ADHD......Choosing Math and Phonics

[Guest]

My almost 7 year old ds has extreme ADHD (undiagnosed). Last year for K he did Explode the Code A-C, 1/4 of Hooked on Phonics K, over half of CLE's KII program, and half of MUS primer. He struggled with learning his letter sounds, and handwriting. He now knows all his letter sounds, can copy his letters, and can read simple CVC words. I would say he is a little behind for a 1st grader though.

 

I have homeschooled for the last eight years (his older siblings), but actually put him in school a week ago because I was feeling burned out.  He is not doing well.  He is getting in trouble everyday because he can't focus/listen/sit still/is impulsive etc, and the teacher has already said that he is struggling with the curriculum and seems behind the other students.  Our K last year was probably too relaxed :( , but honestly last year he was a slow learner, and just wasn't ready for most things.  So I am needing to decide what to use with him because I will probably be pulling him back out after today.

 

I was going to go with CLE's Learn to Read program, but dyslexia does run in the family so I thought maybe I should use All About Reading or Logic of English just to be safe. CLE does have lots of repetition though, and would get him reading faster.  He speaks age appropriately (no language delay), but does say "bwack" for black, "cwown " for clown, and has trouble with a few other blends.  I think this is something I can emphasize and work on at home though.  

 

For math I really wanted to try Math in Focus, but with him having learning issues maybe something like CLE that is traditional and has lots of repetition might be better for him. I would still use manipulatives with CLE to make it as concrete as possible first.  Also with CLE...first grade starts at the very beginning for both phonics and math, so he wouldn't be behind at all.

 

So...would you recommend CLE LTR & CLE Math 1, or Math in Focus 1 & All About Reading/Logic of English, or CLE Math 1 and All About Reading/Logic of English? Or would you recommend something else? Math U See is fine, but I really wanted something has had a little more normal scope and sequence.

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by Guest

[Tiramisu]

Perhaps an unwelcome thought, but you are dealing with speech and possible dyslexia, what if you left him in school long enough to get an evaluation at no cost and make arrangements for any services that may be available if you homeschool?

[Elizabeth 2]

Also, does he have to be in first grade?  It's not uncommon here for boys to "red shirt" and wait until your son's age to start kindergarten.  

 

Another thought, kiddos who have ADHD don't do well with life transitions.  The first week of ever going to school is not going to go well for such children. Can you give it more time, like six weeks?  That's how long we know we have had to ask teachers before they evaluate what really is and isn't working. Often what they think is a problem is really a matter of not knowing and needing to learn.  You said he is a slow learner, so classroom management techniques could be learned slowly too. 

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree, I would see about getting evaluations.  He is still in school so theoretically the school would do at least rudimentary evals for free.  Honestly, though, since you may be dealing with multiple issues it might make more sense to go private if you can afford it.  Getting a more thorough picture could help you understand whether he is truly ADHD/dyslexic/has low working memory/etc.  There could be a whole host of reasons why he is struggling.  Different issues may need different approaches.  Also, he may have underlying strengths that are not being tapped because the issues are masking his strengths and his strengths are masking the issues.  It makes it hard for a layman to tweak out.

 

TBH, with regards to the actual material used, if he truly is dyslexic I would look at something more broken down, like Barton.  You might wait to attempt to start an OG based reading program until you had addressed ways to help him focus, though.  Teaching reading to a dyslexic is tiring for their brains.  It takes effort.  If they are having serious focus issues, too, no matter what program you use it could be challenging.  

 

For the ADHD, the best results for many appear to be starting a child with behavior help, such as Cognitive Behavior Therapy with a qualified psychologist or therapist before attempting medication (which may or may not be recommended and you may or may not have interest in).  

 

As for math, maybe Math U See?  Or use the Ronit Bird books and e-books?  I love CLE but I think it might go too quickly at his age.  Later on, maybe 2nd grade, if he has a really solid foundation CLE might be great (just go at his pace and work together when introducing new material).

[PeterPan]

This is ps or private?  You have the legal right to evals through the ps, no matter how you school, and I would request those IMMEDIATELY.  Like today is Thursday, so when you pick him up today or take him tomorrow, take a note to the secretary at the desk.  On it you put that you suspect learning disabilities and ADHD and that you request they do evals to determine whether he needs an IEP.  

 

If you wait and do NOT do that, you either have to wait for THEM to file the request for evals (after a grading period, later) or pay privately.  And while you can do those evals privately, you might want to start now with the school.  They're going to take time.  You might want the info they give you so you can pair it with whatever you do privately.  This might be an approach best handled as a team, with a multi-factorered eval.

 

Extreme ADHD can = other things beyond ADHD.  Has that been considered? And the reason it matters is because once you say something beyond ADHD, the school isn't going to be successful evaling.  They can be helpful, but you're going to want private evals to address the developmental delay, slow pace, extremeness of what's going on more careful.

