Christmas gifts, unreasonable requests, so tired of buying presents

[Janeway]

When I was a child, if I wanted to take a class or take up a hobby, I had to ask for it for Christmas. I got one main thing. I did not simply get to get everything I wanted all year round and then use Christmas to get those things I could not otherwise get.

 

But things seem different now. My children never ask for anything at all like I would have asked for...telescope, tape recorder (today, it would be an iPod), science kits, clothes, etc. Instead, they get what they need for science and such and moan about it. They get all the supplies they need for their extracurriculars with their extracurriculars. Then, Christmas means purchasing something completely out there. For example, son 14 yrs old wanted a piano. We ended up getting a weighted keyboard/digital piano in March. He got all the supplies he needed to go with it. Then he moved on and said he want a bass guitar. We ended up saying no to that. I feel he is just collecting instruments to try them out. He picked the piano, he needs to see that through for a bit first. So, since he is taking karate, he has decided he wants a punching bag. These punching bags take up a lot of space and are free standing and very heavy. I could not move one or remove one from his room it I wanted. He does have his own room, but it already has everything from a piano to an easel to the shelf he wanted (that we purchased for him, not at Christmas) and a dresser and a desk and another shelf in there.  We might be moving next year and we will have to find a way to haul that huge thing. 

 

I want Christmas to be nice, but things need to change around here. The kids get stuff all year long and then for Christmas, all they want is stuff we don't really want them to have. It feels like Christmas is a time to throw money out the window and bring a bunch of stuff in to the house that we do not want to have here. 

 

I know if I had not purchased him the piano back in March that he would probably not ask for a piano now. But regardless, things need to change and I am unsure how to change things without making things very awkward. The kids do not care about clothes. They get shoes when they need them and do not care about any sort of special brand name. Even the supplies for their extracurriculars just get purchased as needed. Please help with suggestions. I do not want to just stand up and suddenly, out of the blue, announce that Christmas presents won't happen. I want a kind, gentle, and reasonable way to make changes. 

[myfunnybunch]

We started focusing on experiences for Christmas and birthdays, rather than just stuff. Not every year. Sometimes there's a thing we'd really like to get for the kids, but once we started focusing away from the "What will we *give* them for Christmas?" question, we found that gift giving became more satisfying, even when we chose an actual thing to give because we felt we had choices and ways to be thoughtful about our gift-giving. :) We really just wanted to start spending some of our money on time together.

 

When we do an experience, we give inexpensive gifts, sometimes related to the experience, and use the remainder of the Christmas budget for a family experience. One year, everyone got gloves and hats, and we bought family games and jigsaw puzzle, and used the rest of the Christmas $$ to rent a cabin in the mountains. (It *rained* the entire weekend instead of snowing, but we still had fun! :D ) Last year, we had a bit of extra and vacation budget and Christmas money, and we gave the kids beach towels and sunglasses and flew to a sunny island in January. This year, the Christmas budget will probably go toward our family trip to Disneyland and the redwoods. And so on....it doesn't have to be a big trip.  Movie gift certificates, a tent for summer camping, a trampoline for family fun in the back yard, a popcorn maker and family games and puzzles, renting a cabin for a hiking trip, concert tickets....

[heartlikealion]

What if you created a budget and said that they should keep the budget in mind when they make their wish list? And also remind them to be practical. I don't think it's unfair to tell a 14yr old that there's no room for said item and if he is serious about getting [insert large item] that he should make room for it by donating/reorganizing/selling other items before putting it on his wishlist.

 

We are downsizing for Christmas this year and I don't know if ds will even notice. I feel like we've wasted money on big ticket items in the past. Dh and ds are both guilty of asking for expensive video games that they hardly touched.

 

I'm also a fan of the experiences thing. Dh and ds got a joint gift card to the movie theater from a relative last year (with some movie candy) and were both thrilled. They haven't even used it all up yet and I think will be seeing a film this weekend.

[gardenmom5]

tbh: you've trained your kids this way.

 

I grew up with the expectations of the sears christmas catalogue. my children did not.  they get one "dream/splurge" gift.  and just as often it was a needed/very-useful item.  when they were young, if it was big - it went to all of them.  Now, I have a rough budget I spend, and that's about how much I spend.  dd loves to cook - so, she gets quality cooking equipment.  1ds loved dh's santoku knife - so when he moved out, I gave him one of his own for christmas.  as the kids have become adults and moved away, we have taken the family to dinner and bought maybe one or two things.  I have one who wanted something much more than I'd normally spend - he not only offered to forego going to his favorite restaurant with the family (where we usually only go for special occasions) - but to pay part as well.  he really appreciated the item.

 

at christmas we also have only one person opening gifts at a time so we can all ooh, and ahh over other people's gift.  I didn't really appreciate what a difference that made in their attitudes until my brother came with his kids one year for christmas.  they tore through their gifts in minutes and were gone.  they didn't care about anything or anyone but their stuff and themselves.

 

for instruments - how about renting until you know your son wants to stick with a particular one?  My nephew (dh's side) went through seven instruments in maybe three years before he started cello.  (his reputation preceded him when they moved while he was in high school.  a bunch of scary looking kids cornered him one day - he thought he was dead - "can you play bass?".  so, he learned bass too.)  he's now a professional cellist - with an undergrad and masters in music.  he's picked up more instruments since then too.

 

eta: I've always  had a budget, it's just loosened up to be more flexible.

Edited August 26, 2016 by gardenmom5

[mamiof5]

We give them good Christmases, but with 5 kids there's no much room for unreasonable requests. If someone wants something we can't afford? Easy...the magic word is no. We don't mind giving them presents for Christmas, but it's not the main focus.

[nevergiveup]

We give them good Christmases, but with 5 kids there's no much room for unreasonable requests. If someone wants something we can't afford? Easy...the magic word is no. We don't mind giving them presents for Christmas, but it's not the main focus.

Sometimes the best gift you can give them is saying 'no.'

