If you enjoy LCHF or keto eating...

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I'm looking into this diet/lifestyle to help control my PCOS and hypoglycemia symptoms.  On my normal diet, which is pretty healthy compared to a SAD, my blood numbers are all fine in all areas, but I do have issues that I can *feel* even if my blood looks good.  I'm also about 15-20lbs heavier than I'd like to be.  

 

Anyway, if you went this route, I have a few questions:

 

- If you decided to start with a ketogenic phase to adapt your body to ketone fuel, how long did you stay in it?  I'm not interested in staying in keto until I've lost 20lbs... I doubt that will be necessary.  But I do want to stay in long enough to make "normal LCHF" feel a bit indulgent.  lol.  

 

I like the carb curve from Mark's Daily Apple - though I probably need to scale down slightly because I'm only 5ft2in with an ideal weight between 115-120.

 

- Did you/ Do you enjoy the "fat bomb" type candies that are all over pinterest?  These look like a really great snack option, but I'm wondering if, mentally, they continue to contribute to sugar cravings.  

 

- How do you work your menu with your family?  Do you simply make an additional starch for the kids or something?  I've have no interest in putting my kids on any sort of carb restriction (they eat "healthy" carbs rather than junk most of the time) as I've got two who are borderline for growth factor insufficiency and so it would be a really bad idea to restrict their carbs in any way, yet I do want us all to sit down to meals together and for my eating choices to go mostly under the radar.   

 

- Once you are at your ideal weight, where do you try to keep your carb level?  Do you still keep a food diary, or can you do pretty well guesstimating throughout the day?

[Onceuponatime]

Hi, I am 5' 2" and weigh 123. Last year I weighed 133. I don't follow an official low carb high fat diet and I don't know anything about ketone fuel. However, I have a history of hypoglycemia and my physicals of the last few years showed my fasting blood sugars rising. My doctor just told me to reduce carbs. I went online and found formulas for recommended carbs by size and weight. I figured I should have no more than 150 carbs spread throughout the day. Then I kept track of every single thing I ate for two weeks and familiarized my self with where the carb heavy foods were. I found I had to reduce portion sizes of the grain products I usually ate and only take seconds of veggies. I also no longer ate any snacks after dinner. I lost 5 pounds but still felt off, especially mid morning. So I lowered my carbs to 100 by eliminating all carbs except fresh fruits, veggies, and nuts, before lunch. I lost a second 5 pounds and called it good. I eat this way all the time. My blood sugar returned to acceptable levels.

 

I don't count calories and I eat the fats that I want, usually real butter and olive oil. I eat all the protein and veggies I want, except for corn, and stop when I am satisfied. I avoid white flour, opting for whole wheat and oats for grains. I shift my daily carbs around and try to think ahead as needed, especially when I know I might be using most of them at one meal. I still allow myself to eat anything, if I really want it. I just reduce the size and adjust the rest of my day accordingly. I've learned to be very choosy about what I want to spend my carbs on. My go to occasional treat is a small cup of ice cream about 3 in the afternoon, that is a fat bomb. (Sometimes) I will also occasionally eat air popped popcorn with butter and Parmesan. 2 cups is a serving, my kids get the rest of the bowl. I snack on nuts a lot.

 

I don't eat diet foods or any artificial sugars. I get full much faster than I used to, and I try to pay close attention to that full signal. It can be very tempting when something tastes good to keep eating. The best defense is to set some of that delicious thing aside for myself, so that it can be eaten at another time. That way I don't feel deprived. It also helps to come up with standard choices for meals, so I am not wondering what I can eat. I'm not into working too hard to prepare special foods or snacks for myself.

 

I found my biggest culprit was the 2-3 cups of homemade hot chocolate I would drink every day. I hadn't realized that cow's milk is basically a sugar drink. I used to start my day with a bowl of cereal, with milk, and a cup of hot chocolate. (I don't drink coffee.) Now I have a piece of fruit and some version of eggs cooked in butter. I only drink water and unsweetened teas.

