Wonder Weeks and baby apps

[Bluegoat]

So, since I'm getting back into the baby game, I've been paying a little more attention to the baby stuff on the parenting board I belong to.

 

It tends to be an AP dominated group which reflects the educational/financial/geographical profile of the group.  It seems like all the young moms are talking about Wonder Weeks and using aps to track their babies.  I find both these things interesting.

 

The tracking thing seems so alien to me, especially with an AP type group - when my kids were babies it seemed like AP was really trying to get away from the idea of tracking things.  I remember being a little shell-shocked with my first and might have welcomed that as a hope of creating some order, but although I'm much less AP than I used to be, I still tend to think that as an overall approach that isn't a great one.

 

I can see that for specific problems, feeding issues say, tracking with an ap would be a heck of a lot easier than on paper.  But I am not seeing any other reason I should pick it up.

 

But I am especially curious about the Wonder Weeks business - it seems ubiquitous and the impression I had was that it was "scientific".  Having looked into it, it seems that it really isn't, there is almost no scientific basis for it at all.    Have people here heard of this or any reason that it should be so widely accepted in that way?  Is it just that particular group or is common everywhere?

[maize]

I've never heard of wonder weeks.

[Guest]

What do they track? Is it like a sentimental record thing or a "oh no the baby didn't roll over at the right moment in space and time" thing? 

 

ETA: I just googled it. I rolled my eyes so hard I almost fell off my chair. That seems beyond antithetical to what I know about AP. To think that you can make a super baby or something or if you don't do XYZ you've failed your kid. Seems like another high pressure money making parent scam to me. Doesn't seem like your bag at all BlueGoat!! Run away! 

 

Then again, I have known some AP parents that if you don't sleep with your kid for 5 years, you've failed. But I always figured they were the exception and not the rule. Maybe this book fits THOSE parents.....the whole concept is a little mind boggling to me though on this Wonder Weeks thing. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by texasmom33

[Bluegoat]

Hee hee.

 

I think they see it as AP because they believe it is about scientifically proven brain development and they see AP as being about doing what is developmentally appropriate.  What I find interesting on that score is that there doesn't seem to be more skepticism aboutr the scientific claim.  It's a pretty well educated group.

 

A lot also seem to be tracking other things with aps though.  Stuff like sleep patterns, infant feeds, and so on, with the idea it will .  It's almost ubiquitous.  There seems to be a lot more technology, really, a lot of video monitors as well.

 

It's interesting to see how things have changed.

[domestic_engineer]

I haven't researched it, but my impression of "wonder week" was that it was more antecdotal in nature and a way to give an explanation for the behavior that you are seeing.  Just like you see a kid who's been crying about everything, not sleeping well, drooling, and running a fever, and everybody and their mother will say "Oh, the baby must be cutting teeth."  (Never mind that the baby may have picked up a bug somewhere.)  So if you are observant and note all such behavior, you might be able to conclude that the baby is having a "wonder week."  

 

Perhaps it fits into AP philosophy because you're supposed to be observing the child's actions?  And perhaps the app is to help people record their observations in one handy-dandy place because you always have your phone on you?     And perhaps the app is there to make someone money?!?  :)  I never realized there was a book ... and app ... and journal ... and .....

 

[Guest]

    And perhaps the app is there to make someone money?!?   :)  I never realized there was a book ... and app ... and journal ... and .....

 

My favorite part was where it says you shouldn't use the app without the book! Buy the book! It made me think of CC and the buy the book from us or you're not being supportive guilt trip. 

 

 

Hee hee.

 

I think they see it as AP because they believe it is about scientifically proven brain development and they see AP as being about doing what is developmentally appropriate.  What I find interesting on that score is that there doesn't seem to be more skepticism aboutr the scientific claim.  It's a pretty well educated group.

 

A lot also seem to be tracking other things with aps though.  Stuff like sleep patterns, infant feeds, and so on, with the idea it will .  It's almost ubiquitous.  There seems to be a lot more technology, really, a lot of video monitors as well.

 

It's interesting to see how things have changed.