[marbel]

I'm not sure I fully understand.

 

If you allow your child to sign up for an extracurricular, and they need supplies, they need them then, not at Christmas, right?    If your child needs shoes because theirs wore out or they outgrew them, you can't wait for Christmas.

 

I think the problem is that you are buying them what they want when they want it (piano and accessories) and you are running out of things to give them for Christmas because as kids get older, their wants just become more expensive.   (I assume the problem is mostly with your older kids.)  You may have also inadvertently set up a sense of entitlement by getting them expensive things for no particular reason (again thinking of the piano).  If your family had planned to purchase a piano for general use/lessons, that would be one thing.  But buying it for one kid with no (apparent to me) plan for lessons, etc... that seems more like a gift that could wait. 

 

We've really downsized Christmas as far as gifts over the years and we've just changed our practices some.   One year we got our daughter a nice camera, but it wasn't a surprise and she paid half.  Last year we got our son a smartphone, but it was just coincidence that he needed a new phone at Christmastime.  If he'd needed it sooner, it would have been an early Christmas gift. 

 

Now we are focusing on things like movie tickets and other experiences.  There is only so much stuff a person needs.

 

Actually this Christmas the main gift may be car insurance for our soon-to-be-licensed drivers.  :-)   

 

ETA:

 

 

 

Instead, they get what they need for science and such and moan about it.

 

Is this part of their curriculum?  I don't know too many kids who would be happy to get curriculum items for school stuff as gifts.  (I am talking about basic curriculum - "what they need" - not cool extra stuff that adds a dimension of fun.)   I am not big on getting kids basic needs as gifts, though I know other families have a different philosophy on that.

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by marbel

[magnificent_baby]

Mine usually make a fairly long list which helps us pick when there are times that something is unreasonable. Also, if something is bulky/heavy/expensive, we wait quite some time to be sure they are still interested (say more than 3-6 months) and not a whim interest. I am all for getting something related to a hobby versus an entertaining electronic, but also weigh the price/interest/size when making the decision.

 

For example, DD wanted ice skates last year for Christmas. She got them for her main present. They were under a $100, easy to store, even if they didn't get used often. Versus a cello that she wanted one year; I really wanted to pull the trigger on that one since it was a musical instrument, but glad I didn't because it was a phase that passed. On the other hand, Ds got a very expensive dirt bike for Christmas; he has ridden for several years and we knew it would get used. 

 

In your case, with Christmas still being a little far off, I would wait a few months to gauge his interest. If still interested near Christmas, I would go for it. I am especially inclined to get something that is non-electronic and encourages movement/exercise. 

 

As a child I didn't get extravagant gifts, we had very little money, but my parents made sure we had something fun or off the list even if it was small. I would be very upset if it were supplies. 

[chiguirre]

What kinds of gifts do adults get in your family? You could transition your teens/tweens to those sorts of gifts. In our family, adults don't get gifts for Christmas. As the kids have gotten older, they've gotten fewer and fewer until now they get one nice gift on Christmas. I still get them small treats for St. Nicholas and Epiphany too. I do buy them all the stuff they need during the year.

[Pippen]

Our finances dictated that larger gifts only happened at Christmas and birthdays, so from a fairly young age our kids learned that if they wanted a larger something in between those events they would need to come up with the funds. Exceptions were usually made for bikes and their first instruments, and occasional other times, such as when a second instrument meant being able to play bass guitar in our church's youth group worship band. We even went this route for cell phones--we paid for inexpensive Tracfones, but when they wanted an iphone or android, they paid the difference.

 

Your son is 14. If he wants a punching bag and bass guitar, and if he is physically able, he should mow some lawns, shovel some snow, do some odd jobs, save some bday money, etc. and buy those things for himself. He'll be more cautious about his "wants" when he has to give up his hard-earned money, and he'll appreciate what he does buy more. 

 

If you address this issue first, the Christmas problem will probably solve itself.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Pippen

[DawnM]

Hmmmm.....I view instruments as part of their education and not a gift.    My son moved the weighted keyboard to his room (we already owned that but he was the only one using it) and then asked for an electric guitar.   We borrowed an acoustic guitar for over 6 months while he learned on it first, but he was sure after that that he wanted an electric guitar, so we got a $200 or so one from Costco and told him that if he needed/wanted a nicer one, we would talk later.  So far he hasn't needed or asked for more.   But, he does play both of them almost daily.

 

A new computer for my oldest?  He needed a nice computer for college, which he started in January.  But since he needed a $1000 computer and not a $500 computer, and his birthday is early Feb, we did give that as a gift.  He was fine with that.  We got him a $500 computer and had to take it back, it didn't do what we needed it to do.  

 

Other than that, we do get stuff they need and some stuff they want throughout the year.  They have an allowance too, but I have never been good at keeping up with that.  

 

For Christmas we have always set a certain $$$ limit per kid.  Then on top of that we get a family gift.  

 

BTW:  Your son should come over here.  We have one of those bags.  DH wanted it in our "gym" in the basement.  I hate that thing.

[tm919]

Mine each get one big gift from "santa," and while they can ask, they don't always get to choose (i.e., to head off the I want a pony thing). They only get a book from us (mom and dad), and then they each buy something for their sibling out of their own money. But it's been that way since their earliest memories.

 

I do think your 12 and 14 year olds are old enough to hear  that they are getting 1 gift and that's it. It will be hard but I think they are old enough. Maybe give the 12 year old a bit of wiggle room. I would probably be honest especially with the 14 year old and say that we made a mistake but we need to head this off -- that it's not a punishment but something needs to change and you'd rather he was your partner in this process for all the younger kids, than he got dragged along unwillingly. I don't know your son obviously, but I think the chances are high that most 14 year olds would freak out and/or complain no matter how gently you explain it though.