 

I think no matter what you're asking for OT and psych evals.  I missed the speech, but if that is going on then that too.  

 

But I'm just rolling with the level of your burnout.  That, to me, is what ups it and why I'd be pursuing evals.  If it was just some extra energy and a little behind, no biggee.  But with the bigger picture and that burnout, I'd want evals.  And when I was in that position, where my ds was turning 6 and we knew SOMETHING was going, I told my dh flat up, I CANNOT TEACH THIS CHILD WITHOUT EVALS.  So I'm saying, if at all possible, that's your line.  Don't try to teach this without evals.  

[Ariston]

After my experience with my son who was very similar at that age, I would not mess around with those other programs and go straight to Barton. Completely transformed my son. Expensive, but worth it and high resale value.

 

For marh I don't have a lot of advice. My son is 12 and still to this day the only way we get through math is by me sitting with him and keeping hm focused. I also have him do xtramath and dreambox everyday just to give us a break, because it's the only math he can do independently.

[PeterPan]

In answer to your actual question, no I wouldn't use any of those things.  My ds is what you're listing (speech problems, SLDs in reading, writing, and math, ADHD+ ASD= EXTREME ADHD), and for him those things wouldn't work.  He works in a very kinesthetic, hands-on way with me, and he does more worksheety, interactive kinds of things with his ABA tutor.  But really, his major learning occurs through moments of engaged doing.  It's what it means to be so very ADHD.  

 

And yes, everything with him has been age minus 2.  It's crazy.  He's sort of all over the place, with crazy highs and lows.  This week he did equivalent fractions with me, but he still hasn't figured out that all the ones are the same in the columns and the tens the same in the rows on a 100 chart.  ;)  So we were playing a Ronit Bird game where you cover the numbers (we used pennies) and roll dice to make combinations to score the pennies.  This was challenging for him!  

 

With my ds, I use Ronit Bird math and Barton for reading.  Both are excellent.  I have the tutor using worksheets for math from TCR (Teacher Created Resources) and they're good.  We use the Barton app for spelling because the handwriting was bogging him down.  Because the self-regulation is so hard, my ds benefits from his work with a tutor to work on how to handle his emotions, how to handle his energy, the social thinking of WHY we stay together, WHY we're working here at the table, etc.  Social Thinking instruction has been HUGE for my ds.  You're saying he's extreme and burning you out, and that has been the #1 thing for getting our lives more workable.  We brought in a behaviorist and she works with him.  The evidence right now is that for ADHD, behavioral intervention FIRST gets better results than meds alone or even meds first.  It's a frontline, valuable intervention to consider, especially if you're bringing him home.

[PeterPan]

The environments that had worked for my dd over the years were not working for my ds.  He requires a LOT more structure.  He now has a dedicated office, with little spaces, nooks, clear plan for each space,e tc.  It's working fabulous and is very CALMING.  It helps with a lot of that behavioral stuff and it's part of that complete package (behaviorist plus structure plus...).

[Crimson Wife]

My DS has ADHD and in the primary grades he did well with Right Start Math, AAS (AAR wasn't available then), HWOT, and Evan-Moor "Take it to Your Seat _____ Centers". I kept lessons very short at only 10-15 minutes at a time and hands-on as much as possible. Later on he was able to transition to more pencil-and-paper work.

[PeterPan]

My DS has ADHD and in the primary grades he did well with Right Start Math, AAS (AAR wasn't available then), HWOT, and Evan-Moor "Take it to Your Seat _____ Centers". I kept lessons very short at only 10-15 minutes at a time and hands-on as much as possible. Later on he was able to transition to more pencil-and-paper work.

 

My dd, only ADHD, no SLDs, nothing extra, was like this.  We used SWR (AAS wasn't out, we did that later after VT), RightStart math (later BJU), and the VP history.  

[Guest]

Thank you all.  I really appreciate all your advice, and I am considering it.  He is great when working one on one with me, and understands everything.  I think he just wasn't ready to learn a year ago.  This year he is ready.   I think public school isn't a good fit just because he is so hyper and easily distracted, and he can't focus unless he gets one on one teaching.

 

I think if I brought him home he would continue to learn well.  We have also made diet changes, use essential oils, and other supplements that are helping over time.  When he was younger he did have some ASD traits.  He has an older half brother and half sister that were diagnosed with autism years ago.  With diets/interventions we are just left with ADHD.

 

Im not sure keeping him in school just for evals would be beneficial to us.  I just feel he is going to get more and more behind in school.  I did get burned out this past year, but it was from teaching five children.  Two of them are at the local public High School this year.  One of them is my step daughter that has autism.  I did finally reach the point that I couldn't help her anymore, and she needed to go. 

