What's normal for 9th grade student in regards to organization and work effort?

[Tess in the Burbs]

I'm hoping to get an idea of what your 9th grade boy student looks like.  If you have modeled organization over the years has your student figured out a way to organize themselves?  If you set up a model for them have they followed it?  We homeschool, so I'm not asking how kids who go to school handle it.  Specifically looking for the homeschool boy about age 15 and how it looks in your home in regards to school work and organization.  While I have tried to push into independence and letting my boy pick subjects and plan his week out, it's not working.  

 

I'm sitting here going through work from today and I'm just about to cry.  There are piles of paper by his desk.  Nothing in the notebook for the class it belongs.  Papers all over the desk, none from the same subject.  I just went through his work for today.  Handwriting so bad I can't read a lot of it.  Many misspelled words.  Not every assignment is finished. Most questions for science require some thought, but he put down 1 thing when it's looking for 5-7 items.   In fact, none are finished.  Everything has a little bit more to do.  

 

He had an online class until 9:30am.  At 11:30am he went to do lunch for an hour.  At that point he had looked at math and we had talked about 2 problems.  He didn't do them.  We discussed them.  He wasn't doing math for 2 hours. He was in the bathroom a good 45 min.  And the math discussion was less than 20 min.   He worked from 1-2:30 on everything else for today.  Hence the lack of anything being done completely. 

 

 

I'm thinking I shouldn't need to sit in the room for 6 hours a day to keep him on task.  However, me leaving the room leaves the mess I'm now sitting in.  He's at the library for the next hour with friends.  I have to go over this work when he returns and he probably has another hour of work minimum to finish today.  Not really doing it all, but getting to the point it's manageable the rest of the week.  

 

Help.  What is normal for this age? He's not an organized kid(his room has always been a disaster).  I bought notebooks for every subject.  He has a 3 hole punch...but apparently lacks the ability to use it.  I am tired of nagging how to do school.  What to have out for each subject.  Where to look for the schedule.  Today he had me write his schedule out.  I wrote history, lesson 5.  He has a detailed schedule in the notebook.  Which lists 5 things to do for lesson 5.  He did 2 of the 5.  I'm so frustrated.  I feel like I have to hold his hand every.step.of.the.day. 

 

If he didn't have life threatening allergies I would seriously consider some summer military camp to push him into better organization.  I've never found a place that could take him....  

 

Give me your best advice for how to put him on a better organizational track.  I used to think going to PS would help...he would have to figure it out.  But seriously, at this point I feel like middle school would be a better starting point it's that bad in the way of organization and getting things done.  What do you suggest to get him on a better track?  I know you all talk about brain fog at this age.  He's definitely growing super fast right now.  He's always been a little late on the growth spurts for his age...but it's here now.  Will he suddenly put it all together in another year?  Or do I need to sit back down and go over how to work through his daily assignments?  

 

 

 

[HomeAgain]

During disorganized times we tightened the reins a bit. 

 

Morning meeting - HE is responsible for writing down the to-do list and organizing it into a schedule.

 

Work is checked/handed in before lunch.

 

Work is checked before going anywhere, and the ability to leave is dependent on that work.

 

Other than that, I would specifically ask him how he is going to handle X or offer tips in the form of support questions ("That's cool.  Are you going to set your alarm for that or did you find a better way?").  I made him set weekly goals and break them out day by day (gone over in morning meeting to make sure he could add them in)

 

By 15 mine was................better.  By 17 he's pretty good.  They grow up.  Eventually. :lol:

[freesia]

We need to meet daily to keep him on track. Some of his assignments are weekly, some are daily (mainly the online classes and math). I look over and see that he's split the weekly work by day. I have to check that the daily wok is done daily. All work that isn't done, is finished at night or on Saturday.

 

My Ds needs to do all work in spiral notebooks or it is a mess. I take are of filing papers.

 

I would love to say that I don't supervise most work time--but I do, particularly if computer use is involved. I am hoping to back off a bit this year--but we will see.

[Paige]

It is normal for them to be terrible at it unless they are born with a personality that cannot stand a mess.

 

I have a 15yr old too and he is going to require a lot of help getting it together. I think organization for most kids is a skill they develop when they can no longer function without it. It may take a series of painful learning experiences for them to really get it. For other kids, no amount of painful learning experiences will help because of ADHD or other similar brain issues, and they will need a lot of hand holding forever, medication, or simply will not succeed. 