 

I would consider carefully how you make the transition with the younger kids, and perhaps make the change more gradually. My siblings are much older than me, and because my parents chose to stop the craziness at the same time for all of us (e.g., we all stopped getting Easter baskets in the same year, not the same age; we started doing our own laundry in the same year, not the same age), I was almost 10 years younger when I stopped getting those bigger things and I remember feeling— not that it was unfair— but sad, like I wasn't really ready at 8 or 10 or 12 to be a "big kid." 

Edited August 26, 2016 by tm919

[JumpyTheFrog]

 Your son is 14. If he wants a punching bag and bass guitar, and if he is physically able, he should mow some lawns, shovel some snow, do some odd jobs, save some bday money, etc. and buy those things for himself. He'll be more cautious about his "wants" when he has to give up his hard-earned money, and he'll appreciate what he does buy more. 

 

If you address this issue first, the Christmas problem will probably solve itself.

I completely agree. He needs to be using his own money to buy this stuff. If he can't get a job, hire him to mow your lawn every week, detail the cars, etc. He needs to learn work=money=stuff.

[Spryte]

Random thought: do you think you might be disappointed in your kids' follow through?

 

We homeschool, and we are a family of musicians, so I view instruments as educational. The piano would have come with weekly lessons and the expectation that those would be continued for X amount of time until he could choose another instrument to try. We have a local co-op that teaches different instruments, if we had a kid who wants to switch a lot, we'd use that or rent.

 

Science kits - ditto. Science supplies, too.

 

I don't view those as gifts as much as items I have an obligation to provide along with an education, since the kids aren't getting exposure to those in PS.

 

Extracurriculars, clothes and shoes - we buy as needed. Kids each get X number of extracurricular activities per school year and summer, and there's an expectation that they will stick with it. We don't switch willy nilly. But like the other stuff, I sort of view extracurriculars as part of what we signed on for when we chose homeschool.

 

For Christmas gifts, the kids know they can ask for 3 things. They may or may not get all 3. They know not to expect it. On top of that, we fill in with things they need or we want them to have. Clothes, educational stuff, whatever.

 

If you want to switch things around, I think you can. When your son asks for the punching bag, or another item you find unreasonable, suggest a Christmas list. Explain why. Gently. Do they believe in Santa? If they do, you might have a bit more work explaining the change in perspective. :)

Edited August 26, 2016 by Spryte

[Janeway]

I know that I have messed up and I need to change....

 

BUT..here is what happened....

 

Originally, if a child was interested in rocks, for Christmas, the child might have gotten geology books, a geology kit, rocks, etc. Now, that is just called educational and purchased much sooner, and not given as a gift. If a child were interested in a language, such as French, the gifts might have included things like Rosetta Stone. But now, that would just be purchased as educational.

 

Previously, educational stuff could and would be gifts. And children would love it and appreciate it. Now, it all gets labeled "education" therefore, a need to be bought right away rather than given as a gift for Christmas. And I feel like the educational stuff is no longer viewed as a gift, which, changes what education is. I want to go back when a child gets excited about something and can wait until Christmas to get it and is thrilled..and that thing they are excited about could actually be music, or rocks, or a book on medieval times, etc.

 

How do I get that back? It is too easy with  home schooling for everything to be labeled as educational. And, I guess there is a part of me that worries if I don't jump on it when they want it, then they won't want it by Christmas.

[bettyandbob]

My oldest is 2E. He is very entitled (improving, but still entitled as a college student now). It's really weird to me the level of entitlement because younger siblings do not have entitled attitudes at all. One thing that improved this attitude was getting a job. Due to poor social skills in combination with early resistance when first job age and later conflicts to getting a job he did not land a job until he was 20. 

 

This dc is also a bit of a hoarder. The stuff issue is a huge problem and became a problem for the whole family because while he has the largest room he can't fit all his stuff in there. 

 

Here are some things that happened in our house through the teen years:

 

He always gets some clothing. Christmas is when our dc might get brand name or clothing items that are "upgraded" in some way beyond necessary. 

 

If extra curricular equipment is particularly expensive it might be a Christmas or  birthday present. My dc can choose their own extracurriculars, but they are told upfront if there's a lot of equipment they have to earn the money or ask for birthday and Christmas. 

 

Extra curricular related stuff that is not necessary, but nice to have is definitely Christmas or birthday. Oldest has gotten new running shoes, reflective tape and lights for his bike this way. My dd has gotten ballet warm up sweaters. I'd put team backpacks and other junk the team gets, but is suggested as optional in this category. Shin guards, cleats, point shoes, required uniforms are not in this category--we would buy those. Now if my dc chose ice hockey, he'd have to start asking for pads etc for birthday or heavily research where equipment can be gotten used (freecycle, craigslist, team swaps have all been used in our house). 

 

We started gifting experiences. One year ds had the opportunity to travel to Quebec. Likewise a few years later he had the opportunity to travel to France. These were very expensive opportunities for our family. In some families these might be expected, but not ours. Those years ds got something small and a piece of clothing for Christmas. Additionally, relatives were told to give him spending money for the trips. Both these trips occured in March, so I held onto the money. $10 from an aunt, $50 from a grandma it all helps. 

 

Other experiences were smaller or ongoing. The travel team trip to Orlando that includes more than tournament play or the Choir tour are not essential to the activity IMO. The child needs to earn some of the costs or expect that costs will be part of birthday or Christmas. 

 

Camp may be a gift. 

 

X weeks of personal training sessions may be a gift. 

 

With my oldest we had to tell him months in advance some presents just would never happen, no matter how much he asked. This was met with anger by him (other people get these things, etc). We started doing this when he was about 12. By the time Christmas or birthday came he had gotten used to the idea. He started to get the message about some presents by the time he was about 16, but there were definitely years we had to do this warning. 

 

For your ds, instead of a punching bag ask if he'd like a series of private sessions with his instructor. It might be more expensive than the punching bag, but it is a reduction of stuff. A bass guitar can easily be found on Craigslist ( yes my dc have gotten presents that were used). 

 

Some people are saying to wait and see what his interests are closer to Christmas. You need to decide if that makes sense for your ds. If it were my ds I'd start now with "no we can't do that" and separately "here's an idea, would you like.."

