I want to scream right now b/c...

[shanvan]

an acquaintance is posting on Facebook for all the world to read how she does not understand why anyone would send their child to school when homeschooling is 100% FREE!  

 

Her Dd is enrolled in their state virtual school through k12.  Their books and supplies arrived today, I guess.  I am dumb.  I tried to explain how k12 works.  She asked me if maybe there just aren't enough kids in my area.  Again, I tried to explain, b/c, again, I do not seem to learn my lesson and I keep trying to educate people.  Apparently this person does not understand that there is a whole world full of homeschoolers doing their own thing.

 

ETA: It is bothering me b/c of all the money I've spent, and b/c I constantly have people assuming I am told by the state what to do and handed all the books.    

Edited August 29, 2016 by shanvan

[Jean in Newcastle]

You could explain to her that technically she is not homeschooling.  I am not dissing using virtual schools etc. but in her case it is an extension of public school. 

[regentrude]

This is stupid on so many levels that it is not worth getting upset about.

Of course homeschooling is not free. By far the greatest expense for the family is the loss of income of the parent who does the schooling - and these are sums that far exceed anything one could possibly spend on curriculum. Homeschooling is the most expensive form of schooling when you take that into account.

 

If one just thinks materials, yes, it is possible to homeschool almost without cost for materials/curriculum. Many of us do it.

 

Whether using a virtual school is even true "homeschooling" is something that can be debated.

 

But anyway, not worth spending any thought on.

Edited August 29, 2016 by regentrude

[SparklyUnicorn]

Not too many free things in this world.  What can ya do though.  She obviously is tickled pink by her arrangement or something.   LOL

 

In my state there are no free virtual academy options. 

 

 

[Guest]

Not too many free things in this world. What can ya do though. She obviously is tickled pink by her arrangement or something. LOL

 

In my state there are no free virtual academy options.

Check out BOCES. They were charged with developing virtual courses, so that all students would have access to AP courses, not just those in wealthy or Title 1 districts. To access, one does have to enroll as a public school student, but the district does get the bill, if it is a district willing to participate (mine does not).

[goldberry]

I don't care at all about the whole "what is a true homeschool" argument... but I would be totally ticked at the idea that all homeschool is FREE!  

 

Dang, I have spent SO MUCH on homeschooling...

[SparklyUnicorn]

Check out BOCES. They were charged with developing virtual courses, so that all students would have access to AP courses, not just those in wealthy or Title 1 districts. To access, one does have to enroll as a public school student, but the district does get the bill, if it is a district willing to participate (mine does not).

 

They have some virtual stuff, but all that has to be done at a school.  They have some alternative programs as well that are all done on computer, but again, at a school.  And generally these are for kids who are struggling in one way or another. 

 

They have some AP stuff at the local high school.  My kid has no interest in going to high school though.  He's enjoying his freedom too much!

[zoobie]

You could post this if you really want to drop a stinker. ;) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/10/31/study-on-online-charter-schools-it-is-literally-as-if-the-kid-did-not-go-to-school-for-an-entire-year/

[Bambam]

Our local state offered K12 clearly states that people choosing this option are NOT homeschooling. 

We had a friend do this option with her grandson (long story), and it was awful.

 

I hope your friend has better luck!

 

[MooCow]

Shoot....I was hoping this was a rant thread......

[SparklyUnicorn]

You could post this if you really want to drop a stinker. ;) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/10/31/study-on-online-charter-schools-it-is-literally-as-if-the-kid-did-not-go-to-school-for-an-entire-year/

 

Ouch!

[Guest]

I'd just tell her that is rather customize my educational choices and plan for each child and k12 isn't a good fit for that at all, which is why I neither use it not the public school. It's great she is happy with it though, really! I'd correct her on the free idea with an explanation of your district's student allotment, which pays for K12 is that is the program they're permitted to use by extension. Free is never free.

[DawnM]

Does she not have friends who send their kids to SCHOOL and there is no cost?

 

She just alienated most homeschoolers, all public and private schoolers, and all working moms.

 

Maybe she doesn't want friends anymore?

Edited August 30, 2016 by DawnM

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't care at all about the whole "what is a true homeschool" argument... but I would be totally ticked at the idea that all homeschool is FREE!  

 

Dang, I have spent SO MUCH on homeschooling...

 

I am not trying to make some kind of "what is a true homeschooler" argument.  I specifically said that I am not dissing people who are using virtual schools.  The point I was making is that those schools are only free (at least in my area) IF you are actually registered as a public school student.  Otherwise, you pay for the virtual programs. 

 

[goldberry]

Does she not have friends who send their kids to SCHOOL and it has nothing to do with cost?

 

She just alienated most homeschoolers, all public and private schoolers, and all working moms.

 

Maybe she doesn't want friends anymore?

