Is this where I get to do the "I told you so" dance? (totally just whining)

[SarahW]

TL:DR: My version of the "I put my kid in school and they didn't trust what I told them and aren't doing what they said they would" story.

 

So, yeah, Crazypants started school here on Monday. A legal necessity. 

 

When we met with the Director (principal) of the school last week we discussed the issues he had in school and why I had been homeschooling him. Because of various reasons (his Dutch being quite weak, his "issues" we're still pursuing diagnosis for, and the fact that the group 6 class is mixed with group 7 and is a very large class) it was suggested to put him in group 5, which is a grade "behind" his age level.

 

Over the past month I had tortured CP with doing some MM pages, and I put those together in a binder, along with some old Kangaroo tests he did, and showed it to her. She showed it to a teacher, and they agreed that it was above level. They agreed to give him group 7 math books. Which I thought might still be a bit low, but the school only goes up to group 8 (which is 6th grade in USA), and math here is heavy on "applied" and word problems, so considering that barrier and the big unknown of how the American and Dutch S&S line up, that seemed to be a fine solution.

 

WELL, on Tuesday they started teaching math. They left CP in the classroom at first, then had to take him out - because he was shouting out the answers before the teacher was done going through the question. Since the teacher was obviously speaking Dutch, this is a good sign on the language side. But.....why did it happen? Anyway, they put him at a table in the hallway to do math, but I think they gave him the group 5 workbook. He did units 1-3 that day. He did unit 4 yesterday. There's only about 12 units in a years math book (if they're using the textbook I think they're using). On the one hand I'm impressed - he would never sit and do review math for 45 mins for me, and certainly never over 10 pages at a time.  :toetap05:  But on the other hand - I tortured him with MM to prevent this from happening!  :svengo: They said they would give him group 7 math!

 

DH thinks that they just defaulted back into their regular approach - homeschooling is weird and every parent thinks their kid is smart, let's see for ourselves. Umm, okay. DH and his family think this whole incident is funny, but I'm pretty annoyed. Sure, it's great he is reviewing math, and gets to practice his Dutch with "easy" math. But he is still spending nearly an hour a day doing math he already knows. And he is doing worksheets, not receiving any direct math instruction. DH thinks that they'll just keep this going until he "tops out" at material he doesn't know yet. Theoretically, I can see that, but I know this kid, it's more likely that when the novelty wears off he'll get sick of doing easy math worksheets and throw a fit long before he gets done doing the whole group 6 book too, and the group 7.  <_<

 

There's school choice here, but we live in a very rural area, so there's not many choices for school. And otherwise he seems to be very happy at this school. I'm just so.... :willy_nilly: . But everyone else is not. DH says we'll discuss it with the teacher at the parent-teacher meeting? When it that? He doesn't know, in a few weeks he guesses. Ugh.

 

There's not much I can do right now. So I'm just venting. Sigh.  :o

[Loesje22000]

:grouphug:

[Loesje22000]

Talk to the teacher not to the principal.

A principal will promise you everything to get you in school,

A teacher has to do the job.

 

Is there a Leonardoschool in the area?

Has the school kangoeroeklassen, plusklassen or something like that?

 

Can he 'integrate' group 6&7 in one year?

So 2017-2018 will be group 8 (= testing year) and he can go to a technasium or bilingual VWO in Fall 2018?

[SarahW]

Talk to the teacher not to the principal.

A principal will promise you everything to get you in school,

A teacher has to do the job.

 

Is there a Leonardoschool in the area?

Has the school kangoeroeklassen, plusklassen or something like that?

 

Can he 'integrate' group 6&7 in one year?

So 2017-2018 will be group 8 (= testing year) and he can go to a technasium or bilingual VWO in Fall 2018?

 

 

I thought the teacher had also looked at the notebook and agreed with the principal that he would be given group 7 math. So...I don't know what happened there.

 

I thought I heard that Leonardo folded. There is a school for "high achievers" in the area, but it is not close, considering that we would need to do drop off and pick ups every day. It does extension work, and hands-on-learning stuff, from what I see on their website. Not sure if that would be exactly what he needs, but they would at least have the resources to offer more, maybe? Once we get the evaluations done, and his Dutch picks up, I think I'll start poking in that direction some more for next year. CP would be old enough to take bus there then.

 

I don't know if this school will eventually skip him back ahead. I guess it all depends on how well he does with Dutch. I did manage to find an English description of the first few years of VWO math books, and if I'm reading it right, CP has worked with nearly all the topics in year 1, and many topics in year 2. Maybe hasn't practiced them a lot or completely mastered them, but he's started to play with them. So, yeah, by putting him back a grade, it puts him back 4 years in math. The school can say they'll try to give him workbooks that meet him where he is, but will a basisschool give him VWO math once he's done with the group 8 workbook? I don't see that working....  I'm pretty sure there's no bilingual schools in our province (we're so, so, so rural), there isn't even a lot of options for VWO.

 

I'm trying to keep up with afterschooling from the "fun" pages in BA, but he's pretty tired when he gets home. Which is understandable if he's doing all these math worksheets in school! 

[quark]

:grouphug: stay strong.

[luuknam]

The school can say they'll try to give him workbooks that meet him where he is, but will a basisschool give him VWO math once he's done with the group 8 workbook? I don't see that working....  I'm pretty sure there's no bilingual schools in our province (we're so, so, so rural), there isn't even a lot of options for VWO.

 

What province are you in?

 

Anyway, a) it's unlikely they'll give him secondary school math in elementary school, and b) even if they did, you'd still have the same problem in secondary school. Your best bet (imo) is to ask that he takes the end of unit test, and if he passes it, he spends the math period at school working on Dutch.