 

Like I said my house is weird. Youngest is happy with the smallest littlest thing. Middle had a pet sitting business at 8 and bought an American Girl Doll and a camera at 9 ($400 of money she earned for those two things). So she has expensive desires, but she thinks carefully and decides to save for it rather than ask her parents. Through high school she has saved almost all the money she's earned and she's very careful about asking for presents (she tells me something is too expensive for me to give her). 

 

 

ETA: I forgot a few years ago I started asking the kids to list things under $X amount they wanted. So, they had a hard guide (particularly the oldest) of our limit. We started this because we had a serious financial downturn from which we have never really recovered. 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Diana P.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I think it's really, really easy to created entitled/spoiled/material-saturated kids in the current world.  "Luxury items" are now thought of as must-haves or something close to it, and the prices have fallen enough to make it almost reasonable to simply buy things as they catch a person's interest.  

 

I think it takes a very active and conscious effort to prevent this, and I struggle with it all the time.  

 

Personally, I would never buy an instrument for a child with no strings attached.  Instrument = daily practice.  

 

Downsizing Christmas can mean offering family gifts (a fish aquarium, tickets to the circus, a month's pass to a rock climbing gym, or...), spending a semester on "human geography" using materials like Hungry Planet, Toy Stories, and Where Children Sleep.  Then choosing one of the charities where you invest money in a small business in the developing world while giving your children practical things that all kids need (we always got new PJs, underwear, toothbrush, lotion, etc as gifts when I was a kid) as well as maybe one moderately priced "fun" gift (iTunes or amazon gift card, etc...).  

 

 

[SKL]

Similar here, except that Christmas isn't that awesome.  We are usually traveling on or just after Christmas, so the focus is on the trip (which is not a Christmas present).  Birthdays are usually an experience, sometimes including a new pet.

 

I find it difficult to know what to buy my kids for Christmas, because frankly they have too much of everything already.  Last year their main gift was a beanbag chair.  It was really the only thing one of my kids appreciated at the time.  (The books and videos were appreciated later.)

 

Here's what my parents used to do.  They would tell each kid to think of one thing they wanted for Christmas, something nice but reasonable.  I think I will do that this year and going forward.  They will get the one thing they say they want, and I will not worry about whether they will be surprised / excited etc.  Other than that, the standard stuff like a pajama, candy, stocking stuffers.

[mommyoffive]

I grew up with Christmas being about tons of presents.  The whole room filled and as high as the tree. 

 

We did that for the kids a few years and they couldn't care less.  Actually stopped opening presents because they were tired and wanted to play with one thing.

 

So we have moved away from stuff.  We give experiences.  Trips, tickets to a show, memberships.  

We still give a few presents, but not much.  They get a ton for extended family and actually that is way to much.  They are happy for a day or two and then don't touch the stuff again.  

 

I return just about everything and they don't care at all. 

 

I think in this day it is just so easy to get so much stuff.

[Beth S]

I think you've gotten great advice.  Yes, we want the homeschool-gift line to blur, but Christmas gifts should not be 'agenda' items = a husband should never surprise his wife with a treadmill or vacuum cleaner as a Gift.

 

We have a set budget for each child, and they know what that is.  They make wish lists, with items starred that are most wanted.  We pick & choose from their list, and talk about the limits & constraints. 

[Janeway]

14 yr old needs a new bike. But, he can take or leave that. He has ASD so he is obsessing on the karate stuff now. I dread the idea of loud sounds and hearing the punching and yelling Kee-Ya! all day long. Then the fact that the bag is so big and cannot be moved around with ease. I would not be able to move it at all. Financially, it is a doable price.

 

What I want to give him, though, is a new bike, new sparring gear, two new GI's (he is doing Ji Jitsu and American Karate which use different uniforms), some paint supplies, some books, and some things to go with his music, as well as a little bit of money for a new video game or something. The bike alone will cost as much as the punching bag and fact is, he would use the punching bag more. BUT, the punching bag would sit in the bedroom and be too heavy for me to move and not be something he can take off to college with him. I guess the punching bag is not a huge deal.

[HomeAgain]

14 yr old needs a new bike. But, he can take or leave that. He has ASD so he is obsessing on the karate stuff now. I dread the idea of loud sounds and hearing the punching and yelling Kee-Ya! all day long. Then the fact that the bag is so big and cannot be moved around with ease. I would not be able to move it at all. Financially, it is a doable price.

 

What I want to give him, though, is a new bike, new sparring gear, two new GI's (he is doing Ji Jitsu and American Karate which use different uniforms), some paint supplies, some books, and some things to go with his music, as well as a little bit of money for a new video game or something. The bike alone will cost as much as the punching bag and fact is, he would use the punching bag more. BUT, the punching bag would sit in the bedroom and be too heavy for me to move and not be something he can take off to college with him. I guess the punching bag is not a huge deal.

 

I think you just answered your own question.

 

Gifts shouldn't be things we demand or given to fulfill ransom.  They should be chosen by the giver - what the recipient chooses to do with it is up to them.  That's how you get back to a simpler holiday.  YOU choose the gift.

 

FWIW, I hear you on the education front.  Our solution has been to buy the minimum needed for the subject, and gift the extras.  My oldest borrowed a bow until he was given one for his birthday.  It gave him a chance to learn how to handle one and figure out his right draw weight.  A few years later we found a compound bow for him at a thrift store and gave it to him for Christmas.  Had we bought immediately or given it to him out of season, he would probably have the wrong stuff, or ended up with way more gear than he used.

[gardenmom5]

14 yr old needs a new bike. But, he can take or leave that. He has ASD so he is obsessing on the karate stuff now. I dread the idea of loud sounds and hearing the punching and yelling Kee-Ya! all day long. Then the fact that the bag is so big and cannot be moved around with ease. I would not be able to move it at all. Financially, it is a doable price.