 

I know this is not exactly what you were looking for, but I thought I'd chime in since we are about the same size.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Hi, I am 5' 2" and weigh 123. Last year I weighed 133. I don't follow an official low carb high fat diet and I don't know anything about ketone fuel. However, I have a history of hypoglycemia and my physicals of the last few years showed my fasting blood sugars rising. My doctor just told me to reduce carbs. I went online and found formulas for recommended carbs by size and weight. I figured I should have no more than 150 carbs spread throughout the day. Then I kept track of every single thing I ate for two weeks and familiarized my self with where the carb heavy foods were. I found I had to reduce portion sizes of the grain products I usually ate and only take seconds of veggies. I also no longer ate any snacks after dinner. I lost 5 pounds but still felt off, especially mid morning. So I lowered my carbs to 100 by eliminating all carbs except fresh fruits, veggies, and nuts, before lunch. I lost a second 5 pounds and called it good. I eat this way all the time. My blood sugar returned to acceptable levels.

 

I don't count calories and I eat the fats that I want, usually real butter and olive oil. I eat all the protein and veggies I want, except for corn, and stop when I am satisfied. I avoid white flour, opting for whole wheat and oats for grains. I shift my daily carbs around and try to think ahead as needed, especially when I know I might be using most of them at one meal. I still allow myself to eat anything, if I really want it. I just reduce the size and adjust the rest of my day accordingly. I've learned to be very choosy about what I want to spend my carbs on. My go to occasional treat is a small cup of ice cream about 3 in the afternoon, that is a fat bomb. (Sometimes) I will also occasionally eat air popped popcorn with butter and Parmesan. 2 cups is a serving, my kids get the rest of the bowl. I snack on nuts a lot.

 

I don't eat diet foods or any artificial sugars. I get full much faster than I used to, and I try to pay close attention to that full signal. It can be very tempting when something tastes good to keep eating. The best defense is to set some of that delicious thing aside for myself, so that it can be eaten at another time. That way I don't feel deprived. It also helps to come up with standard choices for meals, so I am not wondering what I can eat. I'm not into working too hard to prepare special foods or snacks for myself.

 

I found my biggest culprit was the 2-3 cups of homemade hot chocolate I would drink every day. I hadn't realized that cow's milk is basically a sugar drink. I used to start my day with a bowl of cereal, with milk, and a cup of hot chocolate. (I don't drink coffee.) Now I have a piece of fruit and some version of eggs cooked in butter. I only drink water and unsweetened teas.

 

I know this is not exactly what you were looking for, but I thought I'd chime in since we are about the same size.

 

 

Thanks!  I think what you describe is close to what weight maintenance would look like for me, so it's good to read!  

[Soror]

I've done VLC twice. First time I don't remember any special treats, just low carb real food. I've never cooked VLC for the family my kids are also very small and I've never believed it to be optimal for kids to be VLC (even when totally drinking the kool-aid). I generally cook whole foods so I'll just take something out for me before adding stuff or keep all the parts separate. The second time I did do fat bombs and enjoyed them, I coached my dh through VLC and made him fat bombs regularly and he enjoyed them too. The fat bombs for me where a replacement of my beloved chocolate that I used to eat all the time. I didn't feel I had a problem overeating them or it leading to eating anything else higher carb. The first time I did VLC I can't remember how it went afterwards, I did it after baby #3 and I lost my baby weight by 4 months or something(which was a record for me).Second time I kept fairly low but then my thyroid crashed big time and I don't even remember what happened. I mean I didn't go back SAD. I've tended towards paleo for 11yrs or so now and have been strictly gluten free for 8 yrs.

 

AFA maintenance I would fairly regularly weigh myself and adjust the extras accordingly. I don't tend to ever stuff myself or eat a ton of junk food. Usually if I have some days overindulging in some treats then I'll back-up for a while. I think that is true irregardless of your eating method though. I've counted everything out at times but don't usually.  