 

Boy, isn't that the truth though with sooo much these days!! If you slap the comment "studies show that...." most people never actually stop to question much less look up the research. It's like it came down from the mountain with smoke and fire on a tablet. Well if STUDIES SAY. Oh well then, we MUST be complete heathens to disregard.  :001_rolleyes: And yes, you're completely right. It's the people you would think would want to question that seem the most likely to fling "scientific" around to justify decisions without really looking hard into the science like you're saying. 

[EmseB]

With #4 I used an app to track feeding and diapers, because she was #4 and I couldn't remember how to tie my shoes, lol. I wanted to make sure the baby got fed, and I had a hard time judging how much time had gone by because I was always distracted.

 

No one would ever accuse me of being AP, though.

[wendyroo]

I've never used a tracking app, but I do find simple paper and pencil tracking to be helpful when I have a newborn.  I just tend to note when baby nursed and for approximately how long and how often and how well baby napped.  It is just a helpful reminder when I get busy and suddenly realize that baby has been asleep for a long time, and when did she last nurse?  It also helps me notice baby's preferred routine; if she likes taking a long morning nap around 9am, then I can make sure she is fed, changed and swaddled in her Rock and Play at that time watching her mobile until she is ready to drift off.

 

As for wonder weeks, I think they are complete hooey.  I mean, yes, most typically developing babies reach certain milestones are roughly the same time, but exactly when it happens and how it plays out when it does vary considerably.  I find it funny watching new parents try to shoehorn their baby's behavior into the wonder week schedule.  "Oh, she is just so fussy right now; this wonder week 19 mas been going on for a month.  Of course, she is already 23 weeks, so maybe she is actually entering wonder week 26!.  I really should pack up her old 19 week toys and stock up on the new ones the books says will appropriately stimulate her 26 week development!!"

 

Wendy

[domestic_engineer]

With #4 I used an app to track feeding and diapers, because she was #4 and I couldn't remember how to tie my shoes, lol. I wanted to make sure the baby got fed, and I had a hard time judging how much time had gone by because I was always distracted.

 

This.

This is/was soooooooo true.

[Murphy101]

Oh geez. I don't get any of it. Barring medical problem needing tracked, adding more paperwork to my life is just not something I'm ever going to volunteer for doing.

 

I never tracked anything. Baby woke up, I nursed and changed diapers and rocked or whatever and repeated such until baby fell back to sleep. Repeat process for next year plus.

 

As for milestones, I think it's darn near psycho how obsessed so many people are with them. And they don't know anything about it.

 

There's a huge frame of "normal" and within that frame is a much narrower section of "average" but way way too many people don't understand that average, median, and normal are not all the same thing.

 

And that's not even getting into the hot topic of whether "abnormal" is even all that big a concern. Most of the time it isn't. Either because it's temporary or because it's not a major problem to deal with.

 

And no, here's my disclaimer:

I'm not saying never be concerned about our kids. I worry 24/7 same as any other mama. I'm just more selective about what's genuinely worth losing sleep over than news and parenting magazines/boards seem to think I should be.

 

ETA: The tracking to avoid distraction rates right up there with white noise to deal with noise to me. I totally understand the brain fog phase of caring for little ones. But adding ANOTHER thing to do would not have been helpful to me. If I could keep track of anything on anything, I wouldn't need the tracker thingy! 😆

Edited September 23, 2016 by Murphy101

[Bluegoat]

It's interesting to me that some find tracking useful - I never worried that a baby hadn't fed for a while, I assumed they would tell me when they were hungry.  A new one who was not feeding well might be a different story of course.

 

But - I am terrible at tracking anything.

[Slache]

I use an Itzbeen timer for the first few weeks. I track dirty diapers as wet has never been a concern, feedings, and my medication from my cesarean.