 

What I want to give him, though, is a new bike, new sparring gear, two new GI's (he is doing Ji Jitsu and American Karate which use different uniforms), some paint supplies, some books, and some things to go with his music, as well as a little bit of money for a new video game or something. The bike alone will cost as much as the punching bag and fact is, he would use the punching bag more. BUT, the punching bag would sit in the bedroom and be too heavy for me to move and not be something he can take off to college with him. I guess the punching bag is not a huge deal.

that sounds like a lot of stuff.

 

at 14, he should easily have another four years at home  before heading to college.  (provided he goes  somewhere he isn't living at home.)

 

you say he will use the punching bag more than the bike, you complain you can't move it (why do you have to move it?  I thought they hung from the ceiling).  this isn't a gift for you - so why do you get to say the punching bag isn't a big deal when in the previous sentence you said he'd use it more than a bike?  how is YOUR opinion for what your son would prefer relevant?

[bettyandbob]

14 yr old needs a new bike. But, he can take or leave that. He has ASD so he is obsessing on the karate stuff now. I dread the idea of loud sounds and hearing the punching and yelling Kee-Ya! all day long. Then the fact that the bag is so big and cannot be moved around with ease. I would not be able to move it at all. Financially, it is a doable price.

 

What I want to give him, though, is a new bike, new sparring gear, two new GI's (he is doing Ji Jitsu and American Karate which use different uniforms), some paint supplies, some books, and some things to go with his music, as well as a little bit of money for a new video game or something. The bike alone will cost as much as the punching bag and fact is, he would use the punching bag more. BUT, the punching bag would sit in the bedroom and be too heavy for me to move and not be something he can take off to college with him. I guess the punching bag is not a huge deal.

 

 

That sounds like a lot. I think the bike is better than a punching bag. In another year he can use the bike to get to and from a part time job. He can use the bike now to get to extracurriculars on his own. There is nothing wrong with a useful present. In the long run he may really enjoy the independence he garners by transporting himself. 

 

Looking into the future you don't want to be like me with the albatross taking up space. my ds knows he can sell some of the stuff he's not using, he won't do it. 

[Mimm]

It sounds like it's not Christmas that needs to change, but all the time between Christmases and birthdays. There are things we give our kids, things they buy themselves, but there are plenty of things they would like that we say, "You should ask for that for Christmas." My kids are used to waiting for things they want.

 

However, my kids would get a piano if they were going to take piano, and not as a Christmas or birthday gift. But they would realize this was an investment and they were expected to stick with piano.

 

If you don't want your son to have a punching bag, don't get it. A Christmas list is a list of desires, not demands.

[happypamama]

If by punching bag, you mean the freestanding one where you fill the base with sand or water, then that might be a really good investment if he's high up in belts and has at least four years before he moves away. Without it, it's really hard to practice kicks at home, especially if he's the oldest kid in the family. We got one for our kids because that way they can practice without needing someone else to hold a big pad for them. My oldest is 14 and really strong, so that's a lot on her brothers to hold the pads for her. The bag weighs about 150 pounds filled, I think. I can shift it a bit or slide it a little, but dh would have to do serious moving. But, I got an excellent deal on it, and since DD and DS1 have completed six out of ten belt tests in their way to black (and DD really wants to be ready for her black belt when she's eligible for the adult black belt in about a year and a half), it seems like a good investment. I think I'd talk to your son about which he really wants more, the bag or the bike.

 

I understand your problem. It's easy to have stuff, lots of it. I'm finding it hard to give gifts to my small ones because they already have SO many toys. We haven't even added to our wooden trains, play kitchen, or Duplo collections in a while because even those seem maxed out. I did get each of the small boys a special hardback book for their birthdays, which I inscribed for them, so they each have something special.

 

My kids usually get some smaller gifts and a big one, and there are some group gifts too. That's how they got the keyboard, the small tablet they all use, some more expensive board games, and the punching bag. Experience gifts/subscriptions to museums have been great too. My little boys got a subscription to the science museum for their birthdays last year, so they got to take all of us a few times, and I don't think they even missed having a toy to open, but we all got to do something cool that we wouldn't have gotten to do otherwise because tickets for one day for our family are too much.

[lovinmyboys]

I feel the same way. My Dh just got a batting cage for our backyard. Not for a birthday or Christmas. Just because he thinks it will help the kids with baseball. And I do the same thing with educational things. By the time Christmas or birthdays roll around I don't want to get them anything because they already have everything.

[fairfarmhand]

For the educational stuff like paints and rock collections and telescopes, I tend to buy very basic things or borrow from friends. So we get cheap paints until a child shows a specific aptitude for something. Rock collections are interesting, but if you can borrow one or make it into a several year long scavenging expedition where you actually travel and pick up interesting rocks everywhere you go, that's much better. I think it's easy for us to assume that educational means that we need to buy all this stuff. But I tend to look at it as those lessons, geology, astronomy, etc. are such a small percentage of our learning. Doesn't mean that we just never buy the stuff, but I try to source it in other ways. Going to a college and checking out their rock collections is just as good for my crew as owning one. Now a kid who ends up passionate about rocks might get to start their own collection, but it would take time, like I mentioned before.

 

A kid that loves science and craves an expensive telescope or microscope gets that for a birthday.

 

My dd got a weighted keyboard for Christmas after taking lessons on a gifted basic model for 2 years. She was thrilled. My girls got their bows for 4H archery for Christmas. It's okay to make them wait for these big ticket items even if it's "needed" or "educational."

 

Can you get a punching bag off Craigslist?

 

I buy used stuff all the time as gifts and my kids think its great!

 

For our family, were we in your situation, my son would get the punching bag as one big gift. A book or two, and either the paints or the music stuff. That would be Christmas.

 

Just because he requests a punching bag now doesn't mean that you give him that now. You say, "Maybe for Christmas."

Edited August 26, 2016 by fairfarmhand

[myfunnybunch]

And, I guess there is a part of me that worries if I don't jump on it when they want it, then they won't want it by Christmas.