Edited August 27, 2016 by soror

[Pegasus]

I eat LCHF. I don't concern myself with whether I am in ketosis or not. I don't count calories and I don't count carbs. Instead, I focus on eating foods that I know are low carb. If I'm not sure (especially food outside the house) I look it up.

 

I think it is best to stay away from any added sweeteners until you are comfortable with your new way of eating. Having sweet snacks CAN increase your cravings for sugar/carbs, even if you use artificial sweeteners.  Plus, the longer you are away from sweet foods/drinks, the sweeter natural foods taste.  Cabbage is sweet to me now, especially roasted at high temp.  Cream is sweet.  Carrots are practically candy.

 

That said, I'm 2+ years into this way of eating now and I do fix some low-carb desserts and fat bombs.  My favorite is a crustless cheesecake that is better in my mind than any cheesecake I had in my carb-heavy days.  It may just be my memory playing tricks on me!  I also will make coconut oil fudge, lemon curd, frozen lemon fat bombs, etc.  However, I use much less sweetener (usually Truvia and/or liquid splenda drops) than recipes call for.  I just don't need as much now that my tastes have adapted.

 

I do know that this way of eating is not for everyone. However, I've had excellent results.  I'm 5'3" and went from a high of 192 pounds to my current 112 pounds. Blood pressure from a high of about 160/98 to current 114/67.  Fasting blood glucose from 107 to current levels in the 70's.  HgA1C from 6.6 to current 5.1.  All without meds. No extreme exercise routines.

 

My lessons learned:  I was first afraid to increase fats when I lowered my carbs.  I ended up HUNGRY.  Once I upped my fats, I was able to be satisfied.  It took a while, so give yourself time, but I slowly began to eat less because I was so satisfied with my meals. I didn't intentionally eat less, it just happened naturally.  Depending on your current carb levels, you can feel pretty sick if the carbs are suddenly dropped.  At one point, I consumed very large amounts of full sugar soda.  My first step in improving my diet was giving up soda cold turkey. At this point, I was still eating plenty of other sugar and carbs.  I still had flu-like symptoms for 2 weeks upon giving up my beloved soda.  Seriously, if I wasn't at work, I was in bed for 2 weeks!  That's an extreme case and you likely would not suffer like that. Later, once I dropped all other sugar, processed foods, grains, etc. from my diet, I didn't get sick at all. I did have a little dizziness and had to increase my salt and fluids.

 

I wish you the best of luck!

 

Oops. Forgot to address one of your specific questions.  I do fix a carb dish (not always, but often) to put on the table for other family members. The difference is that it is ONE carb dish, and not massive quantities of it, instead of 2 or 3 carb side dishes.  I also be sure there are plenty of non-carby options on the table to fill everyone up.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Pegasus

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I eat LCHF. I don't concern myself with whether I am in ketosis or not. I don't count calories and I don't count carbs. Instead, I focus on eating foods that I know are low carb. If I'm not sure (especially food outside the house) I look it up.

 

I think it is best to stay away from any added sweeteners until you are comfortable with your new way of eating. Having sweet snacks CAN increase your cravings for sugar/carbs, even if you use artificial sweeteners.  Plus, the longer you are away from sweet foods/drinks, the sweeter natural foods taste.  Cabbage is sweet to me now, especially roasted at high temp.  Cream is sweet.  Carrots are practically candy.

 

That said, I'm 2+ years into this way of eating now and I do fix some low-carb desserts and fat bombs.  My favorite is a crustless cheesecake that is better in my mind than any cheesecake I had in my carb-heavy days.  It may just be my memory playing tricks on me!  I also will make coconut oil fudge, lemon curd, frozen lemon fat bombs, etc.  However, I use much less sweetener (usually Truvia and/or liquid splenda drops) than recipes call for.  I just don't need as much now that my tastes have adapted.

 

I do know that this way of eating is not for everyone. However, I've had excellent results.  I'm 5'3" and went from a high of 192 pounds to my current 112 pounds. Blood pressure from a high of about 160/98 to current 114/67.  Fasting blood glucose from 107 to current levels in the 70's.  HgA1C from 6.6 to current 5.1.  All without meds. No extreme exercise routines.