 

This reminded me of something from a book I was reading last night.  First character had written something really insulting to the second character (via letter) and second character responded something like, "I am writing to tell you how happy I am for you.  Apparently you have so many friends you feel free to insult them without any fear of losing them."

 

;) 

[trulycrabby]

You could post this if you really want to drop a stinker. ;) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/10/31/study-on-online-charter-schools-it-is-literally-as-if-the-kid-did-not-go-to-school-for-an-entire-year/

Ohhh, that really is a stinker. :zombie: You are much too nice to be called Eville, but I did think about it for a second. :zombie:

[mamiof5]

What others think often doesn't bother me. The cost of homeschooling is between my dh, my wallet and myself. If someone specifically asks I don't mind, but whether they think it's free or not doesn't bother me. You might be better off letting it roll, she won't see your side if she doesn't want to.

[HS Mom in NC]

In my state online public and online public charter schools aren't legally recognized as homeschooling, they're legally recognized as public and public charter school, so I'd probably point that out (because so many people aren't aware of the difference and it's caused problems) then I'd point out that because of that, in my state, all homeschooling does cost parents because taxpayers don't fund homeschooling here like they fund online public and public charter schools. I'd also point out (for the sake of homeschooling PR and wanting to let her FB friends know not all homeschoolers are categorically anti-institutional schooling) that there are plenty of great reasons to send a child to school that would fall under a couple of main headings:

 

1. Neither parent wants to homeschool.
The reasons could be based on personality, educational philosophy, health issues and or financial factors to name a few.

 

2. Homeschooling isn't a good academic fit for their kid(s).
Just like institutional and online schools aren't a good fit for every kid.
 

As to your feelings about it, you have responded with relevant, accurate, helpful information but the person you were talking too wasn't listening.  You can be done now.  People who want to learn listen. She didn't listen because she doesn't want to learn anything about the wide world of homeschooling.  Go do something you really enjoy and don't let it bother you.

OP, I feel ya. People who adopt privately and internationally get that from people looking into the fostercare adoption option.  I've heard people actually say things like, "People who pay to adopt are idiots.  Why do that when fostadopt is free?" and, "Why bother spending money unnecessarily on something when you can get it for free?" As though cost is the only thing people should consider when it comes to huge life choices like adopting or preparing a child academically K-12 for adulthood. Sheesh! It should be noted I have heard people ask that question without judgement actually wanting to know, which is perfectly reasonable at not at all offensive.

Her obnoxious statement is just another example of, "Those who don't know don't know that they don't know."  If she had the most rudimentary knowledge of homeschooling on the whole or a concept of differentness in individuals and situations, she wouldn't make such a ridiculous statement.  She's outted herself as clueless.
 

[Scarlett]

As the mom of a k12'er through state charters, (on our 11th year) a couple of comments....

 

1) my son has excelled with k12. Apparently he might have done even better in public school?

2) free is never free.....there is still the cost of not working so I can be with him.....not now of course because he is dual enrolled and driving himself and all...but for many years I was home with him.

3) why is OK not mentioned as one of the charter school/k12 states.? That is really confusing to me.

4) I am ok with not being a technical homeschooler. We got to school at home.

5) I do believe there is a type who uses the free k12 / charter....maybe that leans toward not so great results.

6) there are many people who believe that to homeschool you are required to go through some sort of program....state or not.....I can usually make them understand by saying independent vs, state run charter.

[HS Mom in NC]

As the mom of a k12'er through state charters, (on our 11th year) a couple of comments....

 

1) my son has excelled with k12. Apparently he might have done even better in public school?

 

 

Maybe, maybe not, but that's not what the article said. 

 

"Current online charter schools may be a good fit for some students, but the evidence suggests that online charters don’t serve very well the relatively atypical set of students that currently attend these schools, much less the general population."

 

It did point out that kids are doing doing just fine, but they were the exception, not the rule.  That isn't the same as saying a kid doing just fine in an online situation would do better in a regular ps classroom. They're making a general statement about this group as a whole doing badly but they also acknowledged that it's not true of every single kid there. 

[Lisa R.]

 I keep trying to educate people.  Apparently this person does not understand that there is a whole world full of homeschoolers doing their own thing.

 

ETA: It is bothering me b/c of all the money I've spent, and b/c I constantly have people assuming I am told by the state what to do and handed all the books.    

Why do you feel the  need to educate people? (Other than you own children, of course.) When I see people try and "educate" other adults, it can be as annoying as the person who is spouting misinformation. 

 

I think it's best to not give advice unless asked. If someone asks how you educate your children at home, I think it's great to give them as much information as they're interested in hearing. If people are genuinely interested, they're open to learning more about homeschooling. If they're stating factually incorrect information about a topic that has readily available information, they'll probably not pay much attention to someone giving factual information.