Janeway, this really jumped out at me.

 

I think that's one of the keys, right there.

 

I wonder if, rather than jumping on it right away, it might help to wait to see if the interest lasts. That way you know it's a genuine interest.

 

Another poster (or more than one?) mentioned something that we also emphasize...the giver chooses the gift. We have our kids make a list and we encourage them to put anything they want, big or small. But we usually buy only one thing from the list and make thoughtful choices for any other gifts. :) Often, our thoughtfully chosen gifts are the ones that last.

[fairfarmhand]

Janeway, this really jumped out at me.

 

I think that's one of the keys, right there.

 

I wonder if, rather than jumping on it right away, it might help to wait to see if the interest lasts. That way you know it's a genuine interest.

 

Another poster (or more than one?) mentioned something that we also emphasize...the giver chooses the gift. We have our kids make a list and we encourage them to put anything they want, big or small. But we usually buy only one thing from the list and make thoughtful choices for any other gifts. :) Often, our thoughtfully chosen gifts are the ones that last.

 

My daughter asked for piano lessons for TWO YEARS before we finally got the keyboard (given to us) and the lessons. I wanted to make REALLY sure that it wasn't just a passing fancy and we were stuck with an expensive keyboard and spent $$$ on lessons that were "wasted" because she quit when it got hard. Also, with lessons, the understanding is that you will continue until you are proficient in that thing. For music, it was learning to read music and sit down and play from our church hymnal.

 

This has helped my kids really evaulate what they wanted long term.

 

My third daughter has been talking cello for about 18 months. Now her older sister is teaching her piano to help her learn to read music. This will also gauge how interested she is in practicing when it's hard and boring before we get a cello and seek a teacher.

[Bluegoat]

I think there has been a bit of a change in cultural practice around this, that may mean other things need to adapt.  What you describe about gifts used to be a common thing I think - kid wants to learn to skate, so parents get skates for CHristmas and then kid may take lessons or someone teacher him to skate.

 

Now, we often put a lot more emphasis on lessons, or feel that if we can afford it at all kids need those lessons.  So, we simply provide them as a matter of course, the way we do food or pens for school.

 

So - it is logical if kids still think they should be getting Christmas gifts they would want things other than what they get any time.  If I get a telescope for shool shopping why would I also ask for one for Christmas, I don't ask for baked potato for Christmas.

 

I think though we could reasonably say - kids in this older model really were not getting much stuff, so a Christmas treat of a gift like that really is a treat and not too much.  But maybe if kids get far more stuff as a matter of course, that just doesn't need to be an emphasis with Christmas gifts - maybe that is not the best way to celebrate any more.  Gifts at Christmas isn't something that is mandated, it hasn't always been important or emphasized, and it could be again.

[SKL]

Someone bought my kids one of those punching bags.  It sat in my kitchen for like a year and I got sick of looking at it.  Out to the treelawn it went.  I couldn't move it to a "better location" in the house (or outside) because of how big, heavy, and ugly it was.  :P

 

I think I would tell your son he needs to do his punching at the gym / dojang.  :P

[QueenCat]

For Christmas and birthdays, once they hit teenage years, we mostly focused on experiences or special non-necessities (like game systems, but that was usually a shared gift, as they both want it and use it). Educational things were not gifts, for the most part. Exception being for graduation, when a new laptop was given. For the oldest, he got a new one for hs graduation and then for college graduation. It will be the same for youngest. Most clothing was bought when needed. Rarely a gift, unless a relative gave it to them. Or a funny t-shirt in their stocking. However, if they were into designer stuff and wanted $100 sneakers, it might have been.

[SKL]

I buy my kids the things they "need" for sports and school as they "need" it.  "Need" in quotes because we don't actually need most of it, but I want them to have the standard sports equipment so they can do the sports, and clothes that make them look sharp in school, and a nice backpack that will last ....

 

However, I don't buy them everything they want as they want it.  If they ask for something, I tell them they can buy it with their own money (which usually means they aren't going to get it).  If they say they will want it for birthday / Christmas, I tell them to remind me as those occasions draw near, knowing that in all likelihood, they won't want that thing any more.  And I'm more than OK with that.  Lord knows they have too much stuff already.

[Bluegoat]

I know that I have messed up and I need to change....

 

BUT..here is what happened....

 

Originally, if a child was interested in rocks, for Christmas, the child might have gotten geology books, a geology kit, rocks, etc. Now, that is just called educational and purchased much sooner, and not given as a gift. If a child were interested in a language, such as French, the gifts might have included things like Rosetta Stone. But now, that would just be purchased as educational.

 

Previously, educational stuff could and would be gifts. And children would love it and appreciate it. Now, it all gets labeled "education" therefore, a need to be bought right away rather than given as a gift for Christmas. And I feel like the educational stuff is no longer viewed as a gift, which, changes what education is. I want to go back when a child gets excited about something and can wait until Christmas to get it and is thrilled..and that thing they are excited about could actually be music, or rocks, or a book on medieval times, etc.

 

How do I get that back? It is too easy with  home schooling for everything to be labeled as educational. And, I guess there is a part of me that worries if I don't jump on it when they want it, then they won't want it by Christmas.

 

Maybe just start doing it?  Step back and wait to give the educational thing for Christmas.  My husband and I will often get stuff for the house or similar that for Christmas, so it helps the kids see that as something normal.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

14 yr old needs a new bike. But, he can take or leave that. He has ASD so he is obsessing on the karate stuff now. I dread the idea of loud sounds and hearing the punching and yelling Kee-Ya! all day long. Then the fact that the bag is so big and cannot be moved around with ease. I would not be able to move it at all. Financially, it is a doable price.

 

What I want to give him, though, is a new bike, new sparring gear, two new GI's (he is doing Ji Jitsu and American Karate which use different uniforms), some paint supplies, some books, and some things to go with his music, as well as a little bit of money for a new video game or something. The bike alone will cost as much as the punching bag and fact is, he would use the punching bag more. BUT, the punching bag would sit in the bedroom and be too heavy for me to move and not be something he can take off to college with him. I guess the punching bag is not a huge deal.