[SarahW]

What province are you in?

 

Anyway, a) it's unlikely they'll give him secondary school math in elementary school, and b) even if they did, you'd still have the same problem in secondary school. Your best bet (imo) is to ask that he takes the end of unit test, and if he passes it, he spends the math period at school working on Dutch.

 

We're in the middle-of-nowhere of middle-of-nowhere Drenthe. At least it's quiet here.  ^_^

 

Now I'm wondering what would happen if he took a math practice test for the CITO. I haven't looked at it since I thought the language would trip him, but since he's apparently able to to figure it out enough to do the math, maybe he could do it? Is the CITO math portion even as language based as the "real world math" curriculum? I'm not sure what this test looks like at all....

[Loesje22000]

For secundary you might want take a look at:

http://www.begaafdheidsprofielscholen.nl/scholen-2/scholen/hondsrug-college/

 

This boy from Drenthe went to the Math Olympiad :

http://www.rtvdrenthe.nl/nieuws/109871/15-jarige-bolleboos-uit-Meppel-naar-Hong-Kong-voor-Olympiade

 

Cito train site:

http://www.kids4cito.nl

 

Be aware:

The Entree toets in groep 7 influences your lessonprogram during grade 8.

So if the Entree toets give you a HAVO score, they prepare you for HAVO during groep 8.

Most teachers will not do much effort to get a student in a higher track.

 

Leonardo stopped indeed, but there seems to be some schools are continueing in extra support:

http://www.hetgezinsblad.nl/nieuws/32295/leonardo-onderwijs-stopt-onderwijs-aan-hoogbegaafde-kinderen-blijft/

[pinewarbler]

Wow, I can relate. My DS was assessed at being 4 years ahead in math in JK! Did he get accelerated or mentored? No. He did get an offer for a congregated gifted class, but it is too far away for his age.

 

I can't help with regulations in the Netherlands, but I do have experience advocating for the gifted in a public school setting. When I talk to the principal it is more along the lines of discussing her mentoring the gifted in general at the school. One of our VP's would actually anger the teacher if she tried to get involved, so I don't find that route productive.

 

I always start with this attitude: The teacher is the one who has to teach my child, and they have many other kids to contend with as well. I try to pitch solutions that are doable by the teacher, or ask them what they think is possible given the level my kid is at. I do tell them that I want my kid to be fully engaged and learn to work hard AT HIS LEVEL. They have the right to learn to work hard just as much as any other child. I hope that they can help make that happen. I also try to impress on them the importance of motivating these types of kids, so that they don't walk away with the attitude that if he's ahead they can do nothing. I also offer to help in any way, such as finding resources, researching/booking field trips, buying project supplies, etc.

 

If they came back with something like "he was giving the answers before I could finish" my only answer would be "did you have him teach the lesson?" Where we live, kids are encouraged to show their solutions at the board and the teacher is expected to create a discussion around what worked and what didn't. I don't think putting a kid out in the hall for knowing the work is appropriate.... surely there is a way of taking this fully engaged kid and diverting him? This doesn't sound like a flexible teacher. However, even if they weren't dealing with him correctly, I would also spend the next few weeks correcting my kid every single time he interrupted me.

 

I would also say that sometimes it takes the teacher a few weeks to hit their stride, so gentle reminders at this time of year are more appropriate than hard ball. Usually by week 3 I go in and have a follow up with them after school (I make an appointment beforehand) just to touch lightly on the ONE or two things my kid needs to have (last year it was mostly mentoring on independent projects, which once the teacher saw what DS was producing, he was very keen to help.)

 

And make sure it is a parent-teacher conference you are having, not the curriculum night where everyone is there. I can't tell you how many times I've seen teachers get angry when a parent tries to have a whispery conference in the corner during those nights. Completely inappropriate and also conterproductive.

 

Because there is no acceleration where we live, I really struggle with the math component. In languages, a kid can work ahead with less structure, but in math even a PG kid needs to ACTUALLY be taught the lesson. I can't figure out how a single teacher would achieve that without cluster grouping. This would work if you had 3 or 4 kids ahead, and you quickly gave them a separate group lesson. With my child, he'd need to be clustered with kids years older than him, and so far I haven't found a solution for that. In another year, he'll be in grade 6, and a 'senior', so I plan to ask at the high school next door for a math teacher to mentor him... he may have to go after school for the lesson and then do the work in class.

 

The teacher last year was ideal in that he assumed that there would be other kids who were ahead, so offered the opportunities (such as independent project help) to them all. He clustered the mathy kids together as well. I think if I'd pushed him, he would have tested him out... that is the fastest way to prove your kid should be exempt from the busywork. Last year was the best scenerio yet, but barely worked for us.

 

And I've only met 2 teachers in all of these many years who didn't absolutely love inane busywork :(

 

[Arcadia]

I was in a convent school for 1st to 6th. My teachers who are nuns from Germany and Italy did let me do my own thing for math despite a national curriculum :). My parents barely show their face in school, my aunt was authorised to pick me up if I am sick. It was really luck. Many a times in lower primary, I used the math time to complete Chinese handwriting homework which I had forgotten.

 

I did complete a year's worth of the school's math textbook and workbook during December holidays before school starts on 2nd January. So I basically start school every year with math completed and they leave me alone but sent me for every math competition. I did similar for science and get to be the lab demo person for my class.