 

My DD (12) on the other hand, will never need to be taught anything about organization because she already drives me crazy by being too uptight about it! I hope DS will be one of those who become motivated when it is necessary.

 

As a homeschooler, it can be harder for kids to feel the necessity of organization because it is easy to accommodate mistakes. I think homeschool kids who otherwise would have been motivated at younger ages to get organized can be a little delayed in this area. I know my DS is!

[freesia]

If it encourages you at all my brother was/ is a disaster when it comes to organization--crumbled papers at the bottom of backpacks--no putting a thing in notebooks--crazy disorganized. Somehow he got it together enough to get into Yale, graduated with honors in a double major, graduate Yale Law and now has a successful law practice ( and an awesome secretary and wife who help him). So all is not lost! One step at a time.

 

eta: typos

Edited August 30, 2016 by freesia

[SebastianCat]

My DS is 14, in 9th grade, and is very disorganized.   It drives me nuts because I'm ultra-organized - and I think I'm partially to blame for his lack of organization because it was always easier for me to just do things for him when he was younger, and he never had to keep up with his stuff or have the opportunity to fail. 

 

Homeschool Planet is our friend.   I model good organizational skills by providing a daily assignment list, and he models good organizational skills by being accountable to turn in his work every single day.    No phone or outside activities (except for co-op classes) until everything is checked off for the day.   If he needs a reminder to practice guitar every day, I have him put it as an assignment into Homeschool Planet.    One of his assignments every Friday after our co-op is "put next week's Chemistry assignments into the computer," and another assignment each Friday is, "file your school paperwork into binders."   The fact that each assignment needs to be checked off keeps me accountable to keep him accountable.

 

When we aren't dealing with school but have a lot of activities or things to do, I will frequently sit down with him at the beginning of the day and ask him to make a list of everything he needs to do that day.   Then I ask him to prioritize or label things that have a specific time - like if cross country practice is at 6:30, what time do you need to get yourself a snack?   Then I let it go, and (try my best to) keep my mouth shut.    

 

We've been trying this for almost a year and I do see glimpses of progress and maturity.   

[hollyhock]

Honestly, I have no idea how organized my 14yo is. I still write all of his assignments in his planner myself. To his credit, he does all the things I put on the list (occasionally with less effort than I would like) and when he's finished, he sticks all of it into my "hand-in box" so that I can mark it. Also, all of his school books are in one cubby shelf in our school room and they generally stay there so he doesn't have much experience having books all over the place/having to organize his stuff that way. I do plan on helping him become more independent but I foresee it being a very gradual process that I may only start next year. 

 

All that to say, OP, that I'm not even trying all the things you are yet. But he is my oldest, so I don't know what I'm doing. :)

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I realize this is very frustrating for you.  Please understand that staying organized may be exceedingly difficult for your son because his brain simply does not process the information in a way that is conducive to being organized.  Not everyone is intuitively organized or learns organization skills through example.  Some people need a VERY structured environment, with a lot of external supports.  Eventually they may learn how to create their own external supports (which is what I do).  Your son may be one of those.  Or he may just need more time for his brain to mature.  This is honestly pretty common for this age group.  You might read Smart but Scattered and ADD Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life (regardless of whether he is ADD or not) to help understand your child and help him to help himself.  Both of those books have some great ideas for assisting with this.  This is a really important life skills hump that may take a LOT of targeted assistance from you to make progress in.

 

FWIW, I do not do well with organization if I am working by myself unless I create external scaffolding.  I use alarms on my phone, checklists, calendars, lists on the Fridge, etc.  And I try to establish a routine  because without a routine I can easily lose track of what I need to do.  It took years for me to be able to do these things on my own.  Being in public school helped because my day was structured and scaffolded.  Homework was an issue but I had friends who helped remind me when things were due and I had a teacher for a mother so she helped out as well.  College was hugely challenging.  I had to find ways to set up scaffolding.  I would have friends come by to check and make sure I was studying or writing my paper or whatever.  Eventually I got quite good at staying organized, but only after a LOT of work on my part to get there and finally reaching a point in brain maturity where I recognized where my weak areas were and that they had to be addressed and HOW to address them.  

