exam has to be given in multiple sections of the course at different times to ensure standardization. Plus some students may require makeups.

Or a portion of the test remains the same to ensure comparability between cohorts in different years.

 

Also, writing a good exam is immensely time consuming. So yes, it would be ideal if a new test were written each year, but reusing a test alone does not make an instructor "lazy". 

Edited September 26, 2016 by regentrude

[HomeAgain]

Or the same exam has to be given in multiple sections of the course at different times to ensure standardization. Plus some students may require makeups.

Or a portion of the test remains the same to ensure comparability between cohorts in different years.

 

Also, writing a good exam is immensely time consuming. So yes, it would be ideal if a new test were written each year, but reusing a test alone does not make an instructor "lazy". 

 

No, but a teacher who is unwilling to teach and refuses to acknowledge students during office hours is a pretty good candidate for the "lazy" title, along with the tests.