 

 

 

What's the problem here?  You don't want your kid to have a punching bag.  So don't get him one.  The end.  Nothing terrible is going to happen to him for lack of a punching bag.  

 

I will just say that it sounds like something he truly wants, and would actually use, and he's very invested in his martial arts, so I don't really get what the big deal is about having it.  But I'm not the mom, I don't live in your house, and ultimately, you get to decide!  This isn't that hard!  We all have things we simply don't want in our home.  

 

My pat response when we're walking through a store and someone points out something they want is, "I'll put it on your Christmas list!"  Now, my kids are all younger than yours, but they are perfectly satisfied with this answer and have forgotten about the junky toy by the time Christmas actually rolls around.  

 

Because we can (financially) meet our children's every wish more-or-less the moment they wish it doesn't mean we *should* do that.  Patience is a virtue.  

 

I highly recommend the book Simplicity Parenting!!!  

[marbel]

It can be hard to draw the line between a needed item for educational purposes and an optional item a child wants to pursue a personal interest.

 

So in my house, we treat the fun stuff as gifts and treat any items required by the curriculum, which we as parents have chosen, as school supplies.  That's going to differ among families.  We believed we needed a microscope to properly study biology, so we bought one.  But for some families, that can be an extra that is treated as a gift.   You just have to figure out what is needed and what is not needed.   As for not jumping on the interest - if it doesn't last till the next gift occasion, then it wasn't going to last anyway.  I don't want to total up the cost of things I got my kids because of a deep interest that never turned into anything.   :huh:

 

But regarding the bike: you say he needs a bike but doesn't really want one and won't use it as much as a punching bag.  Under those circumstances (if I understand them correctly), I would not give the bike as a gift.   You are determining he needs it, so (to me) you should get that for him as a parent does any items that she determines the child needs.  (I am not taking into consideration financial limits as of course every family has to deal with that.)   

 

I'd be angry with my husband if he decided I needed a new vacuum to better clean the floor, and so he decided that should be my Christmas gift.  Now if I wanted a new one, and knew it was outside our regular household budget, and requested one as a gift, that's different.  

[SKL]

So far I haven't given my kids bikes as gifts.  They are relatively cheap at Wal-Mart so I just buy them when they grow out of the old one.  (Plus, Christmas and their birthdays don't coincide with bike riding seasons.)  If they wanted a special costly bike and I felt it was worth buying, then it would be a Christmas / birthday / graduation gift I guess.

[Amy in NH]

My daughter asked for piano lessons for TWO YEARS before we finally got the keyboard (given to us) and the lessons. I wanted to make REALLY sure that it wasn't just a passing fancy and we were stuck with an expensive keyboard and spent $$$ on lessons that were "wasted" because she quit when it got hard. Also, with lessons, the understanding is that you will continue until you are proficient in that thing. For music, it was learning to read music and sit down and play from our church hymnal.

 

This has helped my kids really evaulate what they wanted long term.

 

My third daughter has been talking cello for about 18 months. Now her older sister is teaching her piano to help her learn to read music. This will also gauge how interested she is in practicing when it's hard and boring before we get a cello and seek a teacher.

 

My dd asked for harp lessons for 3 years before we rented a harp.  She had her first lesson scheduled before the instrument even came home.  She had to prove she could keep up with her practice on two instruments in order for us to consider buying it.  She had already had piano lessons for 4 years by then, so knew how to read music and knew what was required of her in regards to practice time.  People give away free pianos every day, so that didn't need to be an expensive purchase.

 

We have a heavy bag hanging from the beams in our basement.  It is filled with water, and not so heavy that I couldn't move it if necessary.  We used to have kids (and dh) doing martial arts, and it got used quite a bit.  It is noisy, but I can turn on some music or go for a walk.  And it's not noisier than the drums that are also down there.  :p

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Amy in NH

[gardenmom5]

What's the problem here?  You don't want your kid to have a punching bag.  So don't get him one.  The end.  Nothing terrible is going to happen to him for lack of a punching bag.  

 

I will just say that it sounds like something he truly wants, and would actually use, and he's very invested in his martial arts, so I don't really get what the big deal is about having it.  But I'm not the mom, I don't live in your house, and ultimately, you get to decide!  This isn't that hard!  We all have things we simply don't want in our home.  

 

My pat response when we're walking through a store and someone points out something they want is, "I'll put it on your Christmas list!"  Now, my kids are all younger than yours, but they are perfectly satisfied with this answer and have forgotten about the junky toy by the time Christmas actually rolls around.  

 

Because we can (financially) meet our children's every wish more-or-less the moment they wish it doesn't mean we *should* do that.  Patience is a virtue.  

 

I highly recommend the book Simplicity Parenting!!!  

 

i'll put it on your Christmas list works JUST FINE for teenagers . . . . (I have one who if he really wanted something,  really needed to know it was coming- but he could wait until christmas.)

[jjeepa]

I didn't read through all the responses, but I can recommend a book that can transform your approach to celebrating Christmas. It's called Advent Conspiracy. It does have cc, just so you know.  Hope that's okay.  

[Epicurean]

We only do stockings for Christmas, because we strongly feel that Christmas should not be about gifts. We're not even Christian, but we celebrate the holiday as a time of family, thankfulness, charity, etc. Presents always seem to take precedence over all those good virtues, in part because children are so susceptible to obsessing over gifts and in part because our culture as a whole is so materialistic. The human tendency to focus on ME and MY STUFF is so strong that it doesn't make sense to encourage that at Christmas. It's almost like giving an alcoholic a bottle of wine and then wondering why they don't exhibit more self control and have just one glass at a time.