 

I have enjoyed the last week though.  My stress was down until the last couple days when it was obvious that he was struggling.  I worry if I take him out I will get super burned out again, and regret it.  I really don't want to go back to feeling like that again.  I am just so worried he is going to fail in school.  His math worksheets come home, and it looks like he isn't understanding at all.  It is a common core spin off of Singapore (engage NY) I think.  We started with Singapore 1a before I sent him, and he was understanding.  He just doesn't do well focusing in a classroom though.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Guest

[PeterPan]

Write the request for evals, take it in tomorrow, and pull him as soon as the law allows.  You don't have to leave him enrolled to have the ps eval.  

 

My ds' ASD has become more obvious with time.  Like it was obvious, but it's becoming MORE obvious.  I think they say the average age for an aspergers diagnosis was like 9 or 10, I forget.  It's just more subtle.  It sounds like you've done a lot really well.  Definitely keep going with your gut on this.  My ds does better with 1:1, yes.  We now use ABA tutors and me, a combination.  If you could find a provider with that kind of service, it might be something where you could *blend* who does the 1:1 to help with the burnout.  That's why I'm doing it.  They use my stuff, what I pick, do it the way I say, and are accountable to me.  It's what I would do if I were Wonder Woman.  I'm not, so I bring in help.  It's really spectacular for us so far.

[Storygirl]

I understand the burn out. There is a reason my kids are in school now.

 

But I also agree with those who suggest getting evaluations. There is a benefit to leaving him in school while you have the evaluations, because many times the doctors want a teacher to fill out a form. The idea is finding out whether the behaviors/issues are occurring in more than one environment. Unless you are connected to a co-op or other learning environment where there will be a teacher to fill out forms for you, it will be harder to get that multi-point of view when you are homeschooling. If his teachers are concerned, I'd take advantage of that and get their viewpoint in writing and their opinion registered on some evaluation forms before you pull him out.

 

I would go ahead and get the ADHD diagnosis, even if you don't intend to medicate. Having an official diagnosis may be really helpful in later years, in case you decide to re-enroll him in school or apply for accommodations for standardized testing like the SAT. It's good to have a paper trail.

 

One parent at my daughter's private school says that she could not get the public school to evaluate her son or provide accommodations, despite obvious executive function issues (forgetful, will do assignments but get F's for not turning them in, etc.), because she did not have a diagnosis from a doctor. They really have had a terrible time.

 

I'd avoid that possible future if you can, and go ahead and get the diagnosis. Leave that door open for future help.

[Storygirl]

Also, I know it is hard to think of leaving him in school, thinking that he is not learning. But the short-term issues may be worth enduring, in order to get long-term help (the evaluation paper trail). And he is so young. A semester or even a year of less-than-ideal schooling at his age can be caught up. Perhaps you could afterschool or do some school on weekends (I realize this is not possible for everyone; it would have been hard for my kids).

[PeterPan]

He might be learning things you aren't anticipating.  Now they could be bad, like picking your nose, lol, but they could be good, like listening to the teacher, how to stand in line, how to get along with others, etc.  He's probably getting some natural feedback on his behaviors, like kids being frustrated with him if he does such and such or the teacher helping him notice how his behaviors affect others.  

 

I'm just saying it might not be a TOTAL loss.  I put my ds in an art camp this summer that, on the surface, was a total loss.  I thought he'd get to do art and have this creative experience.  Instead he scrawled!  But he learned that when he's good girls like sitting beside him in circle time.  :D  Seriously, that's a good thing!  And he learned that when there are girls around he can tone it down, tone down his behavior, and not be so rough because you don't want to hurt people.  There was a lot of that modulating, noticing.  It was actually super HARD for him!  He left each day exhausted and stimming, to the point where it was like wow are we sure?  Well not that bad.  But it really was hard for him just to go in, be appropriate, slow it down, tone it down.

 

So I just wouldn't assume NOTHING good is happening.  I'll bet good stuff IS happening, even if it's conceptual stuff like the value of order, how to use a schedule, how to do independent work, how to use stations, how to self-monitor, how to notice what your peers are doing, etc.  It could be good stuff!  :)

[Crimson Wife]

  His math worksheets come home, and it looks like he isn't understanding at all.  It is a common core spin off of Singapore (engage NY) I think.  We started with Singapore 1a before I sent him, and he was understanding.  He just doesn't do well focusing in a classroom though.

 

Don't even get me started on engageNY. My daughter's school uses that and it is HORRIBLE. It's like the designers saw Singapore Math but didn't really understand it so they put together something that is superficially similar but makes ZERO sense. I figure that at some point I'm going to need to start "afterschooling" with Right Start but right now I'm focusing on the auditory rehab, language development, and reading.

[Ottakee]

Late coming in here.

 

For reading I really like I See Sam www.iseesam.com or www.3rsplus.com.

 

As to the ADHD , I agree with evals. We delayed evals until my daughter was 7. She was really struggling. We did start meds and my daughter gained 2 years of academics in less than 6 months. She could finally focus enough to learn.