 

Good luck :grouphug:

Edited September 2, 2016 by Arcadia

[kiwik]

I was in a convent school for 1st to 6th. My teachers who are nuns from Germany and Italy did let me do my own thing for math despite a national curriculum :). My parents barely show their face in school, my aunt was authorised to pick me up if I am sick. It was really luck. Many a times in lower primary, I used the math time to complete Chinese handwriting homework which I had forgotten.

 

I did complete a year's worth of the school's math textbook and workbook during December holidays before school starts on 2nd January. So I basically start school every year with math completed and they leave me alone but sent me for every math competition. I did similar for science and get to be the lab demo person for my class.

 

Good luck :grouphug:

Sounds cool but here there are no textbooks or fixed curiculum to do just a national overarching curriculum and national standards tbat aren't really laid out for parents.

[SarahW]

Thanks for the commiseration, y'all.  :)

 

The situation might be okay for now, actually. CP is shaping up to be a real introvert, so he actually likes doing math by himself in the hallway. It gives him some quiet time out of the classroom. And he's sorta proud that he has "mad skillz" in something, when everything else in school is a struggle because of the language issues. The workbooks he's doing has units in sets of four, so he also likes the fact that he's able to "finish" a book quickly. After discussing the situation with him, we're going to send him to school with a NL/EN dictionary so he can look up words in his math book he doesn't know, and he's going to work harder on learning Dutch so he can maybe move to a higher class.

 

When we meet with the teacher (sometime soon?) I'll ask what they plan on doing when he's done with their workbooks. Maybe they'll let me send in BA for him to do? That's not something that is "done" here, I don't think, but maybe they'll be flexible considering the situation. 

[Arcadia]

My oldest was allowed to read a story book or doodle/write but not bring in a textbook/workbook. So literature classics were okay since other kids are less likely to be distracted.

 

If your son does his math in the hallway, maybe BA won't be an issue since he is distracting nobody.

 

Sounds cool but here there are no textbooks or fixed curiculum to do just a national overarching curriculum and national standards that aren't really laid out for parents.

OP mentioned workbooks so they have some form of curriculum there.

[kiwik]

I think I confused posts there or something.

[Have kids -- will travel]

I'd be concerned about him spending too much time in the hallway, not working on Dutch skills. If he gets full immersion (and since you're in Drente, I'm going to assume DH is Dutch) and knows some already, he should be fully fluent by December. Get fluency as fast as possible, and then get him moved up. The Dutch readily accelerate kids, but I'm guessing the language thing has the local school feeling a bit flummoxed. 

 

My DH had the opposite experience: speaking no English and moving to an international school at age 7. He was grade-skipped when he left and put down two years (to a year under age level) because of the English. He moved up with his age after one term, and he got his grade-skip back after a year and a half. So what I want to say is to first get the language solid. The school will move him when that's sorted.

 

Also, don't use all of your negotiating power this first week. The Dutch don't push in the same way that Americans do, and if you act American, you'll be less likely to be listened to later on. 

 

Math is important, but spending a few months solidly on language is going to be a huge benefit. He won't lose the English, and he'll be able to reach native speaker level in Dutch (or close enough) through schooling. Maybe think of it like a fall break from math? 

[SarahW]

I think I confused posts there or something.

 

'Tis okay.

 

There's only a few Dutch textbook companies (not a huge market anyways), but I don't know exactly what company his school uses. It's not something parents here think about. I mean, there's no homework in elementary, so...why be concerned about it?

 

There is a publisher that makes a math "enrichment" book that follows the main text. But I don't know if the school would even own any of those. But if it keeps DS from consuming a full stack of their regular workbooks, maybe I could convince them to get it?

[Loesje22000]

Rekenwonders from Bazalt is Singapore Math in Dutch

Rekenmeesters is supplemental math for stronger students

Rekentijgers idem

Somplextra and Somplextra plus is 'different' math

 

You might want to take a look here:

http://www.hoogbegaafdvlaanderen.be/06_HB_op_school/materiaal/rekenen.html

 

In Dutch, you can better be gifted in Math then in Language Arts ;)

Nevertheless it might be possible it is still to easy for him.

 

This is an average grade 7 mathtext :

http://www.wageningse-methode.nl/methode/het-lesmateriaal/?S=x1hv

[SarahW]

I'd be concerned about him spending too much time in the hallway, not working on Dutch skills. If he gets full immersion (and since you're in Drente, I'm going to assume DH is Dutch) and knows some already, he should be fully fluent by December. Get fluency as fast as possible, and then get him moved up. The Dutch readily accelerate kids, but I'm guessing the language thing has the local school feeling a bit flummoxed. 

 

My DH had the opposite experience: speaking no English and moving to an international school at age 7. He was grade-skipped when he left and put down two years (to a year under age level) because of the English. He moved up with his age after one term, and he got his grade-skip back after a year and a half. So what I want to say is to first get the language solid. The school will move him when that's sorted.

 

Also, don't use all of your negotiating power this first week. The Dutch don't push in the same way that Americans do, and if you act American, you'll be less likely to be listened to later on. 

 

Math is important, but spending a few months solidly on language is going to be a huge benefit. He won't lose the English, and he'll be able to reach native speaker level in Dutch (or close enough) through schooling. Maybe think of it like a fall break from math? 

 

Yeah, maybe they originally left him in the classroom during math because he would get more Dutch immersion. But with shouting out the answers.... he has impulsiveness issues, one of the reasons we're getting evaluations done. 

 

My DH is Dutch, yes. We're in so much of the ancestral homeland, lol.