 

Another thing I need is interaction with people on a regular basis.  Without that interaction I find it really rather depressing and harder to keep on task.  If I am interacting with others, though, I tend to stay more focused.  Perhaps your son does not do as well functioning mostly on his own?  

 

Here is a link to the books.  FWIW, nagging never helped me.  It only made me feel bad about myself.  Targeted instruction and scaffolding, with everything broken down into smaller pieces, and establishing a very structured routine were what helped me.

 

https://www.amazon.com/ADD-Friendly-Ways-Organize-Your-Life/dp/1583913580

 

https://www.amazon.com/Smart-but-Scattered-Revolutionary-Executive/dp/1593854455/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472525285&sr=8-1&keywords=smart+but+scattered

 

Hugs and good luck.  I hope you find something that works for both of you.  Best wishes.

[OneStepAtATime]

Also, you say his spelling and his hand writing are bad.  Is this new?  Or has his handwriting and spelling always been rather bad?  Might he need some targeted help in these areas?  Does he know how to type?

[Reefgazer]

DS is only 11 (soon to be 12), but when he goes into this mode (because he doesn't like school and doesn't care about the work), I make him re-do, or finish, everything he was supposed to accomplish and didn't.  I also sit with him and give him lots of hand-holding and assistance, because he may truly not know how to handle the work.

[Haiku]

My kids are in 9th and 8th grades. Things don't get organized unless I literally oversee (as in stand over them and see) it happening. I gave up on the idea of "make sure all your stuff is where it needs to go and your materials are put away" independent approach to ensuring organization. I now have a daily checklist that the kids must go over with me, demonstrating that things have been completed and stored in the correct places.

 

I think that when a student is working fairly independently, they lack the influence of peers all doing the same thing in terms of filing their work and storing their materials. Also, teachers don't give kids lessons and then walk out of the room. If they did, chaos would erupt. After talking to many parents, I came to realize that it was my expectations, and not my kids' behaviors, that were out of whack. I don't always do what I am supposed to do. I dawdle, and I leave things unfinished, and I am sometimes sloppy, and I'm not really a very organized person. My role is to teach my kids how to do these things, not to expect them to just do them.

[Wendy Inman]

I agree that most teens just don't have the ability yet. And I also believe that organization needs to be taught. I am ultra-organized and never needed to be taught, so that was a hard lesson for us to learn.

 

I highly recommend SWB's lecture called Teaching Students to Work Independently. It goes step by step through every year and what should be taught at each grade. Certainly we had to back track and pick up some skills I had not taught him. Fyi, she does address the notebook organization thing. She says to begin in the 7th grade to have them store their own papers. But make it easy for them. Very clearly labeled bin to put papers or for us, I had him just put the papers in the front of the correct binder. Eventually we worked up to getting them in the proper place within the binder.

 

At this point, we sit down Sunday evening and together figure out the week's assignments and put them in the planner for the week. Basically I am modelling the behavior for him, hoping one day (by college?! LOL) he can do it on his own. For things like reading time, and even chores sometimes, he would "forget" so we started setting alarms instead of me nagging. That helped TREMENDOUSLY!!

 

And I have the same issue with not wanting to sit with him for 6 hours but I feel my son is getting distracted and taking too long for most things. No solution to that yet. SWB recommended setting timers, like if this subject should take 1 hour, set the timer and see how far they get in the hour... then address the problem.

 

Anyway, don't feel alone... I am sure there are lots of us with 9th grade boys in the same boat!! :)

[ondreeuh]

I have a 15 yr old, who I think is in the range of normal (I hope so!).

 

We are continuing a system we have used for years, so he is accustomed to it. I usually choose materials that have worksheets because grading/correcting notebooks is so much harder for me. So for math, I use programs that have a selection of problems on a worksheet - he does the work in a notebook but writes his answer on the worksheet. For science, I use a program that has daily quizzes. I am experimenting with having him answer the end-of-lesson questions in his own notebook and then checking his own answers, but I think it will not be enough at this point for him to really self-correct. He has the integrity to do it, but not the maturity to make sure he really learns the material. For geography, he is writing his answers in a notebook but I'm about to switch to printing out worksheets that ask the same questions. It's honestly as much for my benefit as his. Now for LA, in the past we used MBTP which had worksheets and graphic organizers. This year we are using a PS textbook that is basically an anthology of short stories. We tried using a Learning Springs guide (basically a list of questions to answer) and it was a mess. I printed selected teaching materials for the lessons, which include graphic organizers, vocabulary work, and questions.

