sticky situation, advice

[eternalsummer]

So DD11 has this friend in school whom she would like to be her best friend.  Last spring DD spent the night with friend; when I dropped her off I explained about our particular diet (we don't eat dairy or eggs or factory farmed meat) and left a bag of basic food that DD11 can eat.  The next day DD11 came home and cried for hours.  Turns out the dad had been pretty constantly derogatory about us, our dietary habits, her, the whole idea of the thing, etc.  He also offered her chocolate (which he knew she couldn't eat) and made fun of her when she refused ("do you do everything your mom says?  even this crazy food rules thing? etc.") so she ate the chocolate.  It is the first time in 5-6 years she's knowingly eaten something we don't allow, so it was pretty exceptional pressure.

 

I've since overheard the dad talking to his daughter (the friend) after school - he calls her things like freakazoid and asked a bystander once, "can I hit her?" (meaning the daughter).  I know it is probably a family culture thing and that is fine for them, but it's not an attitude toward kids that DD can really handle, and I find it pretty reprehensible, honestly.

 

So they've been wanting DD to spend the night again, and I always say no and have some excuse. This bothers me since A. I don't like dissembling and B. they keep asking.

 

I need a way to tell the truth - basically, I need to tell the mom that her husband is so obnoxious that it feels abusive to DD and to us, and she cannot stay the night there (ever).  

 

 

It makes me really nervous (obviously, as I've not done it for months).

[mommyoffive]

nope

 

 

have her to your house

[Guest]

Is tell them truth about why, but I tend to be pretty to the point like that.

[DawnM]

Why are your rules about food so strict? Is there some sort of allergy? Is this just a preference?

[bettyandbob]

I'd speak to the mom, acknowledge that it is awkward for you to say this but dd was not comfortable at their house. If you think dd still wants to interact with the girl invite her to spend time at your house. 

[eternalsummer]

It's neither an allergy nor a preference; it's a moral imperative.  It's kind of like being an observant Orthodox Jew or an observant Muslim with regard to pork.  

 

It is as if you dropped your observant Jewish kid off at a friend's house and said, "btw, we are observant Jews so she can't eat pork products or mixed meat and milk dishes.  She knows what she can and can't eat; here is a bag of stuff that works for her."  Then the dad spent the whole day making fun of Judaism and her parents and offering your kid bacon.

 

 

Diana, when she asks why DD was not comfortable, what do I say?  I am really socially awkward and don't know how to say it kindly.  "She wasn't comfortable because she felt like your husband was making fun of her the whole time?"  What if she says he will be better behaved in the future?  Because I have seen this behavior from him with other people in other circumstances I'm really really unwilling to let her go over again; also to be honest she ate the chocolate, and he offered it to her (and pressured her to eat it), and I just don't want to expose her to that pressure again and set her up for repeated failure.

 

 

ugh, makes me nauseous just thinking about confronting her about it!

[Tap]

I would own it as an adult, and not put it onto dd.

 

I would just say "I am not allowing dd to stay the night at homes with different food rules that ours right now.  We have strict rules in our home based on our belief system, and it makes for uncomfortable situations for us to ask other families to accommodate and support those rules..  Thank you for the invitation. Your daughter is a great girl and a lot of fun, but we will have pass on the sleep overs for now."  

 

If the person pushes, let them know that her husband encouraged your dd to break the food rules, and the comment about doing everything the parent says.  Let then know that you understand that your rules are not the standard in the community and but that you feel strongly about them for educated reasons and you don't want your child to feel that her families rules are not important. 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Tap

[bettyandbob]

 

 

Diana, when she asks why DD was not comfortable, what do I say?  I am really socially awkward and don't know how to say it kindly.  "She wasn't comfortable because she felt like your husband was making fun of her the whole time?"  What if she says he will be better behaved in the future?  Because I have seen this behavior from him with other people in other circumstances I'm really really unwilling to let her go over again; also to be honest she ate the chocolate, and he offered it to her (and pressured her to eat it), and I just don't want to expose her to that pressure again and set her up for repeated failure.

 

 

ugh, makes me nauseous just thinking about confronting her about it!

