Sentence diagramming in other languages?

[Rosie_0801]

Does it work?

[2_girls_mommy]

We do it in Latin with the Form series all the time. We will do a sentence in Latin, then the translation in English. I think it helps them sort the grammar out for both languages better.

[EKS]

We diagrammed sentences in Latin as well.  Of course they were simple sentences, but it worked well.

[Bluegoat]

I think it would be a maybe.  Diagramming was designed specifically for English, so you might have to revise some rules for other languages and maybe even the formatting.

 

It would probably be better to see if there was a version that was created just for the language, or you might use the methods linguists use though I don't know how hard that is to learn.

 

You could also just parse the sentences, which was more common in British schools, diagramming seems to have been a mainly American fad.

[Bluegoat]

Also - it strikes me that Latin might be the language that would be the easiest fit, since around the same period where diagramming was invented was when there were attempts to systematize English language rules according to the rules of Latin.

[StartingOver]

We have diagrammed quite a bit in Latin. I adore it.

 

http://www.german-latin-english.com/diagrams.htm

[Rosie_0801]

I'm wondering if it would work in Arabic. I'm thinking it would help us learn what's going on with the unfamiliar word order. Or maybe it's just the readers we are using are kind of dodgy, lol. With one sentence, we couldn't figure out if Adam was sharing the pear with the girl or if he'd pinched it off her.  :laugh:

[Guest]

It might help!  I wouldn't go so far as to do anything super formal, but just making note of the word order before you read the sentence so you know what the subject/object/etc is.

 

My Arabic professor told us that she had read a certain verse in the Qur'an as "God is afraid of the knowledgeable" for the longest time until she sat down and actually figured out that the placement of God in the sentence meant He was not the subject (or something like that), so the verse was actually "The knowledgeable are afraid of God."  :)

[Rosie_0801]

I want FLL and WWE in Arabic. 
 

I told the lady in the Muslim bookshop this yesterday. (They also have a publishing company.) She looked a bit intimidated, but said she'd look them up. :lol:

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

It might help!  I wouldn't go so far as to do anything super formal, but just making note of the word order before you read the sentence so you know what the subject/object/etc is.

 

My Arabic professor told us that she had read a certain verse in the Qur'an as "God is afraid of the knowledgeable" for the longest time until she sat down and actually figured out that the placement of God in the sentence meant He was not the subject (or something like that), so the verse was actually "The knowledgeable are afraid of God."  :)

 

The commutative law does not apply to grammar. :rofl:

[Loesje22000]

We don't diagram in Dutch (except in diagrams as in Math).

It took a while before I understood what 'diagramming' on the boards meant

The diagrams we saw in American textbooks integrates two parts of grammar, which are seperately taught in Dutch.

We also split up the group of pronouns when we are working on 'woordbenoeming'.

When we do 'zinsontleding' we focus on subject, object, direct-object etc.

[Rosie_0801]

We don't diagram in Dutch (except in diagrams as in Math).

It took a while before I understood what 'diagramming' on the boards meant

The diagrams we saw in American textbooks integrates two parts of grammar, which are seperately taught in Dutch.

We also split up the group of pronouns when we are working on 'woordbenoeming'.

When we do 'zinsontleding' we focus on subject, object, direct-object etc.

 

Yeah, that's partly why I'm wondering- I know not all languages divide the parts of speech the way we do.

 

What do you do? Parse the sentence? I guess I imagine most languages would need something to *do* with the grammatical knowledge since most people have to apply knowledge in some way to process or remember it. I've never seen MCT grammar but I think they do something other than diagramming or just parsing.

[Loesje22000]

Yeah, that's partly why I'm wondering- I know not all languages divide the parts of speech the way we do.

 

What do you do? Parse the sentence? I guess I imagine most languages would need something to *do* with the grammatical knowledge since most people have to apply knowledge in some way to process or remember it. I've never seen MCT grammar but I think they do something other than diagramming or just parsing.

 

Parsing the Sentence and Parts of Speech is that the same in English?

 

So 'Woordbenoeming' looks like:

 

I give the book to you:

 

I = personal pronoun

give = verb

the = article

book = noun

to = preposition

you = personal pronoun

 

++++++

 

'Zinsontleding' looks like:

 

I / give / the book / to you

 

I = subject

give = verbal saying? (werkwoordelijk gezegde)

the book = direct object

to you = indirect object

 

Most students develop a system of abbreviations they can write above the parts they are labeling.

These are easy simple sentences.

But we also use it at complex sentences.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

There are resrouces for diagramming in German and Latin that I've seen.

 

It would be tricky for French without some adaptations.  A handful of adjectives change meaning based on if they are placed before or after the noun.  

 

Ancien ami means former friend, whereas ami ancien means old (aged) friend.  In a standard English style diagram, you can't really indicate placement... however, it would be easy to modify to make diagrams work for French by making a few "house rules" to deal with this relatively rare adjective problem.  

 

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

Parsing the Sentence and Parts of Speech is that the same in English?

 

So 'Woordbenoeming' looks like:

 

I give the book to you:

 

I = personal pronoun

give = verb

the = article

book = noun

to = preposition

you = personal pronoun

 

++++++

 

'Zinsontleding' looks like:

 

I / give / the book / to you

 

I = subject

give = verbal saying? (werkwoordelijk gezegde)

the book = direct object

to you = indirect object

 

Most students develop a system of abbreviations they can write above the parts they are labeling.

These are easy simple sentences.

But we also use it at complex sentences.