 

Crazypants could do well with practicing his math facts some more, so there's an upside to all this. But on the other hand, it's boring. And school is already so very boring. The school signed up for a math computer program we can do at home, which is fine except he quickly breezes through it. And what we need is more taal lessons. I try to get DH to do some language work with him as well using some cast-off workbooks and graded readers, but my DH does not understand my "curriculum is a tool, not a tyrant" and gets frustrated that he can't use them "as designed." It's an ongoing tug and war here, lol.

 

There's no parent-teacher conferences scheduled yet. Sigh. Yes, I'm just sitting on my hands, especially when the kid tells me he is also doing all the review lessons for units 1-4.

[SarahW]

Rekenwonders from Bazalt is Singapore Math in Dutch

Rekenmeesters is supplemental math for stronger students

Rekentijgers idem

Somplextra and Somplextra plus is 'different' math

 

You might want to take a look here:

http://www.hoogbegaafdvlaanderen.be/06_HB_op_school/materiaal/rekenen.html

 

In Dutch, you can better be gifted in Math then in Language Arts ;)

Nevertheless it might be possible it is still to easy for him.

 

This is an average grade 7 mathtext :

http://www.wageningse-methode.nl/methode/het-lesmateriaal/?S=x1hv

 

Sorry for all the posts - running in and out today.

 

That grade 7 math looks like it's about the equivalent of pre-Algebra. Yes, that's where he's at pretty much. In my dream world I would have a tutor go through something like that with him and explain to him what he's confused about, help him understand the Dutch math terminology, and pass over the parts he already knows. But this is real-world... :glare:  

 

The online math program the school signed up with has a section with logic puzzle type things, which he finds somewhat interesting. But he's still placed in group 5, and even if he does all the topics in hard mode, he'll be done with that rather soon. So then I'll have to find a way to ask the teacher to please change him to Group 6. If that's even possible.

 

He does practice his Dutch while doing the math workbook at school, and while doing the online program. But I have noticed with the program that since the math is so easy, he can just guess at what the Dutch instructions or "story problem" are saying, and he's usually right. That's fine for doing math, I guess, but doesn't further is language lessons very much.  :001_rolleyes:

[Mike in SA]

Can't speak to the Dutch system at all, but we did face similar issues with DS back in first grade.  His disconnect from grade level was so severe that they actually placed him with the oldest kids (5th grade) a couple of times per week.  For a little while, he enjoyed spending time helping the older kids, but eventually he was bored out of his mind.

 

The school simply couldn't accommodate.  So, we negotiated some "free study" time (sounds like your online program in that regard).  We then began preparing self-study lessons, and gave him the necessary instruction at home.  Those lessons focused on depth and breadth - not acceleration - by covering alternate number systems, inventing new branches of math, and other creative, fun stuff.  It was a lot of work, but it held things together reasonably well for the year. 

 

We started home schooling the year after, after a recommendation by his GT teacher.

[Loesje22000]

Sorry for all the posts - running in and out today.

 

That grade 7 math looks like it's about the equivalent of pre-Algebra. Yes, that's where he's at pretty much. In my dream world I would have a tutor go through something like that with him and explain to him what he's confused about, help him understand the Dutch math terminology, and pass over the parts he already knows. But this is real-world... :glare:

 

The online math program the school signed up with has a section with logic puzzle type things, which he finds somewhat interesting. But he's still placed in group 5, and even if he does all the topics in hard mode, he'll be done with that rather soon. So then I'll have to find a way to ask the teacher to please change him to Group 6. If that's even possible.

 

He does practice his Dutch while doing the math workbook at school, and while doing the online program. But I have noticed with the program that since the math is so easy, he can just guess at what the Dutch instructions or "story problem" are saying, and he's usually right. That's fine for doing math, I guess, but doesn't further is language lessons very much. :001_rolleyes:

I can search for language arts sites if I know what the focus has to be:

Spelling?

Vocab?

Comprehension reading?

Dutch don't have much grammar in groep 5,

[Loesje22000]

A starting point:

http://www.meestermichael.nl/leerlingen/5%20taal%20start.html

http://www.meestermichael.nl/leerlingen/5%20lezen.html

[SarahW]

Update:

 

CP told me late last week that he was done with the first book they gave him, and now he was doing the Group 6 book. He thinks (?). He started over with Unit 1 so hopefully it's Group 6. He also told me that he used his NL/EN dictionary to look up a word to help him complete a word problem. He was also of the opinion that whoever created a bilingual dictionary is a genius and should be thanked a billion times (lol). So success.

 

Then today - he told me that he was sick and tired of the "easy" math and had told his teaching assistant that he wasn't going to do it anymore. He spent his math time writing equations in his notebook instead. Oh. Okay. Yeah, I totally saw this coming!

 

Dh was all like, oh my! what to do? what will happen?!  :001_rolleyes:

 

Parent night is tomorrow (at 9pm, this country can be so weird sometimes) so yeah, hopefully we'll get something straightened out.

 

:svengo:

[Arcadia]

 

Parent night is tomorrow (at 9pm, this country can be so weird sometimes) so yeah, hopefully we'll get something straightened out.

 

 

:lol: alcohol on the house or BYOB (just kidding)

Good Luck!

 

ETA:

My kids' parent night was at 7:45pm so that parents could get home from work and drop kids off with a babysitter.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Arcadia

[RootAnn]

Oh my.  :huh:  I've been following along like  :lurk5: . 

 

Is Parent Night when the teachers give their little speeches & show off some off the work the kids have done during their first few weeks, but they don't really want to talk to you individually (opposite of parent-teacher conferences)?

What's your strategy? Try to keep your mouth shut & see what they say or have some sort of advocating plan ready to go if they ask for your opinion?