 

My lessons learned:  I was first afraid to increase fats when I lowered my carbs.  I ended up HUNGRY.  Once I upped my fats, I was able to be satisfied.  It took a while, so give yourself time, but I slowly began to eat less because I was so satisfied with my meals. I didn't intentionally eat less, it just happened naturally.  Depending on your current carb levels, you can feel pretty sick if the carbs are suddenly dropped.  At one point, I consumed very large amounts of full sugar soda.  My first step in improving my diet was giving up soda cold turkey. At this point, I was still eating plenty of other sugar and carbs.  I still had flu-like symptoms for 2 weeks upon giving up my beloved soda.  Seriously, if I wasn't at work, I was in bed for 2 weeks!  That's an extreme case and you likely would not suffer like that. Later, once I dropped all other sugar, processed foods, grains, etc. from my diet, I didn't get sick at all. I did have a little dizziness and had to increase my salt and fluids.

 

I wish you the best of luck!

 

Oops. Forgot to address one of your specific questions.  I do fix a carb dish (not always, but often) to put on the table for other family members. The difference is that it is ONE carb dish, and not massive quantities of it, instead of 2 or 3 carb side dishes.  I also be sure there are plenty of non-carby options on the table to fill everyone up.

 

 

 

Thanks!  I'm actually just finishing up one month without coke, and I was addicted enough that it left me feeling pretty awful for one week and semi-awful for the next.  So I feel that pain!  But over the last month I've done about 90% whole foods.  I'm now on day 2 of "under 20g carbs" and actually feel fine for the moment!  I think it's because I stared with a month of lower-but-not-low carbs first.  I think I'll stay here for a week or two then gradually increase to somewhere between 50-100 or so and see what feels best blood-sugar wise.

[wapiti]

My two cents - I think you're dong the exact right thing by trying to plan this out rather than winging it.  In those first few days, there may be hunger moments where thinking goes out the window, and it helps so much if you've already done the thinking LOL.  For example, planning some fat bomb snacks - FWIW, I only used these during those first couple of weeks, but they were really helpful to have on hand.  Soon enough you'll get into a pattern where you don't need to think about it and then it's so much easier.

 

I strongly suggest checking out a few books from your library, especially one of the Volek and Phinney books (Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living, Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance).  There's a ton of info that I found helpful in them, such as the need for more electrolytes (either supplement or broth) to keep from feeling bad.  Once in a while I still need extra and notice that I'm craving salt, like on tortilla chips or something, and it helps for me to think about why and what I might have instead.  Another bit - excess protein is turned into glucose, so I'd suggest keeping your protein intake moderate and then tweaking from there.  For me, I need to be careful about that, though maybe I'm ultra-sensitive or something.

 

And another bit from the books - there is a bad window where the brain doesn't have enough carbs to run on glucose (<150? or was it <100? trying to remember the number from the book, though it may differ by individual) but too many carbs to run on ketones, i.e. be in ketosis (>50 -ish).

 

I tried to stay in a very low carb phase for about two weeks, I suppose Atkins-style.  I found the Atkins website helpful.  IIRC, there are also forums, low carb friends.  Like everything else in my life, I looked around, tried what I thought would apply to me and left the rest.  (I didn't have a ton to lose at the time; this was more of a lifestyle-change for me.)  IIRC, nuts were a helpful snack, almonds in particular, but be careful not to overdo; they might be prohibited by atkins the first two weeks due to the carb content though I can't remember. 

 

What trouble looks like for me:  kids leftovers about to go into the trash - I could make a whole meal out of them LOL but they're carbs I don't need.  Today is Saturday and I'm sure dh will bring donuts for the kids on his way home from the gym.  must. resist.  I can have treats once in a while, but carb creep will do me in - I'm still trying to lose a few more pounds that I gained over the past year or so due to carb creep.  Sometimes I can have a full-carb day, like with pizza or pasta, and still be fine - even lose, weird - though not every day.  Sometimes eating a lot of carbs makes me feel literally sick, e.g. birthday cake - no thanks.