 

I think your Woordbenoeming is learning the parts of speech, and the bolded is what we'd call parsing. I'm not sure about your Zinsontleding, but it is a cool looking word. There aren't nearly enough words beginning with Z in the English language...

[Loesje22000]

I think your Woordbenoeming is learning the parts of speech, and the bolded is what we'd call parsing. I'm not sure about your Zinsontleding, but it is a cool looking word. There aren't nearly enough words beginning with Z in the English language...

 

I think that 'Zinsontleding' is comparable to parsing a sentence.

We have many words with Z, but not with a Y :)

[Bluegoat]

Yeah, that's partly why I'm wondering- I know not all languages divide the parts of speech the way we do.

 

What do you do? Parse the sentence? I guess I imagine most languages would need something to *do* with the grammatical knowledge since most people have to apply knowledge in some way to process or remember it. I've never seen MCT grammar but I think they do something other than diagramming or just parsing.

 

I'd parse them, myself.  When I did latin and Greek at school, most of my teachers were European, so they did it that way even for English, they didn't diagram.  I think parsing can be pretty flexible.  Sometimes we just divided up the sentences with slashes, underlined things or wrote parts of speech above, or circled things and tied them together with lines.  Pretty messy but it did the trick, and we would work through tricky passages that way.

[Rosie_0801]

I'd parse them, myself.  When I did latin and Greek at school, most of my teachers were European, so they did it that way even for English, they didn't diagram.  I think parsing can be pretty flexible.  Sometimes we just divided up the sentences with slashes, underlined things or wrote parts of speech above, or circled things and tied them together with lines.  Pretty messy but it did the trick, and we would work through tricky passages that way.

 

Yeah, I know we could just parse (theoretically, heh.) Dd is more visual, is all, so diagramming works better for her. And it is tidier. With a kid who has dysgraphia, parsing a three word sentence looks like a hot mess. :p

[luuknam]

Parsing the Sentence and Parts of Speech is that the same in English?

 

So 'Woordbenoeming' looks like:

 

I give the book to you:

 

I = personal pronoun

give = verb

the = article

book = noun

to = preposition

you = personal pronoun

 

++++++

 

'Zinsontleding' looks like:

 

I / give / the book / to you

 

I = subject

give = verbal saying? (werkwoordelijk gezegde)

the book = direct object

to you = indirect object

 

Most students develop a system of abbreviations they can write above the parts they are labeling.

These are easy simple sentences.

But we also use it at complex sentences.

 

I don't remember which of those I was taught first - probably the parts of speech. We were taught to underline each part with a different color, e.g. nouns with red, verbs with green, etc. Unfortunately, then we were taught subjects and objects and stuff like that soon thereafter, and told to underline those with colored pencils as well, using mostly the same colors. It got very confusing and I ended up underlining some things with more than one color because a noun can also be an object etc (I was not supposed to do that, but like I said, quite confusing). We did not label parts at all - just underlined them in different colors. I read a book on diagramming recently, and did the first few pages in a workbook, and I think you probably could diagram Dutch, though I'm not sure why you'd want to (nor why you'd want to diagram English, for that matter).

 

I think your Woordbenoeming is learning the parts of speech, and the bolded is what we'd call parsing. I'm not sure about your Zinsontleding, but it is a cool looking word. There aren't nearly enough words beginning with Z in the English language...

 

I haven't heard of woordbenoeming before (but obviously did the underlining parts of speech thing), but it translates as "word-naming". Zinsontleding translates as "sentence analysis" (or "sentence dissection", I think).

Edited August 28, 2016 by luuknam

[Loesje22000]

I don't remember which of those I was taught first - probably the parts of speech. We were taught to underline each part with a different color, e.g. nouns with red, verbs with green, etc. Unfortunately, then we were taught subjects and objects and stuff like that soon thereafter, and told to underline those with colored pencils as well, using mostly the same colors. It got very confusing and I ended up underlining some things with more than one color because a noun can also be an object etc (I was not supposed to do that, but like I said, quite confusing). We did not label parts at all - just underlined them in different colors. I read a book on diagramming recently, and did the first few pages in a workbook, and I think you probably could diagram Dutch, though I'm not sure why you'd want to (nor why you'd want to diagram English, for that matter).

 

 

I haven't heard of woordbenoeming before (but obviously did the underlining parts of speech thing), but it translates as "word-naming". Zinsontleding translates as "sentence analysis" (or "sentence dissection", I think).

 

Fun to read you learned the color coding system too!

That's the way I learned in Elementary School :)

We moved during Middle School and I had to transit to the abbreviation system.

 

Maybe you are more familiair with 'redekundig ontleden' en 'taalkundig ontleden' instead of woordbenoeming and zinsontleding?

[luuknam]

Fun to read you learned the color coding system too!

That's the way I learned in Elementary School :)

We moved during Middle School and I had to transit to the abbreviation system.

 

Maybe you are more familiair with 'redekundig ontleden' en 'taalkundig ontleden' instead of woordbenoeming and zinsontleding?

 

Maybe. I do my best to repress all memories of grammar. :)

[regentrude]

It would probably work in German, but is not a technique I ever encountered growing up and going to school there.

We did not use it for any of our foreign language studies either.

[Mabelen]

We do something like this in Spanish. There are two types: análisis morfológico and análisis sintáctico. In the first type you focus on the word classification. Is it a verb, a noun, an article etc? What kind (in detail)? The second type focuses on the function of the words or groups of words and sentence structure.

 

I don't have time now but if you search those terms you will see examples of both kinds,