 

 

I'll admit I'd try to avoid similar situations. However, you aren't going to avoid this family because the girls are in school together. I think you will have to be honest. Again, tell her you feel awkward having to say it. "This is really awkward, but dd was very upset at what your dh said about her food. Your dh said so much that she felt bullied to eating something she wasn't supposed to have. She was very upset. Because she is young she really isn't in a position to stand up to adults who disagree with her family's decisions. And she shouldn't have to do that. So, it's not good for her to be at your house." Write it down and say it all in one breath so the other mom can't interrupt. That way you will get it all out. 

 

Mom likely knows this is a problem. 

 

If mom gets defensive in a hostile way, just say you have to go and hang up. And expect there to be fall out for you dd. 

 

Otherwise you can end with asking her to get back with you about her dd coming to your house or meeting up for ice skating or swimming, etc. 

 

I don't think it matters that your famiy's food choices are ethically based. I'm sure if my dd were at his house the man would be laughing that gluten free is silly and let pizza crumbs drop on everything. I'm sure the man would wave a knife with peanut butter on it in front of a child with anaphylaxis. The man is just a bully. 

[SereneHome]

Send her an email instead of speaking to her.

 

 

[marbel]

What Tap said.

 

I would not bring up the husband unless pressed for specific reasons.  I would not use the word "bullied."  I would say that it was clear that the dietary restrictions were an imposition on them* and a source of difficulty for your daughter during the event.   Surely the mom knows about the husband's comments, unless he was careful to make them when she was out of the room? 

 

Invite the friend to your house.   If they go to school together, they will be able to cement their friendship there.  Can you invite the girl over after school sometimes? 

 

*Even though they probably weren't, they clearly made the host (dad) uncomfortable to the point he was making comments.

[eternalsummer]

Tap, we do let her spend the night at other friends' houses - it's usually really not a big deal, and other adults have always been pretty understanding.  

 

Diana, that is a good idea to just get it all out at once, and preferably over the phone.  Also I think you're right - he has the same demeanor with just about everyone (at least everyone female) and I probably would not be comfortable with her being there even if the food were not an issue at all.  

 

The mom is really friendly.

 

The friend is totally welcome to come over to our house any time, but I think they're confused by our continual refusal to allow DD to go over there again, so it's been kind of awkward.  

 

The funny thing is, I have been coaching DD this last year to be honest and kind to her friends as there has been some social drama, and I've had to tell her to go *right now* and tell [friend] the truth about whatever situation, because DD would just like to ignore it forever and allow [friend] to be quietly confused and miserable, and I know that being honest and upfront is the better way.

 

But it's harder to do myself than it is to insist DD do it!  Bah.

[Guest]

I'd just tell the parents that their lack of respect for your culture means further contact is not doable. The end.

[PrincessMommy]

It's neither an allergy nor a preference; it's a moral imperative.  It's kind of like being an observant Orthodox Jew or an observant Muslim with regard to pork.  

 

It is as if you dropped your observant Jewish kid off at a friend's house and said, "btw, we are observant Jews so she can't eat pork products or mixed meat and milk dishes.  She knows what she can and can't eat; here is a bag of stuff that works for her."  Then the dad spent the whole day making fun of Judaism and her parents and offering your kid bacon.

 

 

Diana, when she asks why DD was not comfortable, what do I say?  I am really socially awkward and don't know how to say it kindly.  "She wasn't comfortable because she felt like your husband was making fun of her the whole time?"  What if she says he will be better behaved in the future?  Because I have seen this behavior from him with other people in other circumstances I'm really really unwilling to let her go over again; also to be honest she ate the chocolate, and he offered it to her (and pressured her to eat it), and I just don't want to expose her to that pressure again and set her up for repeated failure.

 

 

ugh, makes me nauseous just thinking about confronting her about it!

 

oh man, you've just described me.  I hate this type of thing and I'm really bad at saying things nicely.  I usually avoid to the point of avoiding.  It's really bad.  I feel for you.   :grouphug:   I hope you can find some way to advocate for your daughter that doesn't offend. 

 

But, the thing is this guy really should be more sensitive.  Like you're example, he should be willing to accommodate such things without being a bully about it.  

 

Let us know how it goes.

[MercyA]

Aww, what a jerk. Try not to let him get to you. It's not worth your energy.

 

I think simple and honest is best. "This is really awkward, but to be honest, our daughter wasn't comfortable at your house the last time she spent the night. Apparently there was some debate about our family's dietary restrictions. It would be easier for DD if your child came to our house instead." Repeat, "Sorry, she's just not comfortable" if necessary.