 

When I started out, I had wanted to do it for a long time but couldn't manage the simplest thing, getting the sugar out of my morning coffee.  First I made a move to heavy cream and then to bulletproof coffee (coffee whipped with kerrygold unsalted butter).  Now that's been my breakfast for about 3(?) years.  I don't usually eat any carbs until lunch.  Once in a while I'll have an egg or bacon for breakfast, e.g. when traveling, though I am overly insulin resistant in the morning, sometimes even to protein - I guess my body isn't taking up much of it as protein and turns the rest to glucose?  I really don't know. Big salad for lunch is also too many carbs for me - I need to go small.

 

The biggest thing that helped me those first weeks was tracking carbs with MyFitnessPal.  After a few weeks I had a good feel for what I was really eating.  It's a pain, but it also helped me stay on track.  Once in a while when I start falling off the wagon, I try to track for a few days.

 

The first three days were the toughest for me.  I'd go ahead and eat fat bombs or whatever gets you through to not feeling hungry.  If that's too much fat, it's easy to scale back after when you're not having those insulin spikes.

Edited August 27, 2016 by wapiti

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I'm going to follow this thread as the ketogenic diet has been recommended as a way to manage fibromyalgia.

 

I hope others continue to contribute. :bigear:

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

My two cents - I think you're dong the exact right thing by trying to plan this out rather than winging it.  In those first few days, there may be hunger moments where thinking goes out the window, and it helps so much if you've already done the thinking LOL.  For example, planning some fat bomb snacks - FWIW, I only used these during those first couple of weeks, but they were really helpful to have on hand.  Soon enough you'll get into a pattern where you don't need to think about it and then it's so much easier.

 

I strongly suggest checking out a few books from your library, especially one of the Volek and Phinney books (Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living, Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance).  There's a ton of info that I found helpful in them, such as the need for more electrolytes (either supplement or broth) to keep from feeling bad.  Once in a while I still need extra and notice that I'm craving salt, like on tortilla chips or something, and it helps for me to think about why and what I might have instead.  Another bit - excess protein is turned into glucose, so I'd suggest keeping your protein intake moderate and then tweaking from there.  For me, I need to be careful about that, though maybe I'm ultra-sensitive or something.

 

And another bit from the books - there is a bad window where the brain doesn't have enough carbs to run on glucose (<150? or was it <100? trying to remember the number from the book, though it may differ by individual) but too many carbs to run on ketones, i.e. be in ketosis (>50 -ish).

 

I tried to stay in a very low carb phase for about two weeks, I suppose Atkins-style.  I found the Atkins website helpful.  IIRC, there are also forums, low carb friends.  Like everything else in my life, I looked around, tried what I thought would apply to me and left the rest.  (I didn't have a ton to lose at the time; this was more of a lifestyle-change for me.)  IIRC, nuts were a helpful snack, almonds in particular, but be careful not to overdo; they might be prohibited by atkins the first two weeks due to the carb content though I can't remember. 

 

What trouble looks like for me:  kids leftovers about to go into the trash - I could make a whole meal out of them LOL but they're carbs I don't need.  Today is Saturday and I'm sure dh will bring donuts for the kids on his way home from the gym.  must. resist.  I can have treats once in a while, but carb creep will do me in - I'm still trying to lose a few more pounds that I gained over the past year or so due to carb creep.  Sometimes I can have a full-carb day, like with pizza or pasta, and still be fine - even lose, weird - though not every day.  Sometimes eating a lot of carbs makes me feel literally sick, e.g. birthday cake - no thanks.

 

When I started out, I had wanted to do it for a long time but couldn't manage the simplest thing, getting the sugar out of my morning coffee.  First I made a move to heavy cream and then to bulletproof coffee (coffee whipped with kerrygold unsalted butter).  Now that's been my breakfast for about 3(?) years.  I don't usually eat any carbs until lunch.  Once in a while I'll have an egg or bacon for breakfast, e.g. when traveling, though I am overly insulin resistant in the morning, sometimes even to protein - I guess my body isn't taking up much of it as protein and turns the rest to glucose?  I really don't know. Big salad for lunch is also too many carbs for me - I need to go small.