[SarahW]

:lol: alcohol on the house or BYOB (just kidding)

Good Luck!

 

ETA:

My kids' parent night was at 7:45pm so that parents could get home from work and drop kids off with a babysitter.

 

Lol. More like coffee on the house, with a cookie! (but only one cookie!). But since it's late, rooiboos tea will probably be a popular choice.

 

According to DH, 9pm is perfectly normal since it's "after dinnertime." I'm like - But the Dutch don't even normally eat late, so???? And, 9pm is my bedtime!  :blushing:  That's so sad, but once I get Babypants asleep I just fall into bed myself. I'm seriously at risk of falling asleep in class.  :P

 

Oh my.  :huh:  I've been following along like  :lurk5: . 

 

Is Parent Night when the teachers give their little speeches & show off some off the work the kids have done during their first few weeks, but they don't really want to talk to you individually (opposite of parent-teacher conferences)?

What's your strategy? Try to keep your mouth shut & see what they say or have some sort of advocating plan ready to go if they ask for your opinion?

 

I'm not sure what parents night here is supposed to be like. If we don't get a chance to talk to the teacher tonight, we should at least be able to set up a time to talk to him later.

 

Thanks for asking about strategy. Yes, I need to think what specifically I want. I found out which textbook series the school uses (Malmberg, for those who are familiar) and they offer a "plus" book, which is sort of like an enrichment book. I would at least like him to be doing that book, instead of the normal workbook. Better, if they want him to stay with Dutch books, is to offer him the enrichment books published by the mathematical society (Vierkant voor Wiskunde). If they could do any of the Singapore books loosje mentioned that'd be okay too, but if they use Malmberg I'm guessing they won't have Singapore-type books laying around. If they can't do any of that, I'll ask if I can send math books in with him to do. 

 

Before he left for school this morning I told him that when he's sent out to do his math book, just turn to the end and do the last unit today. If he does the last unit, maybe they'll consider the book to be done and give him the next one?

 

He did mention that his Dutch LA lessons have gotten easier, though he's not sure why (it's called "immersion method" kiddo, lol). So maybe he could start moving up a grade sometime. But since he might be completing the group 6 math today, I'm not sure if that would solve anything there. And he's making friends in his current class, so there's that too. 

 

Just a funny - DH came to me last night all excited about the fact that earlier that evening CP had gone over to visit a neighbor boy who is in middle school (equivalent of about US grade 7) and was doing some math homework, and CP looked at it and was able to do it. He did math 4 years above his level! That's amazing! I was like, yes, this is what I have been trying to tell you! Why don't you ever believe anything I tell you!!! Well, at least I can now be sure DH is on my side when it comes to asking for math acceleration. :rolleyes:  

[Loesje22000]

Malmberg has several math curriculums.

Pluspunt is just a standard math text.

 

Kien Rekenen:

http://www.malmberg.nl/Basisonderwijs/Methodes/Rekenen/Kien-rekenen.htm

 

Is for the 'stronger' math students.

 

Somplextra / Somplextra Plus is even better according to CBO (Centrum for Begaafdheids Onderzoek)

Vierkant voor wiskunde is also recommanded by them.

 

 

And yes, of course you'll get one cookie ;)

Parentnight is in the direction of teacher - parent conferences I suppose'

[luuknam]

Btw, not sure why I didn't mention this earlier, but have you connected with e.g. Pharos, the organization for parents of gifted kids? You might be able to talk to someone near you to see what they do and to help you figure out potential secondary schools:

 

http://pharosnl.nl/home/

[SarahW]

So the parent meeting was actually last night (ADHD DH did not read the newsletter sequentially...). The board meeting was beforehand, and it ran late, so we started extra late. Soooo tired..... :closedeyes:

 

It was mostly "meet the teachers, see the textbooks, talk about the class goals" night. But afterwards we started talking to the junior teacher, and soon the senior teacher and assistant were there with us and we had a quick personal chat. Basically, CP's complaint about "easy math" a few days ago did get somewhere, and the junior teacher decided to start giving him end-year CITO tests for math (these are the yearly assessment tests). He passed the group 5 one, and now they'll keep giving him the tests until they find something he doesn't know. Okay. I understand the logic in that, bit it sounds pretty tedious and boring to a kid, so I told CP to just grit his teeth and get through it, and then if he does good he'll get more interesting math.

 

My DH did mention about CP helping the older neighbor kid with his math homework, and they didn't seem surprised at all. So they must suspect that he might pass the CITO for groups 6 and 7 and 8. I don't know what their plan is for when that happens. I suppose we'll talk to them again later.

 

The teachers did say that his language fluency has picked up dramatically. His passive language has picked up to Group 5 at least, he is easily completing the LA work now, it is just the active language that is behind - speaking and written expression, and there it's probably because he is still thinking in English and needs to translate. But when asked to translate he is able to do it. So that's good. Very good.

 

We mentioned that we're in the process of scheduling an evaluation for ADHD and other "issues" and they strongly suggested that we also pursue intelligence testing at the same time. I sent the link for Pharos to my DH yesterday before we went, and he was like, "eh, yeah he's smart, but I don't know if he fits the gifted profile." But according to the teachers, he's brilliant. There's the level of math for one thing, but they also mentioned that when he answers questions in class his thinking is more...mature, abstract, synthetical(?) (not sure how to put what they said into English exactly) than is normal for kids his age. It's something that DH and I sometimes notice with him, but other times seems totally absent. Maybe being on these forums gives me a skewed view, but my kid isn't studying astrophysics or calculus, he might be smart, but he's not totally off the charts or anything.