 

And I think your family's dietary choices rock. 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[bettyandbob]

Tap, we do let her spend the night at other friends' houses - it's usually really not a big deal, and other adults have always been pretty understanding.  

 

Diana, that is a good idea to just get it all out at once, and preferably over the phone.  Also I think you're right - he has the same demeanor with just about everyone (at least everyone female) and I probably would not be comfortable with her being there even if the food were not an issue at all.  

 

The mom is really friendly.

 

The friend is totally welcome to come over to our house any time, but I think they're confused by our continual refusal to allow DD to go over there again, so it's been kind of awkward.  

 

The funny thing is, I have been coaching DD this last year to be honest and kind to her friends as there has been some social drama, and I've had to tell her to go *right now* and tell [friend] the truth about whatever situation, because DD would just like to ignore it forever and allow [friend] to be quietly confused and miserable, and I know that being honest and upfront is the better way.

 

But it's harder to do myself than it is to insist DD do it!  Bah.

 

Maybe the tone of my statement is too aggressive. You could go the direction that Tap suggests, but if you talk have a statement prepared and say it all at once. Otherwise, you probably will not get your point across. At least I wouldn't. 

[Jenny in Florida]

Why are your rules about food so strict? Is there some sort of allergy? Is this just a preference?

 

Totally not the point.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think it's really late notice to drop such a big pile of food rules at the very last minute like that.  Did you think they hadn't shopped for food already for a prearranged sleepover like this?  Naturally they would be inconvenienced at best, and also would probably have lost a fair amount of money and prep time making special foods for the occasion. 

 

Having said that, the guy is a jerk, even if he may be was ticked off that his wife was put out like that.  And there is ample reason not to trust your DD around him at all.

 

What would I do?

 

I'd apologize for surprising them with that late bombshell, but also say that since your food habits are quite significant and important to your family it would probably be better if the girls socialized more at your house than theirs.  Then invite the girl over for a sleepover.  And then see what happens.  I'm saying this because it sounds like you have nothing against the girl herself, and your DD wants to be friends with her, so that would be a good way to support your DD.

[eternalsummer]

Yes, I am the sort that will end up apologizing and taking it all back and agreeing to something I don't really agree to.

 

Mercy, that is an excellent way to put it.  I might print that out and use is almost verbatim.

 

I do kind of feel bad for the kid and the mom; probably we're not the first people that have said their kid can't go over anymore.  I know DH's siblings had the same experience as kids - their stepfather drove everyone away

[eternalsummer]

The sleepover was arranged that day. ("hey, can DD11 come home with us after school today to spend the night?"  "Yep!")

 

I'll definitely invite the friend over here - she's a nice kid :)

[marbel]

I had not caught that the hosts were not given notice ahead of time about the food restrictions.  That changes my answer a bit.  It probably was an imposition on them, because most likely they would have planned the food.  I would be annoyed if someone did that to me.   Of course that does not excuse boorish behavior!  But next time, please explain your dietary restrictions ahead of time so people can plan ahead. :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

ETA: You were posting as I was typing.  That makes more sense.  I'd still always let people know right away.   "Sleepover tonight?  Sure!  Just so you know, my daughter has some dietary restrictions so I will send all her food. She knows what she can and cannot eat, so no worries.  See you later!"

Edited August 26, 2016 by marbel

[The Girls' Mom]

Short notice is no excuse whatsoever for the dad's behavior.  I have people drop in here all the time on short notice.  Some people are vegan.  Some are allergic to some foods.  Some are just simply picky.  No matter the reason, when we are told they can't or don't want to eat something, we simply say "Ok" and move on.  

 

 

[eternalsummer]

I would have been much more okay if either parent had been upset with me and spoken to *me* about it - even to the extent of saying, "what kind of crazy are you?" and certainly if they'd just been annoyed at short notice (although the whole thing was initiated that day anyway).  It was the making fun of DD (and especially the encouraging her to eat something she knew wasn't allowed) that freaked me out.

[The Governess]

I would tell the mom that honestly, your daughter was uncomfortable about the way her family's food choices were discussed and that she felt pressured to break her food rules, which was upsetting for her. Then I'd say she's not ready to try again right now, but if she is in the future you will let her know.