 

The biggest thing that helped me those first weeks was tracking carbs with MyFitnessPal.  After a few weeks I had a good feel for what I was really eating.  It's a pain, but it also helped me stay on track.  Once in a while when I start falling off the wagon, I try to track for a few days.

 

The first three days were the toughest for me.  I'd go ahead and eat fat bombs or whatever gets you through to not feeling hungry.  If that's too much fat, it's easy to scale back after when you're not having those insulin spikes.

 

 

Thank you for all this!  I have one of those books on kindle but haven't dived into it much yet.  I will give it a read tonight.  I've been on-again-off-again paleo for quite a while, so I already get a lot of the basic premise, but I think VLC science is something I could learn more about.  

 

I made my fat bombs... and they are so. good.  lol.  But again, I think coming out of a month of relatively strict paleo has prepared me pretty well, because I'm two days in and haven't had "the flu"... just a pretty mild headache, and I am prone to headache.  I did pick up a vitamin-mineral supplement today to make sure I'm getting electrolytes, and I should have enough bones this week to make myself some broth and maybe freeze it in small portions for a breakfast mug.  

 

I will look into the tracker.  I've been just googling everything, but it might be better to have it all in one place.  

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I'm going to follow this thread as the ketogenic diet has been recommended as a way to manage fibromyalgia.

 

I hope others continue to contribute. :bigear:

 

I sure hope you find a solution.  My stepmom has this and it's really difficult sometimes for her.  But the idea of her altering her SAD... impossible!!!  

[zoobie]

Check out lowcarbfriends forums.

 

Taking magnesium, potassium, calcium, B12, and D3 supplements make me feel better on low carb. I loathe artificial sweeteners, so my dessert-type treats are 90% or 88% dark chocolate or berries with unsweetened whipped cream/whipped coconut cream. Macadamia nuts and iced coffee with cream are my afternoon treat. Making sure I drink enough is huge too. 

 

Typically, I make a side carb for the family with an alternate for me and DH or we just skip it. If we have burgers, we eat them plain or in lettuce wraps. Tacos for the kids are salads or lettuce wraps for us. I'll make roasted potatoes or sweet potatoes for them and roasted cauliflower for us (which kids are welcome to eat of course!). I use roasted cauliflower instead of rice or pasta. I prefer it roasted to steamed or boiled. Even roasting the riced cauliflower tastes better to me. Cabbage bowls are a great sub too. Spaghetti squash sometimes (I have squash issues). Roasted green beans, zucchini, and broccoli. Lots of salads. 

[ktgrok]

For me, headache and low carb means I need more salt. Cutting out all the processed food means a lot less salt, and the low sugar means you pee off a bunch of water weight which flushes out your salt as well. A bit of salted water even would be enough to fix the issue almost instantly. 

 

I'm no longer low carb right now, as this darned baby dislikes low carb foods other than cheese and one can't live on cheese along,b ut I'm at least slow carb, and I do know I do better on low carb. (in other words, I'm eating whole grains now, but still feel like crap if I have white flour or sugar). 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

For me, headache and low carb means I need more salt. Cutting out all the processed food means a lot less salt, and the low sugar means you pee off a bunch of water weight which flushes out your salt as well. A bit of salted water even would be enough to fix the issue almost instantly.

 

I'm no longer low carb right now, as this darned baby dislikes low carb foods other than cheese and one can't live on cheese along,b ut I'm at least slow carb, and I do know I do better on low carb. (in other words, I'm eating whole grains now, but still feel like crap if I have white flour or sugar).

The idea of drinking salted water freaks me out! But on your counsel, I did go grind some salt into the palm of my hand, then lick it off, while imagining very hard that I was just polishing off an order of McD French fries.