 

The way I see it, there's three explanations:

 

1) At home he has just "played dumb" so we would give him easy work that he could get done quickly. Knowing that he's stuck in school for 6 hours no matter what encourages him to spend his time on things.

 

2) He's lazy (he just is) and doesn't like to sit and struggle to learn new things. A classroom with a teacher and other kids doesn't respond to pouty face and whining like mom does.

 

3) We live in farmlandville. Which isn't to say anything against the people who live here, just that the density of adults with graduate degrees is low here. The teachers may find CP's intelligence to be unusual here, but he may not be considered unusual if we lived in, say, Brookline, Mass., iykwim.

 

The answer may be a bit of all of the above. 

 

Well, we know to challenge him more at home, to encourage him to speak in Dutch more, and we'll just wait and see how much of the math curriculum he places out of. And we wait, wait, wait for the evaluation path to run its course. Maybe by this time next year this will be all figured out.  :laugh:

[Loesje22000]

That testing may sound tedious, but it is parted of the protocol for acceleration.

So someone there knows how to handle this, that is a +

Let your husband read: 'Als je kind (g) een Einstein is' by Tessa Kieboom.

She is the director of the flemish CBO.

The one sentence summary is: you can be gifted without being Einstein.

You'll probably find the book in the library, whether or not through IBL (the abbreviation is the same in the Dutch).

 

You'll need that intelligence test for further purposes, without that they'll probably not do enough adaptations to your son.

(Elementary & Secundary)

 

In some low densed areas a group of schools organises together plus/kangourou classes if a school alone has not enough attendents for it.

[kiwik]

Explanation 4. You have never known many kids who weren't well above average and thought the few average ones you came across were just a bit dim.

[SarahW]

Explanation 4. You have never known many kids who weren't well above average and thought the few average ones you came across were just a bit dim.

 

Lol, maybe.

 

CP has a cousin here who is a few days older than him. They played together often this summer, and while we thought it would give CP language practice, it turned out that cousin has picked up rather fluent English pretty much on his own, so they just played in English. Previous friend in America was a tad older and Chinese, so had a classic "tiger mom" life. Previous cousin playmate in America has been subject to serious discussion about grade skipping. Other kids, I don't know, maybe I just assume they're brilliant at something that I don't have a chance to see them doing?

[luuknam]

You don't need to be all that bright to be gifted. An IQ of 130 will suffice. No need to be a genius. I think a lot of the frequent posters on the AL board have kids whose IQs are way above 130, and the average IQ of the kids of people on these boards (not the AL one) is probably >100, making the 'average' probably seem higher than it is.

 

Of course, I don't know CP, so I have no idea if your husband is right - it's possible he's just high average with maybe just a sprinkle of extra math ability. Then and again, I know my parents were quite surprised at my IQ test results when I was 11 - they would've said the same thing your husband said, and I scored well over 130.

 

ETA: Once upon a time, they considered IQ to be mental age/chronological age. Which would mean a 9.0yo with an IQ of 130 would be the equivalent of an average 11.7yo. The average 11.7yo isn't doing astrophysics or calculus.

Edited September 16, 2016 by luuknam

[SarahW]

That testing may sound tedious, but it is parted of the protocol for acceleration.

So someone there knows how to handle this, that is a +

Let your husband read: 'Als je kind (g) een Einstein is' by Tessa Kieboom.

She is the director of the flemish CBO.

The one sentence summary is: you can be gifted without being Einstein.

You'll probably find the book in the library, whether or not through IBL (the abbreviation is the same in the Dutch).

 

You'll need that intelligence test for further purposes, without that they'll probably not do enough adaptations to your son.

(Elementary & Secundary)

 

In some low densed areas a group of schools organises together plus/kangourou classes if a school alone has not enough attendents for it.

 

 

The testing makes logical sense, I guess. But from a kid's POV - doing a 45 page math workbook, and then another one, and then another one, all mostly full of stuff which is "easy" or "boring" is a bit of a killjoy. Yesterday CP informed me that he only did 6 questions of his math test, because after the 6th question he got bored and just started writing his own math equations to solve.  :001_rolleyes:

 

I explained to him (again) that once he was done with all the math tests, the school would find him something more interesting to do. So just suffer through it and get it done. He is not pleased. But hopefully he'll get it done soon enough and the school won't prove me a liar?

 

I found an article that summarizes that book and sent it to my DH. He liked it. Turns out that when he was in school some teachers also thought him to be "gifted." There was a time when he was 8 or 9 when he wrote a poem about nuclear war (this was during the Cold War) which surprised everyone with its quality and subject matter. But there was a lack of testing and enrichment so nothing much was done for him.

 

Also, he got used to being lazy in school. He could chill, smoke a lot of weed (lol, he did), and just do enough to "pass" his class without trouble, so that's what he did. If there was something which required him to struggle to think for a few minutes to understand he would just ignore it. This is also somewhat a manifestation of his ADHD. But it also caused him to underperform and frustrate his teachers, and resulted in the general aimlessness he felt when he finished school.

 

We also see with CP the same sort of laziness and passiveness. Which may be what contributes to him not "unschooling" himself to achieve things, like I see with many of the other gifted kids represented on this board. And the anxiety also probably heightens his sense of perfectionism....

 

Anyway, DH and I spent the morning running around town trying to find out who would cover the cost for the psychologist the doctor's office referred us to. Insurance, nope. The county, nope. Next step is to go back to the IB and ask what the school can do. Austerity and cut-backs result in mental health getting chopped first. Sigh.