[MomatHWTK]

I don't let my children spend time with people who attempt to get them to do anything I don't allow. An adult male where my DD is spending the night, telling my DD she shouldn't listen to me? Not acceptable. The dad sounds really mean and acted totally inappropriately. If you know that he has called your daughter names (whether she knows or not) that in itself should be reason enough to say 'no way, no how.' 

 

Too bad for the mom and daughter, but no way would I let my kid near that guy again EVER. 

[NorthwestMom]

I don't let my children spend time with people who attempt to get them to do anything I don't allow. An adult male where my DD is spending the night, telling my DD she shouldn't listen to me? Not acceptable. The dad sounds really mean and acted totally inappropriately. If you know that he has called your daughter names (whether she knows or not) that in itself should be reason enough to say 'no way, no how.' 

 

Too bad for the mom and daughter, but no way would I let my kid near that guy again EVER. 

 

+1! That dad is waaay out of bounds. Sorry you have to deal with this, OP.

 

My DD has a friend whose family eats very strictly, by choice. She always brings all of her own food over. It is a little disheartening not to be able to host her in this way, however, bringing her own food is certainly a lot easier on me.

[lllll]

nm

Edited October 5, 2016 by Cathi

[catz]

I don't think you have to drone on and on.  I think you could just say the food situation made your daughter uncomfortable so we won't be doing sleepovers for the time being.  And it does sound like he has a family culture that is very different than yours. 

 

This is an aside and may not apply to your family at all.  But it is an interesting situation I've seen with older kids and your child is getting to that age.  We've chosen as a family to have some structured restrictions at one time too (we had to switch things up, long story) so I definitely get that choice.  But I've seen some pretty unhealthy relationships with food from a one family that greatly restrict diet for ethical reasons and expect their tweens/teens to follow suit when they're out in the world.  I do think a kid has to make that decision on their own at some point and own it.  My daughter has one friend that steals forbidden food when she's here.  (And to be clear - her parents are ethical vegans, her targets are dairy and meat).   I am happy to store and feed a child food that they bring and won't offer forbidden food.  But for older kids in particular, I don't think I should have to be an enforcer either.  If their are varied choices at a party and the kids are 10+, I'm not watching. 

 

[abcmommy]

I would not want my kids with this guy because that is awful

 

But I also find your rules excessively restrictive and unfair to your kid, socially crippling, and over the top.  She will likely be terribly embarrassed over and over again by your behavior.  

[bettyandbob]

 

 

But I also find your rules excessively restrictive and unfair to your kid, socially crippling, and over the top.  She will likely be terribly embarrassed over and over again by your behavior.  

 

 

Huh?

 

There is nothing wrong with a family making an ethical choice about food. It is no different than making a religious choice. Does that mean children will not ever be embarrassed by it? No. Children are usually embarrassed by family rules at some point in their upbringing that is OK. The OP is not imposing her view on others. For a last minute sleep over she sent food so that her dd could stick to her family's diet. The host dad on the other hand was trying to impose his view on her dd. That was wrong. 

 

 

 

My dd is embarrassed by her food restrictions. Hers are for health reasons. Should I have told her "well honey, if you are embarrassed go ahead and eat what everyone else is. " 

[eternalsummer]

I would not want my kids with this guy because that is awful

 

But I also find your rules excessively restrictive and unfair to your kid, socially crippling, and over the top.  She will likely be terribly embarrassed over and over again by your behavior.  

 

Do you feel the same way about observant Jews or Muslims?

 

I'd never expect or want another adult to enforce our food rules; I just want them not to make fun of our kids because of them, or pressure the kids into eating something they know is unacceptable to us.  Again, how many people would repeatedly offer a Jewish kid bacon and make fun of the kid for refusing?

 

It is true that it makes for uncomfortable social situations, both for us and for the kids (and that is putting it pretty mildly  - imagine Thanksgiving!).  Believe me when I say that for us, the moral imperative to not eat inhumanely raised animal products overwhelms the desire to avoid social awkwardness, even for a people-pleaser like me.

 

That said, I'd love ideas on how to address the food issue in the first place with new friends' families - generally I feel quite badly about it, put it off as long as possible, and then say the wrong thing anyway.  The only time it seems like an easy conversation and no big deal is with families with food allergies (or vegans) - they just take it in stride and I don't feel so weird about it in the first place.