 

He has a tabbed binder with a chapter or unit's worth of work in each subject. He takes pages out to work on them, turns them in to me, and then puts them back in the notebook about 50% of the time. If he has more than a couple days' worth of papers on his desk it becomes quite a mess.

 

Someday I will need to plant an acre of trees to make up for all of the worksheets, but I have to be realistic about what both he and I need to be successful. And I just can't keep up when I have to decipher handwritten notebooks.

[MerryAtHope]

My oldest used workboxes throughout high school for just this reason. One box (or in our case, drawers in a rolling cart) equals one subject. The folder, notebook, any extra items like a calculator or protractor, books etc... that need to be used for that subject all go together in one box. The student completes that box and then puts everything back in the box before getting out the next box. It really cuts down on lost or missing items, and even if the papers aren't in the folder, they are at least in the box. When you go over that subject with your son, you have him put the papers into the folder. 

 

A daily meeting time (to make sure everything was done and to model how to use any organizational tools) is crucial to instilling good habits. If you want him to know how to use a planner, you're probably going to have to do that daily--have him write in it daily, have him look in it daily--this won't seem normal or natural to him, and you'll have to make it part of your meeting time until he starts to realize that he needs to do that. 

 

I didn't work on having mine plan his week until senior year--he just wasn't ready before then. When he does plan it, you'll need to walk through that with him too--have him come up with a plan, but then he has to write it down AND show it to you. You may need to tweak it--walk through any needed changes and why with him. Gradually ask more questions that highlight issues with his plan, rather than simply re-planning it for him--you want him to gradually learn how to process and trouble-shoot--but always presenting that revised plan that he came up with to you. Don't just assume he's planning it, he's got it--and conversely don't keep doing it all for him--gradually turn it over but be his accountability partner/coach through the process. 

 

My son's freshman year we actually had two meeting times--doing just one per day was too overwhelming with all that we needed to go over. We did a morning time and an afternoon time. 

 

With not finishing the science questions, you may have to model that together too. First, have him give answers orally, and you write out what he says. Show him what it *should* look like when he's finished. Have him aim for that when he does the next set of questions. You may need to help him learn to flesh out his answers when he writes too little. We started orally with me modeling the writing (because writing was a huge struggle here), and gradually turned more back over to him as he saw what was required. 

 

We continued remedial spelling instruction into high school. If spelling is a huge struggle, you may want to incorporate ways to work on that (we had been using AAS, so we continued that until done). You can do things like have him keep a tricky words list and spend 10 minutes a day reviewing those, and/or using that list to check his papers before turning them in. You may also want him to take a separate day to edit work as needed. 

 

For things like his planner, instead of writing it for him, show him where to find the answer and then have him write it for himself. I would do this every day--show him where on the materials you use that he can find what's next, and then have him write it out. If history lesson 5 includes several things to do, I would have him write at least 1-2 words for each thing--maybe: read, map, answer questions--or whatever. Write each on a separate line. He can check off each that he does. That way he won't see "history lesson 5" and just think "read" and forget the rest. 

 

I know all this is time-intensive! BTDT with a student who really struggled with this. But it's worth it. He's going to the local CC now and I have almost zero involvement in his scheduling (I only ask about his plans when I know he's going to want my help with editing a paper or assignment, and I might have a scheduling conflict). He's ahead of where I was when I started college, that's for sure! 

 

One last thought--how many days each week are as busy as today (with an online class, an afternoon outing with friends etc...)?  For students who really struggle with organization like this, having lots of outside things to do really makes it hard for them to juggle. As much as possible, limit school-day interruptions to help him learn how to stay on track. 

[Miss Mousie]

For us, 9th grade (last year) looked a lot like yours.  DS was 14 for most of 9th grade, and now, at 15 and a few weeks into 10th, things have improved tremendously (but still aren't "perfect").  Part of the solution, I think, was routine (putting everything away when he's finished, using a planner); part was telling him 1000 times what I wanted and pointing out which bits of his work met that expectation and which bits didn't (usually about answering written questions fully, showing the steps in math, that sort of thing); and the largest part had to be a step up in maturity.  He still has foggy brain, but he seems either more able or more willing or both to overcome it himself.