[Arcadia]

When we were with the public charter, my kids were promised by the admin that they could skip a years worth of math if they clear the end of course test. My oldest did three end of course tests at that time, he was 7yrs 9 months. The "carrot" was worth it to him.

 

Sometimes it is also hard to have a passion when things come easy. The sense of achievement isn't there.

[SarahW]

For those still eating  :lurk5: .

DS is now (now!) doing the Groep 8 book. He says it's "somewhat more interesting" but still all stuff he already knows. But the Dutch is harder, so that's slowing him down a bit. Okay.

 

I think he still dumps his math book after a bit and writes his own (harder) math equations to do instead.  :001_rolleyes:

 

No idea what the school will do with him when he's done with the Groep 8 book. We're going to try to talk to one of the teachers sometime this week. The closest high school is over 20km away, so there's no chance of nabbing a quick time with a higher math teacher. Maybe he can do something online? Not sure what they have that they can offer him though.

 

 

ETA: And also, yeah, the S&S here is so different. Besides the fact that it is integrated, it's just different. I got a HAVO 3b math book from a neighbor, and some of it is beyond his level, looks like what I would consider Algebra 2. But other parts would be easy for him, finding volume and surface area of a cylinder type stuff. So even if he skips ahead, he's still way out of step with the curriculum. It's probably my fault, after school today we worked with special triangles and pythagorean triples. I try to enrich, but as I mentioned in some other threads, he just wants to move. Well okay, but I see him fitting into no math class ever.  :svengo:

 

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by SarahW

[SarahW]

Rekenwonders from Bazalt is Singapore Math in Dutch

Rekenmeesters is supplemental math for stronger students

Rekentijgers idem

Somplextra and Somplextra plus is 'different' math

 

You might want to take a look here:

http://www.hoogbegaafdvlaanderen.be/06_HB_op_school/materiaal/rekenen.html

 

In Dutch, you can better be gifted in Math then in Language Arts ;)

Nevertheless it might be possible it is still to easy for him.

 

This is an average grade 7 mathtext :

http://www.wageningse-methode.nl/methode/het-lesmateriaal/?S=x1hv

 

 

Well, we are now in November, and CP started doing Rekentijgers today!  :thumbup1:

 

He was nearly done with the Groep 8 book, he had started the last unit, but then he said that he was told he wasn't going to do it anymore. And when I picked him up today he said he was given a new book called Rekentijgers. So...maybe they were just waiting for their order to come in. We had already scheduled a parent-teacher conference for tomorrow to ask what they were planning on doing with him for math, but now we know, I guess.

 

He said that Rekentijgers was a bit tough, so I guess he won't be flying through it. He didn't notice which groep level book he got though. I looked up samples of the books, and noticed that the sample of Groep 8 has very simple intro work on binary. He's already done binary in BA (and he says he knows "all about" binary and other base systems), but at least it's something other than Find-the-distance-to-three-friend's-houses. And he gets to practice his Dutch, so....

 

He's now complaining that the rest of the school day is so boring and easy and how doesn't learn anything new, even in the taal and spelling lessons. His Dutch skills have improved quite a bit. I'm thinking we should ask if he can move up to the mixed groep 6/7 class after Christmas. Then maybe next year he could move to Groep 8. That'll be a one year skip, but relatively seamless.

 

There's a vwo+ school nearby(ish) which runs a hoogbegraaf pull out program once a week for Groep 8. And they also do (free!) gifted testing for prospective students. We're going to talk to them next week and I'll run this grade skip idea by them as well.

 

I looked at the Havo3 book again, and disregard my previous post - it confused me because it brought up tan, but it was really just identifying a side in teaching the Pythagorean theorom. (Nifty, though, why call it a, b, or c if you can just start talking about tan?). Anyways, yes, he could probably do the whole book now.

 

Thinking thinking thinking, decisions decisions decisions....

[RootAnn]

I love how you are keeping us up to date. Thanks for the latest (good) news! That's great about his Dutch improving!

[SarahW]

Just a funny - 

 

Dh and I asked CP is there was anything he wanted us to ask his teacher about before our meeting. CP immediately said "I know! A better chair. I need one with a soft cushion on it. And a different back, maybe one of those that wiggle back and forth. And if I can change how high it is that would be great, too!"

 

:smilielol5:  Someone's been spoiled by homeschooling.

 

No, in school you don't get to pick yourself a new chair. Sorry. 

 

 

On the plus side, his teacher sees his gifted/ADHD 2e issues very well. Some of the other teachers have a hard time seeing it (they just see his vague distant look, and his general slowness and refusal to pay attention to the particulars). So I'm not sure it would be good to move him up to another class and leave her behind. She's trying hard to accommodate him, and teach him discipline to show what he knows. And he needs to work on his Dutch a bit more, especially spelling. But everything else is going well. (Brag alert: he got a 10 in history for this quarter. That did surprise me, since that was one subject he grumbled about and we hardly ever got to!).

 

 

[luuknam]

On the plus side, his teacher sees his gifted/ADHD 2e issues very well. Some of the other teachers have a hard time seeing it (they just see his vague distant look, and his general slowness and refusal to pay attention to the particulars). So I'm not sure it would be good to move him up to another class and leave her behind.

 

Do the teachers move up with the kids in his school or not (I know in some schools they do, but in most don't)? Because if not, you'd have her for only another half a year anyway, in which case I'd probably be more inclined to consider moving him up to where he'd be age-wise (he was held back one year because of the language barrier iirc, right?)

[SarahW]

Do the teachers move up with the kids in his school or not (I know in some schools they do, but in most don't)? Because if not, you'd have her for only another half a year anyway, in which case I'd probably be more inclined to consider moving him up to where he'd be age-wise (he was held back one year because of the language barrier iirc, right?)

