Help? Takes forever to work

[sbgrace]

Please don't quote. I'm going to put a lot out there and if I didn't have experience with special needs and another child without anything like this, I'd probably assume I'm a horrible parent.

 

My son with special needs is 12. He has wanted to be increasingly independent over the last 6 months or so. 

 

Doing his math (CLE) is taking hours. I don't even know where to start.

 

Prior to this past odd number of months, he would do half his CLE, picking the quickest problems I'm sure, while he ate breakfast. Then I would sit with him with a white board and would finish CLE while he ate his breakfast. He's a very distracted/slow eater. I would also need to remind him to take bites. I can't describe how distracted/unfocused he is/you would have to see to believe.

 

Once he was close to finished his breakfast, I would give him his ritalin and we would work on the rest of the school together. He won't eat with ritalin, so getting that breakfast first is important.

 

Now he wants to do all his math on his own. It's taking 2-3 hours a day on average. I tried to have him do other things instead, but he insists math must be first, and our other subjects that are daily still require me anyway or aren't compatible with breakfast.

 

It's a combined issue of getting started in the first place and then staying focused. Each time he gets off focus it takes forever to get going. I think part of it is his brain, because he is able to get started and get things done when ritalin kicks in. But there is a behavioral component that is problematic. I noticed that crop up after we started ritalin, and he settles down and stops the problematic behavior once ritalin kicks in. He does things like, today, pretending his breathing was burping. Imagine the joy of continuous, drawn out burps. I think, though, the behavior is mostly just part of avoiding getting started combined with a lot of impulsivity and emotional immaturity.

 

I sent him to finish his math and breakfast in his room so the rest of us don't have to listen to him. He's still in there, happily chattering. His twin took about 25 minutes to do the same work. He's at, nearly, the 3 hour point. Breakfast is half done. Math is probably 3/4 done, so it's not that he's doing nothing. But what a waste of his time.

 

I have, several times, mentioned going back to me sitting beside him. He doesn't want to be a "baby" and is very resistant to my involvement. But I'm so frustrated with the waste of time and it really upsets me at some level that he's so different when he gets his ritalin. The doctor wants him to outgrow his dose for one thing, and he's hardly functional without it seems.

 I guess I could just not do school during breakfast so he could have ritalin no matter what he's doing. But eating takes so long, and he also doesn't want me encouraging/reminding him to eat.

 

He has ADHD, but also autism. Consequences don't seem effective with this kid. He's already lost his screens for the day before I sent him to his room to eat/work.

 

I'm so frustrated.

Edited August 29, 2016 by sbgrace

[Storygirl]

When we first started Ritalin for DS12, we found that the most obvious immediate academic improvement was his ability to accomplish his math (also CLE). I think if I were you, I might hold off on math and not try to do it during breakfast. Can you do a readaloud during that time, or have him listen to an audio book instead?

 

I realize you want to double up and get some schoolwork done while he is eating, but you might find that eating breakfast without schoolwork and then doing math later will actually end up being faster in the end.

 

We've also found that it takes about 20 minutes for DS's meds to kick in, and he can eat during that time, before he loses his appetite. Can you give the meds partway through breakfast, when you think he is about 15 minutes away from finishing? Then start math right after breakfast.

 

:grouphug:

[monstermama]

No experience, so just brainstorming here.

 

How long does the ritalin last once he takes it?  Is it possible that him taking it 2-3 hours later in the day is messing up his sleep schedule and then leading to the increased behaviors in the morning?

 

Do you think he'd be able to give any input (in the afternoon, after the ritalin's taken effect) into how to make the morning go smoother?  Something along the lines of "Breakfast needs to be eaten and math needs to be done by x time.  How can we make this happen?" or is it likely that he won't be able to remember/follow-through on that in the morning?

 

Kind of a weird thing, but I've found with my little guy that occasionally when he's having one of his "I'm too wriggly to sit still long enough to eat" days that letting him watch a 10-15 minute show while at the table means he'll mindlessly eat most of it while watching.  It's not ideal, but it might work if he doesn't have other issues with screens.

 

 

[Ravin]

My first question is, how is HIS attitude about how long it's taking? 

 

My DD gets completely overwhelmed if she perceives something is taking longer than expected. This is the reason online school was a disaster for her. We now allow her to self-pace; she is required to spend X amount of time on a subject, and not more unless she gets into a groove and wants to.

 

In your shoes, I would probably move math to AFTER breakfast and after the Ritalin has kicked in. We try and do math with DD when she is at her best; late morning is optimal for us, because her morning meds have kicked in and she hasn't gotten tired/fatigued/muzzy yet. Her one year in Brick and Mortar school was a disaster largely, I think, because they put her in a math class right after lunch, by which time she was exhausted and needed to be physically active to be able to pay attention at all (so she did well in dance and theater, which were after math, but math right after lunch? Bad idea).

[Hilltopmom]

All good advice above.