 

Act confident about your choice. Don't explain unless asked. This results in almost no drama or intrusion or irritation. 

[myfunnybunch]

Oh heavens, that's a lot of energy to waste trying to teach a pig to sing. ("Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." Just in case some folks haven't heard this one.) I'm not insulting the friend; I really mean the idea of trying to "educate" people about homeschooling. They really don't care.  :D  The ones who do care ask questions instead of putting obnoxious posts on FB.

 

So, she doesn't "get it" the way you do. Meh. Different strokes....she's excited about what she's doing and doesn't quite get how she's coming across. An internal eye roll and "Whatevs..." will save you time and energy.

 

I do that a LOT. :p

Edited August 30, 2016 by myfunnybunch

[EMS83]

It's only monetarily free.  She'll learn.  I have had friends (and have been this way myself) who just had to learn on their own.  Perhaps monetarily free is worth the K12 hoops.  We live in a fairly lenient state, so I just run down the law any time anyone asks specifically ("what about curriculum" or some such thing).  Beyond that I observe that children are smarter than we give them credit for, and ask how adults learn anything (in a rhetorical manner).

 

I typically don't explain much.  I've had too many "that's unhealthy" or "how can they learn anything" or "you can't possibly teach everything" conversations.  I never know who I'm dealing with when it comes up as chit chat, so I say little.  Now I know why homeschool moms I met as a new momma seemed so stand offish.  :D

[kiwik]

Maybe, maybe not, but that's not what the article said.

 

"Current online charter schools may be a good fit for some students, but the evidence suggests that online charters don’t serve very well the relatively atypical set of students that currently attend these schools, much less the general population."

 

It did point out that kids are doing doing just fine, but they were the exception, not the rule. That isn't the same as saying a kid doing just fine in an online situation would do better in a regular ps classroom. They're making a general statement about this group as a whole doing badly but they also acknowledged that it's not true of every single kid there.

The NZ government, having pushed interactive group learning for years, as just floated the idea of online charters so we have been discussing this. I suspect they work for parents who would be willing and able to homeschool. People who think they can just plonk the kid in front of the computer and ignore their education rather than send them to school and ignore their education are unlikely to have a good result unless they have an exceptional student with good EF.

[HS Mom in NC]

A friend at church (who homeschooled her kids until they went to high school) works for one of the larger online public charter schools here.  She told me there are distinctly different groups of students who enroll.  Group A are kids who know exactly what they want to do after high school and want to get to it as soon as possible.  They enroll online, get everything done well and ahead of schedule and graduate early.  Then they start their adult education right after.  Group B are kids like my niece who, because of personal issues didn't graduate on time (she got pregnant her senior year) so they're a semester or a year behind, but because they did well academically before their personal issues came up, they manage to get caught up in a short amount of time.  Group C are the bulk of the kids her company enrolls. They have not been academically solid before signing up for the online school and they don't do well after they sign up.  Here in the US high school is grades 9-12.  These kids are in grades 13-16, which basically a repeat of high school and many still don't graduate.  They don't follow up with the teachers online or by phone and they don't finish things. Group D are the handful of kids who just don't fit into any of the above categories.

I suspect Kiwik is onto the reason.  If a parent isn't really engaged with the kid's academic situation in online schooling the only chance the kid has to do well is if the kid is self-motivated and academically inclined.  We know this is true in institutional and homeschool situations, so why wouldn't it be true in an online situation? Kids who are unmotivated and don't do well academically have nothing going for them if their parent doesn't have a realistic expectation of and willingness to do what they need to do to keep their child on track. There is it again, one of the biggest obstacles in education; the low quality parent.  We don't know how to make up for them in institutional settings or in homeschool settings yet.

[shanvan]

Popping back into this thread to clarify a little.  I would never give the original fb poster advice about how to homeschool and that is NOT what I did.  My post (on fb) was intended to correct her information that homeschooling with k12 is FREE for everyone.  I posted for the benefit of anyone reading who many consider homeschooling and in some ways for the benefit of the OP in case k12 ever does not work out for her in the future.  She will know there are other ways (even though I did not make any comments about those other methods).  I did not make any comments about the effectiveness or restrictive nature of K12.   I have no desire to justify my own educational choices.

 

I think K12 is working for them, and I think her Dd is self motivated.  I will find out more about them b/c we will be meeting at an event in the future, even though they live across the country.  I wanted to scream b/c it is frustrating when someone does not seem to want to know the facts.  It doesn't matter, I posted how the funding for K12 works and why it isn't free for everyone---and so did another acquaintance who also stated she is spending a lot on curriculum and classes, so I wasn't the only one.  It's out there for people to see, and that was my goal.  

[Guest]

Kinda like the ones that tell me I don't have to worry about the financial hardship of back to school shopping. Um...still gotta buy books and they sure aren't free.