 

It was so much easier for him to stay on task and complete work when I was nearby compared to when I was at work.  But I think it was to his advantage to have to deal with both circumstances nearly every day.  But, that said, we checked in several times every day, and still do.  There's no way I'd expect him to complete the week's (or even the day's) work on his own with no overseer along the way.  I'm hoping we can get there before graduation day, but there is more work to do in between to make that happen.

 

For the record, he was in PS through 7th grade.  They expected the kids to use planners starting in ... I think it was 3rd grade.  My kid didn't get it AT ALL.  He was often in trouble for planner-related "offenses."  And by the time he left 7th grade little had improved.  I don't think I performed any sort of magic to wake him up to the system; I think he was just finally understanding why, when and how to use the tool.  And he happened to like the particular planner I bought, which may have helped too!

 

To answer your questions:

 

 

Will he suddenly put it all together in another year?  Or do I need to sit back down and go over how to work through his daily assignments?  

 

Yes to the second question - probably many more times than you can currently fathom.  And if you do that, then maybe the answer to first question will also be yes - except that it won't be "suddenly."

 

There were TONS of frustrations at my house last year.  I tried to cling to the times of happy connection to get me through, and I'm glad I did.  Like I said at the beginning of this post, we are only a few weeks into 10th grade, and while things are greatly improved, I'm not expecting smooth sailing from here on out.  I'm trying to stay realistic.  But it is SO nice to have so many more happy connections to keep us afloat.

 

Hugs and good luck!  Keep hanging on!

 

[mjbucks1]

((Hugs to you))  I think every year I read a similar post about 15 year old boys...lol!!  It is normal, but none the less frustrating.  During my oldest son's freshman year we had multiple talks on staying on task and getting work completed.  His desk was always a mess, but did become somewhat better by the time he was a senior (last year).  He does not organize the way I would, but he now does what works for him.  I always expected homework to be completed before any "fun" activities.  I also made sure he knew that when things were not organized it made it more difficult for me to grade his work.  I do wonder what his desk looks like now that he is away at college!!!  I know it is frustrating, but keep working with him until he is producing the work he needs to be doing.  There is a great deal of maturity that occurs between 15 and 17!

 

Blessings!!

 

Michelle

[...................]

First ((HUGS))  IMO organization is usually something that is taught and practiced, and is not innate, especially in schoolwork.  our catholic and even public school teachers taught us how to organize.  In middle school all the teachers had very SPECIFIC ways we had to orgranize EVERYTHING down to the color of marble notebooks we were allowed to buy, the type of folders, and what papers we were to keep or throw away, and they were broken records, constantly reminding us how they wanted us to organize and following through with making us to do it. 

 

In 8th grade our nun allowed us to choose most of our own organization methods.  If there was a student unable (and there were 2 or 3 boys that I actually remember) she took over, had them after class, told them what she wanted, and followed through all year.  As far as I know both boys made it through high school alive. :)

 

So, organization is

 

A.  Taught

B.  Practiced.

C.  Enforced

 

and just like anything else, the more firm and consistent you are, the more success you will have.

 

So, you need to pick a system and enforce it, 100%.  As he gets older maybe he will successfully change or even make up his own system.  But he's not ready for that, so it is therefore your job to teach it, buy the materials, and inspect and enforce on a DAILY basis.  

 

You got this!!

 

[Professormom]

I could have written this post. Seriously. Verbatim.

 

This is EXACTLY where we are with my 9th grade guy. He is smart and funny and crazy and kind, but man, Elvis has left the building when it comes to organizing and outputting schoolwork.

 

I have been thinking about this all summer and this is what we are doing now:

 

- Handwriting: It WILL be legible or you will be writing it over. Not the sentence, the entire thing. Period. If I have to squint or guess, it is getting reworked. This is pure lazy. I have crap handwriting. It is the only class I ever got a B in (other than Home Ec;-) This is not the case of a mother with beautiful script setting expectations too high. Teens will often write messy and then go the "that's what it says" or "that's what I meant" route. It ends up being a crutch or excuse for shoddy work. Ask me how I know.

 

I don't care how he writes. I often use the old engineering style from the 70s with the small caps. He does need to communicate legibly and accurately in life. And he is not spending the bulk of his school time on the computer so he can type it. That would be a disaster in another form, lol.