[abcmommy]

I agree your child was treated very very badly.  Not ok.

 

 

[abcmommy]

Huh?

 

There is nothing wrong with a family making an ethical choice about food. It is no different than making a religious choice. Does that mean children will not ever be embarrassed by it? No. Children are usually embarrassed by family rules at some point in their upbringing that is OK. The OP is not imposing her view on others. For a last minute sleep over she sent food so that her dd could stick to her family's diet. The host dad on the other hand was trying to impose his view on her dd. That was wrong. 

 

 

 

My dd is embarrassed by her food restrictions. Hers are for health reasons. Should I have told her "well honey, if you are embarrassed go ahead and eat what everyone else is. " 

Your child has a health issue.

 

This child does not and will likely resent this incredibly restrictive moral code at some point.  It reminds me of the crunchy granola friends who never allowed sugar or junk food- their kids were ravenous hostess addicts as soon as they could get their hot little hands on it.

[Reefgazer]

Just tell the parents that your family does not do sleepovers.  We've had a no sleepover policy since the kids were little and it's gotten me out of a zillion potentially sticky situations.  Barring that, I think Tap struck the right tone and I'd go with that.

So DD11 has this friend in school whom she would like to be her best friend.  Last spring DD spent the night with friend; when I dropped her off I explained about our particular diet (we don't eat dairy or eggs or factory farmed meat) and left a bag of basic food that DD11 can eat.  The next day DD11 came home and cried for hours.  Turns out the dad had been pretty constantly derogatory about us, our dietary habits, her, the whole idea of the thing, etc.  He also offered her chocolate (which he knew she couldn't eat) and made fun of her when she refused ("do you do everything your mom says?  even this crazy food rules thing? etc.") so she ate the chocolate.  It is the first time in 5-6 years she's knowingly eaten something we don't allow, so it was pretty exceptional pressure.

 

I've since overheard the dad talking to his daughter (the friend) after school - he calls her things like freakazoid and asked a bystander once, "can I hit her?" (meaning the daughter).  I know it is probably a family culture thing and that is fine for them, but it's not an attitude toward kids that DD can really handle, and I find it pretty reprehensible, honestly.

 

So they've been wanting DD to spend the night again, and I always say no and have some excuse. This bothers me since A. I don't like dissembling and B. they keep asking.

 

I need a way to tell the truth - basically, I need to tell the mom that her husband is so obnoxious that it feels abusive to DD and to us, and she cannot stay the night there (ever).  

 

 

It makes me really nervous (obviously, as I've not done it for months).

 

Edited August 27, 2016 by reefgazer

[eternalsummer]

Your child has a health issue.

 

This child does not and will likely resent this incredibly restrictive moral code at some point.  It reminds me of the crunchy granola friends who never allowed sugar or junk food- their kids were ravenous hostess addicts as soon as they could get their hot little hands on it.

 

We eat sugar and junk food :)  Ours is a moral position, though, not a health position or a preference or something like that.  

 

Reefgazer, we *do* allow sleepovers.  I'd hate to stop all sleepovers just because of one bad experience.  I just need to find the courage to tell this family that DD can't do sleepovers with them.

[Bluegoat]

I would do what Tap said and say you don't think sleepovers will work any more.

 

I do also think that the more restrictive or complex your food restrictions, the less you can impose them in other's homes.  It's pretty common for religious groups with significant diet restrictions to not eat outside their homes or those of others in the same group.  Partly that is because it becomes increasingly complex to get the right things, but a big part of it is also about the implications for hospitality etiquette and sharing food.

[Carol in Cal.]

If you said your family was vegan, I think that would be a pretty fair summary and that people would be able to take it in stride.

IME usually if people are careful about only eating animal products from humanely raised animals they would ask you at that point whether that was OK, and you could then elaborate.

Vegan is hard to accommodate on a moment's notice for many, though, so I don't know that I would accept spur of the moment invitations if the host doesn't already know of this.

[MomatHWTK]

I don't think those dietary restrictions are really extreme. OP isn't even entirely vegan as far as I can tell. But even then, vegan isn't exactly uncommon. My kids don't eat egg or dairy. It's really not that big of a deal for them unless someone waves fabulous looking sweets with those ingredients in front of them. But we can make most things using replacement ingredients. I'm really surprised that anyone would think a person's diet choices merit such an unreasonable response. I don't like being lectured about what I choose to eat, but I surely don't care if someone else makes different choices for themselves or their children. 