 

So we just do stockings. They're the big pottery barn ones, maybe 20 inches long. We fill them with little gifts, some of them extremely cheap (candy, target dollar aisle finds) and sometimes we put something more expensive in there, like something from Uncommon Goods or a piece of jewelry or watch or fancy pen. But there is never any expectation that there will be something expensive in there, and no one makes lists.

[Mimm]

And, I guess there is a part of me that worries if I don't jump on it when they want it, then they won't want it by Christmas.

 

If they don't want it by Christmas, then they don't really want it. Personally, I like making my kids wait for something to make sure it's something they really care about. Why would I want them to own a thing, especially a thing that costs money and takes up space in our home, that was just a passing whim?

[QueenCat]

I'd be angry with my husband if he decided I needed a new vacuum to better clean the floor, and so he decided that should be my Christmas gift.  Now if I wanted a new one, and knew it was outside our regular household budget, and requested one as a gift, that's different.  

 

:iagree: I'd be a very unhappy camper if I were given cleaning supplies of any kind as a gift. And almost anything for the kitchen, as that's a chore, not a pleasure to me.

[Tess in the Burbs]

we have a 3 present rule.  And a budget.  There have been years when the big item was all but a few $$ of my budget.  So the other 2 items were candy or something small like that.  I ask for a list...I want big items, average items, small items.  This helps me doll out ideas to grandparents.  Many years my mom and I split the favorites so we can get the most for our money.  

 

My kids don't expect big items at Christmas or Birthdays. They have received big items.  My budget is small compared to most families.  We do give games all month long.  One a week with a riddle they have to solve to open that week's gift game.  So I could spend more on them individually, but we have chosen to do more family type gifts.  

 

I agree that the issue is letting kids dictate the rules.  I have a budget.  I ask for a varied list.  They get what I can afford.  

[nd293]

If you've established a family culture where they get what they want, changing that will be difficult. You'll definitely need to get dh on board, then set it in budgetary terms for your children.

 

Our kids have always had the same framework, so it's been easier, but they definitely don't expect to get everything they 'need' - we got a piano keyboard because I wanted dd to learn and she agreed. But when she wanted to do guitar she had to buy the guitar herself (we initially agreed I'd refund her if she was still playing in a year, but as it would then become 'family property' she opted not to do that so she can forbid her brother from looking at it!). Apart from what we clearly establish as 'need' (clothes, special equipment for established activities) they don't get anything else bought for them over the year aside from birthdays and Christmas. "Put in on your birthday list" was a commonly heard phrase when they were younger, although the item was seldom still desired by then. I used to buy books more freely - now we use the library and if they love a book and want it to keep it can go on the Christmas list. They know Christmas gifts are several smaller gifts, usually according to the "something you want, something you need, something to wear, something to read" formula, and a fun stocking. For birthdays we each get $250 and can get what we want / ask for what we want up to that amount. I have occasionally repaired expensive items like iPods during the year, but if they are carelessly broken they need to be replaced out of birthday money (as happened to ds9).

 

Overall, though, we have an ongoing conversation about living within our means, and not accumulating 'stuff' as part of the bigger conversation about our family values. We talk also about how in an evolutionary sense there wouldn't have been much difference between wants and needs, and that we're programmed to feel emotional discomfort when we want something and don't get it so we work hard for our survival needs. Those feelings are subverted in the modern world and I encourage them to know it's ok to feel a little miserable and frustrated to not get what you want, and that it's important to learn to live with those feelings and not immediately respond to them in order to live the financially and environmentally responsible life we want for them. These are big issues in our family philosophy!

[Terabith]

Thing is, it sounds like you want him to want all these things, but the only thing he is asking for is the punching bag. That's a somewhat different situation. Yes, of course the giver gets to choose the gifts, but I think it's not fair to buy all this stuff you want him to have while ignoring his desires and then being mad at him for not wanting what you want to give.

[eternalsummer]

When I was a child, if I wanted to take a class or take up a hobby, I had to ask for it for Christmas. I got one main thing. I did not simply get to get everything I wanted all year round and then use Christmas to get those things I could not otherwise get.

 

But things seem different now. My children never ask for anything at all like I would have asked for...telescope, tape recorder (today, it would be an iPod), science kits, clothes, etc. Instead, they get what they need for science and such and moan about it. They get all the supplies they need for their extracurriculars with their extracurriculars. Then, Christmas means purchasing something completely out there. For example, son 14 yrs old wanted a piano. We ended up getting a weighted keyboard/digital piano in March. He got all the supplies he needed to go with it. Then he moved on and said he want a bass guitar. We ended up saying no to that. I feel he is just collecting instruments to try them out. He picked the piano, he needs to see that through for a bit first. So, since he is taking karate, he has decided he wants a punching bag. These punching bags take up a lot of space and are free standing and very heavy. I could not move one or remove one from his room it I wanted. He does have his own room, but it already has everything from a piano to an easel to the shelf he wanted (that we purchased for him, not at Christmas) and a dresser and a desk and another shelf in there.  We might be moving next year and we will have to find a way to haul that huge thing. 

 

I want Christmas to be nice, but things need to change around here. The kids get stuff all year long and then for Christmas, all they want is stuff we don't really want them to have. It feels like Christmas is a time to throw money out the window and bring a bunch of stuff in to the house that we do not want to have here. 

 

I know if I had not purchased him the piano back in March that he would probably not ask for a piano now. But regardless, things need to change and I am unsure how to change things without making things very awkward. The kids do not care about clothes. They get shoes when they need them and do not care about any sort of special brand name. Even the supplies for their extracurriculars just get purchased as needed. Please help with suggestions. I do not want to just stand up and suddenly, out of the blue, announce that Christmas presents won't happen. I want a kind, gentle, and reasonable way to make changes. 

 

 

For instruments, I would try to find a place to rent them before buying one; for something like a piano, maybe a couple of years of lessons and a very basic keyboard before investing in something serious.

 

That has nothing to do with Christmas either way, really.

 

What do you want them to want for Christmas that they don't want?  Clothes?  I never wanted clothes as a kid...