 

http://www.target.com/p/itzbeen-baby-care-timer-green/-/A-10777837?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google&CPNG=DSA_Home%2BImprovement_Categories&adgroup=Timers&LID=700000001173084pgs&network=g&device=m&location=9032827&fndsrc=tgtao&gclid=Cj0KEQjwyJi_BRDLusby7_S7z-IBEiQAwCVvn-ub4Z7X_e6r4UjbQY3XJF04k6paMuS58RqIb3VhNHwaAujN8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

I love and recommend it.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

See, it's this type of thing right here that makes me think I'm not really going to be all that useful to the upcoming generation of mothers. I used to think I'd be able to mentor and help some, and enjoy it. The farther we go afield from everything I know (in parenting and education) the more I think that I'm just going to happily leave them to it, without malice or bitterness, and focus on my other hobbies.

 

Also, I miss mothering dot commune (circa 2005) because we would have had a wonderful time mocking this wonder weeks thingy!

 

"helps you know what's going on in baby's head"

"gives notifications when baby is making a leap"
"keeps you informed of baby's developmental changes day AND night"

[EmseB]

It's interesting to me that some find tracking useful - I never worried that a baby hadn't fed for a while, I assumed they would tell me when they were hungry. A new one who was not feeding well might be a different story of course.

 

But - I am terrible at tracking anything.

My last two were sleepy babies. I let them sleep at night, but it has been really easy, IME, for them to sleep long stretches during the day (4-5) hours, and then start to get days and nights mixed up because they then want to eat all night because I got busy during the day and they didn't fuss to eat. For me it got into a cycle that I really wanted to break by feeding more during the day because I couldn't function when they fed a lot at night. But I got busy during the day and four hours went by quickly! Maybe they were abnormal babies, but they didn't seem they way, just...easy.

 

I don't think it's a huge deal. I'm on my phone anyway when I'm nursing, I tap a button and the program sends me a notification 3 hours later. I didn't feel like it was obsessive or unhealthy or some sort of hyper focus. It was just a helpful tool for me. And I would say I stopped using it by about 3 months.

 

Maybe this sounds defensive or whatever, but I'm pretty laid back (as were my last two babies, apparently!).

[EmseB]

See, it's this type of thing right here that makes me think I'm not really going to be all that useful to the upcoming generation of mothers. I used to think I'd be able to mentor and help some, and enjoy it. The farther we go afield from everything I know (in parenting and education) the more I think that I'm just going to happily leave them to it, without malice or bitterness, and focus on my other hobbies.

 

Also, I miss mothering dot commune (circa 2005) because we would have had a wonderful time mocking this wonder weeks thingy!

 

"helps you know what's going on in baby's head"

"gives notifications when baby is making a leap"

"keeps you informed of baby's developmental changes day AND night"

I think I must be talking about something different, so maybe all my posts were irrelevant. I just used an app to say when baby nursed, I have no idea about anything that attempts to track developmental milestones or anything. I can't even manage to keep a baby book!

[Bluegoat]

It's a new parenting fashion.

 

There's only 8 years between my ds and his cousin, and the parenting fashions were completely different for my sister than they were for ,me.

 

I'm glad I missed it, as that kind of focus on my babies made me more anxious, not less.

 

Yes, it really has changes since my dd11 was born, and even my ds6.

 

It does seem to me like a lot of the moms are anxious, there seems to be a ot of pressure.

 

I think that was what initially I liked about the AP approach - when I started it seemed very much - follow your baby's cues, nature will mostly take care of itself, here are a few tools that might work well to facilitate that.

 

It seems really different now, in its own way a lot like the very regimented stuff my grandparents generation did, with the same emphasis on somehow ruining the baby if you do it wrong.  Except instead of ruining the baby by picking it up too much and spoiling it, you ruin it by putting it down to much and creating psychological damage.

[Bluegoat]

I think I must be talking about something different, so maybe all my posts were irrelevant. I just used an app to say when baby nursed, I have no idea about anything that attempts to track developmental milestones or anything. I can't even manage to keep a baby book!

 

I mentioned two things in my OP, I think that is where the confusion lies.

 

One is a system that is supposed to tell you when your baby is having special brain development spurts that affect behavior - the Wonder Weeks.  It purports to be science-based but I think its a scam.