[gardenmom5]

I do have to kind of agree with that.  If someone showed up at my door with a bag of food and "my daughter can't have this and this and that, so here's her food for the night." I would kinda be like "um....I already ordered the pizza tonight, does she know how to cook this?"

 

But I also agree...that's no reason for him to be an ass.  And that's what he was being.  I mean what parent says to their kids friend "do you always do everything your mom tells you to?"  Cause, um YEAH, I DO expect my kids to do what I tell them to.  A line like that sounds just like what someone would say trying to get a teenager to get drunk. 

 

Yes.  just like *you* expect *your* kid to do what  *you* tell them do.

 

shove it back at him.   I know some think it's  over the top - but imo, he *is* a bully.  I would be frank that she was very upset because her food choices were *mocked*, and she felt forced to eat things that your family doesn't eat for strong reasons.  (I trust you don't' have any issues with other people eating those things.)   she is unable to go to their home.  their daughter is welcome at yours. (I assume, no one says anything about her food  choices.)

 

I don't know if this is pertinent or not (your posts weren't not clear) - but I would make sure your children know to say a simple "no thank you." when offered something your family doesn't eat.  (adding), "I can't eat that" ^{please dont' ask  again}. (if pushed)  NOT - "I don't eat that because it's morally wrong to eat it."

 

I know of one LDS teen who went on a business trip with his dad.  dad got called away, and he went to dinner with the others.  they kept trying to get him to drink wine (LDS do not drink for religious reasons) and pulled the "do you need to call your mommy to get permission . . " card.

 

his response was priceless, and instructive.  "no, my mother thinks I'm out with gentlemen." 

[Haiku]

If this guy would pressure your daughter to eat food he knows she shouldn't, what else would he pressure her to do?

[Anne in CA]

The bullying by the father is just horrid. I wouldn't let one of my kids do it again, no way no how. But there just isn't a nice way to say that to the mother. She knows her dh is a jerk. They've been married a long enough time to have kids old enough to have sleepovers. I think she knows the score, but she's hoping you'll overlook it. I will be the vote of dissent and say that passive aggression is just fine in this case. The wife of the jerk started it. I'd keep making excuses and let the other mom bring up what she thinks is the reason why. But then, I am normally a pretty direct person, but I can out passive-aggressive anyone who starts that with me.

[eternalsummer]

If this guy would pressure your daughter to eat food he knows she shouldn't, what else would he pressure her to do?

 

He is strangely awful with women.  I've seen the same patterns in his interactions with their teacher, the knitting instructor (it's a Waldorf school, so they have knitting), other kids, etc.  He's like one of those people who says really terrible things with a straight face but then sort of laughs afterward like you're supposed to know it was a joke (except maybe not really a joke).

 

For instance, in social situations at school he corrects the teacher (who is my age, so younger than most of the parents) in a sort of aggressive and loud way - "Shouldn't you be sitting over there with the kids? What are you doing here?" or "Hey, way to be late and set a great example!", etc. 

 

Anyway I have sent the email.  

[SKL]

Yuck.  "Do you do everything your mom says" sounds like grooming.  And I am not one to quickly jump to that kind of comment.

 

Personally I would keep saying no and hope they would eventually figure it out.

[38carrots]

What a toxic person. I don't even think it is a food issue. If it wasn't the food, it would be something else. How come the mother wasn't there to mediate? The whole family situation there doesn't seem healthy for young child's sleep-over.

 

I hope the conversation goes well for you and your DD.

[eternalsummer]

Yes.  just like *you* expect *your* kid to do what  *you* tell them do.

 

shove it back at him.   I know some think it's  over the top - but imo, he *is* a bully.  I would be frank that she was very upset because her food choices were *mocked*, and she felt forced to eat things that your family doesn't eat for strong reasons.  (I trust you don't' have any issues with other people eating those things.)   she is unable to go to their home.  their daughter is welcome at yours. (I assume, no one says anything about her food  choices.)

 

I don't know if this is pertinent or not (your posts weren't not clear) - but I would make sure your children know to say a simple "no thank you." when offered something your family doesn't eat.  (adding), "I can't eat that" ^{please dont' ask  again}. (if pushed)  NOT - "I don't eat that because it's morally wrong to eat it."