 

- dawdling, half completed work, and cutting out early: We have enough activities and classes this year that our schedule needs to be like a well-oiled machine. I use Homeschool Tracker and tell him the actual times that he works on each class. Just like school, lol. Anything he isn't done with? It's homework. Which means if he wants tv, computer or time with friends, he needs to finish his homework first :D

 

While he has computer classes, I have changed my mind in the amount of schoolwork that would be computer-aided. I used to think that would increase substantially in high school. I have a different view on that now. Everything is internet connected. Way too much temptation in our house. Others may experience this differently, but self-regulation on the computer is not yet in the makeup of my kids.

 

I want them to learn, and to be able to articulate what they are learning clearly. I want them to be able to analyze and synthesize information and output the results clearly. Little of that is computer dependent. Pen and paper is our friend. Notebooks, flash cards, etc. If I have to go a little Luddite to ensure this developmental transition, so be it:-)

 

-output: Ug. This was a surprise for me. He is smart. He knows many things. He is quick and learns fast. However, because I always KNEW what he knew, I was not the stickler for output the way I have been for other things. This, I regret. The kid can write a relatively decent paper. But, seeing his idea of completed short answers made me feel like a serious homeschool mom loser. With a capital L.

 

I have made clear my expectations on what a REAL answer involves. Now, when he submits something substandard, he reworks it. Trying to get out of legitimate work often yields more work that could have been avoided. As adults, we know this. My son is learning it, lol.

 

I could go on and on. I think the main thing is that I needed to see where I was letting things slide and make some corrections.

 

One thing I have noticed is the tendency of some to apply pressure to other using moms in the timeline of independent, almost college levels skills. "Isn't your freshman scheduling his own week yet?" "Don't you have him grade his own work?" "Just let him self-regulate with computer time... He will get sick of it eventually." I have noticed this often comes from moms of girls. (No, this can't be summed up so simplistically in boy vs girl language. This is merely a generalization to make a different point.)

 

That point is that this struggle is VERY common, even among traditionally schooled kids. As someone else mentioned, they have more scaffolding in place. So, I see that need for scaffolding as one of my main goals/jobs for the year. I am doing some tomato staking. If he proves himself, I will set the stake a little farther. If he slides, I pull him back in. At the end of the year, I will reassess and enjoy the victories. The not-so-victories will get thrown into next year's goals.

 

I realized a beautiful thing when I read some advice from some of the wise ladies here who have btdt. Seeing this in freshman year is a gift. We have time to work our plan.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Professormom

[Professormom]

Oh, and all of this means that I have to be very timely with my grading and feedback which I may have been less that diligent (ahem, slacker) on in the past:-)

[kolamum]

Mine is closer to 16. When it comes to school he may leave things laying around, but in general he's good about putting it away. His art projects are another story.

However, we have a system which we've had in place for a long while. A desk is in his room, but he doesn't store school things in there. Each child has a a shelf in the library. It's a top shelf about chest high so they can easily reach it. Each shelf has 1-2 magazine holders which are where subject notebooks go, math books, etc. Literature books are stored in either a clear shoe box or a wicker basket on those shelves. They each also have a clear shoe box on the shelf for storing their pencil box{es}, Bible, clipboard, etc. Do the shelves always stay neat? No, but then I ask them to tidy them up because I tend to be a bit of a neat freak.

Writing assignments are done on the computer so there's no lost papers there. We print them out at the end of term or the best ones at the end of the year. We take work at the end of each 10 week session & we put it in a transparent coloured plastic envelope. Basically each child has one for the year that we stuff things into clipped together. It's saved until we get our next round of homeschool approval.

 

My 15 year old {he's closer to 16} also has his own planner. I do not hover or demand he stay on task. The planner is loaded with his work for the week & he knows it needs to be done. He leaves math on the table for correcting, brings in science notebooks to verify his answers for OYOs & does his quizzes online. He often comes forward to discuss his lit or asks questions, all though we may do a little more with that this year we'll see. Basically, he has full control of his education, & he's willing to do whatever work is required to maintain that control. He's learned that if he has control his days go much more smoothly & quickly compared to having to wait for me

My younger one is another story & a work in progress.. we're working with him this year to become as equally independent & take control of his learning. What I will say is that it's far easier for them to take control {in my minor experience} when they enjoy the studies then if they don't. My eldest enjoys his courses, he enjoys his curriculum, & he had a lot of say in what was picked. When I asked him if he wanted to change anything this year he was firm that he did not.