 

 

It is a small school, so the teachers shift around quite a bit, I think, especially if they end up making a mixed groep. So I'm really not sure whether he would have her again or not. 

 

It's more that she can see what he is capable of, whereas other teachers at the school don't. Like yesterday she gave him the Groep 8 CITO for math, and the groep 8 teacher was commenting that it was taking him a while (he was doing it in the hallway, which is more of the flex meeting point for the upstairs classes than just a hallway) and the teacher assumed it was because the test was too hard for him. Well, she went over, saw that he had simply dumped the test to write and solve his own long division problems, and demanded that he finish the test within 15 minutes. After some whining, he got it done in 5 (and passed). So many of CP's teachers do what the other teacher did, and just assume that his refusal to work means that he's not that smart, but she sees what's going on and calls him on his BS, so at the moment I'm loathe to give that up. At least until we have some documentation.

 

But yes, he should should move back up, at least to his age groep, eventually. I don't think Rekentijgers is going to hold him as long as the school is hoping. I don't see him staying in a holding pattern for math for the next three years. I'm formulating plans for working on his spelling skills. And I think when we talk to the high school next week I'll ask their thoughts about accepting him with still-developing Dutch skills. My feeling is that when he starts translating Latin into Dutch in vwo that will also improve his language skills. I think that that idea might sound crazy, but for a gifted(?) kid it might be just the thing? 

[eternalsummer]

ime teacher is more important that almost anything in a b&m school

[luuknam]

It is a small school, so the teachers shift around quite a bit, I think, especially if they end up making a mixed groep. So I'm really not sure whether he would have her again or not.

 

Could you ask her whether there's any chance of her teaching a 7/8 group next year?

[Loesje22000]

My feeling is that when he starts translating Latin into Dutch in vwo that will also improve his language skills. I think that that idea might sound crazy, but for a gifted(?) kid it might be just the thing?

It does not sounds crazy to me, and is the reverse way of what we are doing.

Translating Greek into English, is very good for dd's English :)

French is connected to both here: Dutch and English

German is linked to Latin and Dutch in our house.

[SparklyUnicorn]

frustrating!

 

He's fortunate to have parents who are so on top of it for him. 

 

 

[TKDmom]

Shamelessly lurking :lurk5:

Any updates?

[SarahW]

No real updates...

 

Though I'm not sure how well the Rekentigers book is going. The textbook company sells the book as "independent" which makes sense, the schools will not purchase it if it requires a separate teacher to present it. Word on the street, though, is that asking a kid to do it independently is a bit rough. Plus, ADHD has the attendant EF, sequencing, and regulating-what-information-is-the-most-important issues. CP was never able to do BA on his own, he'd get himself so lost in his head he'd forget what the question was asking him to do. I suspect the same thing is happening with him "independently" doing Rekentijgers. Sigh.

 

In other news, there was a nice article in the local paper about gifted kids and gifted education. It helped the in-laws understand that gifted kids may learn quickly, but that doesn't make them good students. But now MIL is like, well, he can just get once-a-week enrichment at his school, that will solve all the problems! Eh, I don't know about that. And CP's school is too small to offer that anyways. Though we will ask is they are thinking of forming a group, or what schools in their organization offer enrichment (there's school choice here, so if at all possible we would like to stay within the same group of schools, but preferably without driving all over the county).

[JohannaP]

Just as a coincidence: I went to school in Groningen and Drenthe, and moved to the USA after graduating college. My teenage years were spent in a rural community - biking 20 km (one-way) to and from school. In elementary school I was quite underchallenged, but a new world opened at Gymnasium. I loved learning languages, and have especially fond memories of my Greek (and Latin) teachers. Feel free to send me a PM if you have questions. Several of my friends in The Netherlands have experience advocating for their gifted (and ADHD) kids. Good luck in your journey! It sounds like you are being quite successful in getting things accomplished for your son!

[SarahW]

Just as a coincidence: I went to school in Groningen and Drenthe, and moved to the USA after graduating college. My teenage years were spent in a rural community - biking 20 km (one-way) to and from school. In elementary school I was quite underchallenged, but a new world opened at Gymnasium. I loved learning languages, and have especially fond memories of my Greek (and Latin) teachers. Feel free to send me a PM if you have questions. Several of my friends in The Netherlands have experience advocating for their gifted (and ADHD) kids. Good luck in your journey! It sounds like you are being quite successful in getting things accomplished for your son!

 

Hi Johanna!

 

Welcome to the boards. There's quite a few Dutch speakers here. And me, who just lives here. En ik ken een heel klein beejte nederlands.  :leaving:  :cool:

 

The streaming in secondary gives a lot of options for students of different abilities and interests. But the elementary.... I don't know. 

 

DH and I did go to the info evening for the nearest secondary with a "talent stream" program. It was really interesting, and very promising. DH wanted to email the lady who did the talent stream presentation to ask if she had any advice for our situation, but then chickened on it since CP's not groep 8, or even 7. Well, yes, but..... So, yes, a general question - just how odd is it to contact the secondary school "early," even in an odd situation? I tend to be a bit pushy for these rural northerners, and try to sit on my hands. But it's making me antsy.   

 

Prettige sinterklaasdag!

[JohannaP]

Thanks for the reply SaraW,

 

I wish I could advice you on contacting the secondary school. I know "back in the day" when I was young it was not something normally done. But hey, special kids need special considerations. It might actually turn out to be really useful. Good luck with your educational adventures!