 

But I was also interested that so many of the moms are using aps.  I can see how some are using them based on this thread, but I find it interesting that when I started with AP years ago, charting was so outside that philosophy unless there was a real medical issue, and now these AP moms seem to see it as an essential to manage their babies.

 

Though- maybe managing is the issue?  Their expectations of mothering seem so intense, and the consequences of doing it wrong so serious - maybe they really are just that desperate for anything that seems like it could lend some predictability?

[EmseB]

I had my first in '07, and AP always seemed to me to be very high pressure.  I was not supposed to let my baby cry, I was supposed to co-sleep, and supposed to babywear and breastfeed, I was supposed to delay vaccinations, use amber necklaces, cloth diaper, and on and on.  Oh, and heaven forbid I use purees instead of doing baby-led weaning.  To me, AP never represented itself as freeing or relaxed.

 

I did always hear, "watch the baby, not the clock" when it came to nursing and didn't know that wasn't the norm within AP circles anymore.

 

But, I was always in this weird cross-section of mothers.  I was decidedly not AP, but I had drug-free births on purpose (one at home), I used cloth diapers, and I breastfed.  But I couldn't co-sleep, even the best baby carriers make me uncomfortable, we vax'd on schedule....I was just not on board that train, but it was kind of like I was hanging out at the station or something.  I definitely could not hack it as an AP mom, mostly because I thought there were so many things that a "good" AP mom was supposed to do that weren't sustainable for me.

[Bluegoat]

I had my first in '07, and AP always seemed to me to be very high pressure.  I was not supposed to let my baby cry, I was supposed to co-sleep, and supposed to babywear and breastfeed, I was supposed to delay vaccinations, use amber necklaces, cloth diaper, and on and on.  Oh, and heaven forbid I use purees instead of doing baby-led weaning.  To me, AP never represented itself as freeing or relaxed.

 

I did always hear, "watch the baby, not the clock" when it came to nursing and didn't know that wasn't the norm within AP circles anymore.

 

But, I was always in this weird cross-section of mothers.  I was decidedly not AP, but I had drug-free births on purpose (one at home), I used cloth diapers, and I breastfed.  But I couldn't co-sleep, even the best baby carriers make me uncomfortable, we vax'd on schedule....I was just not on board that train, but it was kind of like I was hanging out at the station or something.  I definitely could not hack it as an AP mom, mostly because I thought there were so many things that a "good" AP mom was supposed to do that weren't sustainable for me.

 

Some of these things were what eventually sent me in another direction, too.  I think I tended to see these things less as demands so much as tools, at the beginning, which means they worked well.  It probably helped that at the time I lived in a place where there wasn't a lot of parents taking that approch anyway.

 

It was later that I started to see moms who seemed really opressed by the recommendations, and also began to feel like a lot of the big proponents, like the Dr Sears empire or Mothering people, where actually really encouraging it in an explicit way.

[Murphy101]

The older dh and I get and the more kids we have, the more we are thinking our "poor, young and dumb" years were a tremendous blessing in disguise.

 

The What to expect books were just hitting the market when we had our first and though parenting mags and tv shows and such were around, they weren't as devoted to as they are now.

 

dh and I have made the majority of our parenting decisions based on just doing what needed done.

 

We co slept bcause we were fracking exhausted and had our first baby in a one bedroom apartment and didn't have a lot of money for baby stuff.

 

We breastfed bc it seemed like the most economical and simple thing to manage. And we didn't breastfed all of them bc sometimes it just didn't work out. I think the only thing we purposely did was no matter what, our babies are held to be fed. We never bottle propped or gave them their bottle to hold. For some reason that has always drove both dh and I nuts to see.

 

We didn't let them cry bc we just cannot stand the sound of a baby crying. It's like torture. And we were both working and then had other little ones we didn't want to have woken up by baby crying. So we nursed or fed a bottle on demand, rocking, walking, cosleeping or whatever.

 

We never had gadgets to hold or entertain our babies. So when a baby was fussy they were held. When a baby was too laid back to bother waking up to nurse often enough, they were held so they'd be nursed more often.

 

It had nothing to do with feeling pressured to do everything right. Pretty sure we screwed up plenty too.