I'll add- perhaps trying a quicker & easier breakfast?: smoothie, granola bar, etc

 

have you tried setting a timer or time limit? As in, breakfast must be eaten in 30 min or by 9AM (or whatever), then meds, then math once they kick in

[AliR]

I showed this to DD who has a lot of similarities.  She said "What does he get out of by spinning out the math to take so long?".  Could it be that there is an element of putting off working on something that would come later?  For DD she would happily follow this tactic to avoid getting to writing.

[PeterPan]

Has ABA been on the table?  Can it be on the table?  I mean blanket/umbrella ABA as a description for gets you help from a behaviorist, gets you funding to get help. 

 

I can tell you that in your narrative I recognized things my dd does (clearly from the ADHD) and things that are more the ASD.  I think the ASD is ramping up the issues and making them hard to deal with, meaning you need an asd-specific solution.  And in our house, the solution to ASD-issues is ABA.  And I talk with people who have impressions of what ABA is, but who, when I describe what we're doing, really like what we're doing.  And we're getting results.  

 

So I would get some ASD-specific help.  

 

Or, the other way to think through it, mathematically, is that you have attention plus behavior, and even if they WEREN'T calling it ASD, the advice would STILL be to get help for the behavior.  Remember the research shows behavioral help plus meds, not just meds.  (technically it's behavioral before meds, but who's quibbling)  So no matter what you attribute it to, you're still back to getting behavioral help.

 

It's not you, and you're tapped out.  You're also at this crossroads, where you decide if you're going to walk down a path over the next few years where he solves things his way, or where you decide he solves them with more guidance.  Not that I've parented ASD teens.  I'm just saying I've done teen and can guarantee you it will only get harder.  I know how much more complex my dd got each year.  It won't stay the same.  So this is going to increase radically over the next 6 years, and you are either going to roll with it or redirect the river.  I'm not saying what path you have to choose on that, just saying that's why it feels like it's some horrific whirlpool, because it actually is that kind of choice.

[PeterPan]

For what to actually do on a practical level?  I can't fathom him working on the math without the meds.  I'm astonished you're trying.  He's being pretty rigid there.  That's something the ABA (umbrella term, again) could work on and maybe get more flexible.  Because it's really tanking him.

 

So as a practical matter, no math before meds.  And more structure.  Frankly, for things that are a pain the butt and not going well, I hand them to the ABA tutor and walk away.  And they get done.  In your life, that might be a good change.  Or, if you want that change, that would be a path to getting there.  They could problem solve this out and work on it, instead of it falling to you.  A woman can get broken trying to do everything.

Edited August 29, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Kanin]

I showed this to DD who has a lot of similarities.  She said "What does he get out of by spinning out the math to take so long?".  Could it be that there is an element of putting off working on something that would come later?  For DD she would happily follow this tactic to avoid getting to writing.

 

Well, that's a pretty perceptive question!  Good one. I'm going to start asking that more. I should probably ask why I never pay the bills on time, but always a few days late...  :huh:

[sbgrace]

Great thoughts. Thank you all--a lot to think about.

 

I think, partly, he knows that after his math and breakfast is done the ritalin will kick and we then try to power through his one on one with me work before it wears off and we have lunch. We get about 3 hours, though the end isn't quality/he's fatigued as it wears off. So, yep, he's maybe avoiding more than just math. I hadn't thought of that.

 

I have tried to talk to him while he's medicated. I think it would be ideal to problem solve this together. He often gets upset/emotional about the whole thing--he often regrets his starts to his days once the medicine kicks in, but then I'm talking to him typically on days when the mornings were particularly rough. Maybe I could try when we have a decent day. I think he's just as overwhelmed by it as I am.

 

We do, finally, have behavioral support services assigned--I'm crossing my fingers it actually happens. We've been planning to do social stuff, but I didn't think of asking her to work with this. I think I may do that instead when we start (Sept I hope). I think we have created a negative cycle.

 

I think those of you who mentioned not doing math during breakfast and without meds are correct. I have a plan for tomorrow. I am going to make breakfast school free. He can listen to music or an audio book. If he's done by 30 minutes, I'll let him watch cnn student news or something similar before starting school. As long as we can get breakfast in a reasonable time period, I don't mind not working through it. Hopefully a video will motivate him enough that he won't make eating last forever. I hope, also, he comes to realize he's going to have a lot more free time by finishing school faster.

 

Thank you all.

 

Edited August 30, 2016 by sbgrace

[Ottakee]

Have you tried a different medication, a different formula, or a second dose? That can make a huge difference.

 

We do Dexedrine at breakfast and noon and it is wonderful.

[kbutton]

Have you tried a different medication, a different formula, or a second dose? That can make a huge difference.

 

We do Dexedrine at breakfast and noon and it is wonderful.

 

 

I was wondering if you do meds twice or just once. We use methylphenidate twice. It's a BIG difference.