 

My youngest is harder because his drive & desire are not there. We had him shirt-tailing with the older for a little too long & it stole some of his joy for learning. My hope was with the new selections I made for him this year {he didn't want any say in it} that we'll rekindle some of that joy. He does understand that there are base things that must be completed if he wants privileges so that helps too. 

[Tess in the Burbs]

My oldest used workboxes throughout high school for just this reason. One box (or in our case, drawers in a rolling cart) equals one subject. The folder, notebook, any extra items like a calculator or protractor, books etc... that need to be used for that subject all go together in one box. The student completes that box and then puts everything back in the box before getting out the next box. It really cuts down on lost or missing items, and even if the papers aren't in the folder, they are at least in the box. When you go over that subject with your son, you have him put the papers into the folder. 

 

 

Okay, I finally see a purpose in workboxes.  I may get the magazine holders and organize it for him that way.  That is a great idea and may help control the papers....

 

For us, 9th grade (last year) looked a lot like yours.  DS was 14 for most of 9th grade, and now, at 15 and a few weeks into 10th, things have improved tremendously (but still aren't "perfect").  Part of the solution, I think, was routine (putting everything away when he's finished, using a planner); part was telling him 1000 times what I wanted and pointing out which bits of his work met that expectation and which bits didn't (usually about answering written questions fully, showing the steps in math, that sort of thing); and the largest part had to be a step up in maturity.  He still has foggy brain, but he seems either more able or more willing or both to overcome it himself.

 

It was so much easier for him to stay on task and complete work when I was nearby compared to when I was at work.  But I think it was to his advantage to have to deal with both circumstances nearly every day.  But, that said, we checked in several times every day, and still do.  There's no way I'd expect him to complete the week's (or even the day's) work on his own with no overseer along the way.  I'm hoping we can get there before graduation day, but there is more work to do in between to make that happen.

 

For the record, he was in PS through 7th grade.  They expected the kids to use planners starting in ... I think it was 3rd grade.  My kid didn't get it AT ALL.  He was often in trouble for planner-related "offenses."  And by the time he left 7th grade little had improved.  I don't think I performed any sort of magic to wake him up to the system; I think he was just finally understanding why, when and how to use the tool.  And he happened to like the particular planner I bought, which may have helped too!

 

To answer your questions:

 

 

Yes to the second question - probably many more times than you can currently fathom.  And if you do that, then maybe the answer to first question will also be yes - except that it won't be "suddenly."

 

There were TONS of frustrations at my house last year.  I tried to cling to the times of happy connection to get me through, and I'm glad I did.  Like I said at the beginning of this post, we are only a few weeks into 10th grade, and while things are greatly improved, I'm not expecting smooth sailing from here on out.  I'm trying to stay realistic.  But it is SO nice to have so many more happy connections to keep us afloat.

 

Hugs and good luck!  Keep hanging on!

I didn't know they pushed planners so young in school.  Interesting.  My younger girl has one and loves it.  So it's clearly not my boy's thing.  We will keep trying to find a way to help him organize all the info...I need to be open that it won't look the same as I would do. 

 

 

 

So, organization is

 

A.  Taught

B.  Practiced.

C.  Enforced

 

and just like anything else, the more firm and consistent you are, the more success you will have.

 

So, you need to pick a system and enforce it, 100%.  As he gets older maybe he will successfully change or even make up his own system.  But he's not ready for that, so it is therefore your job to teach it, buy the materials, and inspect and enforce on a DAILY basis.  

 

You got this!!

 

Thanks, this thread has been very helpful.  Today he was questioning why I had grammar review scheduled.  He wanted to push it off another day.  I finally had to say I just know better!  Later he realized math was less work today, but going to be a lot tomorrow and he understood now why I scheduled it that way.  Geez.  So this is great...we will keep on with our schedule, organize his desk/books better, and keep meeting often to see what needs improvement for him to understand/accept why it is the way it is. 

 

 

thank you all for your advice..I've got some great ideas now

[...................]

Yay!

[gstharr]

Try the Middle School Years, Michelle Hernandez.  Good info on study tips, note taking, and organization, and how to read a textbook, and the importance of reading ahead before the class.    I started using her suggestions a year ago with the 6th grader.  I've also given copies to struggling college students.