 

We just did what needed done when it needed done.

 

Now I hear tell it's called AP parenting. Or free range parenting. Or intentional parenting. Or ...

 

Well 22 years ago when we started our parenting journey it was just 2 poor people in their early 20s taking care of their babies as best they could parenting.

 

All this stuff that's supposed to help just seems to make parents way more exhausted and stressed than I remember being as a new mom. We worried and fretted like all parents always have, but not to the scale that seems so common these days.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Murphy101

[ktgrok]

Yes, it really has changes since my dd11 was born, and even my ds6.

 

It does seem to me like a lot of the moms are anxious, there seems to be a ot of pressure.

 

I think that was what initially I liked about the AP approach - when I started it seemed very much - follow your baby's cues, nature will mostly take care of itself, here are a few tools that might work well to facilitate that.

 

It seems really different now, in its own way a lot like the very regimented stuff my grandparents generation did, with the same emphasis on somehow ruining the baby if you do it wrong.  Except instead of ruining the baby by picking it up too much and spoiling it, you ruin it by putting it down to much and creating psychological damage.

 

YES!!!! When I got into AP style,it was so refreshing and freeing. Now it's just another set of rules, or at least some people take it that way. I found out my friend was TERRIFIED to let the baby cry AT ALL, even if she had to pee or pull something out of the oven, or whatever. I was like, no...that's not what they are talking about when it comes to cry it out. For petes sake, put the kid in the highchair for 3 minutes while you finish dinner! 

 

It went from "follow the baby's cues" to a regimented thing. I don't know why...maybe all things go that way eventually, especially once someone starts making money off of it. 

[ktgrok]

I had my first in '07, and AP always seemed to me to be very high pressure.  I was not supposed to let my baby cry, I was supposed to co-sleep, and supposed to babywear and breastfeed, I was supposed to delay vaccinations, use amber necklaces, cloth diaper, and on and on.  Oh, and heaven forbid I use purees instead of doing baby-led weaning.  To me, AP never represented itself as freeing or relaxed.

 

 

 

When I first got into AP it was 1999. There was a big focus on listening to the baby, and on bonding, rather than specific practices. Respecting what the baby needed, not a strict list of things. So if baby slept better alone, that was fine. If baby slept better with you, great. Being flexible, etc. 

 

I don't see it that way anymore, it's almost a contest now. 

[ktgrok]

Amen, Murphy. What you describe is pretty much how we parented too. We did what worked at the time, rather than freaking out over what might "ruin" them or "spoil" them or whatever. I think a lot of parenting is done out of fear now, and that's just too bad. I tell new parents to just do what works for them and the baby, and not worry about next year or whatever. 

 

We also didn't know many other parents at all, and the internet was fairly new, so not a lot of pressure or comparisons amongst peers, which probably helped. 

Edited September 25, 2016 by ktgrok

[DesertBlossom]

There are plenty of things I do that are considered "AP" but I don't consider myself AP really. Years ago on a parenting forum women were criticizing mothers with strollers. My eyes nearly rolled back in my head. I own half a dozen different baby carriers, but there are times a stroller works better. The competitiveness and holier-than-attitude from some AP parents is a turn off.

Edited September 25, 2016 by DesertBlossom

[Bluegoat]

YES!!!! When I got into AP style,it was so refreshing and freeing. Now it's just another set of rules, or at least some people take it that way. I found out my friend was TERRIFIED to let the baby cry AT ALL, even if she had to pee or pull something out of the oven, or whatever. I was like, no...that's not what they are talking about when it comes to cry it out. For petes sake, put the kid in the highchair for 3 minutes while you finish dinner! 

 

It went from "follow the baby's cues" to a regimented thing. I don't know why...maybe all things go that way eventually, especially once someone starts making money off of it. 

 

I really had my eyes opened when I went to an LLL meeting for moms nursing older kids - I knew the lady who ran it and since I'd nursed a lot of toddlers she invited me.