 

I know of one LDS teen who went on a business trip with his dad.  dad got called away, and he went to dinner with the others.  they kept trying to get him to drink wine (LDS do not drink for religious reasons) and pulled the "do you need to call your mommy to get permission . . " card.

 

his response was priceless, and instructive.  "no, my mother thinks I'm out with gentlemen." 

 

 

Yes, we instruct them quite clearly to tell other adults that they *can't* eat certain things because their parents don't allow it, and not to get into specifics.  We're also pretty clear with them that other people make other choices, etc., and it is really none of our business on a personal level and it is generally considered rude to confront other people about such things, just like it would be rude to argue with your friends about religion (we're not religious, but the kids know not to mock other's religious beliefs).

 

Plus what gets me is the power imbalance -it's one thing to argue with your friends about morality or religion; it is entirely another thing to argue (or attempt to argue, or make fun of, or denigrate) with a *child* about these things.  

 

Ugh, I'm mad again remembering the whole thing.

 

Luckily this is the single adult who has ever been unkind to DD about it.  We have family members who've been unkind to *us*, but that is something different.  All other adults have kept their opinions either to themselves or to themselves and us :)

[abcmommy]

I agree he sounds toxic.  And if your kid is at a waldorf school and this family also attends somehow that makes me even less sympathetic to them and more to you.  I mean this is not the run of the mill kids in the neighborhood stuff.  This is waldorf school where people have chosen outside the norm and presumably wanted to walk that path.  He is not a nice person.

[eternalsummer]

What a toxic person. I don't even think it is a food issue. If it wasn't the food, it would be something else. How come the mother wasn't there to mediate? The whole family situation there doesn't seem healthy for young child's sleep-over.

 

I hope the conversation goes well for you and your DD.

 

The mother was there.  She is actually a very forward and friendly person; she comes across as pretty no-nonsense.

 

I told DD it wasn't the food issue too (thanks, Diana).  She thought somehow that the whole thing was her fault and if she'd just agreed with him in the first place when he said things like, "wow, your mother is a crazy b@#$, right?" and "surely you don't really *believe* in this food nonsense" and etc. that he would have calmed down and things would have been okay.

 

This is sooooo why I'm an introvert.  I think I lost a month off of the end of my life stressing out about it.

[eternalsummer]

I agree he sounds toxic.  And if your kid is at a waldorf school and this family also attends somehow that makes me even less sympathetic to them and more to you.  I mean this is not the run of the mill kids in the neighborhood stuff.  This is waldorf school where people have chosen outside the norm and presumably wanted to walk that path.  He is not a nice person.

 

Yes, it is a community of people who are not quite mainstream (which drives us *nuts* most of the time).  We're actually socially quite conservative so we don't really fit the mold of the school that way, but I will say that they are *awesome* about food and cultural differences - lots of kids with strange allergies or preferences (there is a vegan in the class, and someone allergic to mangoes and celery!) so they are used to not batting an eye, which is cool.

 

Plus in general I've found that Colorado is a pretty live and let live state.

[zoobie]

The mother was there. She is actually a very forward and friendly person; she comes across as pretty no-nonsense.

 

I told DD it wasn't the food issue too (thanks, Diana). She thought somehow that the whole thing was her fault and if she'd just agreed with him in the first place when he said things like, "wow, your mother is a crazy b@#$, right?" and "surely you don't really *believe* in this food nonsense" and etc. that he would have calmed down and things would have been okay.

 

This is sooooo why I'm an introvert. I think I lost a month off of the end of my life stressing out about it.

He actually said that?!!?!

[PrincessMommy]

He actually said that?!!?!

 

I was thinking the same thing... what hell?  Oh man, my mama bear instincts would totally set in for that. :cursing:   I would never let my kid near someone like that.  He's completely untrustworthy on so many levels. 

[eternalsummer]

Yep, he actually said that.  And to be honest, it does not surprise me one bit.  He also called his daughter a freakazoid with a straight face in front of her friends and asked the friend (with a straight face) if he could hit her.  I know it was a joke but it was one of those mean jokes, kwim?

 

We're actually pretty flexible people other than the food situation - in part because we're kind of weird and so we know what it is to be kind of weird and still an okay person.  But this was beyond the pale, unfortunately.