 

One of the moms at the meeting was upset because her son who was 2 kept hurting her while nursing - biting, getting into weid positions and such.  I suggested she just tell him no he could not do that and put him down when he did those things, and he would stop doing them if he really wanted to nurse.

 

She was really shocked and seemed to think this would cause some sort of complex over being rejected.  I was shocked that several of the moms thought it was natural to let a toddler think it was ok to hurt someone and put up with being hurt just because it corresponded to nursing.

[Murphy101]

Amen, Murphy. What you describe is pretty much how we parented too. We did what worked at the time, rather than freaking out over what might "ruin" them or "spoil" them or whatever. I think a lot of parenting is done out of fear now, and that's just too bad. I tell new parents to just do what works for them and the baby, and not worry about next year or whatever.

 

We also didn't know many other parents at all, and the internet was fairly new, so not a lot of pressure or comparisons amongst peers, which probably helped.

Thank god for the lack of Internet back then. At the time, I really felt lonely and adrift bc I had NO ONE to ask if this or that was normal, what they did or thought I should do. My mother was dead and I wouldn't have wanted her advice anyways. Dh and I are only adults, so no siblings to share the journey with. It was just dh and I and we did the best we could. Turns out, a pinch of common sense and a whole lot of not much other choice ended up following a lot of the so-called expert parent advisors

 

It seems like having all the advisors and PSAs and peanut gallery commentators online (and I see the irony of that on this thread lol) have created more fear and insecurity than significantly happier families.

[Murphy101]

There are plenty of things I do that are considered "AP" but I don't consider myself AP really. Years ago on a parenting forum women were criticizing mothers with strollers. My eyes nearly rolled back in my head. I own half a dozen different baby carriers, but there are times a stroller works better. The competitiveness and holier-than-attitude from some AP parents is a turn off.

I don't own any carriers. I tried just about every style and brand when they were first coming into vogue a decade plus ago, but I have yet to find one that doesn't kill my back. Idk why, but just carrying them in my arms doesn't hurt nearly as much to me. And I couldn't figure how to breastfeed while wearing it and since mine seemed to constantly nurse, taking the blasted thing on and off constantly was a PITA anyways.

[heartlikealion]

I've had the WW app on my phone for over a year? I hardly look at it. I mean, I might do that soon because we had questions about dd's speech. I don't understand the comments about pen/paper in the thread. I never write anything in the app. It is just something I view to see a timetable of what is going on/may be happening soon in their development. "Your baby may cry when you walk away. They are starting to understand distance better" or some such thing.

 

Dh and I don't remember milestones or document much. I had to fill out paperwork on ds and state when he did a whole list of things. I asked dh to help me fill it out. Dh just wrote "average age" in the fields :lol:

[Bluegoat]

I've had the WW app on my phone for over a year? I hardly look at it. I mean, I might do that soon because we had questions about dd's speech. I don't understand the comments about pen/paper in the thread. I never write anything in the app. It is just something I view to see a timetable of what is going on/may be happening soon in their development. "Your baby may cry when you walk away. They are starting to understand distance better" or some such thing.

 

Dh and I don't remember milestones or document much. I had to fill out paperwork on ds and state when he did a whole list of things. I asked dh to help me fill it out. Dh just wrote "average age" in the fields :lol:

 

There are other apps, not the WW ones, where you record information.  How much baby is eating, or how often diapers, sleep patters, and so on.  Some of them will graph it for you and such.

 

The thing seems to be to use this information to create some kind of order or predictability to things like when the baby is likely to sleep.

[heartlikealion]

The only thing I used was pump log to keep up with pumping breast milk.

[heartlikealion]

I don't own any carriers. I tried just about every style and brand when they were first coming into vogue a decade plus ago, but I have yet to find one that doesn't kill my back. Idk why, but just carrying them in my arms doesn't hurt nearly as much to me. And I couldn't figure how to breastfeed while wearing it and since mine seemed to constantly nurse, taking the blasted thing on and off constantly was a PITA anyways.

 

Just in case it interests you, look into Lillebaby. I believe it is the only one on the market with the back panel. My model has it and the back panel can be purchased separately, so possibly used with other models.